Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!nic.umass.edu!titan.ucs.umass.edu!not-for-mail From: cyndal@titan.ucs.umass.edu (MICHELE M STEVENS) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: While I have a few moments... :) Date: 1 Mar 1993 15:23:38 -0500 Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst Lines: 111 Sender: cyndal@titan.ucs.umass.edu Distribution: na,europe,australia Expires: +14 days Message-ID: <1mtrcaINNoi8@titan.ucs.umass.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu Hmm....cattle and other animal mutilations? Well, there must not have been too many of them in the southern US because I haven't heard even a whisper of it until just now reading the newsgroup. Nor have I heard a thing from Colorado(or wherever else this is happening). Anyone have pieces of articles from *reputable* papers(ie: NOT The Sun/Globe/ Examiner/Weekly World News/other trash) relating to any of this? I'd be likely to think that the Boston channels we get here would have *something* to say about it on TV if there were such numbers of this going on. The John_-_Winston pics....well, I haven't got a GIF-viewer, and the stuff someone posted here turned out looking like some kind of programmer's nightmare. :) I dutifully printed it out tho, taped it to a door, and kept stepping back from it.....even went so far as to squint my eyes, turn my head sideways, and still it looked like a nightmare. I *hope* this isn't what the John_-_Winston we all have been wondering about looks like. I even tried it printed out on standard computer paper(reversed, of course-those lines would have just made things worse) and still nothing. The lesser- enlarged of the two *did* seem to have some sort of features to it(the tie came out actually pretty well! *laugh*). All I could make out of that one, tho, seemed to me to look like the fellow that plays "Mr. Humphries" on a BBC-TV show PBS carries here called "Are You Being Served?" (Incidentally, that program is HILARIOUS. DO watch it if you like Python-esque type humor and double-entendres. *GRIN*) Oh well. So much for satisfying curiosities. :) However, I will take up Greg Larson's suggestion to ask: So, John_-_Winston.....what *DO* you do(besides scan those terrible trash papers)? I could probably come up with more believable stuff that what appears in some of those. Ooh, the one story I saw in one of them that gave me a huge laugh was: "Man's dog speaks-says he's the Anti-Christ". *chuckle* At that, I'd ring up the state hospital, make a reservation for myself, then tell the "Anti-Christ" dog to go back where he belonged-HELL. Then I'd have myself a cool spell in a nice padded room for awhile. So do tell us curious types, what is it you *do*, John? :) Have you all seen the "MARK OF THE BEA$T" postings plastered all over various newsgroups? Ooooh.....definitely a paranoid person. Ring up Bellvue for that one. Yo Robert.....did you know that's a long form of "Bob"? Some friends got a good laugh pondering whether this guy was "Bob" from "Twin Peaks". Certainly isn't a sane sort. Barcodes, Mr. McElwaine, are *not* encoded with '666' all over the place. What they do is make your life easier so that when you go to the market, the cashier (in most places now) can just pass the items over a scanner. This is FAR less time- consuming than the old key-entered machines. Also, the first 5 digits refer to the manufacturer. The remaining 5 digits are the product id #. This makes ordering items easier so that your favorite brand of breakfast cereal, etc. doesn't run out so soon. It's far easier to order items by using the little hand-held computer and scanning the bar-codes, then download that to the shipping offices' computers than to write everything down and CALL (or fax) your orders in. I work in retail, so I know. I guess that means Mr. McElwaine won't be going to the market anymore, unless what he buys comes in no packaging whatsoever. :) And to make you a little less paranoid, pay with cash. Then we don't know you from Mr. Smith or John Doe. :) Ahh....life. Always a laugh somewhere...even if you *aren't* looking for it. :) On a more serious topic(if I can stop giggling at the BEA$T stuff long enough), I've always been one who *wanted* to meet an alien(and no, not an "illegal alien"). I treat the subject with respect. There's a lot we don't know and our early history(look at cave drawings/paintings too) has evidence of "something" or "someone" definitely not of that era hopping about visiting various cultures. Many earth cultures have similar "god"-type stories, or "how the world came to be" stories. Given the lack of easy communications at the times these cultures were being formed, this suggests a possibility that we were visited by "something(s)" or "someone(s)" many years ago, and it's very likely we still are being visited. I myself was heavily into Astronomy before entering college, and did at one point see "something" that resembled neither an astronomical phenomenon, nor a 'weather balloon' nor 'a flock of geese' nor an airplane. It was just something bright that appeared in the sky that changed colors from a light violet-blue to orange to red to green and dipped down over a hill about 1/2 mile from me.....then 10 minutes later came back up and whizzed off up into the atmosphere. I couldn't make out a shape, altho the light was a bit rounded(not perfectly tho). I heard no sound-PERIOD. The time was early spring, when the "peepers"(little frogs) are usually croaking up a storm with their mating going on, and the crickets are usually making their noises too. But when that thing appeared, dead silence. And I know I made no sounds to cause everything to be quiet. And it was only barely 7pm or so in the evening. I heard no animal noises, no insect noises, nothing. Just a light breeze every so often which had been going on throughout the early evening. However, when the light left, it no sooner got more than maybe a half-mile up and then the sounds of nature returned. Almost like someone had pressed a 'pause' button, and then resumed playing something. I wasn't afraid, just awe-struck. I've never seen such a thing since either. What a shame, too. I can usually sense in humans if someone is violent by nature or not, so I could most likely tell right off if I was in any sort of danger. I certainly wasn't that night. The funny thing about the whole experience is that I was attempting to view Vega and Sirius through my 4" reflector when this all happened. I thought I had a lightning bug divebomb the lens and get stuck there, but I looked, and the lens was clean. And the light just moved around and changed from the light violet-blue to orange as I tried to view it through my telescope. It was after I stepped back to get a naked-eye look that it came down over the hill. Naturally, not being the type that frightens easily, curiosity compelled me to go have a look. I guess I didn't walk that half-mile quick enough, as 10 minutes later it was off. Oh well. :) All I can say is that ever since, I've kept my eyes open. I read voraciously on the subject of UFO's, discount the 'slammers' of it, and can usually sift out the junk from the more reliable stuff. Someone here once suggested going somewhere, and thinking(or saying) stuff about wanting some alien race to show themselves, and a star or something would light up. I got a good laugh, and an even better one when I tried it one night I was out star-gazing and the thought came back to me. You guessed right if you guessed "Nothing happened." :) I've never 'done drugs'(unless you count an occasional beer or glass of wine as 'doing drugs'), don't smoke anything(dealing with second-hand smoke is bad enough with asthma, so I'm not likely to purposely put myself through hell. Besides, people who smoke smell TERRIBLE!), and haven't ever had any psychiatric problems. So I'm as sane as they get. :) Who knows what I saw. I'd say at this point that someone had themselves a little fun toying about while I was star- gazing. :) I don't mind. Just makes me wish they'd stayed around a few minutes more. :) Michele Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14267 alt.alien.visitors:14000 sci.skeptic:40285 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.cs.jhu.edu!jyusenkyou!arromdee From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) Subject: Re: What Would A Space Person Think Of Earth. Message-ID: <1993Mar5.170725.4648@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system) Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept. References: <75758@cup.portal.com> <9052.29366@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Mar5.061756.20012@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 17:07:25 GMT Lines: 13 In article <1993Mar5.061756.20012@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >The last prominent group that called people of the wrong race an >infection was in Germany in 1944. This was a typo. (No need to write in telling me WWII ended in 1945.) -- "On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey! On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole that she made from Leftover Turkey. [days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ... -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait) Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple!goofy!mumbo.apple.com!gallant.apple.com!sandvik-kent.apple.com!user From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Weapon On Earth? Message-ID: Date: 5 Mar 93 07:25:43 GMT References: <1993Feb20.163524.26508@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@gallant.apple.com Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Ministry of Silly Hacks Lines: 13 In article <1993Feb20.163524.26508@ousrvr.oulu.fi>, yaz@phoenix.oulu.fi (Tuomas Kalle Kaikkonen) wrote: > Last thing I want to say to you: Alien VISITORS, by definition of those words, > do not want to stay here on Earth; they have no need to colonize it, > and therefore no need to wipe out previous life forms (us). The Gerrold "Chtorr" SF book series deals with this interesting idea. Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND Private activities on the Net, opinions are not Apple's, they are mine. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 18:06:22 GMT References: <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 32 In article kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >> Without having any verifiable facts, or even hard evidence, you >> have no basis to guess WHAT the "chances" are about this stuff! >> >Right. You can neither prove it, nor disprove it. As I've pointed out many times here, the burden of proof is on the person making the *positive* assertion -- take a course in logic, or at least one in debating technique. > But with all the media attention going on I forsee >a time when things come out in the open. UFO's have been receiving lots of media attention for over 40 years. You can "forsee" anything you like but you have presented no evidence for anything. >Just why _do_ they guard Groom Lake and Tonapah with burly guards with >authorization to use prejudgicial deadly force...? They keep saying >that there is nothing there, right? If there's nothing going on, >why is it the most heavily secured place in the nation? Who knows? It couldn't be military secrets! After all who ever heard of the military having any secrets? ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 18:11:13 GMT References: <1993Mar4.183647.1220@netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 27 In article artlopez@dcl-nxt32.cso.uiuc.edu (Arturo E Lopez) writes: >> I don't know about "true" or valid, but I remember reading a book that >> had photos of the geode, and x-rays showing the interior. And as I >recall, >> it looked like a spark plug. But I do not remember the name of the book. >> >> >---peter > > > > I also heard about this 500,000 year old rock. There is this show >called "In Search Of" on cable tv on the channel A&E and it is hosted by >Leonard Nimoy. One of the shows talked about the possibility of aliens >visiting Earth thousands of years ago. I think they said some people >(maybe they were geologists) who were searching for Indian artifacts found >an unusual looking stone somewhere in Death Valley in California. Then I >think they sawed the stone in half and some type of solid metallic object >cylinder was embedded along the length of the stone. Yeah, yeah, blah, blah. And where is this geode with the metal cylinder in it now? Nobody knows? Gosh, what a surprise. ---peter Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14269 alt.alien.visitors:14004 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Magnetic field detector. Message-ID: <9063.25212@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 5 Mar 93 18:08:49 GMT References: <74832@cup.portal.com> <9003.8103@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1lrsfkINNr8u@werple.apana.org.au> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 31 In article <1lrsfkINNr8u@werple.apana.org.au> zik@zikzak.apana.org.au (Michael Saleeba [Zik]) writes: [various BS deleted to save space] > OK!!! So SUE ME!!! I used an acronym for a term that is not defined by that acronym! I never pretended to be an engineer....Geeeesh! In many stores across AMERICA you can find "electromagnetic field detectors"......END OF LINE. DONT BELIEVE IT? GO OUT AND BUY ONE! GOOD NIGHT IRENE! > >+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ >| -|- Zik -|- | "Smart is when you believe only half | >| zik@zikzak.apana.org.au | of what you hear. Brilliant is when | >| Michael Saleeba | you know which half to believe." - ? | >+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ Len *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7076 alt.alien.visitors:14005 alt.folklore.urban:65764 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!titan.ucs.umass.edu!not-for-mail From: eggo@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Round Waffle) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.folklore.urban Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Date: 5 Mar 1993 13:21:08 -0500 Organization: The Durex Blender Corporation Lines: 10 Message-ID: <1n85mkINNclm@titan.ucs.umass.edu> References: <1993Mar1.125604@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov> <76930@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu In article <76930@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: I was Jewish about many lifetimes ago. >John Winston I laughed. I cried. It was better than Bigfootf. -- +- eggo@titan.ucc.umass.edu --><-- Eat Some Paste -+ +- Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, -+ +- Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -+ +----------------- The Durex Blender Corporation -----------------+ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14270 alt.alien.visitors:14006 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs on Madison Ave. Message-ID: <1993Mar5.185521.29449@netcom.com> Date: 5 Mar 93 18:55:21 GMT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <76897@cup.portal.com> Organization: BeHereNow Lines: 23 In article <76897@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Extraterrestrials on Madison Avenue. >shadows. The headline reads, "Technology so advanced it will help answer >some big questions." What does Amoco know that we don't? > Somebody out there in the advertising industry has obviously decided that >the time has come to prepare America for the coming arrival of our >interstellar neighbors. Whoever is responsible should be proud, because the >timing is perfect as we near the "Great Display" that our government is >obviojusly aware of. When the E.T.s finally arrive from distant galaxies en >masse, the government will tell us, "We told you so, haven't you been >watching t.v.?" (Alex Lakewood, Advertising & P.R.) >JW Sometimes the space, spiritual people inspire us to do certain things and >we think we just had an inspiration. >Source of Information: UNICUS The magazine for earthbound extraterrestrials. Thanks John, one of your best posts in weeks. I think your doing a great job informing us of the "Awareness Program". Jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <1993Mar5.190402.668@netcom.com> Date: 5 Mar 93 19:04:02 GMT References: <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow Lines: 36 >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>> Bob Lazar has driven his friends out to see exactly >>>what he said was their, so there are many witnesses. >> >> . . . who happen to be friends of Lazar's. Why didn't Lazar >> take some reporters with decent video equipment out there? So why don't you just be an argumentative Ass? Obviously it didn't come up at the time, but reporters have been out there with video equipment, geek... I just got thru telling you that ABC had ALL KINDS OF FOOTAGE, including artist renderings of Aroura, and some relevant specs. NO, AROURA is not an anit-gravity machine. That much is KNOWN. they even had reports that the new plane was used in Desert Storm. ABC stated in no uncertain terms, this thing you see flying around is NOT, NOT< NOT Aroura. >>> They things are not bound by G-forces and normal gravity. >> >> So far then, AS USUAL WITH UFO REPORTS, it comes down to FOAF >> and other word-of-mouth stories. No actual evidence so we >> can decide for ourselves about whether they are bound by >> "normal" gravity. >> NO, there is much video footage of the sightings, and many eyewitnesses. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And Bob's latest interview sheds a great deal more light on the subject that indicates he is telling the truth. HAVE YOU READ IT? I doubt it, by the way you mindlessly spout... Jeff- PS, see M. Lindemann, Six Viewpoints; UFO's Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!taj.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@taj.cs.unlv.edu Subject: RE: UFOs on Madison Ave. Message-ID: <1993Mar5.185911.19956@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Fri, 5 Mar 93 18:59:11 GMT Lines: 6 The same is here in Las Vegas too... The Continental has a UFO Jackpot. The light board sports an animated alien in a UFO. Shows how business loves to commercialize anything they can find... ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!jws134 Organization: Penn State University Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 14:23:54 EST From: JOKER Message-ID: <93064.142354JWS134@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Humans Interesting? References: <1993Mar3.012106.7244@unlv.edu> <1993Mar3.204718.25859@netcom.com> Lines: 23 In article <1993Mar3.204718.25859@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) says: > >In article <1993Mar3.012106.7244@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu >writes: > >> I'll go first... Assume we evolved on this planet >>from vegetarian primates to today's human or huwoman. > >Why the vegetarian assumption? And which species is "huwoman"? Are >they anything like humans? I am a human that has meet many many huwomen, and I can safely say that they are NOTHING like us. I can't even begin to understand them, even after all these years. - Jimmy I. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ---------------- |\ / | : Tip for today: Never moon a werewolf. \__| \/_____|___ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sgi!fido!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Something in sky in SF Bay Area!? Message-ID: <1993Mar4.221338.25508@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1993 22:13:38 GMT Lines: 22 Hello all, Heard a short blurb on the local news (ch5 1000pm news) last night about a spectacular light show in the sky @ 7:15pm 3/3/93. The weatherman was talking about it & saying that no meteor showers where anticipated. Then of course the anchor clowns start in with the flying Elvis bit or probably spacejunk......They'll never grow up. Lord help us if anything serious happens, I wonder if anyone could take them seriously? Only time will tell. I wonder if NASA tracked this object.....Any NASA reps out there want to comment? If it was space junk, I for one would like to know why it wasn't announced that it was comming down. Did anyone see this personally? I was working unfortunatly;-( -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sgi!fido!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Denver flap ? Message-ID: <1993Mar4.220217.24335@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1993Feb24.155537.21778@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1993 22:02:17 GMT Lines: 18 Tom R : >>So, I hear (on the ham radio) that there's a bit of a flap going on in >>Denver... Something to do with the Mcdonnell-Douglas plant there...? Anyone in >>Colorado heard any news about this? Well? Anyone in the mile high state or anywhere else for that matter hear about this? Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14272 alt.alien.visitors:14012 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Tesla Message-ID: <9068.25179@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 5 Mar 93 21:40:45 GMT References: <9009.12576@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 57 In article battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >In article <9009.12576@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>, >lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes... >>In article >>rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes) writes: >>>In article >>>stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) writes: >>> >>>>Regarding good ol' Tesla: >>>> >>>>I've said it once before, and I'll say it here again: he was a genius >>>>AND a fruitcake. >>> >>>He's a dessert topping! >>> >>>-- >>>- Rich "mcmxciibo" Holmes >>>"Grown men, he told himself, in flat contradiction of centuries of >>>accumulated evidence about the way grown men behave, do not behave >>>like this." -- Douglas Adams >> >>I sure in hell hope you "kids" are majoaring in basket weaving >>and NOT science...I shudder to think about it! Get a clue dim >>bulbs....ALL the AC patents are in Tesla's name!!! Get it? >>Tesla discovered alternating current!!!!!! If anyone is a >>desert topping here kiddies...it's you! >> >>Len > >Dear Len, >Are you aware that Tesla claimed that he recieved messages from >certain pigeons? >If this isn't crazy, then how crazy would he have to be to make you >happy? So?! I talk to squirrels and tell non-existent CIA network moles to eat my shorts! Are you sure you want me to reply to this?!?!?!?!? ;^) Len > >Just curious. > >-Gene Battin >battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu >no .sig yet *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14273 alt.alien.visitors:14013 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!stratus!florida!lpb From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Groom or Groome Message-ID: <9069.1401@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 5 Mar 93 21:44:41 GMT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <75832@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@SWDC.Stratus.COM Lines: 24 In article <75832@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: Do you spell Groom Lake with an E on the end and call it >Groome Lake or not. I must be having a temporary mental block. >John Winston. Nay my insane co-poster...it is spelled Groom Lake Len aka: Samurai_Writer aka: Leonidthas aka: Lenny Vales aka: Buck aka: Squirrel aka: Racoon When your a schitzoid man...you're never lonely! :^) -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14276 alt.alien.visitors:14014 sci.skeptic:40308 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Against Star Trek Deep Space 9. Date: 5 Mar 1993 14:31:03 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 20 Message-ID: <1n8kb7INNm99@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76121@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Babylon 5 against Star Trek Deep Space 9. > As I mentioned before these two shows are just about the same. They are >both held aboard a space station. I think that these type of shows soften up ^ Perceptive. >the general public to what some of the space people actually are. > Babylon 5 will have its first showing Monday, Feb. 22, 1993, 8:00 PM channel >44 in the San Francisco Bay area. I believe it will be fairly intertaining. >John Winston. Guess again. -- _________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______ Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Date: 5 Mar 1993 14:47:18 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 57 Message-ID: <1n8l9mINNofv@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1993Mar3.084646.27724@fuug.fi> <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >In article <1993Mar3.084646.27724@fuug.fi> an4773@anon.penet.fi writes: >>I recently watched a video in which Bob Lazar described his theory >>regarding how UFOs work. I was pretty skeptical regarding most of >>his claims and need help in "debunking" his theory. >>7. What is Lazar's reputation in the physics community? Does he really have >> a formal degree in physics? I've heard that people have tried to >> check into his background but havn't been able to confirm his >> registration at US colleges. Is it possible that the government >> (CIA, DIA or NSA) could tell a college to erase his transcripts >> because of "security reasons"??? >> >>8. Is there any possibility that the US government really has flown alien >> vehicles at S4 in Nellis Air Force base? >The ABC news went to A51 and showed footage of something flying around they >said was "not Aroura". Bob Lazar has driven his friends out to see exactly ^^ Kind of hard for ABC to verify, since 1) Aurora has never been proven to exist, 2) if it does exist, ABC News would have no idea what it looked like, and 3) I can put together video of "something flying around" with a handycam and an Amiga -- no problem. And I can do it well enough that You couldn't tell it from the real thing. BFD. >what he said was their, so there are many witnesses. They things are >not bound by G-forces and normal gravity. Good chance we invented them, good ^^^ ^^^ That would be "gravity" and "gravity" for those of you who haven't taken Physics ... or even those of you who have. >chance we borrowed the tech, good change we have some of the origianl >borrowed tech laying about... >Read Michael Lindemanns Six viewpoints for some of the most recent information >on this subject; good interview in their with BL. >Jeff- -- _________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______ Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Date: 5 Mar 1993 14:53:33 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 58 Message-ID: <1n8lldINNp7n@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> <1993Mar5.190402.668@netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >>In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>>> Bob Lazar has driven his friends out to see exactly >>>>what he said was their, so there are many witnesses. >>> >>> . . . who happen to be friends of Lazar's. Why didn't Lazar >>> take some reporters with decent video equipment out there? >So why don't you just be an argumentative Ass? >Obviously it didn't come up at the time, but reporters have been out there with >video equipment, geek... I just got thru telling you that ABC had ALL KINDS >OF FOOTAGE, including artist renderings of Aroura, and some relevant specs. ^^ all of these renderings are hypothetical. >NO, AROURA is not an anit-gravity machine. That much is KNOWN. they even >had reports that the new plane was used in Desert Storm. That much is *not* known. Aurora may well NOT EVEN EXIST. If you compare the evidence from the supposed sightings and the studies from the Copper Canyon project, you begin to suspect that this Aurora business is someone desperately trying to convince you they've got technology that they don't have. >ABC stated in no uncertain terms, this thing you see flying around is NOT, NOT< >NOT Aroura. >>>> They things are not bound by G-forces and normal gravity. >>> >>> So far then, AS USUAL WITH UFO REPORTS, it comes down to FOAF >>> and other word-of-mouth stories. No actual evidence so we >>> can decide for ourselves about whether they are bound by >>> "normal" gravity. >>> >NO, there is much video footage of the sightings, and many eyewitnesses. >Where there is smoke, there is fire. And Bob's latest interview sheds Or where there's smoke, there may well be a smoke machine, designed to confuse the gullible. >a great deal more light on the subject that indicates he is telling the >truth. HAVE YOU READ IT? I doubt it, by the way you mindlessly spout... >Jeff- >PS, see M. Lindemann, Six Viewpoints; UFO's -- _________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______ Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it. Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4524 alt.alien.visitors:14017 alt.religion.kibology:7083 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: MARK-OF-THE-BEA$T bar-code$/scanner$ Date: 5 Mar 1993 15:00:06 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 62 Message-ID: <1n8m1mINNq0q@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1993Feb24.173744.4368@cnsvax.uwec.edu> <1993Feb25.142049.19543@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: >|> >|>> The UPC bar-codes are probably the most blatant form of >|>> the "MARK OF THE BEA$T" so far, with the "NUMBER OF THE >|>> BEA$T", 666, ALREADY CODED INTO THEM. Each of the so-called >|>> "guard patterns", pairs of thin lines spaced close together >|>> at the beginning, middle, and end of each full-length UPC >|>> bar-code, is IDENTICAL to one of the two codes for a 6. > This is pure Bull Shit!!!!! I work with and create bracode labels > and this is utter crap. The begin and end bars are just that BEGIN If you're not part of the solution, you must be part of the precipitate. You ADMIT to working with BAR CODE$? THEN YOU ARE ONE ONE THEM! EVIL EVIL SATANIST FIEND! (ahem) > and END symbols so that the scanner knows where it's at. ^^ If the scanner DOES find out "where it's at" do you think it'll let me know? > THERE ARE NO HIDDEN 6'S ANYWHERE!!!!! Yeah? Then find the 6: 123121212381293819028390182903123 Can't find it? CAUSE IT'S HIDDEN, DAMMIT! > This kind of raving comes from paranoid christians who see evil in > every shadow. > GET A LIFE!!!!!! Do you know of a good source for these? > Steve Food_for_the_Greys/Reptoids >-- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > | | > | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | > | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | > | image to be servants of their human interests. | > | | > | -- George Santayana | > | | > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > -- _________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______ Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it. Xref: icaen alt.postmodern:4525 alt.alien.visitors:14018 alt.religion.kibology:7084 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: MARK-OF-THE-BEA$T bar-code$/scanner$ Date: 5 Mar 1993 15:01:00 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 32 Message-ID: <1n8m3cINNq7b@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1993Feb24.173744.4368@cnsvax.uwec.edu> <1993Feb25.142049.19543@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <1993Mar2.221135.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> <22.2b96a224@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >In article <1993Mar2.221135.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>, quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes: >> timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: >> >>> This is pure Bull Shit!!!!! I work with and create bracode labels >>> and this is utter crap. The begin and end bars are just that BEGIN >>> and END symbols so that the scanner knows where it's at. >> >> You do ? Bracodes ? really ? >> How about sending me a customer list of those people buying 36Ds ? >> >No, I think bra-codes are the conjugate of ket-codes. Only if you're hangin' out in Hilbert Space. >Never mind, >-Garrett >> -- >> Tony Quirke, Wellington, New Zealand (Quirke_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz) >> "Only the free have disposition to be truthful. >> Only the truthful have the interest to be just. >> Only the just possess the willpower to be free." - WH Auden. -- _________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______ Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aludra.usc.edu!not-for-mail From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Date: 5 Mar 1993 15:03:00 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1n8m74INNqn7@aludra.usc.edu> References: <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu robart@agora.rain.com (Hu Man) writes: >In article <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >> They also found a battery in one of the pyramids too.... > Was it an Everready Energizer? Actually, I swapped batteries for my Flash when I was there, so I'm probably responsible for that one. Sorry folks. -- _________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______ Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Subject: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 22:50:17 GMT Message-ID: <21669@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet News at rsoft.bc.ca) Lines: 122 Reprinted from The Toronto Globe and Mail, March 4, 1993. (Canada's National Newspaper) MUTILATED COWS RAISE QUESTIONS, UDDER CHAOS -Cox News Service Sand Mountain, Alabama Who's killing the cows of Sand Mountain? Some suspect aliens in UFOs. Some say Satanists. Or else it's government agents swooping down from helicopters for the kill. Or exposure to high-pressure lines. Or it's cow murderers, impure and simple. Whoever, it's udder chaos up here. As Ted Oliphant said: "There's strange things afoot." Ahoof, too. Since October, 26 (1992) animals -nearly all cows- have been mutilated in several small, rural communities in this mountain in northeastern Alabama. Nearly all have been killed in the same manner, with precise, bloodless, almost high-tech surgical incisions that removed various animal parts: tongues, teeth, eyes, ears, hearts, and excretory and sexual organs. And when the animals are found in pastures, there are no footprints. No wire tracks. No trails. No blood, either. "It's pure Sherlock Holmes and one of the weirdest cases I've ever seen in my life," said Mr. Oliphant, a Fyffe policeman investigating the killings. "We've got no witnesses, no motive, no suspects. The only thing we got is the animals left behind." The mystery is enhanced by two factors: helicopters and UFOs. According to Mr. Oliphant. 95 per cent of the cases have involved reports of helicopter sightings, often with red, green and white lights or blue and white ones. Last month, Jean Cole, the wife of Albertville Chief Detective Tommy Cole saw a copter in their back yard. She saw four men in business suits sitting in it. When she spied them, the copter flew off. The next day, Det. Cole found a Black Angus mutilated, it's sexual organs and rectum removed. "I've seen many animals killed by predators, and there's always blood around, " he said "I've never seen anything like it. I don't know what it was. I've been in the business 35 years. I've had many, many dead cows and bulls, but none like that." Furthermore, Fyffe is the "UFO Capital of Alabama," as proclaimed by the Alabama state Senate in 1989 after several UFO sightings that year. Mr. Oliphant, 33, once a filmaker who made a documentary on UFO's, moved here two and a half years ago to study this phenomenon. A year later, he became a policeman to better understand the effects of life in he UFO Capital of Alabama. Now he is investigating another phenomenon. Thousands of such cow mutilations have occurred across the U.S. since 1967. Linda Louton Howe, a Philadelphia filmaker who made a documentary and wrote a book on the subject, arrived in Fyffe last weekend with a film crew. She's convinced that aliens are responsible. Margaret Pope agrees. A calf belonging to the Geraldine woman was mutilated earlier this month. At first she suspected coyotes. But not with the calf's udders removed. "Like somebody had sliced it off - a straight cut, not like an animal," Mrs Pope said. There was an incision on the left shoulder and a circular cut on the left side of the jaw. The teeth were gone. "There was no sign of a struggle," Mrs Pope said. "No blood, nothing. Just laying there with it's parts cut out. I think it's UFOs, because of lots of lights in the sky, no disturbance on the ground. And the cuts were too precise. But you watch who you say [aliens] to. I don't want to be made fun of. We're not weird. And this isn't fun." Not for John Strawn of Albertville, who's patrolling his land at night to protect his cattle. "This ol' boy don' believe in little green men and flying saucers, because it ain't," he said. "Its strange but it ain't [aliens]. If we want to make up stories we can do better than this." "I heard one storythat it was a swamp ape. I like that one pretty good, a lot better than I like aliens. They ain't no aliens piloting these helicopters, I can tell you. We got cow murderers over here, thats all there is to it." Mr. Strawn insists he's seen helicopters in pastures at night. Earlier this month, Doug Segers said he saw a helicopter forcing his 42 cattle into a corner of his pasture. He was carrying his rifle and when he ran to his truck the copter flew off. Who's responsible? Is it merely bovine intervention? Another theory: Goverment agents, flying in low-level helicopters at night, are killing animals and removing their organs to sxtudy the effects (testing for cancer and other diseases) on livestock living near high-power lines. The most recent mutilation occured Feb 17 (1993), when P.T. Williams of Arab found one of his Black Anguscalves with its reproductive organs, togue and right eye removed. "I'm not saying there are mutilation cases in this county that have not happened," said Jimmy Miller, an investigator for the Alabama Department of Agriculture. "But what I've seen have not been mutilation cases except for Tommy's. There were bodu parts removed from his that could not have ben removed by predators." "Predators don't do this," Mr. Oliphant said. "And is it were a satanic cult they would have used knives and there'd be blood. They'd do it in secrecy and not with technology. Everybody wants me to tell 'em it's a satanic cult, because this is the heart of the Bible Belt and they want an easy explanation so they can be done with it. They don't want to look at the scientific facts. The evidence doesn't lead to that. We've got more than one group doing this. We've got the unexplained events, with high technology, cauterization of wounds. And we've got something I can't release right now." So the folks on Sand Mountain wait and watch. Watch carefully for close encounters of the herd kind. -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Who is it dear? | Don't fear the Reaper, It's a quaint little man from the | Fear your government. village...something about the | reaping!?" | krusty@outb.wimsey.bc.ca ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14278 alt.alien.visitors:14021 sci.skeptic:40316 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!icd.ab.com!macsun!husak From: husak@macsun (Dave Husak) Subject: Re: Fire In The Sky. Message-ID: <1993Mar5.201350.17434@icd.ab.com> Sender: usenet@icd.ab.com (Usenet News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.151.144.28 Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, CIS-AA - Ann Arbor MI, USA References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76931@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 20:13:50 GMT Lines: 17 In article <76931@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: I see in the Net and on TV that the movie Fire In The >Sky will be showing beginning on March 12 in the US. The is a true >story of Travis Walton being taken up in a UFO and being brought >back. This is required viewing and their will be a test. >John Winston. ********************************************************************* John, Will this be graded on a curve? ********************************************************************* "'Tis but a scratch!!!!!!! I've had worse!" ...M.P.& T.H.Grail _____________________________________________________________ My Company Had nothing to do with this. Trust me. Dave Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sgi!fido!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: don allen for prime minister Message-ID: <1993Mar5.173955.6425@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <21585@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 17:39:55 GMT Lines: 42 Dear USA Haters: FFFFFFFFFFFF OOOOOOOOOOO AAAA DDDDDDDD ||! F O O A A D D ||| F O O A A D D ||| F O 0 A A D D ||| F O O A A D D ||| FFFFFFFFFFF O O AAAAAAAAAAAA D D ||| F O O A A D D ||| F O O A A D D ||| F O O A A D D ||| F O O A A D D F O O A A D D 000 F OOOOOOOOOOO A A DDDDDDDD OOO THE NEXT TIME YOU ALL NEED A HANDOUT OR SOME TROUP SUPPORT GO PISS UP A ROPE!! BE GLAD WE ARE NOT AGGRESSIVE LIKE SADDAM OR RUSSIA.................. Why is it that we are the EVIL EMPIRE until someone in the world needs either MONEY or MILITARY FORCE. Then we are not so bad..........until they don't need us anymore. Then we are EVIL again..........What a bunch of fine weathered friends............with friends like that....................................... ........................................................................... ...... ....................Take a good look in the mirror, how do you all sleep at night? Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!vccnorthd.its.rpi.edu!phillm2 From: phillm2@vccnorthd.its.rpi.edu (Mark Charles Phillips) Subject: Re: First flame posted to LEN BUCUVALAS Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: vccnorthd.its.rpi.edu Reply-To: phillm2@rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. References: <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1993 00:53:21 GMT Lines: 3 Blondie, you've got a lot of guts. Mark P. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Gravity... Message-ID: <1993Mar8.190638.16986@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 19:06:38 GMT Lines: 43 sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) writes: ^>In article <1993Mar3.084646.27724@fuug.fi> an4773@anon.penet.fi writes: ^>>I recently watched a video in which Bob Lazar described his theory ^>>regarding how UFOs work. I was pretty skeptical regarding most of ^>>his claims and need help in "debunking" his theory {much deleted} ^>said was "not Aroura". Bob Lazar has driven his friends out to see exactlyKind of hard for ABC to verify, since 1) Aurora has never been proven to ^exist, 2) if it does exist, ABC News would have no idea what it looked like, ^and 3) I can put together video of "something flying around" with a handycam ^and an Amiga -- no problem. And I can do it well enough that You couldn't tell ^it from the real thing. ^BFD. ^>what he said was their, so there are many witnesses. They things are ^>not bound by G-forces and normal gravity. Good chance we invented them, good ^^^ ^^^ ^ That would be "gravity" and "gravity" for those of you who haven't taken ^Physics ... or even those of you who have. ^>chance we borrowed the tech, good change we have some of the origianl ^>borrowed tech laying about... ^>Read Michael Lindemanns Six viewpoints for some of the most recent information ^>on this subject; good interview in their with BL. ^>Jeff- -- Actually it is near-Earth gravity, Earth Orbit, Reaction between Two bodies with comparable masses and gravitational forces, strong and weak nuleic forces. Note: The force in the nucleus of an atom is many many times stronger than "normal" gravity. Take Engineering Physics 180 and 182 plus Chemisty 115 sometime. ^^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Re: First flame posted to LEN BUCUVALAS Message-ID: <1993Mar8.191308.17410@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 19:13:08 GMT Lines: 4 Your welcome John.... ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE (The Lady With The Blond Hair) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!bigboy.sbc.com!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!miller From: miller@cwis.unomaha.edu (Marnie Miller) Subject: Re: RADIO WAVES Message-ID: <1993Mar8.192858.2127@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 19:28:58 GMT Lines: 49 mcsdc1rs@dct.ac.uk writes: > HELLO EARTHBEINGS. > > MY NAME IS BILLY I HEAR RADIO WAVES IN MY HEAD. > > I WAS WONDERING IF ANY ONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM. > > IT MAY SEEM PRETTY FUNNY TO YOU PEOPLE BUT I CAN HONESTLY LISTEN TO THE RADIO > > IN MY HEAD WITHOUT THE USE OF A TRANSISTOR. > > IT IS VERY ANNOYING WHEN YOU ARE WALKING ABOUT LISTENING TO A CERTAIN STATION > AND YOU WALK UNDER A BUILDING AS I CAN ONLY NHEAR IN LONG WAVE > > MY FAVOURITE STATION IS ATLANTIC 252 AS I CAN GET A CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION IF > I STICK MY FINGER UP MY NOSE. > It would come in in stereo if you'd pull your head out of your ass! > > IS THIS ALIEN INTERVENTION OF SOME KIND......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OR AM I JUST GIBBERING. > > ATLANTIC 252 > Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!kinguni2!neptune.kingston.ac.uk!te_s227 From: te_s227@neptune.kingston.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO: Some points to consider Date: 8 Mar 93 20:13:24 GMT Organization: Computing Services, Kingston Polytechnic Lines: 87 Message-ID: <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: neptune.king.ac.uk The subject of UFO's has interested me for some time, however most reports are spurious and are ordinay or unusual meteorlogical phemonina or aircraft. I think that some UFO reports may be caused by the sighting of a hi-tech alien spacecraft. These are photon rockets using microwave photon radiation to give thrust through radiation pressure. (photon reaction). To give reasonable force huge powers are required so to lift 1000kg in the earths gravitational field would be about 10**13 watt, ie 10TW. This would give a good acceleration for space travel. The theory of the photon rocket is a consequence of the theory of relativity by A. Einstein. The thrust due to radiation pressure is the value of Poyntings Vector divided by the velocity of light, see physics textbook. 10TW gives a thrust of 333KNewtons and will therefore lift 33000 Kg or give a mass of 1000Kg an acceleration of 333 Metres/sec/sec (33g) more than enough to propell a decent sized spacecraft. To appreciate the photon rocket you should recognise that its specific impulse is sufficient to attain 99 percent of the velocity of light witha mass ratio of around 100. This calculation comes from the theory of the relativistic photon rocket and is straight out of a book on relativity. Not unreasonable. The difficult part is the generation of that power and conversion ratio. A matter to energy engine is the only possibility and only a few grams per second is necessary to hover near the earth! This calculation is from the energy of matter from (again) relativity theory a burn of 1g/sec gives a power of 90TWatt. Another problem is the handling of this power, and my contention is that part of the craft is a parabolic reflector to give a directional beam, this gives rise to the inverted "Saucer" shape, frequently reported. I do not know of a mechanism that would convert matter into energy or a technology to handle the power, but that does not mean to say that it is impossible to an advanced race, after all the power we can handle is increasing rapidly now. This power, on take off, would cause the burned rings observed, and the air ionisation caused by the passage of such power through our atmosphere causes the glows and pink light also observed in connection with some sightings. This power also causes fluorescent tubes to light up if the energy beam passes through them. These effects have all been observed. The microwave energy beam would be strongly absorbed by the atmosphere because of this ionisation and the power level would soon drop. I have estimated that the scattered power of isotropic radiation would be around 1MW and this is what causes the radio interference, also reported. It is likely that the power would be pulsed in order to control it and the radio interference would therefore be of a buzzing nature. I believe all connection with spiritualism is a fallacy. Genuine sightings are of a solid object, possibly containing creatures or instruments. We should attempt to contact them (by radio) if possible. 2 metres FM would be an easy frequency to start from. There are difficulties with the effect of these huge power levels on the soil any water in the soil would be very quickly converted into vapour and cause the soil to be ejected (also observed). To appreciate the problem, if the power was spread over a diameter of 20 meters (observerd in landing reports where there is a trace) then the power is down to 3EXP6 ie 3MW per cm squared. The microwave energy would penetrate into the soil with ab- sorbtion depending on the frequency, and thus the heating effect would be spread through a volume. I calculate that boiling point would be reached quickly and appreciable quantity of vapour raised in about 1 second. Some sighting reports have stated that the soil was "red hot" immediately after take-off. The microwave beam would ionise the air through the breakdown of the insulation of the air due to the high electric field associated with the beam at this energy density. Air would glow a colour depending on the power level and may well change as the craft altered its accaleration. Some sightings do report a change in colour, this supports the idea. I understand that the colour of ionised air is pink. The craft would have a column of glowing air underneath as it supported itself on the beam, by photon reaction. I think that these ideas lend some credence to the possibility that our planet is being occassionally visited by advanced people or their machines from another solar system, of which there are probably many. Chris Strevens. "cstrevens@king.ac.uk" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!newshost.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!stafford_u Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A question... Message-ID: <1993Mar9.091827.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> From: stafford_u@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Ursula 'Fnordibo' Stafford) Date: 9 Mar 93 09:18:26 NZST Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access. NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Lines: 13 Hawo... I am a new arrival on Earth with just one question. WHY DON'T YOUR MCDONALDS RESTAURANTS HAVE CAT-BURGERS?!? Wilcox. -- HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY - THE MOVIE!! HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY 2 - THE REVENGE... Ursula "Fnordibo" Stafford stafford_u@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz DISCLAIMER: FUZZY!!! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Cow Mutilations Message-ID: <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 20:38:18 GMT Lines: 13 The best way for the government to run tests on potential environmental hazards without giving credence that there is a hazard to the community surrounding it and also to cover their tracks is to hide right out in the open. Misdirection by painstaikenly cutting up their test subjects and making it look like aliens. No one would be the wiser. Did you see the movie "Sneakers" where the Black Box was inside what looked like the answering machine on top of the desk in plain view. Hiding out in plain sight...... And yes Mike I do have intestinal fortitude. ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 20:58:06 GMT References: <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 41 In article <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> te_s227@neptune.kingston.ac.uk writes: > >The subject of UFO's has interested me for some time, however most reports >are spurious and are ordinay or unusual meteorlogical phemonina or aircraft. > >I think that some UFO reports may be caused by the sighting of a hi-tech >alien spacecraft. These are photon rockets using microwave photon radiation >to give thrust through radiation pressure. (photon reaction). >To give reasonable force huge powers are required so to lift 1000kg in >the earths gravitational field would be about 10**13 watt, ie 10TW. >This would give a good acceleration for space travel. [ . . . ] >This power, on take off, would cause the burned rings observed, and the >air ionisation caused by the passage of such power through our atmosphere >causes the glows and pink light also observed in connection with some >sightings. This power also causes fluorescent tubes to light up if >the energy beam passes through them. These effects have all been observed. This much power would do a lot more than singe a few blades of grass! You'd be looking at giant holes of melted silicates and anyone who happened to be looking at such a UFO on-axis with the thrust, even from a distance would get his retinas burned out. >I believe all connection with spiritualism is a fallacy. Genuine sightings >are of a solid object, possibly containing creatures or instruments. It hasn't been shown yet that there ARE any "genuine" sightings. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Subject: Life=Pain&Death Message-ID: <1993Mar8.210143.20857@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Reply-To: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 21:01:43 GMT Lines: 53 chroma@toad.com (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') writes: ^In article <1993Mar3.220855.22336@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: ^>^As a thought: how much difference would it make to human culture if we ^>^could neither die, nor feel pain? ^> ^> We wouldn't exist since everything dies (entropic effect) and ^>if we had no feelings we would not know we were hungry or be stimulated in any ^way. Everything is stimulatecd or it isn't alive. ^> ^> ^> ^> ^> ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE ^Let's see...I knew someone who had very limited pain sensation. ^Said person got very easily injured and had to watch things carefully. ^If people were not to die for a long time, the heat-death-of-the-universe ^is kind of far away, then things would be quite different. I wonder if ^there would be a lot more scholars or not. A lot of people might rush ^less. It might take longer for new ideas to get introduced. People ^would either have to reproduce more infrequently or they would have ^to quickly move into space. ^ Be Seeing You, ^ sends steve All animals are genetically endowed with a nervous system of some kind. EI: Our centralized nerve system or the system that makes photosinthesis dependent plants move in the direction of the sun. When I talk about entropic effect I am referring to the heat loss in a lifeforms body... With matter of any kind, death ios inevitable, but if we to live a much longer life span yes we would need to cut down on reproductivity. Bunnies multiply like crazy because they are eaten and thus have a smaller life span. Sea turtles have very long life spans and also reproduce like crazy but very few baby turles survive long enough to become reproducing adults. Trees reproduce if there is room and enough nutrients to go around. Mosquitoes go wild because the Earth is a very big place for them and they only live a few days. We humans are the only exception to the ecosystem balance between reproduction and life span. Going into space will not even put a worthwhile dent in our population only ensure the survival of our species. In such old writings like old religion sacred books there is evidence that humans can have much longer lifespans. It's just all the pollution, violence, and diseases that keep us down. If the aliens see us as a future threat, wouldn't they want us to stay the same? Maybe introvene a little to ensure our lifespans stay short so that an individual will not have enough time to amass the knowledge to really get us out to the stars? ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14317 alt.alien.visitors:14114 alt.religion.kibology:7146 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!sdcvax!udpvax!ethylvm!vroomv!delbar!linq!beast From: beast@linq.UUCP (The Beast of Shorts) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: The Afterlife. Part 2. Message-ID: <5835218293@linq.com> Date: 08 Mar 93 21:35:58 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Numb-minded Gerbil Collectors With Urine Samples References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77075@cup.portal.com> Sender: newsboy@linq.com Lines: 15 > The End. > Source of Information: WEEKLY WORLD NEWS. March 16, 1993 Page 30. > John Winston > > w, I don't drsws > B ` > bTk@ck F c > qsuB > 0Roman 10cpieologian Wener Staam. who says those who've returned from > life-after-death experiences have confirmed that d Quick! His brain is leaking out! Someone grab a bucket! (Quote-of-the-Hour: "0Roman 10cpieologian Wener Staam") Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14318 alt.alien.visitors:14115 sci.skeptic:40400 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!wupost!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Answer Message-ID: Sender: news@cs.uiuc.edu Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76986@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 21:49:24 GMT Lines: 11 In article <76986@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Earth Dwellers: I would suggest that you people not conplain |> so much because you did volunteer to come here. |> John Winston Maybe so, but you should have seen the alternative.... -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14116 alt.paranormal:6599 alt.conspiracy:23869 alt.freedom.of.information.act:48 sci.geo.geology:3978 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.freedom.of.information.act,sci.geo.geology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!physiol.su.OZ.AU!cortex.physiol.su.oz.au!annick From: annick@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Annick Ansselin) Subject: Re: Mohole Coverup? Message-ID: Sender: news@physiol.su.OZ.AU (The News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: cortex.physiol.su.oz.au Organization: Department of Physiology, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia References: <1993Mar7.214429.2327@fuug.fi> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 22:05:01 GMT Lines: 3 I thought the project was stopped through lack of money. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Subject: RE: Alternate Forms Of Energy Message-ID: <1993Mar8.212738.21825@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Reply-To: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 21:27:38 GMT Lines: 15 John, How did they get around the Carnot efficiency of 70%. Are they using a variation on the Stirling engine or Vallieumier Heat Pump? Incidently the busses in Utah are running on external combustion stirling engines. They are using Hydrogen for the heat end and I think a radiator for the cool end. My idea (which will be patented in '94) will be about as efficient as a normal internal combustion engine but more evironmentally friendly. Do you think maybe the aliens have learn to use superconductors for locomotion? They would have limitless energy from cold fusion as well, I would assume they have it since Fleischmann has recently discovered it here. ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!titan.ucs.umass.edu!not-for-mail From: eggo@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Round Waffle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Life on Saturn Date: 8 Mar 1993 17:08:17 -0500 Organization: The Durex Blender Corporation Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1ngg4hINNrpg@titan.ucs.umass.edu> References: <1993Mar7.221035.28707@netcom.com> <77077@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu In article <77077@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Thinkers: I believe people are on Saturn but not in the physical >form as we exist. >John Winston. Well, would they still be considered "people"? Wouldn't they just be "entities" or "pudding" or something similar? Wouldn't they have theoretically been discovered by one of the space probes we've sent out to Saturn? -- +- eggo@titan.ucc.umass.edu --><-- Eat Some Paste -+ +- Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, -+ +- Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -+ +----------------- The Durex Blender Corporation -----------------+ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!caen!nic.umass.edu!titan.ucs.umass.edu!not-for-mail From: eggo@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Round Waffle) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Date: 8 Mar 1993 17:21:47 -0500 Organization: The Durex Blender Corporation Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1nggtrINN9n@titan.ucs.umass.edu> References: <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu In article <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu writes: > > The best way for the government to run tests on potential >environmental hazards without giving credence that there is a >hazard to the community surrounding it and also to cover their >tracks is to hide right out in the open. Misdirection by >painstaikenly cutting up their test subjects and making it look >like aliens. No one would be the wiser. Did you see the movie Let's say the government is indeed testing "environmental hazards" (what exactly do you mean by this?) on animals. I think it's safe to say they'd test on something a little more inconspicuous (lab rats come to mind). Given that cows are dissimilar to humans, biologically (which is why they're called "cows"), it would be a waste of the government's time and money to work so hard on a cover-up of that scale. It's a lot easier to incinerate a bunch of dead mice than to methodically and painstakingly cut apart a herd of cattle. > > ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE -- +- eggo@titan.ucc.umass.edu --><-- Eat Some Paste -+ +- Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, -+ +- Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -+ +----------------- The Durex Blender Corporation -----------------+ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14120 alt.paranormal:6600 alt.conspiracy:23872 alt.freedom.of.information.act:49 sci.geo.geology:3979 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!olivea!charnel!rat!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!nezsdc!derek From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.freedom.of.information.act,sci.geo.geology Subject: Re: Mohole Coverup? Message-ID: <1993Mar8.192115.7732@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> Date: 8 Mar 93 19:21:15 GMT References: <1993Mar7.214429.2327@fuug.fi> Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand - Software Development Center Lines: 41 In article <1993Mar7.214429.2327@fuug.fi> an15338@anon.penet.fi writes: > >Many of you will recall the Mohole Project. It was an effort to drill a >well down through the Mohorovicic Discontinuity in the Earth's crust. > >The project was abruptly abandoned without a very satisfactory explanation >of why it failed or was terminated. > >There is a persistent rumor that the project was terminated after the >drill broke through into an empty cavity, and brought up a drill core >containing some clearly artificial materials resembling nothing known >to current technology, from several miles down. Wooh, Wooh, Alien visitors, men in black suits, danger, danger. The backbone cabal rises again. Just for the people who might like to believe these types of conspiracy and who post about them from the inevitable anon.penet.fi. I recall a couple of reasons for the ending of the Moho project. 1. It was a phenomenally expensive research project with no apparent value other than to science. Started in those halcyon days of the '60's and 70's when governments were funding this type of thing (remember the moon shots!). Now, of course, they are no longer funding this type of thing. 2. The realisation that rocks of the type they were attempting to reach were happily outcropping in the Afar triangle region of North East Africa. Although it is an inconvenient place for a field trip ( one of the hottest places on the earth) it is significantly cheaper than trying to drill down though several Km's of rock. Also a lot cooler than the Mohorivicic discontinuity. -- Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz -- Fujitsu New Zealand -- Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor. "If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Ontario UFO base? Message-ID: Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <31DZZB3w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 22:07:41 GMT Lines: 56 In <31DZZB3w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: >LAKE ONTARIO UFO BASE! >07/02/89 > SINCE THE EARLY 1970'S, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF CURIOUSITY >SEEKERS FOLLOWING UP CANADIAN/US NEWSPAPER ARTICLES CONCERNING CANADIAN >RESIDENTS OBSERVING 'EERIE' NIGHT LIGHTS GOING IN -AND- OUT OF LAKE >ONTARIO WATERS. > IN ONE OF THE FIRST UFO REVIEWS, BY T.G. BECKLEY, PETER WERNER >HAD TAKEN A TIME ELAPSED PICTURE, AT NIGHT, OF THESE STRANGE NIGHT >LIGHTS. THE YEAR 1976 WAS THE YEAR I HAD JOINED UP WITH AN INDIVIDUAL, >MALCOLM WILLIAMS, ALONG WITH SEVERAL OTHERS, AS AN INVESTIGATIVE TEAM, TO >ACTUALLY FIND OUT WHAT THESE CURIOUSITY SEEKERS HAD OBSERVED. FROM 1976 >THROUGH 1982, THE MOST EXTENSIVE PART OF OUR WORK WAS DONE, BUT WE STILL >CONTINUE TO THIS DAY TO INVESTIGATE WHAT WE KNOW NOW IS TO BE AN ACTUAL >UFO BASE IN LAKE ONTARIO. > > TWO MAIN ITEMS OF INTEREST WE HAVE SEEKED SINCE 1976, BUT STILL >HAVE HAD NO RESPONSE IS: 1] A BOAT FOR WATER EXCURSIONS 2] AN AIRPLANE. >SINCE LAKE ONTARIO IS CONSIDERED TO BE A 'LARGER' DEVIL'S WATER THAN THE >BURMUDA TRIANGLE, THE PEOPLE WE HAVE ASKED TO TAKE US OUT ON THE LAKE >-OR- ABOVE THE LAKE, HAVE RELUCTANTLY SAID 'NO'!!! WE STILL SEEK > ANYONE THAT WISHES TO SIT BACK AND SCIENTIFICALLY SPECULATE, WITH >NO PREVIOUS INVESTIGATION OF THE LAKE ONTARIO, THAT THESE ARE AIRPLANES, >BE MY GUEST, FOR I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF AN AIRPORT 'UNDERWATER' ! > SPECULATORS -AND- BEBUNKERS WE DON'T NEED, BUT ARE MORE THAN >WELCOME WITH THEIR OPINIONS ! > OUR INVESTIGATIVE TEAM, AGAIN, IS STILL IN NEED OF A BOAT AND >AIRPLANE TO COMPLETE THIS EXCURSION. ANY SERIOUS ADVENTURERS WITH THESE >( EITHER OR ) FACILITIES, PLEASE WRITE THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE ! > > WRITE TO: NEIL A. PALUMBO > AVW UFO INVESTIGATIONS > P.O. BOX #166 > HAMLIN, NY 14464 > >1] E-MAIL CAN BE LEFT UNDER: NEIL PALUMBO/PARANET ALPHA/303-232-6115 I corresponded with Palumbo a couple of times on FIDO. He's more than a little convinced of the UFO base in Lake Ontario. The trouble is that others have seen the lights and were convinced they WERE airplanes. The illusion of entering the water depends on your vantage point. I've seen it on that lake, too. What I'd like to see is a nice long list of NL case data, complete with directions, dates, times, etc. We can forget about the older stuff and concentrate on the recent cases. Rather than a boat (though that would be good), it might be just as useful to have observers position themselves at least a mile or two apart, and communicate with CBs when an NL was spotted, then getting triangulations. THAT's the data that would be preferred. No, I am not a "BEBUNKER", as the report spells it. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sarah!albnyvms.bitnet!PC8537 From: pc8537@albnyvms.bitnet Subject: Blondie Message-ID: <1993Mar8.224736.17571@sarah.albany.edu> Sender: news@sarah.albany.edu (News Administrator) Reply-To: pc8537@albnyvms.bitnet Organization: University of Albany, SUNY Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 22:47:36 GMT Lines: 4 Say, Blondie, how old are you? Are you a student? -Han Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!orca!pebbles!mrowley From: mrowley@pebbles.es.com (Michael Rowley) Subject: anti-gravity Message-ID: <1993Mar8.225951.22544@dsd.es.com> Sender: usenet@dsd.es.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.187.85.70 Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 22:59:51 GMT Lines: 7 Anybody out there have any information about the latest theorys on anti gravity. I used to work at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and while there I talked to a number of scientists and engineers. I couldn't get any useful info from any of them, which is kind of strange since I thought NASA was on top of things like this. I believe antigravity exists as a force and it may be possible to generate it and control the applied point source. mike Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: China UfO Message-ID: <1993Mar9.011719.23480@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:17:19 GMT References: <1993Mar7.082039.26660@colorado.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com tigger, >>>>>>>>CHINA >>>>Strange UFO sighting Short UFO sighting deleted..... Any pictures??????? Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> <1993Mar5.190402.668@netcom.com> <1n8lldINNp7n@aludra.usc.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 17:20:41 GMT Lines: 50 sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) writes: >That much is *not* known. Aurora may well NOT EVEN EXIST. If you compare the >evidence from the supposed sightings and the studies from the Copper Canyon >project, you begin to suspect that this Aurora business is someone desperately >trying to convince you they've got technology that they don't have. Except for the airline pilot sightings, the viewer on the ground sightings, the people in northern Europe sightings, and the seismic "footptints" (known as "skyquakes") that are something which most aviation enthusiasts refer to as "Aurora".....other than that, Aurora probably doesn't exist.... :-) :-) >>ABC stated in no uncertain terms, this thing you see flying around is NOT, NOT< >>NOT Aroura. (being speculative......) Various news networks have SEEN footage of some of the current "black aircraft" but will not show it for security reasons - some of the networks have probably shot footage themselves. They may well be able to state that "this isn't "Aurora", because with no other knowledge of just what project "Aurora" involves, the other stuff is far too different from the film they already have. Or maybe not. My suspiscion, backed by some other av. freaks similar suspiscions, is that "Aurora" is probably NOT a single airframe, but covers a whole BUNCH of different airframes that are for varying purposes....although they most likely all fly REAL high and REAL fast. And most likely, they are all for intelligence gathering purposes, i.e., an SR71 replacement, in SPITE of what USAF said, probably as a smokescreen....... >>>>> They things are not bound by G-forces and normal gravity. >>>> >>>> So far then, AS USUAL WITH UFO REPORTS, it comes down to FOAF >>>> and other word-of-mouth stories. No actual evidence so we >>>> can decide for ourselves about whether they are bound by >>>> "normal" gravity. >>>> Interesting commentary - *everything* is in some way bound by or perhaps, WITH gravity.....the question is, do you have enough energy to *overcome* gravity, assuming you know HOW to do so?????? >Or where there's smoke, there may well be a smoke machine, designed to >confuse the gullible. You hit one of the nails right on the head - that is possibly THE most common tactic used in the Black Projects community.... Duane Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1993Mar5.190402.668@netcom.com> <1n8lldINNp7n@aludra.usc.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 17:35:51 GMT Lines: 33 unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes: >The plane believed to have been used in Desert Storm is the TR-3a.... There is some speculation that at least ONE of the Aurora aircraft, whichever of the (apparently) several different types was flying at the time, may have indeed made overflights of the middle east during Desert Storm. The TR3A, while still pretty much under wraps, appears to be a whole different ballgame, and a much more conventional aircraft than any of the "Aurora" stuff..... >Hmmmm...... I seem to recall we funded a production run of an aircraft >called "aurora" in 1985 or so. It was part of the budget request for the >A12/SR71 and U-2/TR-1 programs. ^^^ The CIA's Blackbirds, known to them as "Oxcart" and to us as the "A12", were a dead issue by 1968 (unfortunately) and were replaced by the SR71. They spent YEARS in mothballs out at Palmdale, CA., and just within the last few years were finally publically acknowledged and parcelled out to museums. The budget mention in the congressional records was apparently an accident that, had it not happened, would have kept the Aurorae out of public view and scrutiny for several more years than actually happened. >- "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - >- native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - Rob, that's an EXCELLENT line.... :-) :-) Duane Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14321 alt.alien.visitors:14127 sci.skeptic:40419 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Ear Candles. Message-ID: <77117@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 18:19:08 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 58 Subject: Stick It In Your Ear. When I first got into the investigation of flying saucers I started receiving teaching from Sister Thedra, a person who channeled such entities as Sananda and Sanat Kumara. I told my teacher that I would like to go up to the town of Mt. Shasta and meet Sister Thedra and he asked her by mail if it would be OK. She wrote back that she and her group were very busy sending out the Teachings and didn't have time to answer a lot of basic questions. It was suggested that I study for a couple of years and then I could come up. Merelle (my Guru) told me about this and it made me a little mad, so I used some things that he had already taught me, like astral projection and mental telepathy and contacted Sananda and Sanat Kumara to tell Thedra to let me come on up. Within a couple of days Merelle got a letter saying it would be OK for me to come on up. They treated me like a long lost friend when I got up there. The first time I ever saw Thedra she was sticking something in a person's ear and lighting it on fire. I thought for sure I had got myself in contact with people who were practicing witchcraft but then she explained it and everything was OK. Some information has come through now that will explain what she was doing so here goes;.....The hottest fad in home healing is a remarkable herbal candle that can be stuck into the ear and lit to make even the worst migraine headaches vanish like magic. The fantastic 15-minute treatment was originated by North American Indians, but has only recently begun taking the West by storm. Besides being a wonder cure for migrains, the amazing candles have also soothed the awful ringing and buzzing that plagues sufferers of tinnitus, drains excess wax build-up, and regulates sinuses. The thought of stuffing a candle in your ear may sound strange, but the hollow wax tubes with foil lining slide only a fraction of an inch inside the opening. The lighted end produces a two-inch flame that creates a vacuum that draws impurities from your head. Patients lie on their side to have one of the candles placed into the ear pointing toward the ceiling. The wick is allowed to burn several minutes before it's extinguished and the candle is removed. The process is then repeated on the other ear. New Age therapist Jilly Hamilton stumbled upon the eerie treatment while working in Geneva, Switzerland. The British reflexologist now uses candle burning in additon to her regualr foot-manipulation techniques of healing. "The purified wax owes its magical healing qualities to the Indian therapeutic herbs, such as the sage and selected extracts of honey that impregnate it," says Jilly. "The hollow tube when burned creates a mild suction which regualtes the sinuses. The herbal vapor collects and removes impurities and deposits in the ear. "During the burning process, the silver foil lining reflects the flow of heat inwards and stimulates the lymph and blood circulation to strengthen the immune system." Jilly predicts the candle therapy will soon provide welcome relief for the millions who suffer from migraine headaches. Randy Mulligan swears by the wax tubes. The 28-year-old Boston construction worker used to spend hours of agony in bed with migraines. "Now I burn two candles and within 15 minutres I'm back on my feet ready to conquer the world," says Randy. JW I checked on a few places and finally bought one over at a Metaphysical Book Store in San Jose, Calif called The Golden Tree Book Store. I haven't had time to try it our yet, but I'll let you know how everything come out. Source of Information: My experiences and the SUN - March 2.1993 page 30 John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: RE: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: <1993Mar9.021810.212@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 02:18:10 GMT Lines: 6 They also found a Big-Mac inside the jaws of a T-Rex fossil... Gimme a break, will 'ya... Max Elliott max@megatek.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14322 alt.alien.visitors:14129 sci.skeptic:40422 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: Key West Message-ID: <1993Mar9.040032.25864@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <76375@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 04:00:32 GMT Lines: 7 kfisher: You object to a program that has a character with newage beliefes? Don't watch it then. Non-christians have had to put up with christian characters on tv. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Jaguar Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14323 alt.alien.visitors:14130 sci.skeptic:40424 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!bvickers From: bvickers@valentine.ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) Subject: Re: Ear Candles. Nntp-Posting-Host: valentine.ics.uci.edu Message-ID: <2B9C186D.28275@ics.uci.edu> Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Reply-To: bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 9 Date: 9 Mar 93 04:09:17 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77117@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > The lighted end produces a two-inch flame that creates a vacuum that >draws impurities from your head. I don't think that's the only thing it drew from your head. -- Brett J. Vickers bvickers@ics.uci.edu Xref: icaen sci.energy:14056 alt.alien.visitors:14131 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3095 Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU!bss2p From: bss2p@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blues Sponge) Subject: Re: Free Energy and Wimhurst Machines? Message-ID: <1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Keywords: free energy Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 03:49:50 GMT Lines: 36 In article <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann (Behse)) writes: > > >Don't ask me how the machine works ! I guess it is some kind of a >capacitive transformer, which drops the High Voltage from this >Wimhurst machine design down to about 300 Volts DC and 10 Amperes of current. > >The group Methernitha keeps it still a secret, but I gonna post the next >days all the pictures I have on this machine to get it wider known. > > There's a mpeg movie of it 'working' also. Looks more like a VW engine with an alternator. I just did a few library searches and "Wimhurst", "Methernitha", "Methernitha", "Testatika" aren't in the database. If you have facts (not claims) who this guy is and what type of machine this is claimed to be, you should post it here or at the phoenix site. 'Some people' are inclined to believe perpetual motion/free energy claims but their lack of a scientific background doesn't allow them to debate how such a machine fits in with or extends our understanding of science. I'm pretty open minded, but so far this story might as well have been about a mechanic in Georgia that has a gas powered pickup that flys regularly to Saturn. B) So.. more info, please. BS Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14325 alt.alien.visitors:14132 sci.skeptic:40425 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU!bss2p From: bss2p@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blues Sponge) Subject: 'balled' lighening? nope. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.040009.21483@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77117@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 04:00:09 GMT Lines: 13 Referencing a few notes back: It's 'Ball' lightening, and noone has shown the conditions for consistantly creating it. (I'm covered with Tesla, he never told how he supposedly had such a problem with too much of it) BS Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14326 alt.alien.visitors:14133 sci.skeptic:40426 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: Space Person's Opinion of Earth People. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76773@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 04:31:46 GMT Lines: 20 My aliens have a low opinion of earthlings, yet come to us to 'experience' earth life? Sorta reminds me of all the teenagers tryig to act tough, then going home to familiy , church and high scholastic acheivment. Note< we Do harnass the contractions of our female orgainismis for birth. Labor, I believe they call, it, and none too comfy say the women who have done it. Now, is it INEVITABLE that the earth go going, down the route of ecological catastrophies? Personally, I do not think so. Man has always changed his environment, ever since he learned of fire, and of agriculture. I do not think our species can't come up with answers to prevent and reverse ecological damage. What about the rest of you newage net folk? Agree? Disagree? What would you think newage type thought would have to comment/ say about man and the environment? Jaguar Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14327 alt.alien.visitors:14134 sci.skeptic:40427 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!cypress!darrell From: darrell@cypress.ucsc.edu (Darrell Long) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ear Candles. Date: 9 Mar 1993 04:34:31 GMT Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE Lines: 14 Sender: darrell@cypress (Darrell Long) Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nh6onINNpqo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77117@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cypress.ucsc.edu In article <77117@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Subject: Stick It In Your Ear. |> When I first got into the investigation of flying saucers I started |> receiving teaching from Sister Thedra, a person who channeled such entities |> as Sananda and Sanat Kumara. |> ... |> "The hollow tube when burned creates a mild suction which regualtes the |> sinuses. The herbal vapor collects and removes impurities and deposits in |> the ear. |> ... |> Jilly predicts the candle therapy will soon provide welcome relief for the |> millions who suffer from migraine headaches. This is a joke, right? Surely no one is this gullible. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14328 alt.alien.visitors:14135 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: Abductions Message-ID: <1993Mar9.044341.28779@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <75556@cup.portal.com> <9026.29691@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Mar4.200516.813@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 04:43:41 GMT Lines: 7 My main beef with Mr. Winston is that he just posts. You try to talk with him, and he blows you off. No debate allowed. Jaguar likes to debate stuff into the groungd.. oops ground... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14329 alt.alien.visitors:14136 sci.skeptic:40430 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: What Would A Space Person Think Of Earth. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.045439.29680@wam.umd.edu> Keywords: cia,mj12,bush,rockefeller,rothschild,forrestal Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <75758@cup.portal.com> <9052.29366@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 04:54:39 GMT Lines: 34 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: What Would A Space Person Think Of Earth. Summary: Expires: References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <75758@cup.portal.com> <9052.29366@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Keywords: cia,mj12,bush,rockefeller,rothschild,forrestal Well babies are not known for cleanliness... unless mom is there to clean them up and keep them from chewing and slobbering on everything in sight. You expect any better from a inteligent race which has just discovered technology, and is learning of the ramifications of it? All we have is trial and error. we make CFC's for coolants, to run our refridgerators, for solvents to make microchips, propell our grooming products... then we find out it is destroying our ultraviolet shielding. OPPS. So we stop using it and try to find a (safer) alternative. So go on. Cruise off to that next star system. But do not complain. If we are messy and sloopy and a bit destructive, well it isn't our fault that no adult is around to show us the proper way to do things. (just wait.. when we grow up we will sue our parents for abandonment!) Galactic court: Homo Sapiens has lodged a claim of maternal negelect and abandonment of a fledgling intelligent race by the Alphian race... Karmic debt estimated at 100 trillion re-encarnations as a non-sentinent life form..... how do you plead? Jaguar Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!msuinfo!anchovy.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@anchovy.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: cattle mutilations Date: 9 Mar 1993 05:00:15 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 9 Sender: wilbur@anchovy.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nh88v$huk@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: anchovy.cps.msu.edu CNN had a segment on the cattle mutilations about a week ago. And I also heard that it was in "USA TODAY". I heard this info BEFORE I checked this group. I thought the group might have heard even more. SO fairly reliable sources have made refference to current cattle mutilations going on in the south. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14331 alt.alien.visitors:14138 sci.skeptic:40431 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: What Would A Space Person Think Of Earth. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.051003.910@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <75758@cup.portal.com> <9052.29366@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Mar5.061756.20012@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 05:10:03 GMT Lines: 9 Ken: You assume aliens would not judge us by thier standard.... by thier culture. One could hope so. However, humans through out time have used the standards of thier culture to judge the s judge the standards of another... Only lately have anthropoplogists tried not to do so. While I hope this is a human folly, it is not out of the question that and intelligent life form from another planet may do the same. Jaguar Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14332 alt.alien.visitors:14139 sci.skeptic:40432 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: Earthquakes and Etc. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.052426.1849@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77017@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 05:24:26 GMT Lines: 15 You live near a fault, you get earthquakes.... Lets see, cl california: Chaparal, climate dry. Vegitation fire maintained (prone to frequent fires) No (except in the north) plentiful supply of fresh water... when it does rain you get mud slides.. frequent earthquakes... Now does this sound like a good place to biuild a BIG city? Well.. it could be worse. Barrier Islands for example... 'course we build on them too... Jaguar building houses on shiftings sands to be sold for profit.. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!msuinfo!anchovy.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@anchovy.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: taos noise Date: 9 Mar 1993 05:33:21 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 23 Sender: wilbur@anchovy.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nha71$huk@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: anchovy.cps.msu.edu In article , billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: |> |> I saw a recent show about a noise in England. Everybody |> wanted to know what it was. Thought it might be underground cities, |> UFO's, etc. |> Actually it was a sewer pipe! Go figure ... |> |> Anybody read Above Top Secret? How can you read this book |> and not be convinced? Any skeptical comment out there on this one? |> I agree! That book is one of the top 3 books on the subject. Mandatory reading for anyone even remotely interested in UFO stuff. |> Bill P. |> |> -- |> Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! |> Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X BRICK Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!news From: atemps@zax.acs.calpoly.edu (A Richard Temps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar09.053823.129779@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 05:38:23 GMT References: <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> Sender: news@zeus.calpoly.edu Organization: Academic Computing Services, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Lines: 92 In article <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> te_s227@neptune.kingston.ac.uk writes: > >The subject of UFO's has interested me for some time, however most reports >are spurious and are ordinay or unusual meteorlogical phemonina or aircraft. > >I think that some UFO reports may be caused by the sighting of a hi-tech >alien spacecraft. These are photon rockets using microwave photon radiation >to give thrust through radiation pressure. (photon reaction). >To give reasonable force huge powers are required so to lift 1000kg in >the earths gravitational field would be about 10**13 watt, ie 10TW. >This would give a good acceleration for space travel. > >The theory of the photon rocket is a consequence of the theory of relativity >by A. Einstein. The thrust due to radiation pressure is the value of Poyntings >Vector divided by the velocity of light, see physics textbook. 10TW gives >a thrust of 333KNewtons and will therefore lift 33000 Kg or give a mass of >1000Kg an acceleration of 333 Metres/sec/sec (33g) more than enough to propell >a decent sized spacecraft. > ... >I believe all connection with spiritualism is a fallacy. Genuine sightings >are of a solid object, possibly containing creatures or instruments. >We should attempt to contact them (by radio) if possible. 2 metres FM >would be an easy frequency to start from. ... >I think that these ideas lend some credence to the possibility that our >planet is being occassionally visited by advanced people or their machines >from another solar system, of which there are probably many. > > >Chris Strevens. >"cstrevens@king.ac.uk" > > Chris - Although your commentary seems thought-out, I don't think it corresponds very well with the established body of evidence surrounding the phenomena. For one thing, your theory does not account for the seemingly bizarre maneuvers of these objects, and for their total lack of sound during flight. Also, I do not see how the radiation given off by these craft would effect the alternators in gasoline-powered cars the way they seem to do (unless it was right over it, but that's not the case from what I know from my sources). The acceleration these craft exhibit seem far beyond what any photon-reaction based engine could accomplish without etching big marks into the countryside. At the very least, I'd think it would microwave the land it flies over, and I don't think there is evidence of that happening. Now, in my own opinion, a new force would be responsible for this crafts flight; I have posted an article on my theories on this stuff in the past, but I will outline here real quickly. Basically, this craft is sort of a work-accomplishing magnet. Think of it this way: In electric motors, energy is applied to create fields which make the magnets turn and cause work. In this case, a reverse-diamagnetic field (which I think it most likely generated by a fast-moving ring of plasma) reacts against the hull and, in fact, the entire ship, and moves it in the direction of the field. This thing seems to defy newtonian action/reaction physics, but in theory it seems like a sound loop of energy source < - > reverse field < - > movement of the craft. It has some useful side effects: 1. This field generates movement, and also acts as a field of repulsion around the craft. Think of it as all matter acting like a magnet that is repelled by this field; this causes a vaccuum when the field is fully generated, and this prevents those pesky sonic booms that can make it so annoying to spy on earthlings. 2. This field really screws up electronics stuff. It wouldn't stop a diesel engine, but I think it would fritz up everything else pretty well. 3. The craft works with the properties of intertia just as everything else, EXCEPT one thing: whereas the photon engine you described would be a single point of propulsion, and thus would make it impossible to do those 240 degree mach twelve turns that do so impress us, a diamagnetic field would work on the hull and the inhabitants at the same time. Thus, when the craft turns, you'd turn along with the craft. In essence, the inhabitants inside a UFO could probably pour themselves a glass of coke just fine while doing the most insane and chaotic maneuvers. Now, I won't go into what scarce technical details I've managed to scrounge up on this thing (unless ya ask, of course), but I think it very well covers a lot of the commonly observed phenomena of these things. I don't want to sound like I'm dumping on your theory to favor mine better, but I just had to take this opportunity to toss in my two pennies. Actually, I think the Air Force knows all about this stuff, from the looks of it.... it seems like they have a craft that may very well use these principals. As this craft does not have to react against the magnetic field of the earth, it'd most definitely be space-worthy. As for how a craft would go about stellar travel, I think the literature on 'The Philadelphia Project' would be good material on the topic. Adios for now... - Richard Temps Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov!dzz8420 From: dzz8420@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Dean Zevchek) Subject: Baker Paper Whereabouts? Message-ID: <7MAR199316302383@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio Date: 7 Mar 1993 16:30 EST Lines: 4 A while back, someone posted that "The Baker Paper" provided some great ufology information. I have been unable to find this on any ftp sites... can someone point me in the right direction, or mail me the article/report? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!uflorida!masque From: masque@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: First flame posted to LEN BUCUVALAS Message-ID: <38820@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:10:22 GMT References: <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu> <77078@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Reply-To: masque Organization: University of Florida (ufl.edu) Lines: 9 Nntp-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <77078@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Dear Folks: I want to at this time thank the lady with the blond >hair for coming to my defence and to thank the other people for spelling >my name in the proper manner. >John Winston Dear John: If have a lot of stupid stuff to say, why not say it in ONE post, rather than six? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!uflorida!masque From: masque@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Something in sky in SF Bay Area!? Message-ID: <38821@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:11:29 GMT References: <1993Mar4.221338.25508@odin.corp.sgi.com> <77081@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Reply-To: masque Organization: University of Florida (ufl.edu) Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <77081@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Dear Watchers: I know two people who saw it but they don't believe >in such things. >John Winston Dear Idiot: It's called being normal. Look into it. --Mr. Sarcasm Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7167 alt.alien.visitors:14145 alt.folklore.urban:66286 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix.dt.navy.mil!darwin.sura.net!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!uflorida!masque From: masque@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.folklore.urban Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Message-ID: <38822@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:12:50 GMT References: <76930@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Reply-To: masque Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology Organization: University of Florida (ufl.edu) Lines: 38 Nntp-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article , scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us (S. Mudgett aka little gator) writes... >In <1993Mar8.022341.8297@midway.uchicago.edu>, Ted Frank writes: > >>I had a Jewish girlfriend who broke her ankle. Has anyone else slept with >>someone Jewish who broke a bone, or knows someone who has? >my sister broke her ankle once, and a few years later converted to judaism. >does her husband count? > >and my friend kathy's jewish husband broke his finger. > > >is anyone else sorry i keep answering this sort of question, or know anyone >who is? >-- >-- little gator aka s. mudgett email: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us >-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine I tried to respond to this thread earlier, but interference, no doubt ALIEN in origin, PREVENTED me. NOW... I have SHOCKING news. I dated a Jewish girl who broke her ARM before we ever went out!! Do you SEE what's going ON here?? Obviously an insidious NAZI ALIEN PLOT to EXPERIMENT on JEIWSH FEMALES. Contact the ISRAELI GOV'T. at once. I will attempt to use my own resources. ROSS PEROT needs to know about this, PLUS I can obtain satellite defense access using a HOME TRANSMITTER (based on TESLA's design, RIDICULED by the sceientific establishment!! but it OWRKS)). For more info and TRANSMITTER PLANS (build yourself using $3.80 worth of hardware!) send email. Use the coding system I previously posted on this group before it began being monitored. --Adam Geheimbundler Grand Master, S.I.S. NOT AFFILIATED with Erich Von Daniken University Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!uflorida!masque From: masque@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Life on Saturn Message-ID: <38819@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:08:03 GMT References: <77077@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu Reply-To: masque Organization: University of Florida (ufl.edu) Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <77077@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Dear Thinkers: I believe people are on Saturn but not in the physical >form as we exist. >John Winston. Dear John: how did you guess? --Saturn Man Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!jscsp From: jscsp@acad3.alaska.edu (Chris Star Parker) Subject: Re: taos noise Message-ID: <8MAR199322511741@acad3.alaska.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC Sender: jscsp@acad3.alaska.edu (PARKER CHRIS S) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks References: <1nha71$huk@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 06:51:00 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1nha71$huk@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, wilbur@anchovy.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes... >I agree! That book is one of the top 3 books on the subject. Which brings up a subject I'd been meaning to write about lately. Has anyone heard anything about Matrix I/II/III by Valdamar Valerian? I'm reading all three and think it would me a must read for anyone remotely interested in UFOs, but come to think of it, this is the first book on UFOs I've read. :-/ >Mandatory reading for anyone even remotely interested in UFOs. What are the other top two? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14333 alt.alien.visitors:14148 sci.skeptic:40436 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Ear Candles. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.083920.27799@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77117@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 08:39:20 GMT Lines: 23 In article <77117@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Stick It In Your Ear. >I ever saw Thedra she was sticking something in a person's ear and lighting >it on fire. I thought for sure I had got myself in contact with people who >were practicing witchcraft but then she explained it and everything was OK. "There are more things in heaven and on earth..., than are dreamed of in your philosophy". Anyone that missed Bill Moyers and his Healing and the Mind series on PBS is invited to watch it when it airs again next week... He goes into the "Chi" (life force) and demonstrates how Western medicine is the least prefered healing method for most of the population of the earth, and that we really don't know very much about health here i the West. I never did trust the AMA drug-pushers myself... Jeff- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14334 alt.alien.visitors:14149 sci.skeptic:40437 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Space Person's Opinion of Earth People. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76773@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 08:30:35 GMT Lines: 49 In article <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes: > >My aliens have a low opinion of earthlings, yet come to us to 'experience' >earth life? Sorta reminds me of all the teenagers tryig to act tough, >then going home to familiy , church and high scholastic acheivment. > >Note< we Do harnass the contractions of our female orgainismis for birth. >Labor, I believe they call, it, and none too comfy say the women who have >done it. > >Now, is it INEVITABLE that the earth go going, down the route of ecological >catastrophies? Personally, I do not think so. >Man has always changed his environment, ever since he learned of fire, and of >agriculture. I do not think our species can't come up with answers to >prevent and reverse ecological damage. Try English writing 101, it will help you with double negatives like above... As far as eco-disasters, have you ever heard of OVERPOPULATION? HELLO? Anybody in there??????????????????? We aint never had no 5 billion on the planet, and we ain't going to live to see 10 billion, the planet will die first... You can't live with the Chineese using CFC's if they go democratic on us, the OZONE will cease to exist. Sure, we can live undergound... We will arive at 10 billion population by 2030 if the current rate of birth goes on at the current levels world wide. That means no more forests, because we cut them all down for housing and agri-biz. With no forests, we have no eco-system to speak of, and the earth as we know it dies. Personally, I think the earth is a living, consious organism, and will not allow our infestation to kill it... It will just decide to change it's polar axis, and 5 mile high waves and 300 mile per hour winds will do the rest. Not much will live through that. Then the earth can start over. Sure, humans will survive it, but not our cultures as we know them. We will have to start over. There is evidence that this has happened before. Jeff- >What about the rest of you newage net folk? >Agree? >Disagree? >What would you think newage type thought would have to comment/ say about >man and the environment? >Jaguar Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!graz From: graz@netcom.com (Steve Graziano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: cattle mutilations Message-ID: <1993Mar9.083217.27295@netcom.com> Date: 9 Mar 93 08:32:17 GMT References: <1nh88v$huk@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Brick Wilbur (wilbur@anchovy.cps.msu.edu) wrote: : CNN had a segment on the cattle mutilations about a week ago. And I also heard : that it was in "USA TODAY". : I heard this info BEFORE I checked this group. : I thought the group might have heard even more. : SO fairly reliable sources have made refference to current cattle mutilations : going on in the south. I would also be curious to know about the current theories on how either alien or human connection on the cattle mutilations. Ex. Assuming human beings are the cause, why mutilate a living organism in such a manner? and if alien, same question. Has anybody found a human being mutilated in the same manner? Steve "Just curious" Graziano -- Inet: graz@netcom.com Steve Graziano Xref: icaen sci.energy:14059 alt.alien.visitors:14151 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3097 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!redingtn From: redingtn@athena.mit.edu (Norman H Redington) Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Free Energy and Wimhurst Machines? Date: 9 Mar 1993 09:12:05 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 11 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nhn15INN6nf@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> References: <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> <1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: m14s-010-3.mit.edu Keywords: free energy In article <1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, bss2p@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blues Sponge) writes: |> |> I just did a few library searches and "Wimhurst", "Methernitha", |> "Methernitha", "Testatika" aren't in the database. |> If you have facts (not claims) who this guy is and what type of |> machine this is claimed to be, you should post it here or at |> the phoenix site. |> |> I don't know about the other items, but a Wimshurst machine is a kind of nineteenth century electrostatic generator. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14152 alt.paranormal:6606 talk.religion.newage:14335 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!crash!jvarley From: jvarley@crash.cts.com (J.J. Varley) Subject: Re: Linda Moulton Howe at Penn State University Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA Date: 08 Mar 93 21:49:37 PST Message-ID: <1993Mar08.214937.25419@crash> Summary: Earth Miseries? References: <93066.185053JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Lines: 9 In article <93066.185053JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: >On Saturday, March 20, 1993 at 1:00 pm, 102 Forum Building, University >Park Campus, Penn State, the Penn State UFO Discussion Group will proudly >present a symposium called "Earth Myseries" featuring Linda Moulton Howe. ^^^^^^^^ I don't neet some speaker to tell me that there is Misery on earth. :) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!fang!gator!towers!bluemoon!tdaniel From: tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel) Subject: PLEASE POST THE FAQ Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.use.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 93 21:21:09 EST Lines: 8 Please, please, PLEASE will someone post the FAQ here? To my knowledge it hasn't been posted in many moons! I have asked nicely at least 3 times, WAKE UP! Thanks! This is from tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!fang!gator!towers!bluemoon!tdaniel From: tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel) Subject: THE DAMN FAQ Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.use.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 93 05:54:31 EST Lines: 7 PLEASE POST THE FAQ SOMEBODY! HELLO? POST THE FAQ! This is from tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!ai456 From: ai456@yfn.ysu.edu (Paul S. Troutman) Subject: Re: Police Encounter UFO in Louisville Message-ID: Sender: news@news.ysu.edu (Usenet News Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu Reply-To: ai456@yfn.ysu.edu (Paul S. Troutman) Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH References: <1993Mar7.011518.6487@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 10:04:40 GMT Lines: 22 In a previous article, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) says: >Christopher, > >How did the press respond to the incident? What page & in what newspaper >was this reported in? What tv station(s) reported it & when did they play >it? i.e. towards the end of the program as filler, or did they give it >decent coverage. I saw this breifly on CNN Headline News.. Last week they ran the story and talked with the police officers - they said "we saw something" and talk about a "orange light" that followed the helicopter. CNN then talked to a person who says that it was a kite made of balsawood (If I remembered that correctly) that was on fire and flying through the air.... One of the most sillyist excuses I have ever heard. -- Paul S. Troutman "Read the scene where gravity is pulling me around ai456@yfn.ysu.edu Peel back the mountains peel back the sky Stomp gravity into the floor It's a Man Ray kind of sky" - Gravity, R.E.M. Xref: icaen sci.energy:14063 alt.alien.visitors:14156 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3098 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Free Energy and Wimhurst Machines? Date: 9 Mar 1993 12:46:33 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 28 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ni3j9INN2b1@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>,<1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, bss2p@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blues Sponge) writes: =In article <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de =(Stefan Hartmann (Behse)) writes: =>Don't ask me how the machine works ! I guess it is some kind of a =>capacitive transformer, which drops the High Voltage from this =>Wimhurst machine design down to about 300 Volts DC and 10 Amperes of current. =>The group Methernitha keeps it still a secret, but I gonna post the next =>days all the pictures I have on this machine to get it wider known. =There's a mpeg movie of it 'working' also. Afraid not. What you're talking about is almost certainly Stefan's "computer simulation of a videotape of a working machine." I.e., there's no videotape of the machine, there's a computer simulation of what such a videotape might look like if there were such a machine in the first place. At last report, Stefan *STILL*, after many visits to the site, hasn't seen the machine in operation. It's always down for an upgrade, or off someplace else being demonstrated. In the software field, it would be described as "vaporware." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14157 sci.skeptic:40448 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!enterpoop.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!sifon!jeffjc From: jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE) Subject: Re: Space Person's Opinion of Earth People. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.143609.2667@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> Sender: news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: binkley.cs.mcgill.ca Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada References: <76773@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 14:36:09 GMT Lines: 26 jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) wrote: >bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes: >>Now, is it INEVITABLE that the earth go going, down the route of ecological >>catastrophies? Personally, I do not think so. >>Man has always changed his environment, ever since he learned of fire, and of >>agriculture. I do not think our species can't come up with answers to >>prevent and reverse ecological damage. > > >As far as eco-disasters, have you ever heard of OVERPOPULATION? HELLO? Anybody >in there??????????????????? > >We aint never had no 5 billion on the planet, and we ain't going to live to see >10 billion, the planet will die first... You can't live with the Chineese using >CFC's if they go democratic on us, the OZONE will cease to exist. Sure, we can >live undergound... > >We will arive at 10 billion population by 2030 if the current rate of birth >goes on at the current levels world wide. That means no more forests, because >we cut them all down for housing and agri-biz. With no forests, we have no >eco-system to speak of, and the earth as we know it dies. Personally, I doubt it. Scientists know just about squat about the ozone layer. And nobody knows what man will do in the future nor what the adaptive mechanisms of Nature are capable of. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14339 alt.alien.visitors:14158 sci.skeptic:40449 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sage4e.its.rpi.edu!phillm2 From: phillm2@sage4e.its.rpi.edu (Mark Charles Phillips) Subject: Re: Ear Candles. Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: sage4e.its.rpi.edu Reply-To: phillm2@rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77117@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 15:36:18 GMT Lines: 3 Ironic that sticking a candle in your ear gets rid of wax. Mark P. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14340 alt.alien.visitors:14159 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sage4e.its.rpi.edu!phillm2 From: phillm2@sage4e.its.rpi.edu (Mark Charles Phillips) Subject: Re: Abductions Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: sage4e.its.rpi.edu Reply-To: phillm2@rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. References: <75556@cup.portal.com> <9026.29691@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Mar4.200516.813@netcom.com> <1993Mar9.044341.28779@wam.umd.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 15:44:11 GMT Lines: 13 In article <1993Mar9.044341.28779@wam.umd.edu>, bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes: |> |> My main beef with Mr. Winston is that he just posts. |> You try to talk with him, and he blows you off. |> No debate allowed. |> |> Jaguar |> likes to debate stuff into the groungd.. oops ground... Maybe JW doesn't feel the need to argue... Mark P. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!sage4e.its.rpi.edu!phillm2 From: phillm2@sage4e.its.rpi.edu (Mark Charles Phillips) Subject: Re: Life on Saturn Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: sage4e.its.rpi.edu Reply-To: phillm2@rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. References: <77077@cup.portal.com> <38819@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 15:52:54 GMT Lines: 3 I believe that there may be some mysterious connection between 'Saturn Man' and 'Mr. Sarcasm'. Anyone else agree? Mark P. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14341 alt.alien.visitors:14161 sci.skeptic:40452 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!kzoo!k080093 From: k080093@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Josh N. Vander Berg) Subject: Re: Ear Candles. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.161220.4630@hobbes.kzoo.edu> Organization: Kalamazoo College References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77117@cup.portal.com> <2B9C186D.28275@ics.uci.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 16:12:20 GMT Lines: 22 In article <2B9C186D.28275@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes: >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> The lighted end produces a two-inch flame that creates a vacuum that >>draws impurities from your head. > >I don't think that's the only thing it drew from your head. > Naw, I think the point is that John does not NEED the candles to produce a localized vacuum in the vicinity of his head... :) >-- >Brett J. Vickers >bvickers@ics.uci.edu -josh || Before you judge me take a look at you||Josh Vander Berg||Never stop || || Can't you find something better to do ||k080093@kzoo.edu||asking "why?"|| || Point the finger, slow to understand ||KalamazooCollege||=============|| Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14162 alt.religion.kibology:7181 talk.bizarre:95837 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,talk.bizarre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!rwd4f From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) Subject: Re: Answer Message-ID: <1993Mar9.172649.19038@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <76987@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 17:26:49 GMT Lines: 13 In article <76987@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Thinkers: I make it a point to never argue with a person that >has more than a 4th grade education. Jeff thanks for the word of >encouragement. >John Winston. So, new contest du jour: WHAT DRUGS IS THIS GUY ON? Im sure regular a.r.k or a.a.v readers will have some speculations. My guess is a combination of valium, caffiene, and some inhalant, probably gasoline. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: PLEASE POST THE FAQ Date: 9 Mar 1993 11:05:46 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1niipaINN855@ub.d.umn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel) writes: :Please, please, PLEASE will someone post the FAQ here? To my knowledge :it hasn't been posted in many moons! I have asked nicely at least :3 times, WAKE UP! Thanks! : : This is from : tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com :whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! What FAQ? -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Subject: Aliens Technologically Advanced? Message-ID: <1993Mar9.180132.23055@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 18:01:32 GMT Lines: 34 Gregg is correct in saying that just because a civilization has the capapbility of intersteller travel, it does not mean that all aspects of that civilization's technology is as equally advanced. The areas of technical advancement would depend on the priorities the said civilization is governed by.... EI: Humans are governed by a priority on Freedom, therefore advancing greatly in defense systems and technology directly related to basic living needs. (Cellular phones for communication, Defrosting refrigerators for food storage, microwaves for food preparation, high speed differentials and turbo chargers for transportation, new improvements on old forms of martial arts, automatic weapons for defense.. etc.. etc..) Now what if these alienshave a different priority... Maybe they live in a very crowded society and therefore have developed a great need for being in groups, therefore communications would be advanced. Maybe they are weak physically, tools and robots would be the advancement. The civilization that works very closely together would have less need for weapons than say communication systems and medical aids because of all the diseases a close-knit society creates. The physically weak aliens, if they live in a preditor heavy ecosystem, would want advancement in weapons and tools and less in communications. Therefore, we cannot predict the advantages and disadvantages of an alien race.. Only our own capabilities can be judged. So use Murphy's Law and be prepared for anything.. ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: First flame posted to LEN BUCUVALAS Message-ID: <1993Mar9.174319.880@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 17:43:19 GMT Lines: 23 From article <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu>, by blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu : > In posting <22 Feb 93 19:13:50 GMT Re: Abductions> lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes: > > ^John......you allegedly host your own television talk show on > ^a local san jose stattion yet you expect to have people > ^believe you when you quote from ELEPHANT TAMPONS?!?!?!?!?! > ^Re: Weekly World News, Sun, Enquierer, etc ad nauseum > > That was a disgusting remark Len.. I and many other > woman are deeply offended by making a way off color remark Blah, blah... and she calls Len a chauvanist etc. > a sour taste in my mouth. I just felt that such an obscene flame should > be made an example of. Of course most men wouldn't understand.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And then this! Who's the sexist here, blondie?!?! Obviously you feel it is OK for you to police this group, and yet post the exact same things with impunity. I think you should watch what you say a little more closely. Max Elliott max@megatek.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14345 alt.alien.visitors:14166 alt.religion.kibology:7186 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!rwd4f From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) Subject: Re: Horse's Afterlife. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.173015.19136@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77053@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 17:30:15 GMT Lines: 14 In article <77053@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: The After Life. >Source of information: WEEKLY WORLD NEWS March 16, 1993 page 39. By Dick >Donovan /staff writer. although you probably wouldnt get net access, i think being a wwn staff writer is one of the most pleasant jobs i could think of getting. i guess that a lot of it would probably be boring, having to read through obscure swiss newspapers hoping that some swiss professor said something real stupid you could then distort. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Space Propellant Message-ID: <1993Mar9.182954.24044@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 18:29:54 GMT Lines: 5 Rob, liquid Flouride would be better, plus a ramscoop to pick up the hydrogen in space. Maybe the alien's locomotion is based on gravity..... ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Xref: icaen sci.energy:14070 alt.alien.visitors:14168 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3100 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE!harti From: harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann (Behse)) Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Free Energy and Wimhurst Machines? Date: 9 Mar 1993 18:44:18 GMT Organization: TUBerlin/ZRZ Lines: 42 Message-ID: <1nioi2INNmts@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>,<1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <1ni3j9INN2b1@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de In <1ni3j9INN2b1@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: >In article <1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, bss2p@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Blues Sponge) writes: >=In article <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de >=(Stefan Hartmann (Behse)) writes: >=>Don't ask me how the machine works ! I guess it is some kind of a >=>capacitive transformer, which drops the High Voltage from this >=>Wimhurst machine design down to about 300 Volts DC and 10 Amperes of current. >=>The group Methernitha keeps it still a secret, but I gonna post the next >=>days all the pictures I have on this machine to get it wider known. >=There's a mpeg movie of it 'working' also. >Afraid not. What you're talking about is almost certainly Stefan's "computer >simulation of a videotape of a working machine." I.e., there's no videotape of >the machine, there's a computer simulation of what such a videotape might look Nonsense ! Of course , there is a videotape ! Seems you didn't view it yet ! Have a look at it: phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) in pub/bigflis/perpetu4.exe I digitized the single frames from the videotape and there will be soon a longer MPEG movie of this videotape, where the lightning of the bulb could be better seen.. Methernitha is now working on a 30 KW machine, which you can view by downloading the picture: new30kw.jpg from phoenix.oulu.fi in pub/incoming/free_energy There will be soon also a few more JPEG viewers and all infos I have on free energy machines. So check this site regularly ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Government and Cattle Message-ID: <1993Mar9.184357.24522@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 18:43:57 GMT Lines: 46 eggo@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Round Waffle) writes: ^In article <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu ^writes: ^> ^> The best way for the government to run tests on potential ^>environmental hazards without giving credence that there is a ^>hazard to the community surrounding it and also to cover their ^>tracks is to hide right out in the open. Misdirection by ^>painstaikenly cutting up their test subjects and making it look ^>like aliens. No one would be the wiser. Did you see the movie ^ Let's say the government is indeed testing "environmental hazards" ^(what exactly do you mean by this?) on animals. I think it's safe to say ^they'd test on something a little more inconspicuous (lab rats come to ^mind). Given that cows are dissimilar to humans, biologically (which is ^why they're called "cows"), it would be a waste of the government's time ^and money to work so hard on a cover-up of that scale. It's a lot easier ^to incinerate a bunch of dead mice than to methodically and painstakingly ^cut apart a herd of cattle. ^ ^> ^> ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE ^ ^ ^-- ^+- eggo@titan.ucc.umass.edu --><-- Eat Some Paste -+ ^+- Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, -+ ^+- Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -+ ^+----------------- The Durex Blender Corporation -----------------+ You misunderstand me Eggo. I was talking about how the government tries to find out about the effects of a present environmental hazard without tipping the community off that such a hazard even exists by taking samples from cattles and covering their tracks by making it look like aliens. For example: Electromagnetism from electric lines has been brought to the media's attention as being a potential health risk, but the government denies it... Wouldn't mammal flesh of any kind react the same way to electromagnetic fields.... To figure out what is happening to humans, the anotomy of cattle can be searched for anomolies. Just a guess though... ^^^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: HUMAN? Message-ID: <1993Mar9.185236.24839@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 18:52:36 GMT Lines: 7 Mark: Funny how you separate yourself from the human race. I try to be as objective as possible..... ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!cs!jhussain From: jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu (Jabir Hussain) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens Technologically Advanced? Message-ID: <46252@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 19:54:15 GMT References: <1993Mar9.180132.23055@unlv.edu> Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: magilla.ucsd.edu In article <1993Mar9.180132.23055@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering writes: |> |> Gregg is correct in saying that |> just because a civilization has the |> capapbility of intersteller travel, it |> does not mean that all aspects of that |> civilization's technology is as equally |> advanced. This reminds me of a beautiful science fiction story I read a long time ago. It is called "Saucer of Loneliness" by ???. In it, a woman is 'contacted' by a UFO in public (I think Central Park) and she is hounded for years by the CIA, FBI, etc. who are certain the UFO has told her about secret weapons etc. Turns out the UFO is only an interstellar 'bottle' carrying a message. In this case, a poem transmitted telepathically... So, advanced technology does not only (or necessarily) mean advanced weaponry and advanced hostility. It may even (gasp) mean advanced art, advanced poetry, advanced altruism... -- Jabir Hussain (jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu) [POBox 81852, San Diego CA 92138] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Real Miracles, Sensibly Priced "Leap of Faith" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jabir Hussain (jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu) [POBox 81852, San Diego CA 92138] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Real Miracles, Sensibly Priced "Leap of Faith" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14172 alt.paranormal:6612 alt.conspiracy:23910 alt.freedom.of.information.act:52 sci.geo.geology:3993 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.freedom.of.information.act,sci.geo.geology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!news.Hawaii.Edu!caliban.soest.hawaii.edu!gerard From: gerard@caliban.soest.hawaii.edu (Gerard Fryer) Subject: Re: Mohole Coverup? Message-ID: Sender: news@news.Hawaii.Edu Organization: Scum Of the Earth and Senile Tenured References: <1993Mar7.214429.2327@fuug.fi> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 19:37:00 GMT Lines: 70 In article <1993Mar7.214429.2327@fuug.fi>, an15338@anon.penet.fi (Iskios) writes: |> |> Many of you will recall the Mohole Project. It was an effort to drill a |> well down through the Mohorovicic Discontinuity in the Earth's crust. |> |> The project was abruptly abandoned without a very satisfactory explanation |> of why it failed or was terminated. |> |> There is a persistent rumor that the project was terminated after the |> drill broke through into an empty cavity, and brought up a drill core |> containing some clearly artificial materials resembling nothing known |> to current technology, from several miles down. |> [... all sorts of garbage eliminated ...] The idea of a cavity is ludicrous - it would immediately be obvious in the gravity field, and there is no such anomaly at the old Mohole site. No responders have yet stated the obvious: the de facto descendent of the Mohole project was the Deep Sea Drilling Project, which has since evolved into the Ocean Drilling Program. Technology in the old Mohole days was crude and their chances of drilling to any significant depth were zero. Since then there have been major advances. DSDP/ODP Hole 504B has now been drilled down to 2111m (yes, 2.1 km) below the seafloor, but that seems to be the absolute limit of current technology (so Moho is still a ways to go). That depth was reached only after many (six?) drilling legs, each extending the hole a little further. Here is the report of the last drilling operations at the hole, just a week ago (sorry, no cavities): _______________________________________________________________________ SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING REPORT LEG 148 22 February - 28 February, 1993 JOIDES Resolution continued fishing operations at Hole 504B (1- 13.611 N; 83-43.818 W; water depth 3460 m). The fishing bottom hole assembly run on 21 February pulled out most of the 150 m of junk from the hole, leaving approximately 2-10 m of junk. Two attempts were made to mill the remaining junk but a 20 m zone of either fallen rubble or constricted hole conditions was encountered. Mill #2 broke and left approximately 32 m of junk in the hole. On 25 February, 2nd fishing job and the junk baskets came out completely. Hole 504B was carefully cleaned. It was decided not to try and drill to bottom because of unstable hole conditions. Recovered material includes moderately phyric plagioclase-olivine diabase and rock fell from borehole wall (1966.1 mbsf); moderately phyric plagioclase-olivine and plagioclase-olivine-clinopyroxene diabase rubble, and slickensides (2111.0 mbsf); and rubble of moderately phyric plagioclase-clinopyroxene-olivine basalt and diabase from unknown depth (2111.0 mbsf). Logging began on 26 February. Operations are continuing at Hole 504B. _______________________________________________________________________ [The continuing operations were downhole logging; they ended on March 6. The hole was not extended any deeper.] -- Gerard Fryer | g.fryer@soest.hawaii.edu Department of Geology & Geophysics | School of Ocean & Earth Science & Technology | eppur se muove University of Hawaii at Manoa | -Galileo Honolulu, HI 96822-2285 | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!miller From: miller@cwis.unomaha.edu (Marnie Miller) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Government and Cattle Message-ID: <1993Mar9.193453.29564@news.unomaha.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 19:34:53 GMT References: <1993Mar9.184357.24522@unlv.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Lines: 52 blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: > > > eggo@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Round Waffle) writes: > > ^In article <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu ^writes: > ^> > ^> The best way for the government to run tests on potential > ^>environmental hazards without giving credence that there is a > ^>hazard to the community surrounding it and also to cover their > ^>tracks is to hide right out in the open. Misdirection by > ^>painstaikenly cutting up their test subjects and making it look > ^>like aliens. No one would be the wiser. Did you see the movie > > ^ Let's say the government is indeed testing "environmental hazards" > ^(what exactly do you mean by this?) on animals. I think it's safe to say > ^they'd test on something a little more inconspicuous (lab rats come to > ^mind). Given that cows are dissimilar to humans, biologically (which is > ^why they're called "cows"), it would be a waste of the government's time > ^and money to work so hard on a cover-up of that scale. It's a lot easier > ^to incinerate a bunch of dead mice than to methodically and painstakingly > ^cut apart a herd of cattle. > ^ > ^> > ^> ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE > ^ > ^ > ^-- > ^+- eggo@titan.ucc.umass.edu --><-- Eat Some Paste -+ > ^+- Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, -+ > ^+- Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -+ > ^+----------------- The Durex Blender Corporation -----------------+ > > > You misunderstand me Eggo. I was talking about how the > government tries to find out about the effects of a present > environmental hazard without tipping the community off that such > a hazard even exists by taking samples from cattles and covering > their tracks by making it look like aliens. Not to mention the top secret peroxide tests of the early 90's > For example: Electromagnetism from electric lines has been brought > to the media's attention as being a potential health risk, but > the government denies it... Wouldn't mammal flesh of any kind react > the same way to electromagnetic fields.... To figure out what is > happening to humans, the anotomy of cattle can be searched for anomolies. > Just a guess though... > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: RE: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 20:01:31 GMT Lines: 5 I have a question... How can flesh withstand G-forces accumulated in the accelleration to speed of light? ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar9.201609.28135@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 20:16:09 GMT Lines: 5 Rich- The government craft(s) in question are being stored in a mine close to the Nevada Test Site.... Just thought you should know.... ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!sdcc12!cs!jhussain From: jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu (Jabir Hussain) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Schizophrenic aliens Message-ID: <46254@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: 9 Mar 93 20:07:01 GMT Sender: news@sdcc12.ucsd.edu Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: magilla.ucsd.edu There is one aspect of alien encounter reports that puzzles me. On the one hand, they obviously don't want to be 'discovered', else why not land on the White House lawn and do the 'take me to your leader' bit? On the other hand, they seem incredibly stupid to follow air/space craft at distances where they can be viewed and videotaped w/o problem (Assuming the astronaut/airforce pilot reports are accurate)... -- Jabir Hussain (jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu) [POBox 81852, San Diego CA 92138] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Real Miracles, Sensibly Priced "Leap of Faith" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jabir Hussain (jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu) [POBox 81852, San Diego CA 92138] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Real Miracles, Sensibly Priced "Leap of Faith" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:6613 alt.alien.visitors:14177 sci.skeptic:40468 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: The Selling of the Travis Walton "UFO Abduction" Message-ID: <1993Mar9.224129.14003@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar5.022135.2775@netcom.com> <77079@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 22:41:29 GMT Lines: 29 In article <77079@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Researchers: I have had the opportunity of interviewing Mr. >Harder personally and he is one tough old bird, and to him that >would probably be a compliment. Hello, John. Did you have Jim Harder on your TV show? If so, I'm sorry I missed it! I, too, have met and talked with Jim Harder. And I'd agree that he *is* "one tough old bird." Indeed, he is the "bird" who taught Travis Walton how to "sing." -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Truth is the summit of being: justice is the application of it to affairs. All individual natures stand in a scale, according to the purity of this element in them. The will of the pure runs down from them into other natures, as water runs down from a higher into a lower vessel. This natural force is no more to be withstood, than any other natural force." - Emerson: Essay, "Character" (1844) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Fire in the Sky Message-ID: <1993Mar9.224850.14898@netcom.com> Date: 9 Mar 93 22:48:50 GMT References: <464.2B94621A@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 320 The Selling of the Travis Walton "Abduction" Story: Some Background Information Robert Sheaffer P.O. Box 10441 San Jose, CA 95157 USA March 4, 1993 Australian newspaperman Jeff Wells was a member of the National Enquirer team that "packaged" the Travis Walton abduction story for publication. Walton's story is now the subject of a major motion picture from Paramount, "Fire in the Sky." Wells is one of seven authors of the National Enquirer story "Arizona Man Captured by UFO" published Dec. 16, 1975. Upon his return to Australia, Wells wrote up this insiders' view of the sordid goings-on for his newspaper column, the identities of the participants only thinly disguised. "The kid" is obviously Travis Walton. "The cowboy" is his brother, Duane Walton. "The professor" is Dr. James Harder of Berkeley, at that time a leading figure in APRO, the now-defunct Aerial Phenomena Research Organization, and still a prominent "abductionist." The polygraph examiner is John J. McCarthy, the senior polygraph operator in the state of Arizona. This story was reprinted in the _Skeptical Inquirer_, Vol. 5 Nr. 4 (Summer, 1981), pp. 47-52. "Profitable Nightmare of a Very Unreal Kind" by Jeff Wells (from _The Age_, Melbourne, Australia, 6 January 1979) caption in photo box: "JEFF WELLS recalls his dealings with a pathetic kid whose dream never quite got off the ground." The characters in this UFO story are real even if they appear more like the inventions of a Hollywood hack. A haunted young man, a ruthless cowboy, a strange professor, a hard-drinking psychiatrist, a bunch of reporters and a beautiful girl. All were thrown together in the desert heat by a close encounter of the third kind and maybe they did contribute to some Hollywood thinking. I was there and I can vouch for the motley human cast - but you will have to make up your own mind about the extra-terrestrials with fishbowl heads. Some of the characters are still growing fat repeating their version of the story in the seemingly limitless American market for the bizarre. The so-called facts, the carefully-woven tapersry that has become the "official story" can now be counted as UFO lore, pablum for those who turn their heads to the sky in search of meaning for their lives. I will never get rich on my version and I only tell it because of the UFO madness the papers tell me is sweeping this part of the world. The UFO phenomenon is really rolling here, as it has rolled for many years, and snowballed into juggernaut proportions in other countries where it is very big business. The stronger it gets here the closer the attention that will be paid to so-called classic cases of UFO encounters. You may recognize elements of this story among them. If so, you will realise that my story is a warning that in such cases, even the most celebrated and supposedly well-documented, there is nothing so pragmatic as proof. This incident happened a few years ago and made world headlines. I was working in San Francisco as a bureau man for a national weekly which has grown rich and powerful in catering to the middle-class craving for cancer-cures, Jackie Onassis, Hollywood gossip, psychic predictions, and like ingredients of the crumbling cake that is the American mind. It was naturally a matter of interest that a 22-year-old forestry worker was missing and that six witnesses had passed lie detector tests in saying that he had last been seen running towards a huge UFO. My paper had offered tens of thousands of dollars to anybody who could positively prove that aliens had visited our planet - in the knowledge that exclusive rights could be worth millions. When, five days later, the young man we came to call "the kid" stumbled into a small western town, phoned his brother and claimed he had been kidnapped by the crew of an alien spacecraft we were ready. Within an hour I was on a plane to rendezvous in a desert city with a team of reporters and photographers flying in from Los Angelesand the East Coast. At the desert airport I bumped into one of them, a dapper young Englishman from the L.A. bureau, who briefed me. One reporter was at the cowboy's home talking money; the kid was inside in a state of shock. The office was wiring $1000 to help east the kid's discomfort and a celebrated UFOlogist, a California professor, was being flown in, all expenses paid, to lend a hand. Our immediate task was to bribe the brother with the thousand to shack up with us in a luxury motel on the outskirts of town, no names registered, where the rest of Press who were about to descend and the sheriff, who was calling the whole thing a hoax and demanding that the kid take a lie-detector test, would not bother them. "It isn't going to be easy," said the Englishman as we pocketed our credit cards and headed for our rented Pontiacs. "The brother has taken charge and the brother is some kind of psychopath. The kid is scared to death of him and so is our reporter." The cowboy was no disappointment. He was one of the meanest and toughest-looking men I've ever seen - in his late twenties, a rodeo professional and amateur light-heavyweight fighter, a total abstainer, broad-shouldered, T-shirt packed with muscle, chiselled-down hips, bow legged, eyes full of nails, tense, unpredictable. He leaned against a pick-up truck with a gun rack in the cabin and raked us with beams of cunning and hatred as strong as the flash from the spacecraft that had pole-axed his brother as the witnesses fled in terror. "Nobody is going to laugh at my brother," he said. Nobody wanted to laugh at his brother, we said. We only wanted give his brother a chance to tell his story to somebody who would understand. To prove our bona fides, and to keep away all those other jackals of the press, who would embarrass the kid with foolish questions, we would hide them away and pay the kid a grand to tell his story. If we liked the story, and it could be properly documented, and the kid could pass our lie-detector test, we would open up our cheque books all the way and start talking in five figures. To our relief the cowboy agreed - but not, he said, because of the money, because his brother had a true story to tell which would enlighten the world. Our first sight of the kid was at dinner in the hotel diningroom that night. It was a shock. He sat there mute, pale, twitching like a cornered animal. He was either a brilliant actor or he was in serious funk about something. But the arrival of the professor saved the day. He was as smooth as butter and he soon had the kid eating out of his hand. "You are not alone," he crooned. "There are many people, more than you would think, who have been chosen to meet them." Them? I began to wonder about the professor. The cowboy was so impressed he began to talk about his own UFO experience when he had been chased by a flying saucer through the woods as a child. Within a couple of hours the professor had talked the brothers out of taking the sheriff's polygraph test and into an hypnosis session in his room immediately. It looked as if things were going smoothly enough, with no hint that we were faced with four days of chaos. The next day the office announced that the whole story was to be filmed by a crew from the top-rating CBS muckraker TV show _60 Minutes_. We were to be on guard because CBS was out to shaft us, my editor warned. We were to present a bold front for good footage of dedicated reporters sparing no expense to bring the public the true story of one of the most amazing incidents in recorded history. The kid's fantastic story had been coming out under hypnosis but the brothers had become very conspiratorial with the professor and would speak only to him. [1] The professor seemed to have his own future on the lecture circuit and the paperback bookstands very much in mind and we didn't trust him. So we taped everything and had the CBS crew film the kid's story given under hypnosis. It was a tale of little men with heads like fishbowls and skin like mushrooms. But suddenly the strain began to tell on the kid and he lapsed into sobbing bouts. He was falling apart and so was his story. It necessitated flying in a husband-and-wife team of psychiatrists from Colorado to tranquilize the kid and keep the cowboy from exploding. The kid was a wreck and it was all the psychiatrist could do to get him ready for the lie-detector expert we had lined up. The test lasted an hour and I was in the next room fending off the TV crew when I heard the cowboy scream: "I'll kill the sonofabitch!" The kid had failed the test miserably. The polygraph man said it was the plainest case of lying he'd seen in 20 years but the office was yelling for another expert and a different result [2]. To head that off we had the psychiatrist put the cowboy and the kid through a long session of analysis. Their methods were unique. The next day the four of them disappeared into a room and soon a waiter was headed there with two bottles of cognac. At the end of it the psychiatrists were rolling drunk but they had their story and the brothers were crestfallen. It seemed that the kid's father, who had deserted them as a child, had been a spaceship fanatic and all his life the kid had wanted to ride in a spacecraft. He had seen something out there in the woods, some kind of an eerie light which had triggered a powerful hallucination which might recur at any time. There was no question of any kidnap by any mushroom men. The kid needed medical help and the cowboy swore he would shield him from further harassment. Reports began to filter in that the witnesses' lie detector tests were not much help either - they supported the story that they had all seen the strange light but not that the strange light was identifiable as a spaceship. The CBS crew had left in disgust and I sat down to detail everything that had happened in a 16-page memorandum designed to kill the story. It was all over. I paid the $2000 hotel bill - including a mammoth bar tab to which the psychiatrists had contributed nobly - for the five days and we all scattered to the airport. It had been a lunatic experience from beginning to end, made more disturbing by the fact that on several occasions, with coaxings from the professor, I had almost believed that the story was real. As I drove to the airport I was never so glad to be leaving a city and to this day the whole experience there remains in my memory as some kind of nightmare. As I neared the airport I switched on the car radio and heard familiar voices - the kid, the cowboy, and the professor giving an interview about the kid's shatteing experience on board a flying saucer. A few weeks later I picked up the paper I worked for and found that with the help of the professor it had turned my memorandum into a sensational front-page story. The professor was calling me up demanding tapes for his lectures and the kid was signing contracts for books and TV documentaries. And so another UFO hero was made. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Ground Saucer Watch" Memo on the Walton Incident: Conclusions (undated: probably December, 1975) "Ground Saucer Watch," a pro-UFO organization, was the very first UFO organization on the scene. In cooperation with Dr. J. Allen Hynek of CUFOS, Dr. Lester Stewart of GSW began to interview the Walton family while Travis was still "missing." They immediately smelled a hoax. These are their conclusions, without any changes - RS. 1. Walton never boarded the UFO. This fact is supported by the six witnesses and the polygraph test results. [3] 2. The entire Walton family has had a continual UFO history. The Walton boys have reported observing 10 to 15 separate UFO sightings (very high). 3. When Duane was questioned about his brother's disappearance, he stated that "Travis will be found, that UFO's are friendly." GSW countered, "How do you know Travis will be found?" Duane said "I have a feeling, a strong feeling." GSW asked "If the UFO 'captors' are going to return Travis, will you have a camera to record this great occurrence?" Duane, "No, if I have a camera 'they' will not return." 4. The Walton's mother showed no outward emotion over the 'loss' of Travis. She said that UFO's will not harm her son, he will be returned and that UFO's have been seen by her family many times. 5. The Walton's refused any outside scientific help or anyone who logically doubted the abduction portion of the story. 6. The media and GSW was fair to the witnesses. However, when the story started to 'fall apart' the Waltons would only talk to people who did not doubt the abduction story. 7. APRO became involved and criticized both GSW and Dr. Hynek for taking a negative position on the encounter. 8. The Waltons 'sold' their story to the National Enquirer and the story was completely twisted from the truth. RS NOTES: 1. In other words, James Harder was using hypnosis to lead Travis Walton into "remembering" a proper UFO abduction story. UFOlogists cite the apparent consistencies of these stories as proof that they are supposedly authentic! But here we glimpse the real reason behind the apparent similarities. 2. The very existence of this polygraph session with John J. McCarthy was kept secret by the National Enquirer and by APRO, with McCarthy ordered never to speak about it. The cover-up was revealed by Philip J. Klass in June, 1976. The details of the Walton hoax, and its associated cover-up, can be found in chapters 18-23 of Klass' book _UFOs The Public Deceived_ (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 1983). 3. Apparently GSW thought that in order to have a "genuine" UFO abduction, the UFO would have to land, and pick up its passenger. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Truth is the summit of being: justice is the application of it to affairs. All individual natures stand in a scale, according to the purity of this element in them. The will of the pure runs down from them into other natures, as water runs down from a higher into a lower vessel. This natural force is no more to be withstood, than any other natural force." - Emerson: Essay, "Character" (1844) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14179 alt.paranormal:6615 alt.conspiracy:23921 alt.freedom.of.information.act:53 sci.geo.geology:3994 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.freedom.of.information.act,sci.geo.geology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!alden From: alden@netcom.com (Andrew L. Alden) Subject: Re: Mohole Coverup? Message-ID: <1993Mar9.233147.9300@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 23:31:47 GMT Lines: 14 I don't mind the occasional posting of the anonymous person(?)'s rumor, or legend, as long as it isn't too long. This particular proto-legend is interesting in that it's a modern example of the folklore of miners, who populated the black and noxious world underground with trolls and will-o-the-wisps--albeit with a novel element of The Superior Alien, which is usually assigned a home in the sky. No, this little meme is a cut above the usual. But you know, I keep hearing that benevolent beings from alternate universes have been infiltrating anonymous posting services... --Andrew Alden.........good day! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <21669@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 23:02:26 GMT Lines: 12 It's easy to produce bloodless incisions in a test subject. You must first drain all the blood from the subject. simple, huh? And, this may be done very cleanly, almost painlessly and with absolutely NO mess whatsoever, using simple medical equipment available at a pharmacy. Who might do this you ask? Well, cults are very likely. Think about it. Remove the blood. Drink it and use it in rituals, along with a few assorted other parts. Not very complicated, easily possible, and even likely. Max Elliott max@megatek.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: John Winston, disinformation agent Message-ID: <1993Mar9.230701.5613@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1993Mar4.203914.17684@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 23:07:01 GMT Lines: 8 Yep, that's right. It is important for us to openly acknowledge that JW's best efforts have failed. Very few, if any in a.a.v take him seriously. Most have him in their kill file. (me for one) So, it should be made clear to the responsible parties that JW is a total DUD. Max Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!rtech!amdahl!amdcad!amdint.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Subject: stuff-_-n_-_junk Message-ID: Sender: usenet@amd.com Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 00:02:42 GMT Lines: 21 The aliens have discovered the next dimension, astral dimension. And have developed technology for manipulating it. They travel in the astral and materialize for physical interaction. They look upon us as we would look at a dog. They have taken people and eggs/sperm and created other human colonies of perfect humans. These are trained to help observe the "wild" humans. They cannot contact a central authority without invoking a human-wide reaction. Instead, they have made themselves VERY obvious to all militaries and also to many individuals. They are building a groundswell of support from the inside. They have been forced to be much more active since we developed missiles and nukes. The coming global disaster will allow them to step in and help us out without invoking the negative reaction. There is nothing we can do except wait. It is always their move. Most sightings are rigged by the aliens to convey specific impressions to the human involved. They have discovered brain wave modifiers and can view and direct humans with special implants. When they come, we all get to go to heaven. -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14349 alt.alien.visitors:14183 sci.skeptic:40475 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: The Candle in the Ear. Part 2. Message-ID: <77169@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 17:23:48 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 21 1>+2 Subject: Ear Candles. Part 2. Last night I used the Ear Candle and everything came out OK. I stuck the candle in my ear, with the candle pointing upward and had a person light the candle. It burned just fine and no flame or hot wax dropped down on the side of my face. I could hear a crackling noise which probably was the wax in the candle burning but it may have been the wax in my ear. The air got a little warm in my ear. I got a little smoke in my ear when the candle was transferred to from one ear to the other. It cleaned the wax out of my ears, everything out of my nose and cleaned my sinuses and had an effect on openings going to the eyes from the throat. This all made me think of the old song, COME ON BABY LIGHT MY FIRE. It was a good experience and I recommend it to everyone. John Winston. got a little smoke in my ear when the candle was transferred to from one ear t2w2 Bg#2 4 B 0Roman 10cpigot a little warm in my ear. I got a little smoke in my ear when the candle was transferred to from one ear t Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14350 alt.alien.visitors:14184 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <77171@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 17:37:50 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I'll have to think a while to come up with an aswer of what energy the space people use. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14351 alt.alien.visitors:14185 alt.religion.kibology:7200 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Answer Message-ID: <77172@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 17:43:03 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear People: Well it looks like my computer has the dribbles again. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14352 alt.alien.visitors:14186 alt.religion.kibology:7201 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <77173@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 17:48:11 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear One and All: Oh yes I just remembered. I sent off for a free picture of a UFO but it is one that I have seen before and not suitable to send by Gif. It is sort of small but if you would like one then sent to the following address, Free UFO Photo, send self addressed stamped envelope to P.O. Box 17206, Tuson, AZ. 85710. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14187 alt.paranormal:6617 alt.conspiracy:23928 alt.freedom.of.information.act:54 sci.geo.geology:4000 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.freedom.of.information.act,sci.geo.geology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!granite.ciw.edu!quartz!marton From: marton@quartz.ciw.edu (Fred Marton) Subject: Re: Mohole Coverup? Sender: usenet@granite.ciw.edu Message-ID: <09Mar93.214145.8538@granite.ciw.edu> Date: 09 Mar 93 21:41:45 GMT References: <1993Mar7.214429.2327@fuug.fi> Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW Lines: 16 In article gerard@caliban.soest.hawaii.edu (Gerard Fryer) writes: >were zero. Since then there have been major advances. DSDP/ODP Hole >504B has now been drilled down to 2111m (yes, 2.1 km) below the >seafloor, but that seems to be the absolute limit of current technology >(so Moho is still a ways to go). That depth was reached only after many >(six?) drilling legs, each extending the hole a little further. Here is >the report of the last drilling operations at the hole, just a week >ago (sorry, no cavities): That's it? Only 2111 mbsf? Bummer. I was on Leg 140 (Fall 1991) and we made it down to 2000.4 mbsf before we left. Junk in the Hole has been a bit (no pun intended, but what the hell) of a problem there lately. The Quest for Gabbro at 504B continues... Fred Marton Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.aero.org!usasoc.soc.mil!sparkyfs.erg.sri.com!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!ford.ecn.purdue.edu!unglenie From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1n8lldINNp7n@aludra.usc.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 21:09:29 GMT Lines: 50 Robert J Unglenieks writes: >>The plane believed to have been used in Desert Storm is the TR-3a.... Duane P Mantick writes: > There is some speculation that at least ONE of the Aurora aircraft, >whichever of the (apparently) several different types was flying at the >time, may have indeed made overflights of the middle east during Desert >Storm. The TR3A, while still pretty much under wraps, appears to be a >whole different ballgame, and a much more conventional aircraft than >any of the "Aurora" stuff..... n one of the daily press briefings during the Gulf War, a mention was made of the reconn version of the stealth taking photos. This suggests something on the order of the subsonic TR-3 rather than a hypersonic aircraft. >>Hmmmm...... I seem to recall we funded a production run of an aircraft >>called "aurora" in 1985 or so. It was part of the budget request for the >>A12/SR71 and U-2/TR-1 programs. > ^^^ > The CIA's Blackbirds, known to them as "Oxcart" and to us as >the "A12", were a dead issue by 1968 (unfortunately) and were >replaced by the SR71. They spent YEARS in mothballs out at Palmdale, CA., >and just within the last few years were finally publically acknowledged >and parcelled out to museums. I actually used the reference to the A12 to show how a program could be kept secret for so long. While the A12 (single seat version, later to become the two seat SR71) was decommisioned in 1968 it wasn't publicly disclosed until the early 80's. Keeping something secret for 15 years is incredible. TDC's show last night on the F-117A showed some neat footage of a triangular shaped object on top of a pylon. There was a posting in this newsgroup not long ago about "strange" objects on pylons in "secret" government test sites. The triangular object was a mockup of the stealth's airframe undergoing RCS evaluation. Woooooo..... real UFO stuff...... >>- "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - >>- native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - > Rob, that's an EXCELLENT line.... :-) :-) Oh? Then how about another from Twain: "The new political gospel: Public office is private graft." Rob U -- - Rob Unglenieks REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES - - "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no - - native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] - - (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton. Will Engineer For Food) - Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14354 alt.alien.visitors:14189 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: New Book. Message-ID: <77176@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 18:59:21 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 19 Subject: A Book. Here is a book I think I will send off for this evening. LOST CITIES OF NORTH & CENTRAL AMERICA by David Hatcher Childress. Maverich Archaeologist Childress continues his world-wild-odyssey in quest for the fantastic mysteries of the past. From the jungles of Central America to the deserts of the Southwest.. down the back roads from coast to coast-search for lost Mayan cities and books of gold; discover an ancient canal system in Arizona; climb gigantic pyramids in the Midwest; explore megalithic monuments in New England; and join the astonsihing quest for the lost cities throughout North America. From the wartorn jungles of Guantemala; and Honduras to the deserts, mountains and fields of Mexico, Canada and the U.S.A. Childress takes the reader in serch of sunken ruins, Viking forts, strange tunnel system, living dinosaurs, early Chinese explorers, and fantistic gold treassure. Packed with both early and current maps, photos and illustrations. 598 pages, 6x9 paerback. illustrated. Source of Information: Adventures Unlimited Press, Publishers Network, P.O. Box 22, Stelle, IL USA 60919-9989 Phone No. 815-253-6390. Who knows they may send you a catalog. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7206 alt.alien.visitors:14190 alt.folklore.urban:66428 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!by712 From: by712@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark E. Bradley) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.folklore.urban Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Date: 10 Mar 1993 03:59:39 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1njp3bINN4l2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Mar1.125604@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: by712@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark E. Bradley) NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) says: >BTW, "Voyage to the Center of the Earth" on NBC last night was >incredibly funny. I liked how at the center of the Earth they found a >Bigfootf wearing a Star Trek uniform, and they put a Walkman on him... Journey to the center of the earth only to meet Dr. Klaw. Brrr.... Mark "Go go Gadget NNTP Server!" Xref: icaen sci.energy:14086 alt.alien.visitors:14191 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3101 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Free Energy and Wimhurst Machines? Date: 10 Mar 1993 04:09:21 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 39 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1njplhINNnjj@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1nenk0INN741@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>,<1993Mar9.034950.21273@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <1ni3j9INN2b1@gap.caltech.edu>,<1nioi2INNmts@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1nioi2INNmts@mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>, harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann (Behse)) writes: =>Afraid not. What you're talking about is almost certainly Stefan's "computer =>simulation of a videotape of a working machine." I.e., there's no videotape of =>the machine, there's a computer simulation of what such a videotape might look = =Nonsense ! =Of course , there is a videotape ! Seems you didn't view it yet ! = =Have a look at it: = =phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) in pub/bigflis/perpetu4.exe = =I digitized the single frames from the videotape and there will be soon =a longer MPEG movie of this videotape, where the lightning of the bulb =could be better seen.. Ah, perhaps it's a problem with your command of the English language. In the past, you've always referred to that computer program as a "computer simulation of a videotape," rather than as a "digitized version of a videotape." The two phrases are NOT equivalent. =Methernitha is now working on a 30 KW machine, which you can view by =downloading the picture: new30kw.jpg from phoenix.oulu.fi =in pub/incoming/free_energy = =There will be soon also a few more JPEG viewers and all infos I have =on free energy machines. =So check this site regularly ! By the way, Stefan, I note that you didn't address my other point: Have you yet, in your many visits to the site, actually seen the machine in action? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!boulder!tigger!schiffd From: schiffd@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) Subject: Re: China UfO Message-ID: <1993Mar10.053019.10139@colorado.edu> Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet) Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.cs.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1993Mar7.082039.26660@colorado.edu> <1993Mar9.011719.23480@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 05:30:19 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1993Mar9.011719.23480@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >tigger, > > >>>>>>>>>CHINA > > >>>>Strange UFO sighting > >Short UFO sighting deleted..... > > >Any pictures??????? > >Rod > >-- Sorry Rod, no picture. There was also no mention of what the news source was. I'd imagine, though, that a camera is more of a luxury item in China than here. Dave. From: brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 16:31:08 GMT Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: <15840005@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Organization: HP Mfg. Test Div., Loveland, CO Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!hplvec!brian Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: Lines: 44 I have spent a fair amount of time and energy researching this damn thing (the 500000 year old geode with the "spark plug" inside), and I have the following to offer to the discussion: "In Search Of" showed the X-rays of the object. In my opinion, it was not a "spark plug", but could certainly have been an alien artifact. This artifact is called the Coso artifact because of the location where it was found - the Coso mountains of California. The three people who found it are named in a book called "Secrets of the Lost Races" by Rene Noorgarden (maybe Noorbergen; it's not handy, sorry). It was also written about in a book called "Mysteries of Time and Space", by Brad Steiger. I wrote to Brad Steiger in an attempt to find out what became of the object, but only received promotional literature from his organization. According to "Secrets...", the artifact was taken to the "Charles Ford Society" (no location given, but I would assume it was in California somewhere), an organization that "specializes in investigating unusual things." I checked the master index of societies and organizations in the United States and could find no reference to such an organization. The library did not have one dating to the early 70's that might have contained the information on such a society. I checked with information in several area codes in California near where the artifact was discovered, and could only find a "Charles Ford Company", which I called - it's a department store. Assuming the object is really an alien artifact for a moment, let's think about what it could be. The object is a cylindrical ceramic material with a central magnetic rod which has a small coil attached to one end. Between the end of the cylinder and the coil is a concentric ring like a doughnut. The rod protrudes out the back of the cylinder as well. At the time this was found, no one had heard of room temperature super- conductors. My speculation, again assuming it is real, is that the ceramic material is a superconductor when cooled sufficiently. The embedded magnetic rod with the coil at the end could then, perhaps, be an antenna that would radiate whatever is induced in it. I think a good guess would be that the thing is either an anti-gravity generator or an antenna. I am currently running some experiments with superconductors to see if I can induce any weird effects. I'm an engineer, and I know something about this stuff, but I'll admit that it's just wild guesswork right now. But hey, that's how Edison started too. Brian Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!gmd.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!fuug!anon From: an15494@anon.penet.fi Subject: Message-ID: <1993Mar10.064053.21312@fuug.fi> Sender: anon@fuug.fi (The Anon Administrator) Reply-To: an15494@anon.penet.fi Organization: Anonymous contact service X-Anonymously-To: alt.alien.visitors Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 22:42:40 GMT Lines: 110 Sorry, found this in another newsgroup and couldn't resist! kheyman@seuss.trenton.edu Group Helps Those Abducted by UFOs Feel Less Alienated Miles Corwin What do you do if you are the CIA or were merely dreaming? abducted in your sleep by a group When the aliens implant a tracking of scrawny gray aliens with device in your body, how do you enormous heads, beamed up to a get it out? After you've been spacecraft, placed upon an abducted, what do you tell your examination table, probed with employer when you show up late for enormous needles and lasers, and work? then returned to your bed? If you are concerned about If you live in Southern something such as abduction California, you form a support security, you cannot simply group and share the experience. approach your neighborhood watch But the thorny questions posed at captain for advice. And your these sessions are far more family doctor might be reluctant complex than those discussed at to explore the "scoop marks" left your run-of-the-mill self-help by aliens seeking tissue samples. groups. So abductees from throughout Southern California meet on the How do determine, one man last Sunday of every month and asked at a recent meeting in La discuss these common problems, Crescenta, whether you have been buck each other up and relate abducted by aliens, abducted by abduction adventures. [] During a break in the meeting, at the meeting, Carlson relates Kim Carlson rushes over to the even the most outlandish tales coffeepot for a caffeine jolt with a heartfelt sincerity. before she will answer any questions. She is exhausted, she Many of her abductions, she confides, because she has been says, follow a similar pattern. staying up late every night to She is transported by little gray outwit the aliens who have been men to their spacecraft and placed abducting her in her sleep. on a table, where the aliens Carlson now will not go to bed surround her and study her until 4:30 a.m. -- the time that emotions, her sexuality, her DNA she has determined is the alien makeup and her hand-eye abduction deadline. coordination. She is returned home after about two hours, she says. Carlson delivers the same spiel as any other support-group Carlson has become something devotee. She used to feel alone, of an abduction activist. keeping her feelings bottled up Wherever she goes, she asks inside. But now that she has met strangers if they have been others like herself, she is open abducted or had UFO experiences. and forthcoming about her Just last week, she says abduction experiences. Although earnestly, while shopping at this has done wonders for her Circuit City, she discovered a emotional health, it has been salesman and a warehouseman who tough on her social life. Her both had had intimate experiences boyfriend of five years recently with UFOs. dumped her, telling Carlson: "When you get through this UFO business, Carlson does not know why she give me a call." She shakes her and the others at the meeting are head, raises her palms skyward and the chosen people -- for abduction says: "Like I really have a -- but she has a hunch why the choice." aliens are studying the human race. The little gray men, she Carlson is a still surmises, are attempting to create photographer for the film a new, hybrid race. industry. Like most of the others [] During the session, abductees meetings and complain about discuss a variety of esoteric freeway traffic. But ask them subjects. Snatches of testimony about UFOs, aliens or and random comments create a extraterrestrial abductions, and bizarre conversational mosaic: they launch into lengthy monologues that some might "Did your alien have a sense consider more appropriately of humor?" delivered from a psychiatrist's couch. "At first I thought I was in an elevator, but then I realized I The support group meets at the was in a small craft detaching to home of Yvonne Smith, a a larger craft." hypnotherapist who sees many of the abductees as clients. Through "I know it wasn't a dream hypnosis, she directs their because when I returned, my dog "regression therapy," where they was very hyper and panting and he can re-experience and ultimately usually is very calm." come to terms with the abduction. "There is some sort of work She frequently is asked if the going on between the CIA and an abduction experience is "just a alien faction to develop a California thing," because propulsion technology." residents seem more open to the unorthodox. But abductions and Although some of these random UFO experiences, she says, are comments might seem as if they occurring all over the United come from the lunatic fringe, States and the world. those who attended the meeting did not seem all that peculiar. Many The difference is that of them had the mien of typical Californians are the only ones who suburbanites who struggle with eagerly, enthusiastically and their mortgages, attend PTA publicly talk about it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. *IMPORTANT server security update*, mail to update@anon.penet.fi for details. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14356 alt.alien.visitors:14195 alt.religion.kibology:7217 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!newshost.wcc.govt.nz!kosmos.wcc.govt.nz!quirke_a Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Answer Message-ID: <1993Mar10.195937.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> From: quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Date: 10 Mar 93 19:59:37 NZST References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77172@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access. NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Lines: 12 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear People: Well it looks like my computer has the dribbles again. We call it "the runs" here, John. But why are you blaming the computer for the textual diarrhoea and not the man doing the typing ? -- Tony Quirke, Wellington, New Zealand. Quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."--gene spafford,1992 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!levels.unisa.edu.au!9204943y From: 9204943y@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Bigfoot Picture. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.085548.19875@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 10 Mar 93 08:55:48 +0930 References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <76901@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 6 In article <76901@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Bigfootb Lovers: I haven't come in contact with any old pictures > of Bigfoot lately that are any good. I have seen them before but > haven't come across them lately. Come to think of it, nor have I...... Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14197 alt.conspiracy:23937 sci.skeptic:40483 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!enrique From: enrique@athena.mit.edu (Enrique Navarrete Pedraza) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: FILE: Review of Mexican UFico UFO video - HUFON Date: 10 Mar 1993 10:03:54 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nkeeaINN11i@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> References: <1mincjINN513@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: e51-007-2.mit.edu Hi folks, I think I missed the previous postings on this topic, but if someone is interested in the videos, please do send me email as I can get them. I was in Mexico City at the beginning of this year and I can confirm that the UFO sightings on Dec. 31 and Jan 1st are very well documented, as I happened to watch different footage taken by several news programs which were shown nationwide in Mexico. The sightings were a hot topic during those days, and the major newspapers also contained a large array of photos. The showing of the footage in the major news programs was something very unusual in itself, since news programs do not usually like to get invloved with questionable pieces of news, especially in the relatively conservative Mexican society. The sightings were commented so much by so many people, however, that the newsprograms were expected to report what people were observing. I am sure there is someone in the net who can add something relevant about these incredible sightings, perhaps one of the very few so well documented. As far as the videos are concerned, there is a whole collection, 12 of them so far, covering a long history of sightings by the journalist who is the major authority of UFOs in Mexico. I believe that the January sightings provided the right time for his collection of footage to become available to the public. When I left Mexico the videos were in very high demand. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!ul.ie!9117326 From: 9117326@ul.ie Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Listen to the ark... Message-ID: <20765.2b9bf0b0@ul.ie> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:19:44 GMT Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland Lines: 21 A friend of mine talked to me last night about a book by some Clarke.. I think he means Arthur C. Clarke but it's all about the ark of the covenant and that the ark was actually brought down or just dumped here around 4000 years ago .He was saying that another book is due out this week about the ark explaining governments involvement in this and that this ark holds some shining object as shown IN "INDIANA JONES AND THE RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK".. This object is supposed to be linked with thousands of deaths over the years and has references in alot of religions around the world.. It seems to be also gaining energy and power over the years and it seems that whenever it disappears from it's residing place people start disappearing and strange deaths occur.. It's also supposed to move around every 500 years and it's due this year to move around again.. I'm wondering if anybody would e-mail me some list of books refering directly to the ark or related material.. Pat Healy 9117326@ul.ie ))))))))))))-_-((((((((((((.. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons From: aarons@yang.earlham.edu (Anne Strongcloak) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gripe re:my last post's title, 's all Message-ID: <1993Mar9.215741.22087@yang.earlham.edu> Date: 10 Mar 93 02:57:41 GMT Organization: The Land of Ambiguity Lines: 9 Pardon me for wasting bandwidth, but I dislike our news server! -- Aaron G. Stock, Drawer 1735, Earlham College Richmond, Indiana 47374 aarons@yang.earlham.edu ||| IN%"aarons%earlham.bitnet@uicvm.uic.edu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The desire to |"And in this moment, I need to be needed learn is more | When my self-esteem is sinking, I like to be liked important than the| In this emptiness and fear, I want to be wanted ability to learn. |'Cos I love to be loved, I love to be loved" -Peter Gabriel Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14359 alt.alien.visitors:14200 alt.religion.kibology:7227 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!ai-lab!life.ai.mit.edu!friedman From: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Date: 10 Mar 93 06:10:37 Organization: Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139 Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77173@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nutrimat.gnu.ai.mit.edu In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 10 Mar 93 01:48:11 GMT In article <77173@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |Dear One and All: Oh yes I just remembered. I sent off for a free |picture of a UFO but it is one that I have seen before and not suitable |to send by Gif. It is sort of small but if you would like one then |sent to the following address, Free UFO Photo, send self addressed |stamped envelope to P.O. Box 17206, Tuson, AZ. 85710. I have no joke here. I just like saying `Bigfootf spaceman?'. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14361 alt.alien.visitors:14201 sci.skeptic:40488 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons From: aarons@yang.earlham.edu (Anne Strongcloak) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Eco-disasters; Guavas are nexDIR/REGt!Re: Space Person's View of Humans. Message-ID: <1993Mar9.215218.22086@yang.earlham.edu> Date: 10 Mar 93 02:52:18 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76773@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com> Organization: The Land of Ambiguity Lines: 89 In article <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: > In article <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes: >> >>Now, is it INEVITABLE that the earth go going, down the route of ecological >>catastrophies? Personally, I do not think so. >>Man has always changed his environment, ever since he learned of fire, and of >>agriculture. I do not think our species can't come up with answers to >>prevent and reverse ecological damage. > > Try English writing 101, it will help you with double negatives like above... > Actually, I think that that double negative is in keeping with what he/she/cat (!) believed, and it is a proper use of the double negative. This person/cat is refuting a belief that humans can't save Earth from ourselves. For a guy who claims to dislike people who flame on a.a.v, etc., Jeff, you flame quite a bit yourself. > As far as eco-disasters, have you ever heard of OVERPOPULATION? HELLO? Anybody > in there??????????????????? > > We aint never had no 5 billion on the planet, and we ain't going to live to see > 10 billion, the planet will die first... You can't live with the Chineese using > CFC's if they go democratic on us, the OZONE will cease to exist. Sure, we can > live undergound... I remember reading in the newspaper (Philadelphia Inquirer, "the sleazy" *nquirer, jokes one who works there) that a person in the United States is 30 to 40 times more damaging to Earth than a person living in, say, Chad or Haiti. (European countries didn't fare much better.) I agree with you that overpopulation is a huge problem, but it is directly linked to consumption of resources. What we need to do, among other actions, is reduce our consumption (of energy, wood, etc.) so that we may reduce our toll on the planet. You do touch on that, Jeff; I just wanted to highlight that. > > We will arive at 10 billion population by 2030 if the current rate of birth > goes on at the current levels world wide. That means no more forests, because > we cut them all down for housing and agri-biz. With no forests, we have no > eco-system to speak of, and the earth as we know it dies. Personally, > I think the earth is a living, consious organism, and will not allow our > infestation to kill it... It will just decide to change it's polar axis, > and 5 mile high waves and 300 mile per hour winds will do the rest. Well, I don't know about that, but for a few words about the earth not allowing us to kill off its life, I refer to an interview with Robert Ballard, the man who found the Titanic and Bismarck and who has explored the ocean floor and found life there that survives without sunlight, among other things. Fascinating guy, by the way. (Am I the only person on the VAX who writes that out instead of BTW?!) "The real truth is, Earth will be fine no matter what we do. It'll recover. I mean, we're presently just a skin infection. I mean, the Earth will live long past us. "....[W]hat are we doing? Turning it into asphalt, chopping down the trees. I mean, the rain forests, 80 percent of all the green vegetation on Earth is in 5 percent of the Earth. And we're chopping down 20 million acres a year; in 80 years, zero. It's the lungs of the Earth. It's just like saying, Well, why don't you just cut out your lungs a piece at a time over the next few years? Guess what. So I'm concerned about humans, not the Earth. "I mean, we're committing suicide." [here the interviewer says, "We're stripping the planet of its ability to support us."] "Exactly. Support US [orig. emphasis], not Earth. I mean, Earth will probably like to get rid of us so it can sort of try a new experiment. Say that one failed miserably, let's try something new, let's give guavas a chance next time, let's see how they do." > > Not much will live through that. Then the earth can start over. Sure, > humans will survive it, but not our cultures as we know them. We will > have to start over. There is evidence that this has happened before. > > Jeff- >>Jaguar And now back to our regularly scheduled UFO discussion/debate/flame wars/topics that are unrelated to UFO's or extraterrestrial sentients. -- Aaron G. Stock, Drawer 1735, Earlham College Richmond, Indiana 47374 aarons@yang.earlham.edu ||| IN%"aarons%earlham.bitnet@uicvm.uic.edu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The desire to |"And in this moment, I need to be needed learn is more | When my self-esteem is sinking, I like to be liked important than the| In this emptiness and fear, I want to be wanted ability to learn. |'Cos I love to be loved, I love to be loved" -Peter Gabriel Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14362 alt.alien.visitors:14202 sci.skeptic:40489 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!bsu-ucs.uucp!yang.earlham.edu!aarons From: aarons@yang.earlham.edu (Anne Strongcloak) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Message-ID: <1993Mar9.221123.22088@yang.earlham.edu> Date: 10 Mar 93 03:11:23 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76773@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com> <1993Mar9.215218.22086@yang.earlham.edu> Organization: The Land of Ambiguity Lines: 16 By the way, the source of that interview is: Polak, Maralyn Lois. "Robert Ballard: Deep Thoughts Home From the Sea," Philadelphia Inquirer, [vol. ? no. ?] Sunday, May 17, 1992 Inquirer Magazine, page 11. Based on this interview and on one I read in Omni magazine, I think Ballard is a fascinating character, with a unique view of the world (literally, too!). -- Aaron G. Stock, Drawer 1735, Earlham College Richmond, Indiana 47374 aarons@yang.earlham.edu ||| IN%"aarons%earlham.bitnet@uicvm.uic.edu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The desire to |"And in this moment, I need to be needed learn is more | When my self-esteem is sinking, I like to be liked important than the| In this emptiness and fear, I want to be wanted ability to learn. |'Cos I love to be loved, I love to be loved" -Peter Gabriel Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7228 alt.alien.visitors:14203 alt.folklore.urban:66486 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!nessie!fs1.mcc.ac.uk!zlsiida From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.folklore.urban Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Message-ID: Date: 10 Mar 93 14:56:58 GMT References: <1993Mar1.125604@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov> <76930@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Usenet News System) Organization: Manchester Computing Centre Lines: 13 In article <76930@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: I was Jewish about many lifetimes ago. >John Winston AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I unsubscribed sci.skeptic to lose this guy! -- "No human investigation can be called real science if it cannot be demonstrated mathematically" : Leonardo Da Vinci D.Budd@mcc.ac.uk (via JANET: D.Budd@uk.ac.mcc) Dave Budd,MCC,Oxford Rd,Manchester,England(44|0)61-275-6033 fax061-275-6040 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14204 alt.paranormal:6620 alt.conspiracy:23939 alt.freedom.of.information.act:55 sci.geo.geology:4003 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.freedom.of.information.act,sci.geo.geology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news.crd.ge.com!rdsunx.crd.ge.com!e7sa!groleau From: groleau@e7sa.crd.ge.com (Wes Groleau X7574) Subject: Re: Mohole Coverup? Message-ID: <1993Mar10.145714.22387@crd.ge.com> Sender: usenet@crd.ge.com (Required for NNTP) Nntp-Posting-Host: e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com Organization: GE (Martin Marietta?) References: <1993Mar9.233147.9300@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 14:57:14 GMT Lines: 8 In article <1993Mar9.233147.9300@netcom.com> alden@netcom.com (Andrew L. Alden) writes: > >......................... >But you know, I keep hearing that benevolent beings from alternate >universes have been infiltrating anonymous posting services... That rumor is FALSE. They are NOT benevolent ;-) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14363 alt.alien.visitors:14205 sci.skeptic:40493 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Cattle Mutilations. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.151330.598@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: 10 Mar 93 15:09:29 GMT Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 29 In article <1993Feb28.230137.10757@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes... >In article <76427@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Dear Folks: At the present time we are having a new outbreak of >>cattle mutilations throughout the world. I'll try to report to you >>about this at a later time. >>John Winston. > >I sure as heck hope your sources aren't the usual fish wrappers. ;-) > >FYI..there ARE ongoing reports of cattle mutes in northern Alabama. There >was some UFO sightings not long ago in Elba, Alabama. There's been some >recent activity in southern Colo and it's been tracked down at the moment. > >--New subject-- > >For all you skeptics out there..have you read the Baker paper regarding >Alien Abductions? FASCINATING! Highly recommended. > >Don > >-- ><*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS >dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight >88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net >NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN What are the Baker papers, Don? Can you post them? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!decwrl!concert!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winston, disinformation agent Message-ID: <1993Mar7.192146.7250@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 7 Mar 93 19:21:46 GMT References: <75556@cup.portal.com> <9026.29691@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1993Mar4.203914.17684@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 10 I am a disinformation agent as well, and what you are reading now is not true at all. -- ***************************************************************************** "We can't all be sound. We've got to be the way we're made."---Mark Twain Jason D. "corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu" Corley was found dead earlier this week, but was cloned using terrifying new alien processes invented by Elvis. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: NASA News Message-ID: <1993Mar10.155123.6852@netcom.com> Date: 10 Mar 93 15:51:23 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 59 From netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines Tue, 9 Mar 1993 00:54:00 GMT Newsgroups: sci.space.news Path: netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines From: baalke@kelvin.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Ron Baalke) Subject: Mars Observer Update - 03/08/93 Message-ID: <9MAR199300541984@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov> To: sci-space-news@ames.arc.nasa.gov Followup-To: sci.space News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Keywords: Mars Observer, JPL Sender: digester@news.arc.nasa.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 00:54:00 GMT Approved: sci-space-news@ames.arc.nasa.gov Lines: 32 Forwarded from the Mars Observer Project MARS OBSERVER STATUS REPORT March 8, 1993 4:00 PM PST Flight sequence C7 B is active through shortly before 8:00 AM, Thursday March 18. Activation of C8 containing TCM-3 (Trajectory Correction Maneuver #3) occurs at 8:00 AM, also on March 18. The TCM-3 maneuver itself occurs at 2:00 PM that afternoon. The Flight Team reports that spacecraft subsystems and the instrument payload are performing nominally. The spacecraft is in Array Normal Spin in outer cruise configuration, with uplink and downlink via the High Gain Antenna; uplink at 125 bps, downlink at the 4 K Science and Engineering data rate. The Gamma Ray Spectrometer is taking calibration data through Friday, March 12 at 10:00 AM. Activities this week include a Radio Science Tracking System Calibration Test from 6:10 PM through 8:10 PM this evening. The Launch + 166 Days Star Catalog & Ephemeris Use Uplink Window opens at 5:00 PM tomorrow and extends through 5:00 AM on Thursday. The GDS (Ground Data Systems) Test Readiness Review for Encounter will take place on March 11 from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM in the JPL Main Cafeteria Conference area. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | Walt Disney -- ============================================================ "No creature that is intelligent and with the right values is an alien to me." John Salter ============================================================ Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com ============================================================ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14208 alt.conspiracy:23940 sci.skeptic:40495 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!utcsri!skule.ecf!rosen From: rosen@ecf.toronto.edu (ROSEN Dan) Subject: Re: FILE: Review of Mexican UFico UFO video - HUFON Message-ID: Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility References: <1mincjINN513@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1nkeeaINN11i@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 16:07:17 GMT Lines: 55 In article <1nkeeaINN11i@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> enrique@athena.mit.edu (Enrique Navarrete Pedraza) writes: >Hi folks, I think I missed the previous postings on this topic, >but if someone is interested in the videos, please do send me email >as I can get them. I was in Mexico City at the beginning of this >year and I can confirm that the UFO sightings on Dec. 31 and Jan 1st >are very well documented, as I happened to watch different footage >taken by several news programs which were shown nationwide in Mexico. >The sightings were a hot topic during those days, and the major >newspapers also contained a large array of photos. > >The showing of the footage in the major news programs was something >very unusual in itself, since news programs do not usually like to >get invloved with questionable pieces of news, especially in the >relatively conservative Mexican society. The sightings were this is simply not true. Although there might be a "relatively conservative" tendency in the mexican society, it is most certainly not unusual for this to happen. In fact, during the 70's the main TV group supported the UFOmania very strongly. Do you remember Pedro Ferriz (father)? he was a main anchor-man (person perhaps is more PC) and use to support all the UFO "people from outer space are visiting us", Bermuda triangle cases and lots of other nonsense. His son is now one of the most powerful people in TV nowadays. Now, if you consider TELEVISA (this is the name of the broadcasting company) a good source of information, I must think that this is a joke. You leave me no other choice. :-) :-) As for the mexican society. Well, I thing people in mexico are very gullible in general. So they being conservative has nothing to do. Most people (probably that's a very strong statement, but I'll make it nevertheless) I know either believe in Astrology, Von Daineken, Biorithms, Dowsing (I've heard of seminars on this at the University!), UFOs, Virgin aparitions, and others, or all of them! This really says something about the poor standards of the mexican educational system, specially concerning science...but,hey, this is a completely different ball game, and should be discussed somewhere else. >commented so much by so many people, however, that the newsprograms >were expected to report what people were observing. I am sure there >is someone in the net who can add something relevant about these >incredible sightings, perhaps one of the very few so well documented. > >As far as the videos are concerned, there is a whole collection, 12 >of them so far, covering a long history of sightings by the journalist >who is the major authority of UFOs in Mexico. I believe that the January now, give me a break. Since when is Jaime Mussan (that's the so called expert) an expert in something? >sightings provided the right time for his collection of footage to become >available to the public. When I left Mexico the videos were in very high >demand. ....no wonder. Saludos -Dan. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!bones!rcox From: rcox@bones (Richard Cox) Subject: Carl Sagan's Article Message-ID: Sender: news@csn.org (news) Nntp-Posting-Host: cos.cta.com Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 16:10:07 GMT Lines: 3 In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar10.170151.2800@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 17:01:51 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: > > I have a question... How can flesh withstand G-forces >accumulated in the accelleration to speed of light? Well, ya can't get to the speed of light without infinite energy. But you can get damn close by accelerating at 1G for a long time. If fact, you really do not gain much by using higher accelerations. > ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!nar20 From: nar20@cas.org () Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.172255.11760@cas.org> Sender: usenet@cas.org Reply-To: nar20@cas.org Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service References: <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 17:22:55 GMT Lines: 20 Max Elliot writes: > It's easy to produce bloodless incisions in a test subject. You > must first drain all the blood from the subject. simple, huh? > And, this may be done very cleanly, almost painlessly and with > absolutely NO mess whatsoever, using simple medical equipment > available at a pharmacy. Who might do this you ask? Well, cults > are very likely. Think about it. Remove the blood. Drink it and use > it in rituals, along with a few assorted other parts. Not very > complicated, easily possible, and even likely. I believe the anomaly reported with the bloodless incisions is that the blood vessels have not collapsed as would be expected when the blood is drained by conventional methods. I do not have the source in front of me, but I believe that Linda Moulton Howe provides the detailes in her work, Alien Harvest. Neil Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Message-ID: Date: 10 Mar 93 17:42:06 GMT References: <21669@mindlink.bc.ca> <1993Mar6.003042.22991@ttinews.tti.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 26 sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (Erik Sorgatz) writes: Wasn't there a tv movie about this where the CIA/NSA/BIO-spooks were dropping out of the sky in silent, black helicopters - shooting up a moo'er with some kind of gene spliced virus or something, doing a total blood-suckup on it, snagging a few misc parts with a laser and zooming off?? ... sort of. The movie you're thinking of is "Endangered Species", starring Robert Ulrich, Peter Coyote, Hoyt Axton, and I believe JoBeth Williams. Ulrich plays a burned-out NYC cop who goes off into the hinterlands with his daughter, and runs across a town with a dirty little secret - cattle multilations. Hoyt Axton plays the "man inside" (the town - for the bad guys), JoBeth Williams is the sherrif, and Peter Coyote is commander of the bad guys, doing biowar experiements with the cattle (they steal the cattle parts to avoid having to keep their own, which would be something of a giveaway, as I recall.) Anyway, an interesting movie; its been on the movie channels, and has been slowly making the rounds of late-night TV (I recall it being on one of the NYC stations recently.) Before anyone jumps to any conclusions, the movie post-dates the modern cattle-multilation stories by over a decade... Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: MICAP Message-ID: <593.2B9BFF68@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 9 Mar 93 01:04:04 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 9 Mar 93 01:04:05 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 9 Mar 93 15:10:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/608.0 - MICAP(sm) BBS, Littleton CO Lines: 14 ZDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD? 3 MICAP 3 3 P.O. Box 172 3 3 Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-01723 3 303-429-2654 voice 3 3 303-429-2713 data 3 NOTICE>> 3 *New* 303-933-7184 data 3 Current Data ADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDY Number -- Mike Keithly - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f608.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: HUMAN? Message-ID: <1993Mar10.174858.1263@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1993Mar9.185236.24839@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 17:48:58 GMT Lines: 21 From article <1993Mar9.185236.24839@unlv.edu>, by blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu: > > Mark: Funny how you separate yourself from the human race. > > > I try to be as objective as possible..... That's a good one! Do you do stand up as well? I just feel it is important to exercise my prerogative to expose what I consider destructive postings. You see, in any healthy social community, lying is considered innapropriate and even punishable. There are rules in any community which help that community to be productive and fair. What JW does, although hidden behind a veil of feigned innocence and/or stupidity, is LIE. That's right, he is a liar. Of the worst kind, up there with the TV evangelists. This sort of behaviour is reprehensible and it is our social responsibility to chastise him for it. Max Elliott max@megatek.com > > ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14365 alt.alien.visitors:14217 sci.skeptic:40499 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Answers. Message-ID: <77210@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 06:41:52 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Readers: Read my lips, ear candles are not a joke, although the whole subject is pretty funny. If a tabloid magazine would comment of the comments of own friend Jaguar they might say, Be alert a real Jaguar has excaped from an animal experimental station and is posting to the Net ideas about our environment on a computer to the entire world, stay tuned. Thanks Jeff for you comments. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14366 alt.alien.visitors:14218 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <77211@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 06:45:29 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: I should have spelled the word answer. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 18:59:31 GMT Message-ID: <21847@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet News at rsoft.bc.ca) Lines: 39 > It's easy to produce bloodless incisions in a test subject. You > must first drain all the blood from the subject. simple, huh? > And, this may be done very cleanly, almost painlessly and with > absolutely NO mess whatsoever, using simple medical equipment > available at a pharmacy. Who might do this you ask? Well, cults > are very likely. Think about it. Remove the blood. Drink it and use > it in rituals, along with a few assorted other parts. Not very > complicated, easily possible, and even likely. > Max Elliott max@megatek.com I can accept that as a very logical explanation for an isolated individual cattle corpse laying wasted in the foothils of Ozarks or some place similiar but when I come across credible stories in newspapers like the Toronto Globe & Mail that tell of entire herds being found in this state I have to wonder what organized or disorganized cult or government agency could ever possibly carry on with this activity for the period of time that it has been going on on the scale to which it has been going on and not get caught!? Lets face it there is no aceepted motive, no suspects, no on site evidence other than the corpses, no tracks. Also it seems to me that satanic rituals are used to explain a lot of unexplained phenomenon these days much like the dipleasure of the god's was used to explain events in Greek & Roman times. I hope that more evidence and credible investigators will be able to scientifically investigate the carcasses in the future. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has in fact been witness to such an occurence either through this forum or in private mail. -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Who is it dear? | Don't fear the Reaper, It's a quaint little man from the | Fear your government. village...something about the | reaping!?" | krusty@outb.wimsey.bc.ca ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink!a7975 From: Scott_Leaf@mindlink.bc.ca (Scott Leaf) Subject: Re: John Winston, disinformation agent Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:05:40 GMT Message-ID: <21848@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@deep.rsoft.bc.ca (Usenet News at rsoft.bc.ca) Lines: 18 You hit the nail right on the head when you said most people already have JW in their Kill file. In fact I havnt read one of his messages for months and wouldnt have bothered with him until I saw this new header with "Disinformation Agent Attached". This is trully what he is and he seeks to only make fun of the genuine curiousity of those of us who seek to find the answers to strange occurences. I encourage all those who are new to this forum to also place JW in their Kill files. You wont miss a thing. -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Who is it dear? | Don't fear the Reaper, It's a quaint little man from the | Fear your government. village...something about the | reaping!?" | krusty@outb.wimsey.bc.ca ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Eustacian Candles Message-ID: <1993Mar10.185220.4374@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 18:52:20 GMT Lines: 11 John's report on using ear candles: "...It cleaned the wax out of my ears, everything out of my nose and cleaned my sinuses and had an effect on openings going to the eyes from the throat...." These "candles" seem to clear the Eustacian Tubes. Something that us Las Vegas people need in flu season. ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Carl Sagan's Article Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:32:10 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 22 In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: >In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. > >I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... That's because those of us who can read agree with him. Actually, I didn't read that article, but I've heard him comment on this eslewhere. One interesting point he makes is that adbuction stories like these go back centuries, but that the alleged adbuctors reflect beliefs of the time. Nowadays people think it's space aliens and imagine them doing "scientific experiments" on them; before it was demons and they were tortured their captives. The bottom line remains the same: not a shed of actual evidence. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!gator!towers!bluemoon!tdaniel From: tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel) Subject: Re: PLEASE POST THE FAQ Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.use.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) References: <1niipaINN855@ub.d.umn.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 07:43:34 EST Lines: 25 rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes: > In article tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry Mc > :Please, please, PLEASE will someone post the FAQ here? To my knowledge > :it hasn't been posted in many moons! I have asked nicely at least > :3 times, WAKE UP! Thanks! > : > : This is from > : tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com > :whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! > > What FAQ? > > -- > _______________________________________________________________________ > / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / > / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / > /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ THE ALT.ALIEN.VISITORS FAQ! Jesus christ almighty.... This is from tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: While I have a few moments... :) Message-ID: <1993Mar10.151442.21578@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1mtrcaINNoi8@titan.ucs.umass.edu> Distribution: na,europe,australia Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 15:14:42 GMT Lines: 80 In article <1mtrcaINNoi8@titan.ucs.umass.edu>, cyndal@titan.ucs.umass.edu (MICHELE M STEVENS) writes: > Hmm....cattle and other animal mutilations? Well, there must not >have been too many of them in the southern US because I haven't heard >even a whisper of it until just now reading the newsgroup. Nor have I >heard a thing from Colorado(or wherever else this is happening). Anyone >have pieces of articles from *reputable* papers(ie: NOT The Sun/Globe/ >Examiner/Weekly World News/other trash) relating to any of this? I'd be [more deleted] Michele, the following is an excerpt from a supposedly classified paper regarding UFO's, mutilations, MIB's, etc. " Animal Mutilations and UFO's General Chronology In the middle of 1963, a series of livestock attacks occured in Haskell County, Texas. In a typical case, an Angus bull was found with its throat slashed and a saucer-sized wound in its stomach. The citizenry attributed the attacks to a wild beast of some sort, a "vanishing varmint." As it continued its furtive forays through the Haskell County outback, the bloodluster assumed somewhat more mythic proportions and a new name was destined to endure: The Haskell Rascal. Throughout the following decade, there would be sporadic reports of similar attacks on livestock. These attacks were occasionally described as "mutilations." The most prominent of these infrequent reports was the mutilation death of "Snippy" the horse in southern Colorado in 1967, accompanied by area UFO sightings, a Condon Committee investigation and worldwide press coverage. It was in 1973 that the modern animal mutilation wave can be said to have begun in earnest. That year is generally thought of as the year of the last concerted UFO flap, although there may be reason to question that contention, given the events of two years later. In 1973 and 1974 the majority of the classic mutilatioon reports originated in the central United States. In 1975, an unprecedented onslaught spread across the western two-thirds of the United States. Mutilation reports peaked in that year, accompanied by accounts of UFOs and unidentified helicopters. In 1978, the attacks increased. By 1979, numerous livestock mutilations were occurring in Canada, primarily in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Attacks in the United States leveled off. In 1980, there was an increase in the activity in the United States. Mutilations have been reported less frequently since that year, though this may be due in part to an increased reluctance to report mutilations on the part of ranchers and farmers. The mutilations still continue. Over then thousand animals have died in the United States; although the mutilations have been occurring worldwide, the same circumstances are always present." from "A Situation Report on Our Acquisition of Advanced Technology and Interaction With Alien Cultures - January 1988" by O.H. Krill. Digitized by, and availible from, IllumiNet BBS 4043771141 <0> This is from a 50+ page report that I acquired from an anonymous source about 2 years ago. I don't know how REAL it is or not... but its definitelty good reading for anyone interested in the topic. It DOES contain quite a bit of FACTUAL information that is availible through research. I will attempt to make more of this document availible if there is an interest. I'll most likely post directly to this group as soon as I have the time to upload from diskette. Bill p.s. I will soon need the assistance of any or all of you in a project I'm attempting for a Research Methods Class... A short questionaire on the topic of UFOs, etc. If you would keep an eye out for it and mail a response when you receive it... it would be greatly appreciated. bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!caen!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Fire in the Sky Message-ID: <1993Mar10.154611.22060@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar1.135726.17903@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,<930304.032042.8Y7.rusnews.w165w@garlic.sbs.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 15:46:11 GMT Lines: 24 In article <930304.032042.8Y7.rusnews.w165w@garlic.sbs.com>, system@garlic.sbs.com (Anthony S. Pelliccio) writes: >sxr@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (scott.l.russell) writes: > >> Has anybody seen the movie "Fire in the Sky"? I have not seen it yet but >> would like to hear some comments. What incident is the movie based on? >> Are there any good books or articles on this abduction? >> > >Haven't seen it yet but it's based on an alleged UFO abduction in 1975. >Should be interesting. But, as Calvin says, the surest sign that there's >intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy is that they haven't tried to >contact us. > The possible reason why you haven't seen it is because... ITS_NOT_OUT_YET!! of course there's the sneak previews availible in certain areas... I saw Scent of a Woman a week before its official release. But FITS is not due out until the 12th. Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: <1993Mar10.154938.22218@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: ,<1993Mar4.183647.1220@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 15:49:38 GMT Lines: 50 In article <1993Mar4.183647.1220@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>In article duane@mothra.rose.hp.com (Duane) writes: >>>Greetings, >>> >>> >>> I finally found the information about the 500,000 year old spark plug.... >>> on Feb. 13 1961 in the Cosco(sp) Mountains - near Olancho(sp) California. >>>A couple of Geologists picked up some interesting looking Geo's. Found in one >>>of these Geo's was something strange ... and when these guys finally cut the >>>stone in half they found a perfectly circular section of hard ceramic with a >>>2mm shaft of Bright Metal in its center. the fossils that surounded the find >>>were crustaceans at least 500,000 years old. The piece inside the stone was >>>almost surely man made. Xrays reveled a hexagonal metalic frame with a >>>porcelain insulator and a centrical metal shaft ... some experts claim it is >>>the basic components of a spark plug or some other electronic device. >>> >>> >>>Strange but true ... >> >> I notice you say this is "true" and that you "found the information" >> but you didn't say where! What is your source for this story and >> why do you assume it's true? > >I don't know about "true" or valid, but I remember reading a book that >had photos of the geode, and x-rays showing the interior. And as I recall, >it looked like a spark plug. But I do not remember the name of the book. > >>---peter >> > > >Rich > >payner@netcom.com > > I remember reading about this when I was a kid. Then there was also the story of finding a fossilized footprint or the sole of a shoe or something and in the imprint was a crushed trilobyte [sp?]. The print was dated as being much older than they thought humans were supposed to have existed. I can't, however, name a source for you. Its been many years since I first read that. Bill Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Carl Sagan's Article Message-ID: <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com> Date: 10 Mar 93 20:21:59 GMT References: Organization: BeHereNow Lines: 13 In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: >In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. > >I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... He's beyond his depth on that one. He's no psycologist, and Dr. Mack of Harvard says there is no historical evidence that people have mass hallucinations. Sagan is one of the most likely PAID debunkers, and has been for a very long time... Jeff- PS - yes, I read the article; as usual with his work, I was unimpressed. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!matthews_k From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: <1993Mar10.124451.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 35 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <15840005@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:44:51 GMT Lines: 35 In article <15840005@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>, brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes: > I have spent a fair amount of time and energy researching this damn thing > (the 500000 year old geode with the "spark plug" inside), and I have > the following to offer to the discussion: > part of post deleted... > > According to "Secrets...", the artifact was taken to the "Charles Ford ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Society" ^^^^^^^ This would make a lot more sense if it is read as the "Charles FORT society" as Charles Fort specialized in reporting high-strangeness material. Try that spelling instead. >....organization that "specializes in investigating unusual > things." I checked the master index of societies and organizations > in the United States and could find no reference to such an organization. > The library did not have one dating to the early 70's that might have > contained the information on such a society. I checked with information > in several area codes in California near where the artifact was discovered, > and could only find a "Charles Ford Company", which I called - it's a > department store. > rest of post deleted... ****************************************************** * Kellie M-S // matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu * * "Humor, a difficult concept" Saavik, STII: TWOK * * Member PSSS, Assoc. Member SEFEB & MDEAS * * (if you have to ask, you don't want to know!) * ****************************************************** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14229 sci.skeptic:40507 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix.dt.navy.mil!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Space Person's Opinion of Earth People. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.203757.1989@netcom.com> Date: 10 Mar 93 20:37:57 GMT References: <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com> <1993Mar9.143609.2667@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> Organization: BeHereNow Lines: 24 In article <1993Mar9.143609.2667@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE) writes: >jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) wrote: >>bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes: >>We will arive at 10 billion population by 2030 if the current rate of birth >>goes on at the current levels world wide. That means no more forests, because >>we cut them all down for housing and agri-biz. With no forests, we have no >>eco-system to speak of, and the earth as we know it dies. Personally, > >I doubt it. Scientists know just about squat about the ozone layer. And >nobody knows what man will do in the future nor what the adaptive >mechanisms of Nature are capable of. Well, being up north, you will find out about the depletion of the ozone layer long before it worries me.... My sources say that NASA has long been UNDERREPORTING the depletion of the ozone layer intentionally. So the problem is worse than most people realize. AND, we know that even if we stop releasing CFC's today, the ozone layer will still keep deteriorating for at least 10 years. JEff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!boulder!ucsu!kryton!jai From: jai@kryton.ngdc.noaa.gov (Joy A. Ikelman) Subject: Sagan's Article/Excerpts Message-ID: <1993Mar10.202910.20789@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Originator: jai@kryton Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: kryton.ngdc.noaa.gov Organization: National Geophysical Data Center, NOAA, Boulder, Co Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 20:29:10 GMT Lines: 176 I think the reason that nobody has commented on the Parade article is that nobody saw it. And so, out of the goodness of my heart ;-) I'll include some paragraphs here. I am summarizing most of the article, because frankly, my fingers would go numb from typing the whole thing (and not because I am censoring things). Summaries of text are in brackets: [ ] Disclaimer: Reprinted without permission, but without malice, and without intent to profit. For educational and discussion purposes only. Parade Magazine, 7 March 1993 "What's Really Going On?" by Carl Sagan [Sagan begins by talking about the classic abduction scenario, where a person is roused from bed in a dream-like state to float away into a spacecraft for examination and oftentimes sexual probing.] "You may not remember the incident right away; you might find some period of time unaccountably missing. Because all of this seems so bizarre, you're concerned about your sanity; naturally, you're reluctant to talk to anyone about it. At the same time, the experience is so disturbing that it's hard to keep bottled up forever. It all pours out when you hear similar accounts, or when you're under hypnosis with a sympathetic therapist, or even when you see a picture of an "alien" in one of the many popular magazines and books on UFOs." [Sagan then quotes the Roper poll of 6,000 American adults: 18% report waking up paralyzed, aware of one or more strange beings in the room; 13% report missing time; 10% report the sensation of flying.] "If aliens are not partial to Americans, the number for the whole planet would be more than 100 million people. This means an abduction every few seconds. It's surprising that more of the neighbors haven't noticed..." "Why should beings so advanced in physics and engineering--crossing vast interstellar distances, walking like ghosts through walls--be so backward when it comes to biology? Why go to all the trouble of repeated sexual encounters between aliens and humans? Why not steal a few egg and sperm cells, read the full genetic code and then manufacture as many copies with as many genetic variations as you like? Even we humans--who cannot quickly cross intestellar space or slither through walls--are able to clone cells. The preoccupation with reproduction in these accounts raises a warning flag--especially considering the uneasy balance between sexual freedom and repression that has always characterized the human condition, and the fact that we live in a time fraught with numerous ghastly accounts, both true and false, of childhood sexual abuse." [Sagan then disputes the Roper poll. Then he talks about Betty and Barney Hill and the fact that he listened to tapes of their hypnosis session and could hear the abject terror in Barney Hill's voice. Sagan talks about hallucinations and that 10 to 25 percent of ordinary people have them.] "Such hallucinations may occur to perfectly normal people under ordinary circumstances. But there are various circumstances in which they can be elicited: by a campfire at night, or under great stress, or by prolonged fasting or sleeplessness or sensory deprivation, or through hallucinogens such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, hashish or alcohol. These hallucinations have a vivide and palpable reality." [He reminds us that having hallucinations doesn't mean you are crazy.] "There's a common, although insufficiently well known, psychological syndrome very much like alien abduction: Many people have experienced sleep paralysis. On falling asleep or when waking up--just for a few seconds, or maybe for longer periods--you seem to be paralyzed and acutely anxious. You may feel a weight on your chest, your heartbeat is quick, your breathing labored. You may experience auditory or visual hallucinations--of people, demons, ghosts, animals, or birds. In the right setting, the experience can have "the full force and impact of reality," according to Dr. Robert Baker, a psychologist at the University of Kentucky. Sometimes there's a marked sexual component to the hallucination." "Baker has forcefully argued that these common sleep disturbances are behind many if not most of the alien abduction accounts. (He and others suggest that some abduction claims also are made by fantasy- prone individuals or hoaxers seeking fame and fortune.) Even if no known hallucinations were to fit the alien abduction pattern, it's certain that humans commonly hallucinate. There's considerable doubt about whether extraterrestrials exist and frequently visit our planet. We may argue about details, but the one category of explanation seems much better supported than the other. The main reservation you might then have is: Why do so many people report -this particular- set of hallucinations? Why little gray beings and flying saucers and sexual molestation?" [Sagan talks about traditional stories of demons, incubi, succubi, witches, devils, fairies. Shades of Jacques Vallee.] "Is it possible that people in all times and places occasionally experience vivid, realistic hallucinations, often with sexual content- -with details filled in by the prevailing cultural idioms, sucked out of the Zeitgeist? When everyone knows that gods regularly come down to Earth, we hallucinate gods; when everyone knows about demons, it's incubi and succubi; when fairies are widely believed, we see fairies; when the old myths fade and we begin thinking that alien beings are plausible, then that's where our hypnagogic imagery tends. Snatches of songs or foreign languages, images and stories we witnessed in our childhood can be accurately recalled decades later without any conscious memory of the source. In our everyday life, we effortlessly incorporate cultural motifs and norms and make them our own." "Today aliens are the subject of innumerable science-fiction stories and novels. UFOs are a regular feature of weekly newspapers dedicated to falsification and mystification. One of the highest grossing motion pictures of all time is about aliens very much like those described by abductees. Alien abduction stories were comparatively rare until 1987, when a purported firsthand account with a haunting cover painting of an "alien" became a best seller. It is striking how similar many of the abduction accounts are now, and how little we hear about incubi and fairies. But it might not be altogether surprising that, in our time and society, short, gray aliens with breeding programs on their minds are what we mainly reach for when we must describe these hallucinations." "No one would be happier than I would if we had real evidence of extraterrestrial life. But the issue comes down to the quality of the evidence. Proponents of alien abductions do not ask us to believe on faith, but rather on the strength of their evidence. Surely it our duty to examine the purported evidence closely and skeptically. No anecdotal claim--no matter how sincere, no matter how deeply felt, no matter how exemplary the lives of the attesting citizens--carries much weight on so important a question. As with older UFO cases, anecdotal accounts are subject to irreducible error. This is not a criticsm of those who claim abductions or of those who interrogate them. It is merely a statement of human fallibility." "Where is the physical evidence? Some abductees alleg that aliens stole fetuses from their wombs. This is something that would surely cause a stir among gynecologists, midwives, obstetrical nurses, especially in an age of heightened feminist awareness. But not a single medical record has been produced substantiating such claims." "Some abudctees say that tiny metallic implants were inserted into their bodies--high up their nostrils, for example. But no such implants have been confirmed by physicists or chemists as being of unearthly manufacture. No abductee has filched a page from the captain's logbook or a strange examining instrument, or taken an authentic photograph of the interior of the ship, or come back with detailed scientific information not hitherto known on Earth. These failures surely tell us something." "If indeed the bulk of the alien abduction accounts are really about hallucinations, don't we have before us a matter of supreme importance--touching on our limitations, the ease with which we may be misled, the fashioning of our beliefs, and perhaps even the origins of our religions? There is genuine scientific paydirt in UFOs and alien abductions--but it is, I think, of distinctly terrestrial origin." ---end of article--- OK EVERYBODY. LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14367 alt.alien.visitors:14231 alt.religion.kibology:7240 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,alt.slack Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!rpi!batcomputer!db.TC.Cornell.EDU!mdw From: mdw@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) Subject: Re: Bigfootf spaceman? Message-ID: <1993Mar10.215507.22136@tc.cornell.edu> Sender: news@tc.cornell.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: db.tc.cornell.edu Organization: Linux. It's not just for breakfast anymore. References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77173@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 21:55:07 GMT Lines: 18 In article <77173@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear One and All: Oh yes I just remembered. I sent off for a free >picture of a UFO but it is one that I have seen before and not suitable >to send by Gif. It is sort of small but if you would like one then >sent to the following address, Free UFO Photo, send self addressed >stamped envelope to P.O. Box 17206, Tuson, AZ. 85710. This happens to be the same address that you send $20 to for membership in the Church of the SubGenius. Very sneaky, John. mdw or drill me! -- Matt Welsh, mdw@tc.cornell.edu "What are you doing, Dave?" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Alternate Forms Of Energy Message-ID: <1993Mar10.224615.17052@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar8.212738.21825@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 22:46:15 GMT Lines: 48 In article <1993Mar8.212738.21825@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) writes: > > John, How did they get around the Carnot efficiency >of 70%. Are they using a variation on the Stirling engine >or Vallieumier Heat Pump? Incidently the busses in Utah >are running on external combustion stirling engines. They >are using Hydrogen for the heat end and I think a radiator >for the cool end. My idea (which will be patented in '94) >will be about as efficient as a normal internal combustion >engine but more evironmentally friendly. Do you think >maybe the aliens have learn to use superconductors for >locomotion? They would have limitless energy from cold >fusion as well, I would assume they have it since >Fleischmann has recently discovered it here. Cold fusion may well be a valid concept. But in general, noone has been able to make it work. There are sporadic successfull reports, but they are not usually duplicatable. A team in Japan reported success last year (it was reported in _Science_), but I have heard nothing from them since. Also there are many resons why most physists think it unworkable. And one important result of fusion has been missing, neutrons. But even if it worked as claimed, it looks like a low density power source. And Fleischmann and Ponns did not "discovered" it, they would have invented it (provided that the idea was orininal). Oil is discovered, it is already there, and someone finds it. BTW, something fell to earth in the South Bay area last Tuesday. Unconfirmed reports are that whatever it was struck a local wherehouse and started a fire. And Sunday at about 6:30, as I stepped from my car (looking south from Milpitas), I saw rather odd meteor. It was blue and white, no trail, and no sound. The short arc I saw was about as bright as a boliod I saw about 10 years ago. I wonder if it was another piece of space junk falling to earth? > ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14368 alt.alien.visitors:14233 sci.skeptic:40520 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: Space Person's Opinion of Earth People. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.230555.10950@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <76773@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 23:05:55 GMT Lines: 18 Overpopulation has a nasty way of taking care of itself. As speicies that goes past the carrying capacitiy of its environment will either die back (decrease population) to a amount that can be sustained by the environment, or the population may even crash. (go extinct) Disease, starvation and such are ways of xdecreasing a population. Not pretty. The only question is, how many species will we take with us? Now with humans, we alter our environment. Hard to tell just what exactly c our 'carring capacity' with current resources would be. From that, we have a philosophical problem. Do we, as human, have a right to drive other species into extinction in order to support an ever increasing human population? Jaguar never claimed I could spell..... Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Listen to the ark... Date: 10 Mar 1993 17:05:23 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1nls7jINNbut@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <20765.2b9bf0b0@ul.ie> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <20765.2b9bf0b0@ul.ie> 9117326@ul.ie writes: :I'm wondering if anybody would e-mail me some list of books refering directly :to the ark or related material.. Have you tried the Bible or an English version of the Torah (unless you can read Hebrew, of course). To enlighten you (and others that may be cuious), the Arc of the Covanent is a Man made box. What made it special (especially to Jewish people) is that it contained the Ten Commandments. The BEST sources of information on the Arc are the ones I mentioned above. :Pat Healy 9117326@ul.ie : ))))))))))))-_-((((((((((((.. -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: PLEASE POST THE FAQ Date: 10 Mar 1993 17:14:00 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 37 Message-ID: <1nlsnoINNeni@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1niipaINN855@ub.d.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel) writes: :rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes: : :> In article tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry Mc :> :Please, please, PLEASE will someone post the FAQ here? To my knowledge :> :it hasn't been posted in many moons! I have asked nicely at least :> :3 times, WAKE UP! Thanks! :> : :> : This is from :> : tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com :> :whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! :> :> What FAQ? :> :> -- :> _______________________________________________________________________ :> / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / :> / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / :> /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ : :THE ALT.ALIEN.VISITORS FAQ! Jesus christ almighty.... You seem to have missed my point. There is no FAQ that I am aware of for this group. The only question I hear asked frquently is how to put JW in their kill-file. : This is from : tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com :whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu Subject: What the...?!! Message-ID: <1993Mar10.230215.13619@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 23:02:15 GMT Lines: 37 In RE: Human?, Max Elliott max@megatek.com writes: ^From article <1993Mar9.185236.24839@unlv.edu>, by blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu: ^> ^> Mark: Funny how you separate yourself from the human race. ^> ^> ^> I try to be as objective as possible..... ^ That's a good one! Do you do stand up as well? I just feel it is important ^ to exercise my prerogative to expose what I consider destructive postings. ^ You see, in any healthy social community, lying is considered innapropriate ^ and even punishable. There are rules in any community which help that ^ community to be productive and fair. What JW does, although hidden behind ^ a veil of feigned innocence and/or stupidity, is LIE. That's right, he is ^ a liar. Of the worst kind, up there with the TV evangelists. This sort of ^ behaviour is reprehensible and it is our social responsibility to chastise ^ him for it. ^ Max Elliott max@megatek.com ^> ^> ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE What the heck are you tlaking about? I simply wished to answer an email to me from Mark who incidently the Post Master can't find... What is this about lying? When I write hypothetical assumptions I do it in the third person to be as objective as possible.. And what is this about me standing up? Oh I can stand up on my good leg allright... walking around is another matter though....How is this a destructive posting to answer another person's question... Why bring up John Winston? Do you think he fabricated me?! Not!!! Look at the path and email me (no flames please) to find out if I'm really an honest to goodness person... Other than that I don't understand what you are saying Max..... ^^^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csn!stortek!LSTC2VM.stortek.com!HOLFELTZ From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com Subject: Re: Aliens Technologically Advanced? Message-ID: <16B8DB4BA.HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> Sender: usenet@stortek.com Nntp-Posting-Host: lstc2vm.stortek.com Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering References: <1993Mar9.180132.23055@unlv.edu> <46252@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:51:03 GMT Lines: 40 In article <46252@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jhussain@cs.ucsd.edu (Jabir Hussain) writes: > >In article <1993Mar9.180132.23055@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering writes: >|> >|> Gregg is correct in saying that >|> just because a civilization has the >|> capapbility of intersteller travel, it >|> does not mean that all aspects of that >|> civilization's technology is as equally >|> advanced. > > (snip snip snip) beautiful science fiction story .... > >So, advanced technology does not only (or necessarily) mean advanced weaponry >and advanced hostility. It may even (gasp) mean advanced art, advanced poetry, >advanced altruism... > It's not the advanced technology that bothers me. It's that there is no guarantee they are advanced socially. Technology can be reproduced with little or no understanding; but social developement--that takes awhile. If ET life span is longer, I'd expect them to be scientifically advanced, for individuals could work longer on a specific project. Definitely an advantage. However, with longer life span, I'd acspect a less develope societal environment--namely there would be less generation turnover--hence less change. A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land, +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably | | not your's either; and | | only mine, when authorized! | | | | Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csn!stortek!LSTC2VM.stortek.com!HOLFELTZ From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com Subject: Re: Life=Pain&Death Message-ID: <16B8DB2BA.HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> Sender: usenet@stortek.com Nntp-Posting-Host: lstc2vm.stortek.com Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering References: <1993Mar8.210143.20857@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:42:31 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1993Mar8.210143.20857@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) writes: > >chroma@toad.com (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') writes: > >^In article <1993Mar3.220855.22336@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >^>^As a thought: how much difference would it make to human culture if we >^>^could neither die, nor feel pain? >^> >^> We wouldn't exist since everything dies (entropic effect) and >^>if we had no feelings we would not know we were hungry or be stimulated in any ^way. Everything is stimulatecd or it isn't alive. >^> > In such old writings like old religion sacred books there is > evidence that humans can have much longer lifespans. It's just all >the pollution, violence, and diseases that keep us down. If the >aliens see us as a future threat, wouldn't they want us to stay the >same? Maybe introvene a little to ensure our lifespans stay short >so that an individual will not have enough time to amass the knowledge >to really get us out to the stars? OR FOOD, or <.........> (fill in the blank)! Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14239 alt.conspiracy:23953 sci.skeptic:40522 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!enrique From: enrique@athena.mit.edu (Enrique Navarrete Pedraza) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: FILE: Review of Mexican UFico UFO video - HUFON Date: 11 Mar 1993 00:13:21 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 89 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nm071INNaim@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> References: <1mincjINN513@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1nkeeaINN11i@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: galen.mit.edu In article , rosen@ecf.toronto.edu (ROSEN Dan) writes: |> In article <1nkeeaINN11i@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> enrique@athena.mit.edu (Enrique Navarrete Pedraza) writes: |> >Hi folks, I think I missed the previous postings on this topic, |> >but if someone is interested in the videos, please do send me email |> >as I can get them. I was in Mexico City at the beginning of this |> >year and I can confirm that the UFO sightings on Dec. 31 and Jan 1st |> >are very well documented, as I happened to watch different footage |> >taken by several news programs which were shown nationwide in Mexico. |> >The sightings were a hot topic during those days, and the major |> >newspapers also contained a large array of photos. |> > |> >The showing of the footage in the major news programs was something |> >very unusual in itself, since news programs do not usually like to |> >get invloved with questionable pieces of news, especially in the |> >relatively conservative Mexican society. The sightings were |> |> this is simply not true. Although there might be a "relatively |> conservative" tendency in the mexican society, it is most certainly not |> unusual for this to happen. In fact, during the 70's the main TV group |> supported the UFOmania very strongly. Do you remember Pedro Ferriz (father)? |> he was a main anchor-man (person perhaps is more PC) and use to support |> all the UFO "people from outer space are visiting us", Bermuda triangle |> cases and lots of other nonsense. His son is now one of the most powerful |> people in TV nowadays. Now, if you consider TELEVISA (this is the name |> of the broadcasting company) a good source of information, I must think |> that this is a joke. You leave me no other choice. :-) :-) |> |> As for the mexican society. Well, I thing people in mexico are very gullible |> in general. So they being conservative has nothing to do. Most people |> (probably that's a very strong statement, but I'll make it nevertheless) |> I know either believe in Astrology, Von Daineken, Biorithms, Dowsing (I've |> heard of seminars on this at the University!), UFOs, Virgin aparitions, and others, or all of them! This really says something about the poor standards |> of the mexican educational system, specially concerning science...but,hey, |> this is a completely different ball game, and should be discussed somewhere |> else. |> >commented so much by so many people, however, that the newsprograms |> >were expected to report what people were observing. I am sure there |> >is someone in the net who can add something relevant about these |> >incredible sightings, perhaps one of the very few so well documented. |> > |> >As far as the videos are concerned, there is a whole collection, 12 |> >of them so far, covering a long history of sightings by the journalist |> >who is the major authority of UFOs in Mexico. I believe that the January |> |> now, give me a break. Since when is Jaime Mussan (that's the so called |> expert) an expert in something? |> |> >sightings provided the right time for his collection of footage to become |> >available to the public. When I left Mexico the videos were in very high |> >demand. |> |> ....no wonder. |> |> Saludos |> |> -Dan. --------------------------------------------------- Now let me get something straight, folks. I never said or implied that Televisa was my source of information. I only mentioned having watched newscasts and reading newspapers that REPORTED the widespread sightings which at the time were just that, plain NEWS. Nothing was added to the newsreports to make them sensational, they were outstanding by themselves. Now, this is VERY DIFFERENT from TV PROGRAMS and books EXPRESSELY DONE by the people Dan mentions (ie. Pedro Ferriz, Erich von Daenicken and the like) to strongly SUPPORT the UFOmania in Mexico, as Dan himself says. I never brought these pople into the discussion precisely because they are actually associated with a very biased encouragment of the UFOmania, so they cannot be taken very seriously. One thing is Pedro Ferriz in a UFO TV program SPECULATING on the Bermuda Triangule and what not, and another very different thing is newsprograms (by Televisa as well as by the goverment network) and newspapers not even close to Televisa REPORTING the sightings along with other NEWS and showing the easily identifiable streets of Mexico City where people were standing in crowds, stopping all traffic, to gaze at the sky. This followed by lots of footage on the sightings themselves, which is a bit different than drawing charts of the Bermuda Triangule in a UFO TV program, I suppose. About Jaime Maussan, the producer of the videos, Dan and myself might have different opinions. Mine comes directly from a close friend that was present in some of the filmings. Unlike Pedro Ferriz, Jaime Maussan does not come up with any story/explanation about UFO sightings that he wants you to believe. He shows you his videos with date and location and that's it, you believe whatever you like. Now, if Virgin aparitions rank in the category of UFO sightings, as Dan suggests, then half the world is worshipping UFOs. Have a nice day everybody. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!decwrl!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Carl Sagan's Article Message-ID: <1993Mar11.001248.26593@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 11 Mar 93 00:12:48 GMT References: Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Richard, I read the article................coming from MJ7 (7 of 12 that is):-) it's not surprising that he takes this position. At any rate, I think that magazines that publish this sort of disinformation should also publish the other side of the story as well, you know a pro & con article. There is no balance when things like this are published. It is a crock. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Humans Interesting? Message-ID: <1993Mar10.165143.22892@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar4.185023.13273@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 16:51:43 GMT Lines: 215 In article <1993Mar4.185023.13273@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >In article payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > >^In article <1993Mar3.012106.7244@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu ^writes: >^> I'ld like to start a debate about weather or not >^>aliens would find us interesting enough to go through >^>the trouble of visiting our planet and risk their lives >^>in the effort to obtain information about us... > >^If the abduction claims are correct, than it is *our* lives that >^they are willing to risk, not to mention what they are said to do >^to cattle. > > Not nessecarily... If our government got their hands on an >alien, worse will be done to it. At least abductees are returned most >of the time..... An alien captured by the Gov. will not be let go >unless they can cut a deal or escape... > Yet another excerpt from the Krill Papers: " The Origin and Meaning of: KRLL KRYL O. H. KRLL O. H. CRIL O. H. KRILL The KRILL papers seemingly came out of nowhere and have stirred up a small hornets nest of speculation. Who is O. H. Krill? Is the information correct? Are parts of the text correct and parts incorrect? Where did the papers come from? I'm going to answer SOME of those questions in this file. When the aliens landed at Holloman AFB in the 60's a basic communication was established between the United States Government and the aliens. During this communication a basic agreement was reached which was the precursor for the formal treaty and the diplomatic relations which followed. The aliens left a hostage with the United States as a pledge of fulfillment of their part of the agreement. The name of that hostage was KRLL and was sometimes spelled KRYL. I will refer to him as KRLL as this was the spelling used in the MAJESTY documents which I saw. This hostage furnished much information about the aliens which became the foundation of the "YELLOW BOOK" that was completed from informatioon obtained from the "GUESTS" at a later date. In order that this information becirculated and discussed among the military and the scientific community a pseudonym was coined as a code for information which had originated from KRLL. The code name for KRLL was Cril. The initials O. H. stand for "ORIGINAL HOSTAGE" All information thus circulated from the source KRLL was said to be authored by O. H. Cril. The information was usually of scientific or seemingly occult nature and was sanitized so that no inference to an alien race or culture occurred. This was done so that feedback and recommendations could be gleaned from those experts who were not privy to the secret. It was also used to pass technology from the aliens into the defense contracting community and the U. S. Space program. KRLL became ill after a few years and almost died but was nursed by a physician who eventually became the government expert on alien medicine and pathology. My information is that KRLL did at some later date die. The pseudonym continued to be used for the same purpose for many years and may or may not be in use at this time. The KRILL papers must have been authored by someone in the government or military who knew this information because the author O. H. Krill is an obvious take-off on O. H. Cril and thus on KRLL. I do not know who the author is and I do not know if the material is directly from KRLL or not. BUT IT IS APPARENT THAT WHOEVER O. H. KRILL MAY BE HE DID KNOW THE STORY OF KRLL. In my opinion the origin of the material will most probably be the object of much speculation. I cannot comment on the material which covers information that I have never seen before, however I can and will say that much of it is correct and agrees with the information that I have already released. I never saw the KRILL papers before in my life until the Sysop of Paranet RHO called my attention to them in a file on that board. This occurred only a few days before Christmas and I uploaded them to Ted Markley as soon as I could. He informed me however that he had already obtained them from another source. Bill Cooper" from "A Situational Report on Our Acquisition of Advanced Technology and Interaction With Alien Cultures - January 1988" By: O. H. KRILL Digitized by, and availible from, IllumiNet BBS - 4043771141 <0> Again... none of this is my own material. Just some files that I came across in passing [actually picking through disks of an ex-air force buddy of mine.] It _DOES_ however state that there has been contact and even an Alien "hostage" of sorts. Although the truth of the tale is up for grabs. > > Huwoman was a little quirk of mine. Remind me to put a smiley >face next to a joke the next time. And our biology should be evidence >enough... We have an extra stomach called the ependix (spelling?) that >is worthless for us but works the same way as a gizzard does on a chicken >or the second stomach on the cow, and that is to help digest vegetable >matter and seeds. Um.... correct me if i'm wrong but the appendix serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. It's more like the "tail" that we maintain for our entire lives but don't use. Eventually they will disappear with lack of use [if you believe in evolution]. Think also of the eyes of some sea creatures who live in the deep, deep ocean. They have gone blind or have "evolved" with no eyes whatsoever because they have no need for them in the dark of the abyss. >Also, our teeth are flat and more useful for grinding >than tearing, ask any dentist that. And the little incisors in front >could simply have been a product of evolution as we began to prey >on those less smart vegetarians. > Being OMNIVORES [much like bears] we maintain teeth that have multiple purposes. If all of our teeth were flat as you claim, we would be HERBIVORES like cattle and similar livestock. If they were all sharp and cutting, we'd be CARNIVORES only [as per the Tyrannosaurus Rex and the Allosaur [sp?]. ] Omnivores [bears, dogs, primates in general, etc.] have both types of teeth - cutting and ripping like the canines and incisors [toward the front of your mouth] - grinding and crushing like the molars [the rear of your bite structure]. Using your own words... "ask any dentist that"... and he'll tell you more or less what I said. I've spent too long in a dentist's chair to _NOT_ know about teeth. >^>How many animals of today can trully say that they have drastically >^>climbed the ecological food change of Earth? > Along the same note... how many can you name that have nearly if not entirely ceased all evolutionary change since first recorded... or ever [as far as scientists can be sure]. tortise[sp?], shark [the perfect eating machine - completely evolved], certain insects, and some reptiles [kimodo dragon to name one.] >^Animals, almost by definition it would seem, cannot speak. > > Not in our tongue at least. But their biology and evolutionary >chains do speak for them. > how do you explain whale-song, dolphin-chatter, and the ability of primates to learn modified sign language [ok... that one is a learned response]. > >^> We are the only ones >^>who came all the way from being eaten by all preditors >^>to eating all preditors. > >^Us or the "huwoman"? Do you mean that we have become predators? > > Yes. Our behavior exhibits preditory instincts. War is not >done by vegetarians amonst themselves... You might use mating fights >but those aren't trully wars... They are simply tests for dominance and >to ensure the healthiest gene pool. Now many preditors will war with >each other. EI: A pack of Hyenas guard their territory fiercely. So >does a pride of lions. Wolves are more diplomatic and usually settle >their disputes by having the leaders fight each other (something we should >adopt?). The very fact that our appendix (spelling again?) is useless and potentially harmful to us should prove that we have abandoned our >ancestral vegetarianism for a more daptable omnivorous stance. > >^> This evolutionary leap is very amazing >^>if you stop to think... > >^Is it? > > Of course it is... Check the backgrounds of all the animals >and tell me where one has become a top-of-the-chain preditor when their >ancestors were low-on-the-chain prey. That in itself shows our uniqueness. > > >^>An alien biologist would think it interestesting too. > >^Other posters have posted that there is no reason for ETs to come >^here, the nasty smelly humans would just spoil their party. I tend >^to agree with you, although I cannot give any sound reason why this >^must be true. How can you discount out of hand that they are looking >^for new food sources, another planet to colonize, etc... and could >^care less about and local animals, including us. > >^> ^^^^^^^BLONDIE > > > I am not discounting other reasons why they would come down here... >I simply gave one reason why they would. And yes they would be concerned >about us unless they were Very biologically different in which case, they >most likely wouldn't find the environment on our planet very hospitable >for their kind of lifeform. > > >^Rich > >^payner@netcom.com > > > > ^^^^^^^BLONDIE One large reason they[ET's] might have to study us would be the threat that we may evolve [either genetically or technologically] to the point where we would become a threat to their current status of life. Sort of the same reason why we spy on other countries... just to make sure they don't surge ahead of us. Bill Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14370 alt.alien.visitors:14242 sci.skeptic:40523 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!adagio.panasonic.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Eco-disasters; Guavas are nexDIR/REGt!Re: Space Person's View of Humans. Date: 11 Mar 1993 00:13:48 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 47 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nm07sINNg3a@gap.caltech.edu> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76773@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.043146.27873@wam.umd.edu> <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com>,<1993Mar9.215218.22086@yang.earlham.edu> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article <1993Mar9.215218.22086@yang.earlham.edu>, aarons@yang.earlham.edu (Anne Strongcloak) writes: =In article <1993Mar9.083035.26999@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: => As far as eco-disasters, have you ever heard of OVERPOPULATION? HELLO? =>Anybody in there??????????????????? => =>We aint never had no 5 billion on the planet, and we ain't going to live to =>see 10 billion, the planet will die first... Gee. Malthus made a similar observation some 150 years ago (or, more accurately, Malthusians made such a claim based on Malthus' writings). Except the numbers used were considerably smaller than 5 billion. If you're going to make such an assertion, you would do well to provide evidence that there are reasons why YOUR particular assertion is different from those of the past. = I remember reading in the newspaper (Philadelphia Inquirer, "the =sleazy" *nquirer, jokes one who works there) that a person in the United States =is 30 to 40 times more damaging to Earth than a person living in, say, Chad or =Haiti. (European countries didn't fare much better.) I agree with you that =overpopulation is a huge problem, but it is directly linked to consumption of =resources. What we need to do, among other actions, is reduce our =consumption (of energy, wood, etc.) so that we may reduce our toll on the =planet. You do touch on that, Jeff; I just wanted to highlight that. But remember that reduction in consumption of resources doesn't necessarily mean reduction in standard of living. That's what engineering is all about. Of course, many of those demanding a catastrophic reduction in human population (e.g., Alan McGowen from sci.environment's demand that human population be reduced by 90% in the next 150 years), AND that we go back to what amounts to either subsistence farming or a hunter/gatherer technology, tend to ignore the fact that a reduction in population, if accompanied by a reduction in technology, runs a substantial chance of increasing the pressure on the environment. = "The real truth is, Earth will be fine no matter what we do. = It'll recover. I mean, we're presently just a skin infection. I = mean, the Earth will live long past us. Not necessarily, but it appears likely. Might take a few billion years to develop another sentient species, though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Message-ID: <1993Mar10.170241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 25 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 00:02:41 GMT Lines: 25 In article <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: > In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: >>In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. >> >>I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... > > He's beyond his depth on that one. He's no psycologist, and Dr. Mack of Harvard > says there is no historical evidence that people have mass hallucinations. > > Sagan is one of the most likely PAID debunkers, and has been for a very > long time... > > Jeff- He must have been paid or otherwise convinced, because I have not known him previously to employ such SLOPPY science! To use the results of a 6,000 subject survey, and blithely extrapolate it to global magnitude -- producing the non-credible figure of over 100 million abductees (it was obviously SUPPOSED to be non-credible) -- is pure rubbish! He should be ashamed of himself. Lou Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Carl Sagan's Article Message-ID: <1993Mar11.004428.28814@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 00:44:28 GMT Lines: 46 In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: >In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. > >I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... Then dear old peter: >>That's because those of us who can read agree with him. Actually, >> I didn't read that article, but I've heard him comment on this >> eslewhere. >> One interesting point he makes is that adbuction stories like >> these go back centuries, but that the alleged adbuctors reflect >> beliefs of the time. Nowadays people think it's space aliens >> and imagine them doing "scientific experiments" on them; before >> it was demons and they were tortured their captives. >> The bottom line remains the same: not a shed of actual evidence. >>>---peter peter, Actually if you think about this clearly & without prejudice, it would make just as much sense that these abductions have been happening for centuries mabye longer. As technology & our awarness rise, more plausible explanations as to whom is responsible for these acts becomes more clear or clouded, depending on how you look at the situation. The old man upstairs will always keep us guessing, on a plethora of issues. It keeps us interested in life, no what I mean? Life must be oh so boring for you & your ilk, must be a burden having all the answers to life mysteries. Rod Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: First flame posted to LEN BUCUVALAS Message-ID: <1993Mar10.185758.24760@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 18:57:58 GMT Lines: 43 In article <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >In posting <22 Feb 93 19:13:50 GMT Re: Abductions> lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes: > >^John......you allegedly host your own television talk show on >^a local san jose stattion yet you expect to have people >^believe you when you quote from ELEPHANT TAMPONS?!?!?!?!?! >^Re: Weekly World News, Sun, Enquierer, etc ad nauseum > > That was a disgusting remark Len.. I and many other >woman are deeply offended by making a way off color remark >about a very personal feminine matter. If you wish to call >grocery store rags trash then just say it.. Leave the trully >male chauvanistic and perverted obscenities out of it! > [more deleted] > >^John GET LOST! It's not working! You are failing. You have >^failed. Your agenda of disbelief promotion has deflated and >^fallen back into your lap. Go back to your masters puppy dog! > > Failed at what? He seems to be doing OK IMHO. See what I mean >when I stated that I hate flames. They're nonproductive and leave >a sour taste in my mouth. I just felt that such an obscene flame should >be made an example of. Of course most men wouldn't understand.... > > ^^^^^^BLONDIE > Hypocracy Alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! first she said that the comment about "Elephant-sized Feminine Sanitary Articles" was male-chauvanistic and obscene. Then she undercuts her own moral foundation by making the comment in the last paragraph "Of course most men wouldn't understand....". Blondie... c'mon... was that REALLY necessary? Not to begin a discussion here that would be better suited for one of the rec.love groups... but... You claim to have such an open mind... then why degrade yourself with such bigotted drivel? Why stoop to the level of those you find inferior? Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Sagan vs. A Legitimate Psychiatrist Message-ID: <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 47 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 00:14:24 GMT Lines: 47 Concerning Carl Sagan's article, he is indeed out of his field and out of his depth. Compare what he wrote (apparently without doing even the most cursory research) with an article that appeared in "The Atlantic Monthly" in August 1991. It was written by Dr. J.S. Gordon, who TEACHES PSYCHIATRY at Georgetown University. Title of the article: "The UFO Experience." Dr. Gordon writes, in part, " Three medical colleagues made me realize that there were aspects of the UFO phenomenon in which I should take a professional interest. A psychiatrist told me about a patient of hers, "a high-functioning woman professional,' who began to suffer anxiety attacks after seeing the face of the "alien" on the cover of Whitley Strieber's book COMMUNION> Under hypnosis and in spontaneous "flashbacks" she had recalled multiple encounters with and gynecological exams by similar-appearing "aliens." A radiation oncologist who was a senior consultant to the French government's National Space Center described several people he had examined who had seemingly suffered the effects of radiation, including burns, after having witnessed "craft that fly at incredibly high speeds." Finally, a high-ranking European public-health official explained...that she herself had been abducted. These physicians appeared perfectly normal, and all of them were convinced of the reality of a phenomenon that I regarded as evidence of psychopathology... I wasn't in a position to decide whether extraterrestrials exist...But clearly *something* had happened to these people, something powerful, strange, and transformative."... Dr. Gordon began interviewing people who claimed to have had abductions by aliens, and his opinion was: "...it seems fair to say that the vast majority of these people just aren't crazy. However incredible their UFO experience seems, and whatever it might actually be, it is not in any obvious way the produce of serious psychopathology...These UFO experiencers do not have the obvious thought disorder -- the loose associations and blocked mental functioning -- of the schizophrenic. Aside from their UFO experiences...they don't have ideas that could be called particularly odd or paranoid...Nor do most of these people appear particularly "fantasy prone," as some have suggested UFO experiencers would be. " The contrast between Dr. Gordon's report and Sagan's --- whatever it is, personal bias, disinformation, anything but 'science' -- is quite striking. Lou Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14371 alt.alien.visitors:14247 alt.religion.kibology:7247 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!pitt.edu!swhst1 From: swhst1+@pitt.edu (Steven W Herer) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Followups. Message-ID: <5655@blue.cis.pitt.edu> Date: 11 Mar 93 00:28:25 GMT References: <76607@cup.portal.com> Sender: news+@pitt.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 8 Is there any truth to the guy's story that "Fire in the Sky" is based on? Just wondering. Anyone with information concerning this topic please email me. Steve Thanks in advance Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Space Person's Opinion of Earth People Message-ID: <1993Mar10.191707.25451@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar3.204808.18386@unlv.edu>, Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:17:07 GMT Lines: 26 In article , gslars@staff.tc.umn.edu (Greg Larson) writes: >In article <1993Mar3.204808.18386@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >> >> This is possible.... But they must have the same bilogical make-up >>since they would be reveiled as soon as they go to the hospital. Or >>are our doctors aliens too? Not likely since people like me are being >>misdiagnosed by inept physicians. I have a hard time seeing the kind of >>"body takeover" shown in movies. It isn't biologically sound.... I >>also think it's highly unlikely that aliens will be exactly like us.. >>There are too many different ecological variables. So if They are among us >>how are they keeping it secret? > >There is one way they can be sort of indirectly among us. They can either >clone humans, extract fetuses, or grow their own from egg and sperm. >They raise the young humans in their alien culture, and train them >extensively in some human culture. They can then effectively serve >as spies for the aliens, without the fear of being exposed as such. > >Greg Larson Why would they not just have a physician of their own on the planet in a safe-haven-area so that they may have some form of medical coverage while "on tour" on Earth?!? Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: <1993Mar10.192350.25679@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu>, Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:23:50 GMT Lines: 20 In article , robart@agora.rain.com (Hu Man) writes: >In article <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >> They also found a battery in one of the pyramids too.... > > > Was it an Everready Energizer? this would not be unusual as the Romans had health spas of sorts where one would go if they had arthritic-type ailments and they would be submersed in sea water baths that held electric eels for a shock-type stimulus. science in that era was not as poor as one might think. Someone had to come up with the engineering feats that are the Pyramids of Egypt and the Aquaducts of Rome. They had running water and a sewer system in Rome... hell... both of them are still working today [that which hasn't been replaced by modern methods for further sanitary sake. If their engineering skills were such... why not their scientific ability? Bill Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14372 alt.alien.visitors:14250 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: UFOs on Madison Ave. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.193049.25893@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <64264@cup.portal.com>,<76897@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:30:49 GMT Lines: 46 In article <76897@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Subject: Extraterrestrials on Madison Avenue. > In a recent major ad compaign by Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC), the message >was simple: The dinners in a suburban (KFC), restaurant saw an alien craft >(the audience only sees the air turbulence, bright lights and sound effects) >outside in the parking lot, but the taste of their new greasy, drug-fed >skinless chicken was even more spectacular. It's as if KFC admit the UFO >existence as a secondary spectacle to their new menu item. By the way, how >do you breed a skinless chicken anyway? I don't think its a question of how to BREED them... its how to RAISE them. They're tentacle-lickin' good!!! > McDonalds, a mega-million dollar giant has an alien message as well. In a >popular ad, cartoon characters beam some of McDonalds finest burgers on to >one of their space ships. A cute commercial appealing to the 3-11 year old >crowd mostly, but nonetheless, the space visitors are the stars of the ad. >Do they have a McDonalds restaurant >in the Pleiades? yes... over 1 trillion light years served > Let's not forget General Motors and their new Buick atomobile ad campaign >where Crop Circles are slyly used as part of the graphic design in a logo >sequence. Sublinimal, you might say, forget that. This commercial leaves >nothing to the subconscious. It is plain for all to see that are aware and >interested in the phenomena. E.T. tm Designed the Buick Logo... uh huh... > Even Bob Oechsler, a former NASA mission specialist believes that there is a >subliminal program by the government being conducted to conditon and prepare >the masses to the reality of an alien presence as depicted in a NYNEX ad, >the New York based yellow pages, which shows a flying saucer parked on top >of the Cup and Saucer coffee shop. The message is "If it's out there, it's >in here NYNEX." And you thought Cops were bad with doughnuts... >John Winston. Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Message-ID: <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 19:40:54 GMT Lines: 21 In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: >The subject says it all. I have a article here that claims there's a UFO >base in Lake Ontario, and that people have witnessed these UFOs flying in >and out of the water. So, I was wondering if there is anymore news on >this, or is it just another hoax or something else? I really don't >believe there are bases in Lake Ontario, but I'm sure there have been >some real sightings. A base is just.. well.. too unbelievable. > >Titanium Knight There's a Book I have read bits and pieces of called "The Great Lakes Triangle". It deals with both the unexplained sightings of UFOs and the unexplained disappearances of vessels of all sorts in the area. I'll see if I can dig it up and post excerpts that I find prudent. There was one that stuck in my mind as interesting... the disappearance of the Edmund Fitzgerald - as per the song of a similar title. A HUGE freighter that was lost in one of the lakes... no wreckage was ever found. I'm not even sure if a single survivor was found either. Bill Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14373 alt.alien.visitors:14252 sci.skeptic:40532 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Fire In The Sky. Message-ID: <77237@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 18:44:50 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 110 1>+P$''''' (Subject: What's Travis Walton Been Doing. If your like me you may have been wondering what Travis Walton has been doing the last 18 years since his being taken up by a UFO. As you probably know the movie Fire From the Sky will be coming out this friday dealing with that subject, so here's some information about what Travis has been up to;.......A logger abducted 18 years ago by a UFO has been re-living the nightmare ever since - and now his real-life drama is hitting the big screen in a blockbuster movie. Travis Walton's terrifying brush with aliens - first brought to light in a spectacular 1976 EXAMINER story - is recounted in the movie Fire In The Sky, starring D.B. Sweeney as Walton and James Garner as Sheriff Frank Watters, who investigated his disappearance. Walton, of Snowflake, Arizona, hid from the world for 10 lonely years after his horrific encounter on November 5, 1975, emotionally battered by public ridicule and disbelief. But then SOMETHING he still can't explain compelled him to come out of the woodwork. "It was more than coincidence," says Tracy Torne, the film's screenwriter and co-producer. "I looked up Walton in the Arizona directory almost 10 years to the day after the incident. "Later, I discovered he'd had no phone for the previous decade because he refused to talk about his experience. But he'd had one installed just two days before my call!" Walton was 22 when he was blasted by a bolt of light from a flying saucer hovering above an Arizona forest. Six of his co-workers watched in eerie astonishment - then panicked and sped off in a truck, afraid for their lives. Skeptical police officers accused the six pals of murder when Walton disappeared without a trace. But then he suddenly turned up five days later - clean and groomed, and babbling about his incredible adventure. "My life hasn't been the same since," says Walton, now married and the father of four children who spent years being ridiculed by their pals and schoolmates. "I've had years of people thinking I'm a liar, years of horrifying dreams and nightmarish memories. "If I had to do it again, I'd either stay in the truck or keep quiet about it afterward. All in all, I've lost badly from this thing." Walton and the other loggers were riding home from work with their foreman, Michael Rogers, in the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest. "Someone yelled: "There's a UFO!" recalls Rogers. "Even before I stopped, Travis was out of the cah." A greenish-blue flash then bounced off Rogers' windshield and lit up the forest. Then he saw Walton falling backward. The terrified men sped off in the truck, but when they turned around and came back - Walton was nowhere to be found! Searchers use dogs and a helicopter to comb the area for a week. Police accused the loggers of murdering Walton, but lie detector tests backed up their incredible UFO tale. And then Walton, himself, showed up five days later - with an even more bizarre story about what happened inside the spaceship. "When I woke up, I thought I was in the hospital," He says. "I could hear people moving around. "Then I looked around and saw these three creatures. They were only about 5 feet tall and didn't look human. They looked like unborn fetuses with chalky white skin and no hair." In a panic, Walton knocked the creatures back with his arm and jumped off the table. "They ran out the door," he says. "I went out the same door, but went the opposite way down a hall and into a round room. "Then a man came in. The first creatures didn't look human, but his guy looked like a man. He had a helmet on and all he did was smile and motion to me." The man led him to a hangar-like area in the ship that contained other saucers. Several other people put a mask on Walton's face and he blacked out. "The next thing I remember is waking up on the pavement and watching the craft zoom off," he says. "Now, I'm not sure if they really helped me. Maybe I was injured by getting too close ot the craft, and they healed me. But I don't want to ever see a UFO again!" by Arthur Michael. JW So I don't know what to think of that. Source of Information: March 16, 1993/EXAMINER Page 9. John Winston. is hitting the big screen in a blockbuster moviPwP B+xxxxxxWxxkxC xxxW xa xKxFx=xn xS x xb xx@xBxx@xBx 0Roman 10cpiork. "It was more than coincidence," says Tracy Torne, the film's screenwriter and co-producer. "I loo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Date: 10 Mar 1993 20:41:17 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 44 Message-ID: <1nm8sdINN7kb@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: :In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: :>The subject says it all. I have a article here that claims there's a UFO :>base in Lake Ontario, and that people have witnessed these UFOs flying in :>and out of the water. So, I was wondering if there is anymore news on :>this, or is it just another hoax or something else? I really don't :>believe there are bases in Lake Ontario, but I'm sure there have been :>some real sightings. A base is just.. well.. too unbelievable. :> :>Titanium Knight : : There's a Book I have read bits and pieces of called "The Great Lakes :Triangle". It deals with both the unexplained sightings of UFOs and the :unexplained disappearances of vessels of all sorts in the area. I'll see if I :can dig it up and post excerpts that I find prudent. There was one that stuck :in my mind as interesting... the disappearance of the Edmund Fitzgerald - as :per the song of a similar title. A HUGE freighter that was lost in one of the :lakes... no wreckage was ever found. I'm not even sure if a single survivor :was found either. I'm afraid you're wrong on that point. I'm in Duluth, where the Edmund Fitzgerald last left before it sunk. At a museum here, they have underwater pictures of the wreckage (from Couseau I believe - sorry if I misspelled that). The wreakage was indeed found. The ship left in december, the worst month for sailing because of very bad weather. There was another ship that had it on radar on one pass, but by the next it was gone. It was fully loaded with taconite (sp?) (or iron ore) and probably was on the top of a wave and broke in half (as indeed the model of the wrekage at the museum shows). One very possible explanation for missing vessles in the Great Lakes (and specifically Superior) is the large iron ore deposits. These have the effect of bending the Earth magnetic field, and thus altering compas reading. In bad weather, such as the Fitzgerald was in, it can mean the difference between life and death. >Bill -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14374 alt.alien.visitors:14254 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Magnetic field detector. Message-ID: <1993Mar10.201718.27540@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <74832@cup.portal.com> <9003.8103@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> <1lrsfkINNr8u@werple.apana.org.au>,<9063.25212@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 20:17:18 GMT Lines: 23 In article <9063.25212@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>, lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) writes: >In article <1lrsfkINNr8u@werple.apana.org.au> zik@zikzak.apana.org.au (Michael Saleeba [Zik]) writes: > > [various BS deleted to save space] >> > >OK!!! So SUE ME!!! I used an acronym for a term that is not >defined by that acronym! I never pretended to be an >engineer....Geeeesh! > >In many stores across AMERICA you can find "electromagnetic >field detectors"......END OF LINE. DONT BELIEVE IT? GO OUT AND >BUY ONE! GOOD NIGHT IRENE! There was an article in an electronics magazine regarding electromagnetic field generators and how to build them... the article is about 15 years old or so but could be used to interfere with radio/television transmission/reception fairly well in a localized area [a few houses or the whole cable company if placed by their transmitter.] I'll see if I can find the article again. Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: First flame posted to LEN BUCUVALAS Message-ID: <1993Mar10.204850.28137@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar4.192406.14546@unlv.edu>, Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 20:48:50 GMT Lines: 10 In article , phillm2@vccnorthd.its.rpi.edu (Mark Charles Phillips) writes: >Blondie, you've got a lot of guts. > >Mark P. Mark, you're just horny. Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: RADIO WAVES Message-ID: <1993Mar10.215918.28913@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 21:59:18 GMT Lines: 38 In article <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1rs@dct.ac.uk writes: >HELLO EARTHBEINGS. > >MY NAME IS BILLY I HEAR RADIO WAVES IN MY HEAD. > >I WAS WONDERING IF ANY ONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM. > >IT MAY SEEM PRETTY FUNNY TO YOU PEOPLE BUT I CAN HONESTLY LISTEN TO THE RADIO > >IN MY HEAD WITHOUT THE USE OF A TRANSISTOR. > >IT IS VERY ANNOYING WHEN YOU ARE WALKING ABOUT LISTENING TO A CERTAIN STATION >AND YOU WALK UNDER A BUILDING AS I CAN ONLY NHEAR IN LONG WAVE > >MY FAVOURITE STATION IS ATLANTIC 252 AS I CAN GET A CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION IF >I STICK MY FINGER UP MY NOSE. > > >IS THIS ALIEN INTERVENTION OF SOME KIND......... > > > > >OR AM I JUST GIBBERING. > >ATLANTIC 252 > Um... I don't know if this will scare you... but there is no ATLANTIC 252 listed in the station master directory I have by my terminal. Nothing even close... there was, however, a plane that went down in the Bermuda Triangle about 17 years ago with the call sign Atlantic Two-Five-Two... It was lost and never recovered. No survivors. No Wreckage. Nothing. Not even the black box survived. I think this might be a little bigger than you think, bub. Bill Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Humans Interesting? Message-ID: Date: 11 Mar 93 03:53:02 GMT References: <1993Mar3.012106.7244@unlv.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 33 blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: Assume we evolved on this planet from vegetarian primates to today's human or huwoman. How many animals of today can trully say that they have drastically climbed the ecological food change of Earth? We are the only ones who came all the way from being eaten by all preditors to eating all preditors. ... actually, human-kind is more interesting because they managed to break the "meat-cycle", through agriculture. That is, rather than having to go where the food is, humans can grow food, stay in one place, and build cities. (We don't have to eat predators at all - indeed, the most eaten animals are domesticated non-predators.) Intelligence doesn't necessarily beget city-building (e.g. dolphins); reshaping the environment is the key. The plough done it all, really. This evolutionary leap is very amazing if you stop to think... An alien biologist would think it interestesting too. ... I would think that sociologists (or maybe exo-anthropologists) would be more interested. Humans are pretty dull biologically, except for the brain. Humans are not the strongest, nor the fastest, nor the biggest animals, but we do seem to be the most effective tool-users. Humans are not the only species that kills its own, but we do it a lot, and sometimes for non-obvious reasons (for instance, serial killers.) On the other hand, humans seem to have a knack for *not* killing, too, when it suits them -- looking at this century, with two all-out industrial wars in the first half, why not another in the second half? An odd bunch, we are. Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!sdc!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <1993Mar8.144644.11544@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc Organization: Carl Pellonpaa Fan Club - South Chapter References: <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 14:46:44 GMT Lines: 13 Rick Pavek writes: >... >Just why _do_ they guard Groom Lake and Tonapah with burly guards with >authorization to use prejudgicial deadly force...? They keep saying >that there is nothing there, right? If there's nothing going on, >why is it the most heavily secured place in the nation? > Ever accidently walk into a "red zone" (nuclear weapons storage area) on a SAC base? Even with an Air Force uniform on, the best thing you can do is immediately lie down on the ground and freeze before the APs wax your tail. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!sdc!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <1993Mar8.145954.12065@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc Organization: Carl Pellonpaa Fan Club - South Chapter References: <1993Mar3.195425.19636@netcom.com> <1n8l9mINNofv@aludra.usc.edu> <1993Mar6.015843.16702@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 14:59:54 GMT Lines: 9 In article <1993Mar6.015843.16702@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >... >Odds ARE, it's exactly what we think it is, a scramjet vertical takeoff >aircraft. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hmm. Where'd you get that from? Even "Aviation Leak" hasn't mentioned that, or did I miss an article? Jeff Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csn!stortek!icemaker!eldenbrg From: eldenbrg@icemaker.com (Dave Eldenburg) Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Message-ID: <1993Mar11.020213.1752@stortek.com> Sender: usenet@stortek.com Nntp-Posting-Host: icemaker.stortek.com Reply-To: eldenbrg@icemaker.com Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. References: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 02:02:13 GMT Lines: 9 My Jewish wife broke MY arm not long ago... Think about that!!! --- ============================================================================ Dave Eldenburg Iceberg - LSVL 4 *** Insert humorious message here *** (303) 673-3737 Dave_Eldenburg@stortek.com ============================================================================ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien Weapon On Earth? Message-ID: Date: 11 Mar 93 04:47:48 GMT References: <1993Feb19.101345@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> <32383@toad.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 63 chroma@toad.com (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') writes: Now if you just wanted to rattle the Earthlings badly and give spin-off religions a big boost and play psychological warfare games then AIDS is great. ... nah. Something with direct brain effects would be better, something like syphilis (which used to be a relatively quick-killer, by the way), which affects the brain (maybe the hypothetical disease would do something interesting, like inducing killing rages.) Whom gods destroy, they first send madness. If you wanted to do social engineering and convince people, the loosening of sexual behavior mores in the 1960s was a big mistake a slow-spreading, hard-to-fix disease is a great thing. ... the free-love chaos isn't really from the 1960's, its from the 1970's (though everybody in the 1970's though they were emulating what went on in the 1960's.) Anyway, HIV has been isolated as far back as 1958 (that is, a blood sample taken in 1958 has been found to contain the aids virus), so unless somebody was prescient about what would happen later, it won't wash. This is best done with a "be careful or it just might get you disease." It is especially good if you want to wreak havoc in some group like gays. ... aids doesn't really affect gays who have a single, long-time partner. It does affect promiscuous gays, and it also affects promiscuous non-gays, and drug users, and people unlucky enough to get tainted blood. Aids will not - can not - destroy homosexuality any more than it could destroy IV drug use (remember hepatitis? Kill you just as dead, and a lot quicker, too. Didn't stop IV drug use.) An interesting effect of AIDS is seen in the heterosexual community, where it is almost like the plot of a movie titled: "Scared Straight" Judging from the rates of teen pregnancy, I suspect that teenage hormones are just as overpowering as they ever were, aids or not. Announcement slots (PSA for short), have pretty much turned it into a big campaign against "Sex, Drugs and maybe Rock-and-Roll." ... well, in that case, the ads will not have the effect desired. Maybe you and I see different ads; the ones I see seem to be saying, "either don't have sex, or use a condom" (which seems to be a pretty reasonable approach, given the vector.) Popular culture icons seem to be the ones featured in the ads. The ads *don't* say, for instance, "don't be gay." But is doubtful that the biotechnology even as late as the 1970s could do this. ... see above. Aids is older than the late 1970's. If it ever had a 'target audience', it would have had to have been selected 40 years ago (or so), and it has "slopped over" whatever the original target was (that slopover was inevitable, once it got into the medical blood supply; as I said before, if its target was everyone, its a poor choice.) Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14376 alt.alien.visitors:14262 sci.skeptic:40546 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!honte.uleth.ca!hg.uleth.ca!STD_MELNYCHU From: std_melnychu@hg.uleth.ca Subject: Re: Message From A Friend. Message-ID: <1993Mar11.073059.12003@honte.uleth.ca> Sender: news@honte.uleth.ca (News System) Reply-To: std_melnychu@hg.uleth.ca Organization: University of Lethbridge References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,<76521@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 07:30:59 GMT Lines: 14 I really think your friend should be careful that the stuff he/she is smoking isn't doing anything permanent to his/her neurons. Don't take me too seriously; I'm just poking fun. Actually, I'm not quite sure what the article is getting at. If you could maybe clear that up for me I could tell you what I think about it. Very poetic -- lovely flowing verse. Reminds me of Chattertonand Cowper. Ciao, Mike. @@] < O Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14263 alt.conspiracy:23974 sci.skeptic:40552 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: MUFONET - Current cases Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:24:35 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.142435.784@bilver.uucp> Lines: 403 AREA:UFO Tue 2 Mar 93 21:36 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Current cases --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Folks, These are some of the recent sightings cases courtesy of MUFONET. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MUFONET-BBS GROUP - MUFONET-BBS NETWORK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CURRENT CASES...... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Recent UFO/related cases investigated by MUFON Field Investigators. For case determination, contact the appropriate MUFON State Director.) 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿘ICHIGAN CASE: A family of four began seeing a very large � 퀃ransparent bubble of ball of light (about 10 feet across) � 쿶n early Augest. Other witnesses began to see the object at� 쿬lose range. � � � 쿙one of the witnesses have felt threatened by the object but� 퀃hey felt that they were being observed. � � � 쿔t will hover near them (as close as 10 feet away), just � 쿪bove the ground, and then zoom away. � � � 쿎ase is still under investigation. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿚REGON CASE: August 15, 1992, 12:07 a.m. Duration of the � 퀂ighting was 15 seconds at close range, 2 hours total visual� 퀂ighting. � � � 쿌 triangular-shaped object with lights, emitting no sound, � 퀇as sighted slowly flying South East. The object turned and� 쿯lew over Salem Airport in an easterly direction, to a spot � 쿽ver the Cascade Mountains, and remained there for one hour.� � � 쿟he object then flew north towards Mt. Hood. After reaching� 퀃he mountain, it turned and flew back to the original � 쿾osition and remained there for another hour. � � � 쿎ase is under investigation. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Louisiana � 쿏ate:............ 1980 � 쿗ocation:........ � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿔n 1980, a house-sized bright red ball came down from the � 퀂ky to near water level in a large coastal bay, then slowly � 쿬ircled a Corps of Engineer's dredge and shrimp boats in the� 쿫ay before zipping away. The ship's radios went dead while � 퀃he UFO was nearby. but exploded with talk as soon as the � 쿢FO disappeared. A complete report was allegedly sent to � 퀃he Coast Guard. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Louisiana � 쿏ate:............ April, 1990 � 쿗ocation:........ � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌pril 1990. Two Boy Scout Leaders were putting up a tent � 쿻ear a small lake after arriving at a campground near � 쿺idnight. A light moving above the treeline across the lake� 퀇as assumed to be an airplane until it crossed the lake and � 퀂topped less than 50 yards away. It was reported to be the � 퀂ize of a fist at arm's length, it hovered for maybe a � 쿺inute in complete silence before moving off rapidly down � 퀃he shore of the lake. The incident was immediately � 퀁eported to the camp ranger who remembers them as being very� 쿯rightened. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Louisiana � 쿏ate:............ April 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Shreveport � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌pril 1992. A 41-year-old college graduate, his nephew and � 쿴is nephew's wife were in his yard in Shreveport about 11:00� 쿪.m. when the man noticed three bright objects coming from � 퀃he east, north and west moving at an astonishing speed � 퀃owards a spot in the sky in the south. � � � 쿟he objects came to a complete stop in the sky and remained � 쿪t a standstill for two or three minutes, and then � 쿭isappeared. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Louisiana � 쿏ate:............ October, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Amite River � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿚ctober 1992. A college graduate in his mid-thirties was � 쿾utting out the garbage around 8:30 p.m. when he noticed a � 퀂trange white light an estimated 2 to 4 miles NE of his � 쿴ome, approximately over the Amite River. � � � 쿟he light appeared to be 400 to 500 feet high and about 100 � 퀃o 200 feet above it was a red light, both stationary. � � � 쿝ealizing there was no tower in that area and that the � 쿹ights did not resemble an aircraft or helicopter, he moved � 쿪round the house for a better view. During the � 쿪pproximate five minutes that he watched, the red light � 퀃wice suddenly jumped to a position well to the left of it's� 쿹ocation over the white light, remained there a few seconds,� 퀃hen jumped back to it's original position. Shortly after � 쿶t's second move, both lights suddenly disappeared. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ July 15, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Webster County, Missouri � 쿎ase Description: � � � � � 쿟wo MUFON Field Investigators and four other witnesses � 쿽bserved a craft in rural Webster County as 12:30 AM. The � 쿬raft was observed at a distance of less than 100 yards for � 쿪pproximately one minute. The craft was moving at a slow � 퀇alk pace about five feet above the ground. The craft � 쿭isappeared slowly as if it were "going through a door." � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � � 쿞tate:........... Oklahoma � 쿏ate:............ August 25, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Durant, Oklahoma � 쿎ase Description: � � � � � 쿚n Tuesday, August 25, 1992, a Durant resident called the � 쿚klahoma MUFON State Director at 11:30 p.m. and stated that � 쿴erself and a number of witnesses were watching a brightly � 쿹it object to their west and had been doing so since about � �11:00 that night. She described in detail what they were � 퀂eeing. � � � 쿟he first witness observed the object when he had gone to � 쿫ed. The time was 10:51 p.m. He looked out the west window� 쿽f his home which was open with the shades up. � � � 쿥hen he first saw the object, he thought it was a plane. � 쿍ut when it moved fast, from one position to another, behind� 쿪 tree to another opening between the trees, he then � 퀁ealized that it was not a conventional aircraft. It moved � 퀃oo fast too quickly to be an airplane. � � � 쿟he couple had company over, and the husband (first witness)� 퀉elled for the others in the house to watch the object. He � 퀂aid that it jumped to the right and stopped, swung like a � 쿾endulum back and forth, and then stopped motionless. � � � 쿟he others came to the bedroom to see the object, then � 쿾roceeded to move outside. Witness number 2 (wife) saw the � 쿽bject and described it to be about 1 1/8 inches across at � 쿪rms length (a circular oval template was used to judge the � 퀂ize of the object). She saw it when it was angled towards � 쿴er and saw a portion of the bottom of the object, which was� 쿭escribed as darker. � � � 쿌ccording to her statement, the object was conical with � 쿹ight rays emitting down from the bottom edge. It was � 퀂haped like the top of a bullet - pointed at the top, then � 쿮xtending down and outward to form an umbrella shape, but � 쿺ore of a pointed umbrella shape. It was flat on the � 쿫ottom. No protrusions were noticed. She said that she � 쿬ould see the shape when she looked to the side of the � 쿽bject. She had glasses on and they are corrected for � 쿻earsightedness. � � � 쿥itness number 3 entered the husband's bedroom as the � 쿴usband stated" You ain't going to believe this, but this is� 쿻ot a star. That is something else." � � � 쿟he light was moving in an erratic manner. When the husband� 퀇ent outside and regained sight of the object, it appeared � 쿪s a definite conical shape. Unlike the wife's report, � 퀇hich stated that the object was all white, the husband � 퀁eported three colors - blue on top, yellow in the middle � 쿪nd white on the lower third. � � � 쿟he husband's account and drawing indicated a more elongated� 쿽bject with basically the same shaped top (more like an � 쿪rtillery shell). His account indicates that at arms � 쿹ength, the object was about 3/4 inches wide and about 1 1/8� 쿶nches tall. It is possible that they were watching it � 쿬hange shape. � � � 쿐ach witness was interviewed separately. � � � 쿥itness number 2 described the light emitted by the craft � 퀁esembled an inverted gas flame on a kitchen range. The � 쿫ottom was darker than the rest of the craft, but her report� 쿶ndicates the object must have either been tilted slightly � 쿽r was higher when she looked at it than when witness number� �3 saw the shape. She stated it was a pendulum motion or � 쿾ossibly rotated. � � � 쿥itness number 4 stated that she was not wearing � 쿾rescription glasses at the time of the sighting, as she was� 퀁equired to wear them normally, but she could see the light.� 쿞he corroborated what the others had said. � � � 쿟hey were asked if they had read any material on UFOs, they � 쿪ll replied they had not. When asked if they watched TV and� 퀂een any of the Unsolved Mysteries, Hard Copy, etc. shows on� 쿢FOs they all replied yes. � � � 쿟he witnesses were credible, each having a college � 쿫ackground, and had nothing to gain from the report. Based � 쿽n what was said and the statements of each person, the � 쿮vidence looks reliable and valid. � � � �(Note: This case is similar to a case in September, 1976, � 퀃hat occurred in Tehran City, Iran.) � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ March 27, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Conway � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌 couple were driving from their rural home to the town of � 쿎onway, MO, when, at approximately 11:00 AM, the woman saw a� 퀂ilver disk approaching from the North. � � � 쿌s the couple watched the object from their car, the disk � 쿺ade a 90 degree turn to the West, stopped abruptly, and � 쿴overed for a few moments, and then accelerated almost � 쿶nstantaneously, disappearing into the West. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ April 01, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Springfield � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌 33-year old Springfield woman was awakened in her bedroom � 쿪t 1:10 AM to witness a disk-shaped object with red lights � 쿪round the bottom rim just outside her window. � � � 쿟he witness felt herself being pulled toward the window by a� �"force." She glanced at her bedside clock and saw that it � 퀇as 1:10 AM. The next recollection of the witness is that � 퀂he awakened with a jolt in her bed and that the time was � �3:10 AM. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ Early April, 1972 � 쿗ocation:........ Northview, Missouri � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌 woman and her two small children were driving home near � 쿙orthview, MO, when, as they rounded a curve they witnessed � 퀃wo red balls of light hovering above the road. The woman � 퀂lammed on her brakes to avoid hitting the lights. The red � 쿫alls flew up and over the car and disappeared. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ Late May, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Marshfield, Missouri � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌 Webster county woman was driving alone on a rural road 5 � 쿺iles south of marshfield, MO, when her attention was drawn � 퀃o a large red light in the northwest sky at just above � 퀃reetop level. She pulled over to the side of the road and � 퀂topped, watching the light. As she stopped, the light � 쿫ecame discernible as an object and dropped slowly behind � 퀂ome trees and out of sight. She described the object as � 쿽val in shape, approximately 30 feet by 60 feet, glowing red� 쿪nd noiseless. The object was less than one-quarter of a � 쿺ile away from the witness. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ Mid July, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Marchfield, Missouri � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿟wo men near Marchfield, MO, witnessed a large ball of light� 쿺aneuvering in the sky. As they watched, the light � 퀂eparated into twelve lights which then flew off to the west� 쿶n formation. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ Mid July, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Marchfield, Missouri � 쿎ase Description: � � � 쿌 Marchfield woman witnessed two silver disks through a � 쿫reak in the clouds following a thunderstorm. The disks � 쿪ppeared to be quite large and disappeared rapidly to the � 퀂outh. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 쿞tate:........... Missouri � 쿏ate:............ Late July, 1992 � 쿗ocation:........ Springfield, Missouri � 쿎ase Description: � � � � � 쿌 Springfield woman reported two robed creatures in a vacant� 쿯ield near her home. The creatures had amber eyes and � 쿪ppeared to have a computer-like apparatus which one was � 쿽perating. The creatures glided over the ground without � 쿪pparent effort. � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) ** EOF ** ============================================================================ NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14264 alt.conspiracy:23975 sci.skeptic:40553 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: AURORA articles Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:25:50 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.142550.918@bilver.uucp> Lines: 814 [ A user on the Fido UFO echo posted this series of Aurora articles which I found interesting..perhaps you will too - Don ] To conserve bandwidth, I eliminated the separate headers and have separated the articles by "***********" . Have fun ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- AREA:UFO Mon 1 Mar 93 13:25 By: Jim Doyle To: All Re: Aurora Spy Plane --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following appeared in the February 28, 1992 issue of Janes Defense Weekly on Pg 333: "Mystery contact may be Aurora" by: Bill Sweetman Mounting evidence suggests that the US Government has secretly developed and deployed a hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft, probably as a replacement for the SR-71. A Royal Air Force air traffic controller tracked a target leaving the NATO RAF base at Machrihanish, Scotland at an estimated speed of Mach 3 last November, according to 'The Scotsman' newspaper last week. Another witness heard an extremely loud jet noise near the base around the same time, it said. In the USA, highly supersonic aircraft believed to be operating from Nevada have been detected and tracked by seismological sensors installed by the US Geological Service (USGS). The booms were first recorded in June last year. Machrihanish in one of the most remote bases in Europe, located near the tip of the Kintyre peninsula in Western Scotland. Recent base modernization and a rumored association with the F-117 Stealth Fighter lend credence to the new reports. Meanwhile, the California booms are the first substantial corroborated evidence of unidentified supersonic aircraft operating over the USA. On at least four occasions, sonic booms have registered on some of the 220 sensors across Southern California, from the Los Angeles basin to the eastern edge of the Mojave desert, according to Jim Mori, a USGS seismologist at the California Institute of Technology. The incidents were recorded in June, October, November, and late January. The seismologists estimate that the targets were flying at speeds between Mach 3 and Mach 4. So far all the tracks have been headed north and east over the Los Angeles basin, pointing directly to southern Nevada, 500 km away. Most secret US Air Force activities, including the large flight test base at Groom Lake, are within the Nellis range in Nevada. Since the range is only 8 min from Los Angeles at such speeds, the targets were presumably decelerating as they crossed the coast. The USGS first noticed that its seismographs could detect sonic booms when they registered space shuttle landings at Edwards AFB, California. Mori says the wave-forms detected in the latest incidents are characteristic of a smaller vehicle than the 37 m long shuttle orbiter. Neither the shuttle nor the single SR-71B which NASA maintains in flight status were operating on the days the booms were detected. Reports that USAF is developing hypersonic aircraft in undisclosed 'black' programmes date back to the mid-1980s. In early 1988, the New York Times reported that a Mach 6 stealthy reconnaissance aircraft called Aurora was being developed to replace the SR-71, which was retired in early 1990. More recently witnesses in Nevada and California have reported hearing extremely loud or 'pulsing' noises caused by unidentified aircraft. Drawing Caption: Is this Aurora? Artists impression of a Mach 6 reconnaissance aircraft incorporating ejector ramjet engine fuelled by liquid methane or hydrogen. Stealth would be maintained through ceramic radar absorbent material able to withstand the fierce temperatures encountered at hypersonic speeds (Julian Cook) Drawing shows 2 aircraft from 10 O'clock low. Highly swept delta planform, with 2 long rectangular engine ducts underneath and twin verticals. It is not an all-body design. It's probably a blended body but it's too hard to tell, because a top view is missing. ******************************************************************************* Here are a couple of recent reports: NEW 'PULSER' SIGHTINGS "Donuts-on-a-rope" contrails produced by an unknown high-speed, high-altitude aircraft have been reported throughout the U.S. and Europe, suggesting the classified "pulser" is no longer confined to a test range (AW&ST May 11, p.62). In late January, a similar contrail--described as a "coiled spring"--was seen over Scotland behind a very fast aircraft flying east to west. The distinctive contrails have been spotted during daylight hours over Portland, Ore.; Washington Dulles International Airport, Va.; Denver, Colo.; and Edwards AFB, Calif. Observers said the main plume appeared to be connected directly to the aircraft, which was so high its shape could not be determined. Typical jet contrails become visible at some distance behind an aircraft as moisture in the exhaust condenses. The pulser's rings or "donuts" appeared to grow out of and encircle the plume a few seconds later. Propulsion experts have suggested the "pulser" may be powered by a ducted rocket, or a hybrid of a pulse detonation engine. COMBINED CYCLE POWERPLANT "DOUGHNUTS ON A ROPE" contrails produced by unknown high-speed, high-altitude aircraft may be the result of a Pratt & Whitney powerplant program aimed at developing what the company calls an "impulse motor". The engine is believed to be a combined cycle powerplant that integrates conventional gas turbine and rocket technologies. Such a powerplant would be capable of operating from a ground takeoff up to speeds approaching Mach 6. [ and of course that is the magic "Aurora" number! :-> ] The unusual contrail could be the result of running the powerplant off its narrow design point, according to U.S. propulsion experts. Officials have suggested that in the past, impulse engines have been located at Edwards AFB, Calif., and at government facilities at White Sands, N.M. [ both of these are excerpted from July AW&ST issues ] ************************************************************************** This article appeared in the Daily Breeze (LA) 8/25/92 Mystery Craft Spotted by Jetliner By Ken Leiser THe cockpit crew of a London-bound 747 reported a close encounter with a fast-moving aircraft near a Southern California Air Force Base earlier this month, but federal officials said Monday that the mysterious second craft never showed up on radar screens. A United Airlines crew reported seeing what appeared to be a missile or a Lockheed SR-71 type of airplane in airspace above George Air Force Base near Victorville, said Fred O'Donnell, spokesman for the FAA. United flight 934 was en route to London from LA on August 5 when the alleged sighting occurred,O'Donnell said. A United spokesman said today that the pilot did not report a near collision and couldn't say whether the airline will follow up the investigation. An account that appeared in this week's edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology said the "unusual aircraft" passed beneath the jumbo jet within 500 to 1000 feet at a high rate of speed, leading the crew to conclude it was supersonic. "There is really nothing to investigate," O'Donnell said. When controllers at the LA radar center were told of a close call, they couldn't find a second radar target on their screens. The sighting was near the soon-to-be closed George Air Force Base, by a spokesman there said all aircraft were removed from the base at the end of June and any munitions have been packed away. He referred further inquiries to the Pentagon. "We're done. We're down," said Air Farce Captain Jim Tynan. George Air Farce Base is about 55 miles south of Edwards Air Farce Base and was a training area for pilots of the F-4G WIld Weasel, an aircraft whose mission is to eliminate surface-to-air missile sites. Dottie Spiegelberg, chief of media relations at Edwards, said the sighting was reported in the airspace that military officials monitor, but "there was nothing on (base radar tapes) but the United Airlines flight." O'Donnell said the desert airspace is not restricted, but it is used for military operations. However, none was in progress that day, he said. **************************************************************************** RECENT SIGHTINGS OF XB-70-LIKE AIRCRAFT REINFORCE 1990 REPORTS FROM EDWARDS AREA William B. Scott/Lancaster, Calif. A large aircraft having a planform reminiscent of the Air Force/North American XB-70 supersonic bomber of the 1960s has been seen flying on the U.S. East and West coasts over the last two years. Two recent detailed reports of large, light-colored, XB-70 like aircraft - one in Georgia and the other in California's Mojave desert- provided new data that reinforce past sightings near Edwards AFB, Calif. Since September, 1990, residents of Mojave, Calif., and workers at Edwards AFB have seen a large, delta-shaped, light-colored aircraft flying in the area. A total of five separate sightings of this vehicle has been reported to AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY. Observers said they first saw a large, primarily delta-shaped aircraft at night during the summer of 1990. On Sept. 13, 1990, and Oct. 3, 1990, the same type of aircraft was seen flying near Mojave, Calif.in the late evening. Mojave is about 16 naut. mi. northwest of Edwards AFB. The dusk sightings yielded descriptions and sketches of the aircraft planform, nose and main landing gear door locations, leading edge tile-like patterns, and lightings layout. Observers consistently reported a red light beneath the nose, amber lights near the delta's wingtips, and a white light between the main gear doors. Engine noise associated with the aircraft seen on Sept. 19 was described as a low-pitched rumble. However, noise from two chase aircraft - one was an F-16, the other was not identified - may have combined with that of the large aircraft, distorting the latter's sound. Afterburner flames from twin exhaust ports located under the wing trailing edge and immediately outboard of the aircraft centerline during the Oct. 3 sighting. CLUES ABOUT POSSIBLE MISSION A similar aircraft was seen in April, 1991, at about 11 a.m., flying north of Edwards AFB at an estimated altitude of 5,000-10,000 ft. An observer said it was large - dwarfing an F-16 chasing it - and was light colored, possibly white. Independent sightings this year produced detailed sketches that correlate well with earlier ones and provide additional clues about the aircraft's possible mission. The first sighting this year was near Atlanta, Ga., on May 10. Glenn Emery, now a writer associated with Cable News Network, said a large, unidentified aircraft was flying eastbound at about 5 p.m. Because its size was unknown, its altitude was difficult to judge, but was estimated to be 10,000-15,000 ft. The vehicle was clearly higher and faster than the airline traffic descending for landing at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport. It was not leaving a contrail. He described the aircraft's planform as large, somewhat like an XB-70, but with a large forward wing or canard. Its dual engines were "extremely noisy", producing a deep-pitched, perioding beating sound, he said. Suggestions that he had seen the British Aerospace Concord or a Beech Starship were discounted by Emery, who said the shape, size and sound were inconsistent with either of those aircraft. Another sighting, on July 12 at 11:45 p.m., occurred near a Lockheed-operated radar cross section (RCS) test range in the Mojave desert. Described as an "XB-70-like" shape, the aircraft tuned its landing lights on while at fairly high altitude, then descended quickly, following an S-pattern flight track. It made a final turn at about 200 ft. above a road, crossing less than a mile in front of a motorist who had watched its descend. Ambient noise masked any sounds from the aircraft. Bright moonlight illuminated the aircraft's upper surfaces, giving the observer a good look at the planform during the turn. The aircraft rolled out, presenting a side view as it descended and landed at a private Helendale airport adjacent to the Lockheed RCS test facility. Located about 15 naut. mi. southwest of Barstow, Calif., Helendale Airfield's three runways are close to civil pilots on current aeronautical charts. However, Lockheed aircraft still land there when shuttling personel between its Burbank site and the RCS facility. Although weather was clear and calm at the Helendale field that night, several thunderstorms were reported in the Las Vegas area and through the highly classified range complexes in central Nevada. Based on observer reports, this unidentified aircraft's features include: # Large size, estimated to be close to 200 ft. in length. Observers near Edwards AFB said the vehicle "dwarfed" F-16 chase aircraft. # A large aft section with a clipped-delta platform. A narrower, blended fuselage extends from the delta's vertex forward to a clear-canopied cockpit and sharp nose. The main delta section has a prominent, raised spine along the top centerline. Upward-canted vertical fins rise at each outboard tip of the delta planform. # A prominent dark line extending longitudinally along part of the aft raised section. At the aft end of the line, just ahead of the trailing edge and between the engine nozzles, a broken visual pattern was seen, but observers could not describe it. # A forward wing or canard of fairly long spane. The canard, possibly used only for takeoff, landing and slow-speed regimes, may pivot or sweep aft for internal stowage during high-speed flight (Some observers reported a dominant canard, while others did not recall, suggesting it can be stowed). # Dual rectangular engine exhaust nozzles at the aircraft's trailing edge. # Light-colored top and bottom surfaces, with dark leading and trailing edges. Although the propulsion system is unknown, observers have reported a "very loud, low-pitched roar" with a rhytmic beat to it. They did not hear a series of detonations, which have been associated with high-speed "pulser" vehicles that create "donuts-on-a-rope" contrails * With this article, there is an artist's composite of the craft. * The caption reads: "The aircraft configuration suggests a variety * of mission roles, including carriage and high-speed launch of * an unmanned vehicle into orbit". [AW&ST, August 24, 1992] In the same issue, there are two other related articles: UNITED 747 CREW REPORTS NEAR-COLLISION WITH MYSTERIOUS SUPERSONIC AIRCRAFT, by Michael A. Dornheim/Los Angeles. SECRET AIRCRAFT ENCOMPASSES QUALITIES OF HIGH-SPEED LAUNCHER FOR SPACECRAFT, by William B. Scott/Lancaster, Calif. **************************************************************************** SECRET AIRCRAFT ENCOMPASSES QUALITIES OF HIGH-SPEED LAUNCHER FOR SPACECRAFT, by William B. Scott/Lancaster, Calif. Sightings of a large aircraft in Georgia and California during the last two years have raised new questions about whether the vehicle is a high-speed replacement for the Lockheed SR-71. It is not known if the "XB-70-like" aircraft is the vehicle popularly referred to as "Aurora" or the "pulser" that leaves "donuts-on-a-rope" contrails. Its size, configuration and features suggest the aircraft may have multiple missions. Observer descriptions, discussions with industry experts, and Aviation Week & Space Technology analyses suggest that the large aircraft could be the first of a two-stage system designed to launch small payloads into orbit. Released at Mach 6-8 from a raised section on the aircraft's aft deck, an unmanned vehicle could accelerate to orbital velocities, then release a small satellite in space. It also could remain in the atmosphere or fly a suborbital flight path, carrying its own suite of reconnaissance sensors. This concept, at present, has not been confirmed by any U.S. government agency or military service. However, aeronautics and space experts agreed the concept has considerable merit, particularly for orbiting payloads essential to national security. Such a two-stage-to-orbit concept is hardly a new one, having surfaced as a candidate U.S. launch system in the 1950s. It also is the basis for Germany's Saenger design. Advancements in strong, lightweight and heat-tolerant materials--as well as breakthroughs in hybrid propulsion systems--may have made the two-stage concept attractive for limited-weight, critical payloads. According to William R. Laidlaw, a former vice president of advanced systems for North American Rockwell and current founder/CEO of Aerotest, early studies defined the characteristics of such an aircraft. He said a high-speed, air-breathing launch vehicle would tend to be long, with a high fineness ratio; have a broad, delta planform; probably have wingtip-mounted vertical fins; use a multi-cycle propulsion system capable of reaching the Mach 6-8 regine, and be large enough to carry adequate hydrogen, methane or other advanced, high-energy, cryogenic fuel. EARLY STUDIES CONSISTENT Aviation Week analyses are supported by possibly related events and deduction, such as: X A long, slender aerodynamic shape with rounded chines was loaded into an Air Force C-5 transport at Lockheed's Burbank, Calif., "Skunk Works" facility on the night of Jan. 6. Estimated to be 65-75 ft. long and 10 ft. high, it was light-colored and had a distinctive, blended-shape aft cross section. The C-5 departed Burbank at 11:15pm PST and was cleared to Boeing Field near Seattle, Wash. X A quick-reaction project to develop a two-stage-to-orbit vehicle would have been highly attractive to the Defense Dept. after the shuttle Challenger accident and a subsequent series of expendable launch vehicle failures in the mid-to-late 1980s. A concerned Defense Dept. may have embraced a means of assuring access to space, especially if it were an on-demand, flexible launch system. X Air Force officials who canceled the SR-71 program said "satellites can do the job" of strategic reconnaissance. That position appeared to ignore the predictable and inflexible nature of satellites' fixed orbits. A high-speed aircraft/spacecraft system that could orbit a small satelliite carrying a suite of reconnaissance sensors and communication equipment would overcome that detraction, however. If the second-stage vehicle were fairly "stealthy," the satellite could be launched covertly into any orbit at the most desirable time. This approach also would preclude risks associated with in-atmospere aircraft overflying hostile areas. X Several spacecraft manufacturers have developed small satellites--or "small-sats"--that would be compatible with a two-stage launch system. Until recently, none would acknowledge they had built any, though (AW&ST June 15, p. 94). TRW, Ball Aerospace and others may have developed a stable of covert flexible spacecraft that can be configured with a variety of sensors, then launched into orbit on short notice. X Senior National Aero-Space Plane program engineers have admitted privately that their studies indicate a two-stage-to-orbit system is technically feasible and would be more economical than a single-stage system. "Given what we know now, we'd prefer to go with a high-speed aircraft and launch something from it to get into orbit," one engineer said. This concept would save about one third the fuel weight required of a single-stage NASP system, he said. X Several years ago, the Air Force Flight Dynamics Laboratory's "Beta" program was based on a two-stage-to-orbit system that uses a "Concorde- like" vehicle to launch a "miniature delta-shaped" craft into space, an engineer familiar with the effort said. For reasons still unclear, the aircraft was not built, he said. HISTORICAL PRECEDENTS A high-speed, two-stage launch concept is a logical descendant of the M-12/D-21A system Lockheed's Skunk Works developed under the A-12/YF-12/SR-71 "Blackbird" programs. A version of the Central Intelligence Agency's A-12 reconnaissance aircraft, the M-12 was designed to carry and launch a single 12,000lb. D-21A ramjet drone at 80,000 ft. and Mach 3. Two of the M-12 "motherships" were built. The A-12--originally designated the A-11 by Lockheed--was a single-seat predecessor of the two-man SR-71. It first flew in April, 1962. The YF-12A, designed as a Mach 3 interceptor armed with air-to-air missles, provided valuable flight test data for the follow-on SR-71 aircraft. All three Blackbird models had similar external planforms. Although one aircraft was lost during a test, several D-21A drones were launced from the M-12 at speeds over Mach 3, proving that high-speed separation is feasible. Another experiment demonstrated that the D-21A drone could operate its engines while still attached to the carrier aircraft, augmenting M-12 thrust during acceleration to high launch speeds. The drone engine was fueled from the M-12's tanks during this phase. Financial analysts recently concluded that "Aurora" and other classified programs at Lockheed grew from $65 million in 1987 to $400 million last year, and could reach $475 million by 1993, according to Lawrence M. Harris, a Kemper Securities analyst. Harris estimated that "Aurora" could be operational in 1995, and may have made its first flight in 1989. Employment at Lockheed's Advanced Development Co. has fluctuated somewhat in recent years, but, now at 4,600 employees, has remained higher than can be explained by residual TR-1, F-117A and F-22 work. ************************************************************************** This info was posted by fellow Blackbird fan: Dean Adams! It looks like we have a "second wave" of Aurora news! ------ 12/04/92 Wall Street Journal, page B-6: "Evidence Points to Secret U.S. Spy Plane" Magazine Suggests Aircraft Has Flown Mach 8 for Years by Roy J. Harris Jr. (nice illustration) The WSJ article is a preview of a Janes Defense Weekly article to appear in next week's edition of the magazine. The article is on this sighting. The article describes a sighting in August of 1989 from a North Sea oil rig,of a perfect 75 degree swept triangle planform, seen with a KC-135 and 2 F111s,as it flew over the oil rig. The sighting lasted for 90 seconds and the sky was hazy. The sighting was by 30 year old Chris Gibson, formerly a member of the now-disbanded Royal Observer Corps of volunteer aircraft spotters. Mr. Gibson said that he couldn't make out much detail of the mystery aircrafts underside, but he knew it was unusual. It wasn't until he recently saw a drawing of a putative hypersonic aircraft design that matched the perfect triangle shape, that he nearly "spat his coffee out all over the floor". -------------------------- LOS ANGELES (UPI) -- Lockheed Corp. has built a secret spy plane capable of cruising as fast as eight times the speed of sound, a representative of a British defense trade publication said Friday. The wedged-shaped plane, dubbed Aurora and carrying a price tag of $1 billion, may have been flying since 1985 and may be the source of a series of earthquake-like rumbles that have been occuring for more than a year in California, according to an article due to be released next week in Jane's Defence Weekly. The article, authored by Bill Sweetman, calls its findings a ``tentative analysis.'' Richard Stadler, a spokesman at Lockheed's Aeronautical Systems unit in Southern California, declined comment on the article and said he could neither confirm nor deny the existence of the plane. Mark Lambert, editor of Jane's, said that the article is based in part on an interview with an oil worker who, while a member of the British volunteer aircraft spotter organization Royal Observer Corps, claimed he saw a strange triangular shape fly over a remote part of the North Sea three years ago, escorted by a U.S. KC-135 tanker and two U.S. F-111 bombers. Lambert said the worker, Chris Gibson, later saw a rendering of the Aurora in a magazine and recognized it as the one he saw three years ago. ``There is a whole lot of contributary evidence to suggest its existence,'' Lambert said. Lambert said Lockheed's Advanced Development Co., nicknamed the Skunkworks and located in Palmdale adjacent to Edwards Air Force Base in the Mojave Desert, is the most likely prime contractor of the Aurora. ... Aerospace experts quoted in the article also said that such a plane could be powered by liquid methane. The article said Rockwell International Corp.'s Rocketdyne division, headquartered in the Santa Susana Mountains north of Los Angeles, is the likely builder of the Aurora's engines. Lockheed and Rockwell worked together on a losing bid to build the plane that eventually became Northrop Corp.'s bat-shaped B-2 stealth bomber. Rockwell has admitted it performs work on classified aerospace programs, but has declined further comment. The article noted that the name ``Aurora'' first appeared in 1984 as a defense budget line item next to the SR-71. On several occasions over the past year, California residents have reported feeling what seemed to be small earthquakes, but representatives of the US Geological Survey have said in response no earthquake was responsible and that a supersonic aircraft was the likely source. ***************************************************************************** SECRET PLANE SAID TO FLY 5,280 MILES PER HOUR by Associated Press LONDON - The U.S. Air Force is operating a new generation of secret spy planes capable of reaching eight times the speed of sound, Jane's Defense Weekly said Friday. In a report, prepared for next week's issue, the military affairs magazine said the triangular shaped planes have been in service since 1989. "We've been working on this report for about three years," Jane's editor, Paul Beaver, said in a telephone interview. "The evidence has grown overwhelming - all we need now is a photograph to prove that it exists." Beaver quoted the report as saying that the $1 billion plane, dubbed Aurora, could reach cruising speeds as great as Mach- 8 - or 5,280 mph and more than 2 1/2 times the official world record. The defense establishment continues to deny the existence of Aurora, be said. There was no immediate comment from Pentagon officials in Washington. The Pentagon announced in 1990 that it was retiring its super- sonic spy plane, the SR-7l Blackbird, and would rely for its future high-altitude surveillance on orbiting satellites. But Jane's technical editor, Bill Sweetman, who compiled the article, reported that the so-called "hypersonic" Aurora operates mainly at night and incorporates the latest radar-evading "stealth" technology. Sweetman, an expert in high-technology aircraft, maintained the Pentagon story about satellite spying was a smokescreen. Beaver said Sweetman reported extensively on the U.S. Air Force's stealth fighter and bomber programs before they were made public and has written a book on the development of stealth technology. A Mach-8 plane would be able to reach any point on the globe in less than three hours. Such a plane, fueled by liquid methane, would be of potentially greater use than high-resolution images from orbiting satellites that can take 24 hours to arrive over the subject, the report said. Beaver said Sweetman based his conclusions on pieced-together data, including strange sounds reported above air bases in Nevada and California, multibillion dollar spending on classified research projects and the sighting over the North Sea of a wedge-shaped aircraft under fighter-bomber escort. Chris Hudson, 30, a trained aircraft observer, told Jane's that while working as an oil-drilling engineer in the North Sea in 1989 he saw a bizarre wedge-shaped plane flying between two conventional F-111 fighter-bombers and a Hercules tanker. Sweetman believes this was the first sighting of Aurora. Beaver said the sighting can be linked to mysterious sounds heard by aerospace professionals near military airfields in California and Nevada that are characterized as a "low-frequency, high-ampli- tude pulsing." Sweetman said in his article that he believes the U.S. aero- space giant Lockheed, which produced the F-117 stealth fighter, is the most likely manufacturer of Aurora. "Lockheed's financial figures have indicated a continuing, large flow of income for 'classified' and 'special mission' aircraft," he wrote. The Lockheed Advanced Development Co. developed the previous generations of U-2 and SR-71 Blackbird spy planes. Both designs flew high-altitude spy missions undetected for years - in the U-2's case until Francis Gary Powers was shot down over Russia and captured in 1960. Though the report places Aurora's first flights in 1989, Beaver said he considered it unlikely that the plane was used during the Gulf War. ***************************************************************************** FYI, here is a nice list of recent "black" articles: [1] Aviation Week (AW&ST) Dec. 18, 1989, pp. 42-43, A VISTA issue, discussion of 'pulser' sightings and of possible mach 6 aircraft program named 'Aurora.' This is probably the first AW&ST reference to Aurora. [2] AW&ST, Jan. 8, 1990, p. 74, letter to the editor reporting sighting of mach 6 aircraft off California Coast. [3] AW&ST, Oct.1,1990, pp. 20-23, two articles dealing with technology and possible sightings of 'black' aircraft, with artist's conceptions. [4] AW&ST, Dec. 24, 1990, pp. 41-43, a VISTA issue, article on advanced aircraft technology. [5] AW&ST, October 28, 1991, pp. 68-69, article on pulse detonation engine engine technology (possible Aurora propulsion). [6] AW&ST, Nov. 11, 1991, pp. p. 15, News Breaks Dep't, short report on accoustic/seismic tracking of two high speed aircraft at mach 3 over coastal S. California. [7] Jane's Defence Weekly (JDW), Feb. 29, 1992, report of RAF ATC radar tracking an aircraft departing RAF-NATO Machrihanish, Scotland at mach 3. [8] AW&ST, March 9, 1992, pp. 66-67, report of sighting of possible 'black' aircraft near Beale AFB, Calif. [9] AW&ST, May 11, 1992, pp. 62-63, report of sightings of high speed air- craft and interceptions of possible associated UHF radio communications. Includes photographs of 'donuts-on-a-rope' contrails. [10] AW&ST, July 6, 1992, p. 13, Industry Observer Dep't, more reports of sightings of 'donuts-on-a-rope' contrails. [11] AW&ST, July 20, 1992, p. 13, Industry Observer Dep't, report on 'impulse motor,' another possible Aurora propulsion mechanism. [12] Flight International, July 22-28, report of possible magnitude of Lockheed Advanced Development Company's (aka Skunk Works) revenues derived from 'black' programs. [13] AW&ST, Aug. 24, 1992, pp. 23-25, report and technical analysis of XB-70-like aircraft sightings in Edwards AFB area. Includes artist's conception of aircraft. This issue also contains on p. 24 a widely- quoted report of a near-collision of a UAL 747 with a mysterious supersonic aircraft. [14] The Wall Street Journal, Dec. 4, 1992, p. B6 (Midwestern Edition), summary of to-be-published JDW article on possible 1989 sighting over UK North Sea waters. Includes artist's conception diagrams. [ ] highly classified triangular reconnaissance aircraft supporting the F-117As, designated TR-3A (AW&ST, June 10, 1991, pp. 20-21). *************************************************************************** [My thanks to Dean Adams for posting this] Plane Mystery Gains Speed, Hits 5,500 Miles an Hour By John Mintz Washington Post Staff Writer Mysterious rumblings in the California desert, staggeringly swift bright lights in the night skies over Nevada, a strange whooshing roar over Scotland and unexplained entries on Lockheed Corp.'s financial books all have an explanation, some aerospace enthusiasts say: The United States is developing a supersecret spy plane. Defense Department officials have denied it for years, and members of Congress who presumably would know say it's not so. But there is a growing consensus in the subculture of mystery aircraft-watchers - not loonies who talk of Venusian visitations, but defense industry journalists, market analysts and engineers - that the Pentagon is testing a new generation of ultra-fast aircraft that can travel up to Mach 8, eight times the speed of sound, or about 5,500 miles per hour. The world speed record is Mach 3.2. These scientists and obsessed individuals for years have trafficked in the latest news of sightings of things zooming around secret installations such as Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, puffs of smoke resembling "donuts on a rope" and word of radio transmissions to unknown craft landing in California. They even count cars in the parking lots of California defense contractors to devine whether a company's known projects could account for all the employees there. Now comes a new report in a defense industry publication throwing in with the speculators: Britain's Jane's Defence Weekly carried an article this week speculating that the U.S. Air Force has a secret fleet of new spy aircraft. This next-generation plane, according to the report, has a liquid-methane engine that is halfway between a rocket's and a jet plane's, costs $1 billion each and is a follow-on to the SR-71 Blackbird, a venerable spy-in-the-sky retired in 1990 after 28 years of service. The Jane's article, by veteran aviation writer Bill Sweetman, recounted an intriguing development: a British oil drilling engineer named Chris Gibson said that in 1989, while aboard a North Sea drilling rig, he spotted an arrowhead-shaped plane he had never seen before streaking across the sky. Gibson, an experienced aircraft observer, kept the sighting to himself until recently, when he sketched the mystery craft for Jane's. The drawing looks like others in Aviation Week and similar industry publications that for years have speculated there is a successor to the SR-71. Other experts say that if such a craft were indeed flying over the North Sea, it could buttress the idea that such a plane is "operational," meaning it has gone beyond the prototype and test stages. But some analysts point out that at the speeds at which the new plane is thought to fly, it would be difficut to restrict a test drive to U.S. airspace. A hypersonic trip from California to Japan would take only an hour, and nowhere on the planet would be more than three hours away. "A mysterious, fast-moving shape in the sky has been scaring sheep in the Mull of Kintyre (Scotland) and rattling windows in Los Angeles," said a July article in London's Sunday Telegraph asserting the existence of a new hypersonic aircraft. At night it visits a secure Scottish airfield guarded by U.S. Navy SEALs, "before stealthily streaking back to America across the North Pole," the paper said. Jane's said it believes the spy plane has been flying tests since about 1985 and has been operational since 1989. Air Force officials have denied such reports for years, with more pointedness than the "I-have-nothing-for-you-on-that" nondenial denials used in reply to queries about other classified subjects. "The Air Force has no such program, period," said Capt. Monica Aloisio, an Air Force spokeswoman. Yesterday she also denied a suggestion in Jane's that the Air Force would lie to cover up the secret plane. "Air Force public affairs doesn't knowingly participate in any disinformation programs," she said. But Sen. John Glenn (D-Ohio), a member of the Armed Services Committee who led congressional opposition to retiring the SR-71, said this week that the Pentagon's trickiness in denying secret programs over the years gives people pause. So with each flurry of reports like the one in Jane's, he calls the CIA and senior Defense Department officials "to make sure I wasn't being hung out to dry." "They answer me from all quarters there is no such program," Glenn said. "Everybody in CIA swears up and down there's no such program. I think they're telling me the truth." He said he used to wonder about those denials, because the Air Force's 1990 retirement of the SR-71 did not make sense. Air Force officials said satellites are more cost-effective for reconnaissance, but Glenn said planes such as the SR-71 are far superior. Spy planes, he said, are more maneuverable and can get to a target more quickly than satellites. Further, an adversary can often calculate when a satellite is making its once-every- few-hours sweeps and hide secrets on the ground. "The only way doing away with the '71 made sense," Glenn said in an interview this week, "was if you had a (spy plane) follow-on," which the Air Force has always denied. Glenn said he was also intrigued by the suggestion in the Jane's article that the supposed new plane is so secret that Defense Secretary Richard B. Cheney has designated it a "waived program," meaning only the chairmen and the ranking minority members of the House and Senate military committees would have been told of its existence. If true, Glenn is being kept in the dark by his own committee chairman, Sen. Sam Nunn (D-Ga.). Glenn said he called Nunn's staff this week and was told Nunn has not misled him on the subject. Glenn said that under the Senate's "rules of engagement," a direct question to a colleague must be answered straight. There are other indications suggesting there is no new spy plane. In the 1991 Persian Gulf War, for instance, field commanders were distressed at what they believed was inadequate photo reconnaissance by U.S. satellites and the some subsonic spy aircraft. The Pentagon considered reactivating the SR-71, but rejected it, government officials said. "If they'd had this (new spy plane) operational," said William E. Burrows, author of a 1987 book entitled "Deep Black: Space Espionage & National Security" about space-based military projects, "they would have used it" in the gulf. Ernest Blazar, who is writing a book on the SR-71, said industry sources told him the Pentagon planned a second-generation Blackbird that died in 1990 when the SR-71 was withdrawn from service. John Pike, director of a space policy project for the Federation of American Scientists, a nonprofit research group that favors disarmament and opposes government secrecy, contends as do other nongovernment experts that secret airplanes may exist but may have multiple missions operating as, say, spy planes and spacelaunch vehicles. Speculation about a possible successor to the SR-71 heated up in 1984, when an entry in the defense budget mentioned a $2 billion, two-year "Aurora" project. Pentagon officials said it was not a spy plane, but journalists became suspicious when, a year later, "the Aurora line item vanished as mysteriously as it had first appeared," said a report by the Federation of American Scientists. Jane's still uses that name for the supposed project, but Blazar said if a new spy plane exists, it would be code-named "Senior Citizen." A number of Wall Street defense industry analysts have said for years they think Lockheed - which built the SR-71 - and other companies are involved in the spy plane business because Pentagon money going to the firms does not square with the aircraft work the companies acknowledge. A Lockheed spokesman referred questions about the matter to the Pentagon. Proponents of the spy plane theory also cite earth rumblings in southern California that some U.S. Geological Survey scientists have speculated are sonic booms caused by unknown aircraft. There have been eight such booms in the last 18 months, all on Thursdays between 6 a.m. and 7 a.m. In a 94-page report published in August, the federation said "a certain measure of agnosticism continues to be appropriate" in discussing mystery aircraft. The report noted that in recent years, as the number of sightings of supposed secret Pentagon aircraft increased dramatically in the western United States, sightings of unidentified flying objects also rose there. Both groups of eyewitnesses typically cite bright lights in the sky or strange noises, the report said. "The number of reports (of mystery aircraft) and their consistency suggest that there may be some basis for these sightings other than hallucinogenic drugs," the report said. But it warned: "There is no exit from this wilderness of mirrors." * Origin: FamilyNet Intl. Echogate [708] 887-7685 (1:115/887) ** End of articles ** ========================================================================= NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14265 alt.conspiracy:23976 sci.skeptic:40554 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: RE-POST: Abduction articles Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:27:28 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.142728.1053@bilver.uucp> Lines: 687 AREA:UFO Tue 9 Feb 93 23:34 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Abduction Article --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Forwarded from "ET" * Originally by John Powell * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Feb 1993, 21:39 Encounter Phenomena Defy "Set Pattern"; by Karla Turner. (UFO, Vol. 8 No. 1 1993, Copyright 1992 by California UFO, 1536 S. Robertson Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90035, published bi-monthly with a subscription rate of $21/yr. Offices: UFO, PO Box 1053, Sunland, CA 91041-1053 818-951-1250) It is a myth that alien abductions of humans follow a set pattern or agenda. Perhaps the best-known proponent of this theory is Budd Hopkins, who in his books made the genetics and cross-breeding scenario familiar to the public. Yet when you read back through those books, you'll notice that several of the alien encounters seem to have very little apparent connection to an interest in breeding or DNA. And even Hopkins, in the past couple of years, has had to expand his theory to include a definite alien interest in some other things, such as pleasure and pain in humans. Other well-known UFO researchers also harbor restrictive theories about the abduction phenomenon. Jacques Vallee, David Jacobs, Whitley Strieber, Brad Steiger, John Lear, Raymond Fowler, Jenny Randles, Kevin Randle, John Keel and other writers hold a diversity of intelligent, often ingenious, theories, yet each makes the same error. They ignore parts of the abductions evidence--whatever details don't support their ideas. INADEQUATE THEORIES. Yet it must be clear that any present theory which cannot account for all the known evidence is not acceptable. At best, it can be misleading, especially for victims of abductions who turn to these prominent researchers seeking answers. A case in point occurred during a conversation I had with a prominent researcher in 1989. In his lectures, this researcher always said that he had certain ways of testing the validity of potential new abduction cases, and one of those ways was the presence of particular scars on the victims' bodies. I questioned him about a different kind of scar, one which I knew often appeared on abductees of my own acquaintance, and the researcher denied that such a mark showed up in his cases. "Are you sure?" I asked incredulously. "This mark is pretty common around here, and I'd think it would show up in other places, too. In fact, I know it has. "No," he insisted, shaking his head, "the only marks I find are like the ones I've already described." "And this other mark hasn't shown up at all?" I asked. "No," he repeated. "Not even once?" I persisted. "Well," he said reluctantly, lowering his voice, "there have been a couple of instances. That child I talked about tonight, she had two of those marks, and I think there was another case. But they're so rare that I have to ignore them. When you have two hundred cases with Scar A and only two cases with Scar B, you go with numbers." And that was the message he delivered, to an audience where anxious abductees were made to wonder if their anomalous marks meant anything after all, or if, as so many of their friends seemed to think, they were delusions of a troubled mind. 'NO SINGLE PATTERN'. In truth, however, although there are recurrent events in the abduction phenomenon, there is no single pattern or structure. And until we know what all the events mean, we can't afford to ignore any of them. What is one to make, for instance, of an ET-human encounter in which two of the four aliens assisted the abductee in preparing a roast for dinner? Granted, other events occurred in this case, but the dinner was indeed cooked, served and eaten by the abductee's family less than two hours after the ETs departed. Other details of this encounter included the manipulation of the abductee's neck, "for the purpose of instruction," and a discussion of genetically-stored memories and knowledge that can be tapped open in humans. But there was no medical exam, no cross-breeding activity, and no warnings of coming catastrophe, all of which are events that have been used to construct abduction theories. I know this to be true, because it happened to me. HUMAN DUPLICATES. Another anomalous event involves the duplication or replacement of the human by an alien counterpart. In one instance, a young man and his fiancee were in their car when a "shimmering force" enveloped him. He passed out, but moments later he began to move, acting and talking entirely different. His fiancee became terrified when he tried to drag her out into the dark back yard, where he told her "Something wants to see you there." And only when a friend drove into the yard did the young man return to normal, with no memory of his aberrant behavior during the past ten minutes. Under hypnotic regression, the fiancee described the young man as being kept in the car while the "other one" took his form and tried to control her. She called the "other one" a "hologram" and consistently referred to it as "it," not "him." In fact, she said she struggled to get away from "it" and back to the car where "the real" young man was still waiting. Under separate regression, the young man recalled his version of the evening and said that at a certain point he was "turned off" and "unplugged," yet he couldn't say what sort of power was then operating his body. An even more bizarre event happened to a woman in the Southwest during her encounter. She said she was "removed" from her body and stored in some inexplicable way, still aware, however, and able to communicate with her captors. They told her that another entity was now using her body, that it was going through all her regular activities, and that no one would be able to tell the difference. The day after the abduction when she returned to her job, she found that her body had indeed been at work, even though she herself was somewhere else. 'INTERDIMENSIONAL BEING'. These alien intruders apparently can behave and appear in a variety of ways. In one man's experience, a human-looking woman often appeared, although she claimed she was an interdimensional being whose real appearance was not what the abductee saw. At times she would be "completely there" and very three-dimensional, but at other times only her head would be visible, or her head and hands. The evidence from several cases also shows that the aliens have an odd interest in our animals, yet this is hardly mentioned in standard abduction research. During a period of intense ET activity in my family's life, for instance, our dog was somehow moved one night from a fenced back yard into a locked garage. And the same dog, conversely, woke us up one morning barking in the back yard, when it had been put in a locked garage the night before. In both cases, there was no sign that either the gate or the garage door had been opened. The old dog was quite blind, at any rate, and would have had trouble getting anywhere, even if both passageways had been clear. PET PUZZLER. Transporting dogs turned up again in the case of a UFO researcher. Her dog slept outside, yet in the middle of the night she was awakened by his wet tongue on her face. She and the dog were in her bed, but her bedroom door was still locked, as was the outside door, and there were two other doors closed in between them. Horses also have been moved, leaving their abductee-owners to track them down in corrals far distant from where the animals had been locked away for the night. It's hard to imagine the purpose of such events, yet they are part of the larger phenomenon and must have some relevance. There also seems to be a connection between abductions and the disappearance or appearance of possessions and other objects. One of the more humorous episodes occurred when a researcher was visiting another city and staying as a guest in our home. The day had been spent in work with other abductees, and that evening the group ordered Chinese food. PREFERRED UTENSILS APPEAR. As we sat eating the food, the researcher remarked that she preferred eating Chinese food with chopsticks, but we didn't have any. After the meal, the researcher went to her room then returned moments later with a very puzzled expression. "I thought you didn't have any chopsticks," she told my husband. "And I certainly didn't mean for you to go out and buy them! But thank you anyway for being so thoughtful." She held out a pair of chopsticks wrapped in paper and smiled. "Where did you get those?" he asked in amazement. "They were on my bed," she replied. "Didn't you put them there?" "Of course not!" he exclaimed. "There aren't--weren't--any chopsticks in the house, I promise you. And I haven't gone anywhere!" Other objects have appeared out of nowhere, such as metal balls falling from abductees' bodies when they rose from their beds the morning after an encounter. In another instance, a mother saw what looked like a white book floating horizontally in her son's bedroom, but when she went in, there was no book to be seen. In one abductee's home, a fish disappeared from their aquarium, and then it reappeared ten days later, twice as large as it had been. Within 24 hours, however, it died, as did all the other fish in the tank. WOMEN IN DISTRESS. Perhaps the most remarkable and disturbing set of cases concerned two women I know but who are unacquainted with each other. The first woman awoke one morning to find her bed soaked with blood. It was during her menstrual cycle, yet she was surprised to have bled so profusely as to soak through the tampon she had inserted before going to bed. When she went to the bathroom to clean up, she could find no tampon to remove. Frantically she searched her bed, the bedroom, and finally her entire apartment, but the tampon had disappeared. A few days later, she related the incident to me, but neither of us knew what to make of it. A month passed, and I received a call from the second woman, who lived far away from me. She was perplexed by an event of the previous night and wanted to tell someone about it. This woman was having her menstrual cycle also, and the night before had put on a sanitary pad before going to bed. Several hours later, she woke up and decided to go change the pad, as she was an unusually heavy bleeder. In surprise, however, she found the pad was spotless, and then she felt something inside her. She told me that she removed the tampon, but couldn't understand how it had gotten there. "I haven't used tampons in ten years," she said, "so this doesn't make any sense." ANOMALIES IN 'TYPICAL' REPORTS. Anomalies have turned up in some cases that might otherwise seem to follow the "typical" abduction sequence of going into the "ship," undergoing an examination and being returned with little or no memory. Sometimes, for instance, the surroundings in the "ship" are described as messy or dirty, with foul odors and signs of sloppy housekeeping. Sometimes the interior is said to be crowded, buzzing with numerous entities engaged in rapid, inexplicable movements from place to place. Even more unusual are those accounts of abductions to inner space rather than outer space. In these cases, abductees tell of being taken into large underground complexes, and their descriptions very often include earthly--perhaps military-- apparatus as well as the presence of both humans and aliens working together. These underground areas are reached through long vertical or corkscrewing tunnels, the abductees say, and in one case the place looked like a movie set of an old Western town. 'BATHROOM SETTINGS'. A third anomalous episode, which may have taken place aboard a craft or in an underground setting, involves abductees taken into "bathroom" settings. There they are made to get into "stalls" with or without toilets, and in most cases the abductees are thoroughly frightened by the events that occur in these surroundings, often having to do with examination of their sexual organs. Most of these anomalous details have come from a relatively small group of abductees, yet similar cases are known elsewhere. In the instance of the odd scar, which began this discussion, there are cases of the triangular pattern turning up all over the world, yet no prominent researcher has acknowledged this. The scoop marks and straight-line cuts are well known, but just as frequent are less permanent scars and marks. Single, double and multiple puncture marks appear on abductees' bodies, as do wide paths of subcutaneous purplish smears, triangles and other shapes made by skin discoloration rather than punctures, and long claw- mark scratches, usually numerous, accompanied by even longer welts of unbroken skin. CHALLENGE TO 'POSITIVE' THEORIES. As to researchers who claim that the ETs are here to help us evolve some higher consciousness or that they are here for some other positive purpose--saving our plant, promoting world peace, etc.--I challenge those researchers to incorporate anomalous data into this view. What about those people who suffer total breakdowns after their experiences? What about those who undergo wild personality changes, who find themselves obsessed with deviant sexual behavior they never had before, often leading to the breakup of marriages and friendships? These things have happened numerous times, but no researcher has yet explained the higher purpose behind such results. Particularly disturbing are those cases where previously healthy individuals have an ET encounter and then develop debilitating or terminal illnesses. It is well known that many women suffer gynecological problems after their experiences, often leading to hysterectomies. But other instances have shown the development of severe fatigue, horrible swelling and itching, and even cancer. Where are the positive effects in these cases? Theories are starting places for research, not proven conclusions, and UFO researchers must be willing to expand and alter their pet theories according to the data they uncover. It would be wonderful if we could shape ET experiences into something positive, but until the details of abduction encounters--all the details--are given serious consideration, I think it's dangerous to cling to theories that ignore data that will not fit. We owe it to ourselves to seek the whole truth. (Karla Turner, Ph.D. received her doctorate in English studies from the University of North Texas and was a university teaching fellow for over a decade. Author of the recently-released Into the Fringe, she has researched the UFO phenomenon and worked with abductees since 1988.) "Alien Abductions in the Gingerbread House"; by Dr. Karla Turner. (UFO Universe, Vol. 3 No. 1 Spring 1993. Copyright 1993 by Charlotte Magazine Corp., Inc. 1700 Broadway, New York, NY 10019. Published quarterly with a subscription rate of $14/yr. 815-734-1103.) World renowned UFO researcher Jacques Vallee has repeatedly referred to the similarities between UFO and abduction reports and the stories of folklore and fairy tales. I disagree with Dr. Vallee on many, many points of UFOlogy, but here I will grant that there is one fairy tale which does have something important to tell us about the alien abduction phenomenon. It is not, however, what Dr. Vallee might think. The story of Hansel and Gretel presents a lesson that every abductee should heed. These innocent children, wandering lost and frightened in the forest, came upon a gingerbread house that seemed to offer them shelter and sustenance. The owner of the house, a wizened old woman, was frightening to them at first, but their hunger pushed the children to accept her offer to come inside and be fed. And so they entered the gingerbread house and promptly became the old woman's captives. Kept in cages, the two children were abundantly fed. It was not for their benefit, though. In fact, they were being fattened up for the oven! The deceptive nature of the gingerbread house and of the old woman's offer of food worked quite well. It is the deceptive quality of this story that holds a warning for humans who are abducted by aliens. Like Hansel and Gretel, we are initially terrified by our encounter with aliens, but in too many cases, our fear is overcome by the words of our abductors and by the thoughts and experiences they present to us. I, too, am an abductee, and my quest to discover the nature of my own experiences led me into abduction research over the past four years. Working with many other abduction cases, I have learned just how basic the deception of alien actions can be. My family and I also delved into our own experiences, both past and present. Barbara Bartholic, a dedicated UFO investigator from Tulsa, Oklahoma, worked closely with us and helped us fill in the gaps in our recollections of strange encounters through hypnotic regression. Ms. Bartholic, by the way, began her own research as an assistant to Jacques Vallee in cattle mutilation investigations, so her expertise in ufology is wide-ranging. I have recently written a book, Into the Fringe, about the startling and often disturbing results of our personal investigations, and it will be published by the Berkley Publishing Group in November 1992. But my interest soon expanded past the merely personal, and for the past several years I have worked as Ms. Bartholic's research associate, exploring literally hundreds of sighting and encounter cases with her. And what I've learned through this work has raised far more questions than answers. In fact, it has taught me to be wary of those researchers who do claim to have answers. I have yet to hear of a single theory or explanation that accounts for all of the data. Some researchers have pointed out patterns of events in the abduction experience, such as the physical examination, the taking of sperm and ova, and the later presentation of a hybrid baby to the abductee. Other patterns include the training of the abductee in some way and the delivery of a warning of some upcoming global disaster. Yes, these events are frequently reported, as one researcher has said in boringly repetitious accounts, and it is tempting to think that the explanation for alien abductions may lie in these patterns. So the researchers announce that the problem is solved. The aliens are doing cross-breeding experiments, UFOlogists tell us. Never mind the overwhelming evidence against the viable commingling of different species. Or, we are told, the aliens are here to save us from destroying ourselves and our planet through violence, drug use, epidemic disease, pollution, and resource depletion. Never mind that these problems have grown worse, not better, since the ETs began visiting us. Or, most infuriating of all, we are assured that there are no actual aliens, that our experiences spring from our own subconscious turmoil or from our need for fantasy fulfillment. Never mind that many abductees are young children, too young to be suffering from such psychological disturbances. Well, then, the resourceful researcher counters, the imagined aliens must spring from some collective human super-psyche that is mirroring our failures and dangers back to us. This particular theory adores the archetypal gray ET, because it resembles some sickly fetal form of humanity and must therefore be an objectified warning of what our species is in danger of becoming if we don't mend our ways. Never mind that many, many abductees have no dealing with grays, but instead are victimized by robust reptoids and insectoids. Not to mention the totally human-looking blond beauties and black-headed, black-robed clan with the widow's peak hairline. No, too many researchers seem to find a theory and cling to it in spite of data that contradict it. And it is the ideas of these researchers that dominate ufology. But if the public had access to the raw data, to the first-hand reports of abductees, especially those unfamiliar with UFO-oriented books, magazines, and lecturers, they would find a much less neatly organized set of patterns. These "virgin" cases--people uncontaminated by ufological literature--supply a staggering picture of human-alien contact events. What follows here is an overview of these "virgin" reports, a list of recurrent experiences that taken together gives us a close-up view of what the aliens are doing here on earth. This data doesn't tell us for certain just what sort of creatures the aliens are, or what their purpose here may be. But it does tell us what humans are experiencing and what they are observing in the actions and capabilities of the aliens. Every detail in the following list has been reported by more than one abductee, and in many cases the details have turned up quite frequently. ABDUCTION "CHECKLIST". If these reports can be believed--and there is no reason to doubt the honesty of the reporters--the abduction phenomenon includes the following details. -- Aliens can alter our perception of our surroundings. -- Aliens can control what we think we see. They can appear to us in any number of guises, and shapes. -- Aliens can take us--our consciousness--out of our physical bodies, disable our control of our bodies, install one of their own entities, and use our bodies as vehicles for their own activities before returning our consciousness to our bodies. -- Aliens can be present with us in an invisible state and can make themselves only partially visible. -- Abductees receive marks on their bodies other than the well-known scoops and straight-line scars. These other marks include single punctures, multiple punctures, large bruises, three- and four-fingered claw marks, and triangles of every possible sort. -- Females abductees often suffer serious gynecological problems after their alien encounters, and sometimes these problems lead to cysts, tumors, cancer of the breasts and uterus, and to hysterectomies. -- Aliens take body fluids from our necks, spines, blood veins, joints such as knees and wrists, and other places. They also inject unknown fluids into various parts of our bodies. -- A surprising number of abductees suffer from serious illnesses they didn't have before their encounters. These have led to surgery, debilitation, and even death from causes the doctors can't identify. -- Some abductees experience a degeneration of their mental, social, and spiritual well-being. Excessive behavior frequently erupts, such as drug abuse, alcoholism, overeating, and promiscuity. Strange obsessions develop and cause the disruption of normal life and the destruction of personal relationships. -- Aliens show a great interest in adult sexuality, child sexuality, and in inflicting physical pain on abductees. -- Abductees recall being instructed and trained by aliens. This training may be in the form of verbal or telepathic lessons, slide shows, or actual hands-on instruction in the operation of alien technology. -- Abductees report being taken to facilities in which they encounter not only aliens but also normal-looking humans, sometimes in military uniforms, working with the alien captors. -- Abductees often encounter more than one sort of alien during an experience, not just the grays. Every possible combination of gray, reptoid, insectoid, blond, and widow's peak have been seen during single abductions, aboard the same craft or in the same facility. -- Abductees--"virgin" cases--report being taken to underground facilities where they see grotesque hybrid creatures, nurseries of hybrid humanoid fetuses, and vats of colored liquid filled with parts of human bodies. -- Abductees report seeing other humans in these facilities being drained of blood, being mutilated, flayed, and dismembered, and being stacked, lifeless, like cords of wood. Some abductees have been threatened that they, too, will end up in this condition if they don't cooperate with their alien captors. -- Aliens come into homes and temporarily remove young children, leaving their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. In cases where a parent has been able to protest, the aliens insist that "The children belong to us." -- Aliens have forced their human abductees to have sexual intercourse with aliens and even with other abductees while groups of aliens observe these performances. In such encounters, the aliens have sometimes disguised themselves in order to gain the cooperation of the abductee, appearing in such forms as Jesus, the Pope, certain celebrities, and even the dead spouses of the abductees. -- Children abductees sometimes show a new and obsessive interest in their own genitalia after alien encounters, saying that their abductors who come at night have been touching these parts of their bodies. -- Aliens perform extremely painful experiments or procedures on abductees, saying that these acts are necessary but giving no explanation why. Abductees' eyes are painfully removed from the sockets, allowing the aliens to scrape the area or implant devices into the area before the eyeballs are replaced, for instance. Some abductees are subjected to painful constrictions, often around the head, chest and extremities. Painful genitalia and anal probes are performed, on children as well as adults. -- Aliens make predictions of an imminent period of global chaos and destruction. They say that a certain number of humans- -and the number varies dramatically from case to case--will be "rescued" from the planet in order to continue the species, either on another planet or back on earth after the destruction is over. Many abductees report that they don't believe their alien captors and foresee instead a much more sinister use of the "rescued" humans. In every instance from this list, there are multiple reports from unrelated cases, confirming that such bizarre details are not the product of a single deranged mind. These details are convincing evidence that, contrary to the claims of many UFO researchers, the abduction experience isn't limited to a uniform pattern of events. This phenomenon simply can't be explained in terms of cross-breeding experiments or scientific research into the human physiology. SPIRITUALLY ENLIGHTENED? And it becomes clear from these details that the beings who are doing such things can't be seen as spiritually enlightened, with the best interest of the human race in mind. Something else is going on, something far more painful and frightening, in many, many abduction encounters. There is a theory current in ufological research that says abductees who perceive their experiences in a negative way only do so because they themselves aren't spiritually or psychically advanced. Persons with higher cosmic development have positive alien encounters, so the theory goes, and those who have painful or frightening experiences are merely spiritual Neanderthals. This is a pet theory of researchers who claim that aliens, whether objectively real or not, serve as "mirrors" of our spiritual nature, on an individual or a species-wide basis. Strieber has voiced this theory, for instance, in Majestic, where he says, "In the eyes of the others [the aliens], we who met them saw ourselves. And there were demons there." Having worked with so many decent, honest, positively oriented abductees, however, I believe this theory is wrong. It is worse than wrong--it is despicable, as despicable as blaming a rape victim for the violence committed against her. This attitude leaves many abductees feeling doubly violated, first by the aliens who took them and then by the UFO researchers to whom they turn for explanations and help. But it is easy to understand why such a theory would be so popular. Humans have a deep need to believe in the power of good. We need for the aliens to be a good force, since we feel so helpless in their presence. And we need for some superior force to offer us a hope of salvation, both personally and globally, when we consider the sorry state of the world. I think the aliens know this about us--they know that we want and hope for them to be benevolent creatures--and they use our desire for goodness to manipulate us. What better way to gain our cooperation than to tell us that the things they are doing are for our own good? But looking at the actions, the results of alien interference such as the long list above. There is a great discrepancy between what we desire from them and what they are doing to us. Not all abduction reports are filled with frightening or painful events, of course. Many people say that their alien encounters felt benevolent, that their abductors treated them kindly or at least with a scientific detachment. Some abductees recall being told that they were "special," that they were "chosen," and that they have an important task to perform for the benefit of humanity. Given such a positive message, the abductees may ignore the fear and the pain of their encounters and insist to themselves and to others that a higher motive underlies the abduction experience. And, in some cases, all that an abductee remembers is a benevolent encounter and so has no reason to assume any negative action has occurred. But intensive research shows that at the core of the human- alien interaction there is a clear pattern of deception. We know, for instance, that "screen memories" are often used to mask an alien abduction. Such accounts abound, in which a person sees a familiar yet out-of-place animal, like a deer or owl, a monkey or a rabbit, and then experiences a period of missing time. The person often awakens later to find a new, unexplained scar on his body. Uneasiness about the encounter will persist, however, and far different memories may start to surface in dreams or flashbacks, and then the person seeks help to explain the uneasiness. Quite often, hypnotic regression is used to uncover the events behind the "screen memory," and that is when a typical alien abduction surfaces. The most recent research in which I've been involved has turned up yet a second sort of screening process. If it turns out to be accurate, then thousands of abduction cases are in urgent need of re-examination. The typical scenario of undergoing the regressive hypnosis usually results in penetration of the initial blocked memories. The abductee then recalls an encounter, hitherto unremembered, such as undergoing a physical examination of some sort, perhaps having body tissues removed or having a gynecological exam. Other typical reports include the taking of sperm and ova, of being told of an important task to be carried out, or of receiving a warning of upcoming disaster. And in most cases, both the abductee and the investigator come away from the hypnosis session feeling that they have discovered the truth about the experience. Rationalization leads them to believe that the aliens' purposes must be scientifically objective or benevolent. The less threatening and more benevolent the hypnotically recalled event seems, the more satisfied are the investigator and the abductee. "That wasn't so bad, now, was it? These beings are our friends, or at least they are not our enemies." And everyone goes away with a sense of relief. I have yet to hear of a researcher who actually questions the uncovered scenario. But from several recent cases, it is apparent that these recovered memories may well also be yet another screen, masking events that are much more reprehensible. I will explain one such case, to make the point clear. A STRANGE REPORT. A man in his late 40's came to us to explore several alien- related events in his life, and in the interview he told of a strange, although not apparently alien-oriented, episode that had haunted him since childhood. When he was ten years old, his grandmother came to visit in his home, and since the house was small, she shared his bed on the first night of her visit. During the night, the boy was awakened by a loud male voice. He couldn't understand what the voice was saying, but it sounded angry and was addressing the grandmother lying beside him. The next morning, he asked his grandmother, "What was that voice in the bedroom last night?" His grandmother, with tears in her eyes, pulled him tightly to her and said, "That was the devil." She said nothing more about the episode, but she did insist that her son take her back to her own home immediately. It was an unreasonable request, and her son tried to talk her out of it. But the grandmother was adamant, and finally her son agreed to take her home the following day. The entire family made the trip of over a hundred miles back to the grandmother's farm, and within an hour of their arrival, the grandmother suffered a massive stroke and died. Ever since that event, the man had felt a heavy burden of guilt associated with his grandmother's death. Yet there was no conscious reason for him to have felt that way. The entire event was poignant and mystifying, but in all the alien encounters he had subsequently undergone, he had felt that the aliens were his friends and were helping him by expanding his psychic abilities. A regression session was arranged, and in the course of the hypnosis, he was asked to look at that childhood experience. What he recalled was an abduction in which he and his grandmother were taken to a spacecraft in the company of reptilian aliens. He remembered the aliens telling his grandmother that they were interested in learning about her knowledge of medicinal herbs. And they offered to exchange medical information of their own. They gave the boy and the grandmother a liquid to drink, explaining that it was beneficial and would make the grandmother feel young and attractive again. So both of them drank the liquid, and the man remembered seeing his grandmother indeed looking much younger. That was the extent of his recollection. Both he and Ms. Bartholic, who was conducting the regression, were puzzled by this, because there was nothing in the episode to account for the guilt he had felt about the grandmother's death. So Ms. Bartholic deepened the man's trance level and asked him to look at it again, with much clearer vision. And what he then recalled was much more disturbing. The abduction, at first, followed his initial recollection. But when the liquid was drunk, he now remembered a very strong feeling of change in his body. And he saw that the grandmother didn't actually look younger. Instead, she was placed on a table and approached by one of the reptilian aliens who wanted to have intercourse with her. The liquid had acted as an aphrodisiac, yet the grandmother resisted and said that since her husband's death she would not have sex with anyone. The reptilian laughed and disappeared from the room momentarily. When he returned, he was accompanied by a man who looked exactly like the dead husband. At this point, the grandmother agreed to have sex, but as the act was in progress, she suddenly realized that the image of her dead husband was a cruel illusion. It was actually the reptilian on top of her, and she cried out in great resistance for him to leave her alone. Once he was finished with her, he lifted up the little boy and placed him on top of the grandmother, forcing another sex act upon the both of them. Then the grandmother was removed from the table and the little boy was victimized himself by the reptilian, forced to have anal and oral sex. The grandmother protested violently, pushing the reptilian away from her grandson and interposing her body between them. "By Jesus," she shouted, "you will not touch this boy!" That must have been the wrong thing to say, because the reptilian became very angry and threatened her. "You will die for that!" he told her, and the two people were returned to the bedroom from which they'd been taken. The next morning, the grandmother told the little boy that the devil had been there the night before, and that was when she insisted upon being taken home. And, as it turned out, she did die immediately thereafter. This, then, was the cause of the man's lifelong sense of guilt about her death. He had been forced to have sex with her, and her death had followed shortly after. But none of this story would have emerged if Ms. Bartholic had done as most investigators do and stopped the regression after uncovering the story about the exchange of medicinal knowledge. There are other cases in our files that show a similar deception at work in the initial hypnotic recall. We cannot trust that first memory, it is clear, for like so much else in the abduction experience, there may well be further maskings of events. Before we allow ourselves to believe in the benevolence of the alien interaction, we should ask, do enlightened beings need to use the cover of night to perform good deeds? Do they need to paralyze us and render us helpless to resist? Do angels need to steal our fetuses? Do they need to manipulate our children's genitals and probe our rectums? Are fear, pain and deception consistent with high spiritual motives? * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) ** EOF ** ========================================================================= NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the *best* way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14266 alt.conspiracy:23977 sci.skeptic:40555 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: RE-POST: Mexico City UFO sightings Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:28:32 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.142832.1184@bilver.uucp> Lines: 200 Note - I added where to get the video at the end of this article - Don ====================================================================== AREA:UFO Mon 1 Mar 93 23:30 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Mexico City Sightings --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Forwarded from "UFO" * Originally by Vince Johnson * Originally to All * Originally dated 4 Feb 1993, 13:29 The following file is courtesy of HUFON REPORT, the newsletter of the Houston UFO Network. For more information, call (713) 850-1352. Messengers of Destiny Reviewed by David Mayo What can one say about some of the most fantastic visual evidence of sky-bound anomalies ever recorded? Weeks ago, when I first received the mail-order offer from Genesis III Productions, I was reluctant to order. As most of you know, there is a glut of UFO material out there, but little is of any significance. Ufology is a science most everyone loves to ridicule and there is no shortage of scam artists eager to make a buck off information -hungry UFO enthusiasts. I had convinced myself this offer was just such a ruse, when a few days later, an associate I trust asked me if I had heard of the Mexico City sightings. He insisted that when anything on this became available, I should purchase it post haste. As anyone who attended Houston UFO Network's January meeting highlighting this tape would agree, this was very good advice. The video, "Messengers of Destiny," is by far the best daylight UFO footage I have ever seen! The tape, co-produced by Lee Elders and Jaime Maussan and narrated by Brit and Lee Elders, begins with references to Mayan prophesies and, in particular, those found on the Dresde Codex (755 AD.), ancient Mayan stone tablets that speak of future events, and the Sun Rock, also known as the Aztec Calendar. Their hieroglyphics supposedly state that the July 1991 sun (or solar eclipse) would usher in two life-altering events: Earth changes and cosmic awareness in the form of an encounter with the masters of the stars. According to legend, the first sun ended with devastating winds; the second with fiery rain; the third with darkness; and the fourth sun with water, believed by some to be the Biblical Flood. The fifth sun was to end with devastating earthquakes, thought to be the massive Mexican earthquake of 1985. Scientists had eagerly awaiting the 1991 eclipse, calling it the eclipse of the millennium due to its unusually long expected duration of six minutes and 45 seconds over land. It was a given that this solar eclipse would be highly scrutinized and recorded. Shortly after 1 p.m. on July 11, 1991, individuals with cameras and camcorders waited with anticipation for the eclipse to begin. At 1:22 p.m., people began to notice a silvery object in the sky hanging motionless below the eclipsed sun. By 1:24 p.m., the sun was in full eclipse and the object had caught many people's attention. By 1:27 PM, the sun began to reveal itself as the eclipse waned as cameras and camcorders were aimed at the first mass-photographed daylight disk. The videos show a silvery object hanging below the eclipsing sun. As one who has admittedly become bored with lights in the sky, these daylight shots have a sense of reality about them that is both exciting and astonishing. During the course of viewing this tape, over 40 clips of UFOs consisting of four daylight varieties and one interesting nighttime configuration are presented. The one seen during the solar eclipse was a short "top-hat" design, sporting a smooth silver surface and a darker lower flange. The second appeared as a flattened spinning top; the third as a sombrero (large thin flange with a small dome on top); and the fourth was similar in design to one of Billy Meier's beamships photographed in Switzerland. Some of the night shots showed an object banking in the dark sky revealing the familiar triangular pattern of lights made famous by the Belgium flap of recent years. The Elders owe a great deal of gratitude to Jaime Maussan, the chief investigative reporter and editor of "60 Minutos," a popular Mexican television show patterned after "60 Minutes." Shortly after the events during the solar eclipse, Maussan took it upon himself to assign a news team to the investigation of these UFOs. He also appeared on "Siempre & Domingos," another popular TV program. He showed footage of the silver ship and asked the viewing audience to please send him any videos that had been taken of the UFOs. The TV station was swamped with phone calls, resulting in hundreds of videos sent to Mr. Maussan. Among some of the stranger outcomes of this request for evidence was footage from a town 85 miles from Mexico City where an identical daylight disk was seen and recorded at the same moment! Another clip shows a UFO performing (according to the Elders' interpretation) a "hyper-jump" as it stretches and streaks away within a split second. The best of the video evidence was gathered by the Elders and made available for analysis. Optical enhancement , as analyzed on camera by H. David Froning, director of Flight Unlimited (and a scientist friend of the Elders), shows that the UFO is rotating and occasionally throwing off a multi-colored corona. The Mexican UFOs are similar, if not identical to, aerial objects that are being seen in Japan and the Commonwealth of Independent States. On May 8, 1992, at the Elders invitation, a NIPPON TV research team from Japan arrived to study the situation. It had been determined that many sightings suggested a flight path along the Volcano Zone, a string of dormant volcanoes that include Mount Txtaccihuatl and Mount Popocatepetl, which lie between Mexico City and Pueblo. After speaking to a city mayor and a police chief (who. along with local media, were all very open to the phenomenon) the team left for Mount Popocatepetl and set-up camp. That night, they witnessed and videotaped the strange triangular lights of the UFO. There were several significant event dates that followed the Mexico City sightings. On September 16, 1991, Mexican National Independence Day, a parade of marching troops, military jet and helicopter fly-bys, etc. was being covered by a reporter videotaping the parade activities. He noticed, and then recorded, a silvery object close to a formation of 24 air force fighters. Moments later, five fighters broke formation and gave chase, but the UFO accelerated to the northeast and disappeared. Optical enhancement revealed the same now-familiar UFO. On Nov. 23, 1991 and 7000 miles away, a Japanese couple videotaping the erupting Mt. Unsen, caught sight of a silver shape floating below the crescent moon. They filmed it for nearly an hour, then stopped as they grew weary. The next morning, to their surprise, the UFO still floated in the morning sky! Again, it was the same familiar UFO. On March 4, 1992, the Aircraft Control Tower in Mexico City recorded a group of UFOs on their radar screens. The blips stayed for 40 minutes. It is the producers opinion that the arrival of the UFOs, in conjunction with the Mayan prophesy, suggests that there will soon be a major volcanic eruption. In fact, Mount Popocatepetl began steaming for the first time in years just after the arrival of the UFOs. The area between the two volcanoes is the Pass of Cortez, an area previously devastated by volcanic eruptions. The Mexico government put enough stock in the Mayan prophesies to issue some public warnings. To quote the prologue from the tape: "In May of 1992, the Mexican government warned the population of 40 cities to prepare for the possible catastrophic eruption of the awakening volcanoes. The newspaper, El Universario, carried the article on the front page. In August of 1992, "60 Minutos" presented a one-hour program on the volcanoes, stressing the need for preparedness in the face of an imminent disaster. Although there is no evidence of a cover-up in Mexico, the news of this historical sighting has inexplicably stopped at our border. "Messengers of Destiny" Update I spoke to Lee Elders on January 15. He and Brit had just returned from Mexico covering what has become Phase Two of this incredible UFO flap. On January 1, the UFOs returned, but now there are as many as eight daylight disks hovering in the Mexican skies. Lee said they have videotapes of traffic jams caused by drivers and passengers exiting their automobiles to get a look at the strange disks. This new wave is being seen by a massive number of people. Lee also spoke of his prized video possession, daylight footage of "20 UFOs hovering around a docking station!" Counting the videos he received from his first trip, he now has over 700 tapes of which, by his count, 200 are of very good quality. Of those 200, half are excellent daylight shots. The Elders are producing a second tape covering the ongoing Mexico sightings and plan on marketing it this summer. ** End of File ** Vince didn't include -where- to get ahold of the video so I'll post it here for any one else who's interested. Genesis III Publishing P.O. Box 25962 Munds Park, AZ 86017 The "Messengers of Destiny" video tape is $32.96 . If you're a member of HUFON, you receive a 25% discount. ** EOF ** =========================================================================== NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14267 alt.conspiracy:23978 sci.skeptic:40556 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Bill English radio interview Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:29:57 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.142957.1318@bilver.uucp> Lines: 1431 A few people had asked about more info on Bill English so I dug around and pulled this off my system. It was an interview that Bill had with Rick Barbour, that John Powell was kind enough to transcribe and post to the Odyssey/Bama UFO echo on FidoNet. This is longish so I suggest that some out there in netland please make arrangements to archive this at your chosen site for future reference. NOTE - Bill English is alive and well, and back on the Fido UFO echoes recently. You can contact him directly on his new BBS at 505-682-3564. Don -----------Begin included text--------------------------------------------- (3501) Sun 13 Sep 92 17:44 By: John Powell To: All Re: Bill English Interview St: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [I've removed most of the "uh's", "um's", etc.; most of the extraneous stuff. I've included "..." to indicate when the speaker was interrupted and "--" to indicate when the speaker was rambling or when the speaker was briefly, and unimportantly interrupted. The interviewer is RB and Bill English is BE.] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- INTERVIEW WITH BILL ENGLISH: 6/28/91 85 KOA-Denver, Colorado Interviewer: Rick Barbour RB: My guest this hour is a guy by the name of Bill English and Bill is a Colorado boy although he's out of town right now. And he's got a story to tell that's quite something. Good morning Bill. BE: Good morning Rick. How are you? RB: I'm all right, thanks. Why don't you kind of start this story by how you came to be the fugitive. BE: Well, in 1977 while working for the United States government at a place called RAF Chicksands in England, which is a security services command base, I was a data analyst and I was asked to analyze a document which came across my desk and material in the document was pretty astounding. RB: What was in the document? BE: Well, the document was entitled Grudge Blue Book Report Number 13. RB: Okay, now, Blue Book, if everybody remembers, was the Air Force study of UFO sightings, right? BE: Right. It was Book Number 13 was also the book that they claimed was never published. RB: Uh huh, that was the last in the series? BE: No, there was -- there were thirteen books but they were numbered one through twelve and they skipped thirteen and went directly to number fourteen. RB: Now everybody would say where's thirteen? BE: Uh, exactly. Well, the government tried to cover it up by saying that they never printed the book number thirteen because of superstition. RB: Superstition? BE: Superstition. Number thirteen being unlucky. RB: Oh, I see. Okay. All right. BE: And uh, I've uh... RB: Interesting that the Pentagon is superstitious. I had no idea. BE: Well, it's never been my experience before, but that was the story they were telling everybody. But when I analyzed the document, what it was, was a compilation of everything the government had with regards to uh, unidentified flying objects. RB: Now, you mean physical evidence? BE: Physical evidence to include aliens. RB: Uh, this now, the Blue Book Project lasted from when to when? BE: Uh, I'm not sure exactly what the exact dates are at this point. RB: Well, it started what, in the late 50's or late -- no, late 40's I guess, wasn't it? BE: Late 40's exactly. Actually it started before that with Project Grudge. RB: Huh? Project Grudge? BE: Right. Which was a -- the initial investigation into reports of what they termed at that time as Foo Fighters, which many of the World War II pilots were reporting. RB: They were called 'what' fighters? BE: Foo. RB: How do you spell that? BE: F-O-O. RB: Foo? BE: Foo. RB: Foo. Was that an acronym for something? BE: Uh, no, that was just the name they tagged them with, the pilots did. They were termed Foo Fighters and they started investigating them with Project Grudge and then after the war years the Project Grudge was redesignated Project Blue Book. RB: Okay. Of course at this time the Army Air Corps become the Air Force. BE: Right. RB: All right. And so now the Air Force started this Project Blue Book. Now, it was also because of right after the war -- late forties during the atomic bomb project and subsequent to the testing area, or era, that there was supposed to be a rash of sightings in that -- the late forties or early fifties, right? BE: Exactly, and those sightings -- the very first recorded sighting, official recorded sighting, took place at Mt. Rainier, Washington. I'm sorry, Mt. Rainier, Maryland. And -- RB: Mt. Rainier, Maryland? BE: Right. And after that there were several dozens of sightings. Washington at one point in the mid-fifties was buzzed by UFO's -- Washington, D.C. -- the Capital Building. RB: Was buzzed by a UFO? BE: UFO's. -- RB: By several? BE: Several. RB: And this is when? BE: The mid-fifties, I believe it was. RB: Okay. Now was this widely seen and reported? BE: Well, it was widely seen and it was reported somewhat until it was suddenly stopped by executive order. And -- RB: Well, the mid-fifties I would have been -- Ike? BE: I believe so, right. RB: So, Ike said no publicity. Is that right? BE: Right. RB: Of course by then it'd be a little late wouldn't it? It's like letting -- letting -- closing the gate after the horse has split. BE: Well, you've got to remember that back in those times the government could do no wrong and whenever something was requested for the good of the security of the nation, most everybody kept their mouth shut. RB: I see. Okay, so this was perceived as the good of the nation by not reporting what everybody saw. BE: Right. They didn't want to cause widespread panic. RB: Uh, well, I thought word of mouth is sort of the way panic works, if some -- if everybody in downtown D.C. had seen it, by then they'd know in Baltimore an hour later. BE: Well, I think they were operating under the premise that if it wound up in newspapers and that kind of thing, then there really would be a problem. RB: Were there any photographs? BE: There were several dozen. RB: Oh really? BE: Uh, and uh, at one point, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization right here in Tucson, Arizona had those photographs, but with the demise of Jim and Cora (Lorenzen), then the founders of APRO, the records disappeared for several years until they were recovered recently by the International Center for UFO Studies in Scottsdale, Arizona. RB: Okay, now all of this information was sort of, shall we say discouraged, if not quashed -- BE: Right. RB: Uh, this was in the mid-fifties. Now Project Blue Book was well on its way by this time. BE: By this time it was and way in through the years we've discovered that Project Blue Book turned out to be an eyewash program for the public. Over 90% of the recorded sightings that they reported on, and this does not include the ones that they did not report on, were classified as explainable. But in point of fact, there was a higher percentage that were not -- was not explainable, but they never released these reports. RB: All right, now, you -- let's go back to what happened to you, you came across this number thirteen book. BE: Well, it's Blue Book report number thirteen. RB: Okay. Now what was in it that was so interesting? I mean, physical evidence of alien machines and alien bodies, is that part of -- BE: Well, there were several -- several dozens of photographs and among those photographs they had photographs of recovered vehicles or discs. They had photographs of autopsy reports of aliens -- RB: Now was this -- was this a copy of that report or was this the report? BE: Well, it was an annotated version of a report that had been published in the early 70's, around 1972. And I viewed the document in 1977 at RAF Chicksands. And between '72 and '77 they had added several more pages, in fact the report itself was about six hundred pages long. There were, well photographs of autopsies on aliens, there were reports of human mutilations. RB: Human mutilations? BE: Human mutilations. RB: Now, how did that get in there and how does that fit into anything? BE: Well, it was a -- it was a compilation of everything that they knew at that time concerning UFOs. And they had everything in there. And I personally believe that the designation, Grudge Blue Book 13, was a mistake on their part. But, in point of fact, that's what it was titled and the material that was in -- there was a report which apparently was being circulated around to various governments, and it came into my hands while I was working as a data analyst at RAF Chicksands. RB: Okay, now the report was being passed around to allied military personnel and intelligence personnel to share the data, right? BE: Well not only allied, but the last designated place it had been, according to the transportation sheet, which was attached to the pouch it was in, was at Moscow. RB: Really? Okay, now, you found this book somehow. How did it come to get in that stack you were looking at, I mean did they give it to you to analyze or, I mean, on purpose or, I mean since it would -- would have been prepared by the Air Force, why would you -- why would you end up analyzing it? BE: Well, my job designation was data analyst for security services command and essentially what my job was to do was take information and analyze it for its validity. RAF Chicksands was a security listening post and we monitored radio transmissions from Soviet Bloc nations. And those transmissions were translated, and then it was my job to take the information that was obtained and analyze it to try and make determination as to whether or not the information was factual. RB: Well, that is information that -- that was to see if it was part of misinformation or disinformation too? BE: Right. RB: Okay, so, in other words, you were just trying to see if they were catching on to stuff that we didn't know about, and stuff that we'd been feeding them that they were regurgitating, just to see if it was working? BE: Right. RB: Okay. The spy game? BE: Yeah. RB: Yeah, okay. BE: Essentially that's what it was. RB: All right. So, along comes this report, though what if you were analyzing the data from the Russians and listening post from wherever it is you're listening, how would you end up with this book? BE: Well, specifically my job was to analyze whatever came across my desk, and on this particular day the duty officer who brought us our daily assignments, which we signed for, brought this document in a diplomatic pouch and unsealed it there. I signed for it and I was in my little cubbyhole -- RB: Was that a mistake do you think? BE: Uh, I don't believe so. RB: Well, the reason I ask is, this is -- this was -- this particular document was more than just top secret, right? BE: Oh, very much higher than top secret. RB: So, why would such a document just end up in the hands of an unknown analyst somewhere in Britain -- BE: Well, I don't know that I was unknown, I was the best there was at the time -- RB: Well, all right, I don't want to impugn your work, nor your capabilities, the point is, that from the Pentagon's point of view you were just one more cog in a very big wheel -- BE: Yeah. RB: So, this kind of information is obviously shocking I suppose, to reality as we understand it, comes to you as an analyst. I think that it would seem rather odd that it would just sort of end up in your cubbyhole for analysis. I mean, it's not -- this ain't just any old document, right? BE: No, it wasn't any old document. I believe that there was a reason because there were some photographs which I had taken while in Vietnam. I was in Vietnam from 1970 to '72, and we had a recovery mission over in the jungles in Laos, a downed aircraft. And we were given the assignment to go into Laos and recover the aircraft and recover, if possible, surviving crew members, what they told us were flight recorders and those kind of thing, and which we did. We went in and we found the aircraft. It had not crashed. It was an extremely unusual situation. RB: How so? BE: Well, there was no crash damage to the surrounding jungle. The aircraft was not destroyed. It looked as though it had been placed there in the jungle by a great big giant hand. When we gained access to the aircraft, we went in through one of the hatches. When we gained access to the aircraft, the entire crew was still in their seats, strapped in their safety harnesses and mutilated. RB: Mutilated? BE: Mutilated. And originally we thought at that time that it was the work of VC. RB: Yeah, well it would be a reasonable thought, of course. What kind of a plane was it? BE: It -- we were told it was a B52 and I've always assumed it was. RB: Well, I mean, B52s are hard to mistake. BE: Yeah, it was a very large aircraft. RB: Yeah, well, a B52 everybody can recognize. I mean... BE: There's been some controversy over what it was over the past couple years, but in fact it was a B52. RB: So, a B52 was sitting in the jungle undamaged, no crash damage to the surrounding jungle growth, and as you say, looked like it had been taken and placed there by a giant hand from the sky... BE: A load of bombs in the bomb bays. RB: So, it was a B52. BE: And the crew, the entire crew was still in their jump suits. RB: Okay, now it seems that whatever happened, had happened instantaneously, but it didn't look like it had actually crashed so, the puzzle was, how did the plane this size end up in the jungle, not damaged, everybody in their flight suits, mutilated? BE: Well, we don't know -- RB: I mean, that must have been what you were thinking. BE: Well, that's true, but also you have to bear in mind that we were operating in enemy territory and we -- everybody get in and get out as fast as we could. RB: Yeah, but you did take photographs. BE: Oh yes, I did take the photographs, I collected dog tags. We found no survivors. We recovered the black boxes that were on aircraft, where we were told they were located. And then we placed satchel charges throughout the aircraft and destroyed it with the bodies in it. RB: Why would they do that? BE: Why would we do what? Destroy the aircraft? RB: Yeah. I mean, unless it was flyable, but even then how do you get it out of a jungle? BE: There were several hundred thousand tons of bombs on the thing -- RB: Ah, well, there you are, okay. But you blew it up in place with the bodies on board? BE: The bodies in it. We -- there was no possible way we could transport the bodies out. RB: Yeah, so they were listed as KIA, and that was that. BE: Killed in action. And -- we turned in the material that we got and -- the black boxes, the photographs and the dog tags and whatever records that we found on the aircraft to MAC-V headquarters in Saigon and we forgot about it. RB: Okay, it was just another mission. All right. Now, it's some years later, you're in London and along comes the Blue Book and your photos are in it. BE: Right. RB: Okay and it was -- do you think maybe that's why you got the book, 'cause it was -- some of it was yours? BE: It was -- it's very possible. At the time that we were sent in on the mission, all we were told was an aircraft went down. When I viewed the report, there was a report attached to the photographs which stated that the aircraft had been in radio contact with its base and that it reported that it was under attack by bright objects and then all of a sudden the radio transmissions died. RB: White objects. BE: Very bright objects. RB: Oh, bright objects. BE: Bright objects. RB: Glowing, bright objects and that was all they had. BE: Yeah. RB: I see. After that it was blank and then you got the call to go in and get the stuff. Okay, so it comes across your desk. I'm going to take a break and when we come back, we're going to pick it up what happened after that. RB: You -- you got the book and you took a look and saw what was in it. All right, as an analyst dealing with top secret information all the time, what made this -- what happened when you saw all of this, I mean, as an analyst, what was your responses as you, Bill English, what was your response? BE: Well, as an analyst, I wasn't sure what I was looking at. As Bill English, I was pretty -- pretty incredulous until I started taking a closer look at the material that was in it. RB: And what did you see, what did you find? BE: Well, among other -- among other things there were various technical reports and reports from very well known people, among them was Dr. J. Allen Hynek. I remember Hynek's comments very -- very clearly. He stated that although he had not seen the physical evidence firsthand, based on the report that he had seen, he felt that it was true. RB: That what was true? BE: That the report and the material within the report was true. RB: And the material was again, was the information on the physical evidence of these, whatever they were. BE: Right. RB: Yeah. What did the book assume all of this was? I mean, what did it? BE: Well, there was no assumption at all, it clearly stated that this was material that had been recovered from various crash sites around the country and several South American and European nations. It very clearly stated that it was of alien origin, not of this Earth. RB: Oh, and so it said that this was from outer space? BE: Right. RB: And didn't make any bones about it? BE: None whatsoever. RB: Okay, so there you are, incredulously saying, "My God, the government says there really are UFOs and here's the pictures and all the locations of physical evidence to prove it." So, again, how do you get to be the fugitive? BE: Well, essentially what happened was, after I analyzed the document, I turned in my report as per regulations. Signed the document back over to the officer of the day and promptly forgot about it. RB: And promptly forgot about it? BE: Well, as much as I was able to. You know, we didn't discuss our work -- RB: No, I understand. That's a professional requirement. But incredulity doesn't lead to just forget about it. BE: Uh, no, but you don't talk about things like that and you just sort of mull it over and then you get on with your life. As best you're able. RB: Okay. BE: About two weeks after viewing the document, I reported for work one morning and was told that the base commander wanted to see me and was escorted there by two air security policemen. After waiting for, I guess about thirty or forty minutes, I was escorted into the BC's office, and uh -- RB: That's the base commander. BE: Base commander. And -- was promptly informed by him that my services were no longer needed and that I was being returned to the United States. RB: Um hmm. Any reason given? BE: Not -- not then. I promptly replied -- you know, because at that time -- my wife at that time was a schoolteacher for Department of Defense schools at RAF Chicksands, and I promptly informed him that since technically if I was no longer employed by the government I became a dependent husband. Because she was employed by Department of Defense schools that I'd just go home. And he politely informed me, in no uncertain terms that I was being removed from Great Britain and sent back to the United States. And I then asked him if I could please call my wife and let her know what was going on -- RB: Now you -- they meant to return you immediately? BE: Immediately. RB: You mean that -- that afternoon? BE: That day. RB: My. Normally things don't work that fast in the military that I remember. BE: Me either, but when I asked to call my wife at the school, where she was at, at the time, I was told no. RB: Now, had you figured that something was amiss, that you were being treated this way for something you allegedly had done? BE: I didn't know what to think at the time, because my efficiency reports at that point were very good. I'd had no problems in my job whatsoever. RB: So -- but you had to assume something was going on here. BE: Well, I did. And I asked you know -- you know, okay, what's the problem. Have I broken a regulation or something, and he said no, your services are no longer needed, period. And you're being sent back to the States. RB: Right now. BE: Right now. RB: Right bloody now. BE: Right. And when I requested permission to call my wife at the school to let her know what was happening, permission was refused. And I was escorted by two air security policemen to RAF Lakeinheath [sp] where I was put on an immediate flight. RB: You didn't even get to pack. BE: Not even. RB: Not even a toothbrush. BE: Not even. RB: (whistles.) Boy, so you were flown back to the states -- BE: Flown back to the states -- RB: Okay and again -- BE: (unintelligible.) RB: Okay so what happens to make you the fugitive? I mean, so far it's begun to build up to something, but -- BE: Well, uh, at this point I didn't know quite what to do and had tried several times to contact my family directly and then through friends, and at all turns I was thwarted. RB: They wouldn't let you contact your family? BE: Uh, no, every time I tried to call -- call my home in England, the -- a man's voice would answer. And I was told that those individuals were no longer there. RB: Well, and of course you wanted to know -- well where are they? BE: Yeah and of -- and they hung up on me. RB: I see. BE: And then when I tried contacting friends that lived in England -- who knew my wife and asked them to pass a message on to her, they -- I would call their phone number and the same man's voice would answer. RB: Uh huh. I see. BE: By this time I had met a gentleman by the name of Stanton Friedman who is a fairly well known investigator of the phenomena, and told him my story, what was going on and everything and Jim Lorenzen and the head of APRO at that time very graciously made his records available to me -- RB: I would think at this time you would get an attorney. BE: Well, it was a pretty confusing situation. RB: Well, yeah, but I mean, you're being -- you're being taken immediately out of country, not even to contact your family, how -- I don't know how many weeks it was that they wouldn't let you get in contact with your family. They're obviously distraught. You're distraught. It seems to me that you -- the first thing you'd want to do is to get an attorney to see what the heck's going on here -- BE: We tried and every time I did, no attorney would touch it. RB: No attorney would touch it? BE: No attorney would touch it, they would -- RB: Did you go to the press with this sort of stuff? BE: Well, uh -- RB: I mean, this is not -- this is not ordinary, everyday behavior for the government is it, I mean -- BE: No, it's not. And I didn't go to the press, I went to my father. RB: Uh huh. And how could he help? BE: Well, my father at that time was a member of the Arizona State Legislature. RB: Okay. BE: And we were friends of -- our family was friends of the Barry Goldwater family. And we asked if they could look into it, and I have letters in my file right now which Goldwater had sent back to us, stating quite frankly, he was told to mind his own business. RB: Now, he happens to be a reserve general in the Air Force. BE: Right. RB: Well, and he was also a U.S. Senator at that time. To have him mind his own business is a little extraordinary. BE: Well, he was -- RB: I mean, I -- it is his business, isn't it? I mean to find out what's going on in the military? BE: I would think so. But, he was, he got letters and he was flat out told to mind his own business and stay out of it or he would regret it. RB: That he would regret it? BE: Uh huh. RB: Did you see the letters sent to him? BE: I have copies of the letters in my files. RB: That he would regret -- and from whence came those letters? BE: Uh -- RB: From the Pentagon? BE: No, they're -- according to Senator Goldwater at the time, he went directly and asked for information. RB: He went directly to what, the English base? BE: No. The Department of Defense. RB: Okay, the Pentagon. BE: The Pentagon. Was told to mind his own business. RB: And he got these letters saying -- as such, right? BE: Now, well these are letters that he sent to me. RB: Uh huh. And he got -- and you got copies of letters that were sent to him telling to butt out? BE: Right. RB: Who were they signed by? BE: Umm, there is no signature as far as I could tell. These letters were letters that he had written to me. RB: Oh, I see, I see. So you don't have the copies of the actual letters he received -- BE: Actual letters, no. RB: So meanwhile, your family is still in England, hidden someplace. For how long is it by now? BE: Well, now it's -- it was -- it's been almost fifteen years. RB: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Your family has been missing for fifteen years? BE: Uh, up until a week ago. RB: Up until a week ago? BE: I'm very pleased to say that there is -- there is a happy ending to part of the story. RB: Well this is too bizarre for words. You'd -- you were -- fifteen years and you've just been reunited with your wife and children after fifteen years? BE: Fifteen years. I met my sons and my wife yesterday morning. RB: My god, then I've got to ask the question. What -- did they tell you what the hell happened? BE: Well -- RB: I mean, where have they been for fifteen years? BE: Fifteen years they've been in England. RB: Yeah, but I mean under the protection of some -- BE: Well, uh, according to my wife, what happened was, is that I didn't come home and she called over to work to find out what was going on. They referred her to the base commander's office and the base commander, according to her, informed her that I walked in, turned in my resignation and requested an immediate flight out of the country. RB: I see. BE: And she assumed at that point that I had deserted the family. RB: Why would she assume that? BE: Well, you go to work in the morning and you come home and you find your husband not there and -- RB: No, I got to tell you something. The last thing I'd assume if my wife didn't show up is that she was abandoning. I mean, the thing is to say, this is bizarre, what the hell's going on here? BE: Well, this is what she told me what they had told her. RB: I'm sure they -- whatever they said, but it's your wife. I mean, to readily assume that that was, that she -- that you'd abandon her, I mean, why would she assume that? BE: Well, I really don't know at that point. You know, I can't speak for what happened from her end other than what she's told me took place, but very shortly -- RB: But what about the idea when you called to reach her and the strange man's voice. What was that all about? BE: According to her, she never received any phone calls from me. RB: Well, you never talked to her that's -- BE: Weeks and weeks, and -- RB: Didn't you write letters? BE: Oh, I wrote several dozen letters. RB: She never got one? BE: Never got 'em. RB: Never got 'em. BE: Never got 'em. RB: Okay. So, she -- you were reunited just yesterday? BE: Just yesterday. RB: And so she's been there for fifteen years, and you've never been able to contact her that whole time. Didn't you ever go back to England? BE: No, because my passport was revoked. RB: I see. For what reason? BE: There was a question about my birth certificate. RB: Why, what's wrong with your birth certificate? BE: Well, according to the government, the birth certificate, which I had originally submitted for my passport application, was invalid. RB: Why? BE: Well, it was a hospital birth certificate, which was issued in 1952. And not a state birth certificate. And when we tried to find a state birth certificate in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, because I was born in New Mexico, there was one -- there was nothing there. RB: In other words, according to state records, you were never born? BE: Right. RB: Interesting. All right, so now -- your wife is back and now you've -- kind of pieced together that end. Meanwhile though, you've suddenly ended up being, kind of, again, as they say, kind of the guy on the run. How -- you're back here in the country, what happened that made you the guy on the run? BE: Well, about two years after I returned from England, I managed to get my life somewhat together and then opened up a small business in Tucson, Arizona. And one day, in walk Colonel Robert Black, who was then base commander at RAF Chicksands, and his operations Sergeant Stone. RB: Is this the guy that fired you? BE: This is the guy who fired me. RB: Uh huh. And this is -- this is then two years later, after that incident. BE: Right. RB: Okay. He strolls in with his Sarg. BE: Right. RB: Okay. BE: They tell me that they were cashiered out of the service and forced to retire early. -- RB: Sort of like what happened to you? BE: Yeah, and primarily because of the documents that I had viewed. And we sat and talked about it. Among other things they had told me that they were separated from their families and this, that and the other and they knew what was going on. And among other things that they told me was the fact that they had information which said that there was a UFO buried at White Sands Missile Test Range. RB: Uh huh. BE: The reason why it was there, and it was buried was because it was too big to transport. RB: All right. BE: And after a great deal of discussion, they convinced me that it would might not be a bad idea to try and find evidence of this UFO and make it public. RB: That would not be a bad idea. BE: Well, I sort of agreed with them at the time and I ultimately sold my business and put the money that I got out of the business into the pot, so to speak, and we purchased a vehicle which we outfitted with sand tires and camping equipment and we brought a radar -- a marine radar unit from a marine shop and put it on the van and we had sound detectors and magnetometers and everything and metal detectors and camping gear. RB: Okay. So, then you're heading to White Sands. BE: And we were heading to New Mexico. RB: All right, so you get down to White Sands, and how did you get on the reservation? I -- BE: Well, several locations. We went all up and down both sides and the top of the missile range perimeter. And on several locations we crossed through the fences and very briefly looked around and everything and ultimately we wound up White Sands -- wound up at White Sands National Park. The monument. Back in those days, you used to be able to go out onto the -- out onto the sand dunes at night and camp out. Since then, they no longer do that. But ultimately we went into the National Park and kept on going across the dunes with this sand vehicle that we had outfitted, crossed through the fences north of the national monument and went directly onto the range. Very stupidly, I might add, but in any case, it was about sundown and we were sort of travelling along. I was outside of the van with the metal detector and -- in front of the van lights and they were in the van and I heard a very familiar old sound from Vietnam and just immediately went face first into the dirt. RB: Incoming. BE: Yeah, exactly. And the next thing I know the van is confetti. RB: Is what? BE: Confetti. I mean this thing was just blown to pieces. RB: Uh huh. So -- BE: And then it -- RB: So it was hit with an explosive. BE: Uh, hit with -- with a missile of some kind. RB: Uh huh. BE: And I'm not proud because I'll admit to you that it scared me badly and I took off at a dead run. RB: Well, that's understandable. BE: And, -- I eventually made my way off the range and was able to hitchhike back to Tucson, Arizona. RB: Okay. And hold that because we have to take a break and I guess at this point I guess you are now on the run. BE: At this point, I am just about to go on the run. RB: Okay, you got back to Tucson. You hitchhiked back from Arizona, from White Sands, New Mexico down to Tucson, and then what? BE: Well, I wound up at a friend's house who's another UFO investigator by the name of Wendell Stevens. And almost drowned in his pool trying to find my way to his backyard. And Wendell, much to his credit, when I was scratching on the window, let me in without sticking a gun up my nose. And I told him what had happened and he fed me and let me shower and gave me a shirt and took me back to my apartment in Tucson. RB: Now when -- when -- when was this? BE: This is 1979. RB: Okay. '79. Okay, so you're there kinda getting yourself put back together. BE: Yeah, and telling Wendell what was going on. And Wendell took me back to my apartment, and we came to my apartment, there was a big black car parked in front of the apartment. So I asked Wendell to drop me off about two blocks down, and I snuck in through the back door, through the alley. And for three days I kept looking out the curtain window and there this car sat. Until finally, one day I called a friend and packed my stuff, and moved out and rented a trailer on the east side of Tucson and sold everything off and bought a backpack and some camping equipment and took off. RB: And, was on the run. BE: Was on the run. RB: All right. Now let's go to the telephone. Derek in Denver: Derek: 7 seconds before it's on the radio. RB: Seven seconds? What? Derek: Oh, oops, Hi Rick. RB: Hi Derek. Derek: Hello. RB: Go ahead, Bill's -- Bill's on the other side there. Derek: Hi Bill. I just wanted to ask you a quick question and then I'll hang up. You know, can you touch UFOs? BE: I don't know. I personally have never touched one. I've heard of -- I've got several -- several hundred case reports of people who say that they have, so I -- I personally, I don't know but I would assume that you can. RB: Well, if it's made of mass of some solid object, I guess you can touch a solid object. Do you mean can he touch it when it's -- cause of radiation, or what? Derek: No, just like, touch it, like, you how -- you know, like how you touch a person. RB: Yeah, you mean like a solid object. Derek: Yeah. RB: Yeah, a solid -- in other words, is it a solid object? Derek: Yeah. RB: I guess, what's -- the answer is yes. Derek: All right Rick, thanks. RB: All right Derek. And let's go to Bill in Denver. Bill: Yes, you know, this sounds almost like we need the zither in Orson Welles with the third man theme. RB: Yeah, it sure does. Bill: And remember our friend John, Rick. Years ago? RB: Oh yes, of course I do. Anyway, go ahead and ask Bill a question. Bill: Well, it isn't a matter of asking the question, uh, it's a matter -- I don't know of any Mt. Rainier in Maryland. As a matter of fact, when I was in Maryland, I never saw a mountain in Maryland. Mt. Rainier is in Washington. BE: You're absolutely right and I stand corrected. It is in Washington. Bill: The man that first saw them was a fellow named Kenneth Arnold. I instructed the civilian flight instructor with Cabbage Hill [sp] in Pendleton. And I don't know what Ken was drinking that day but he had quite a mysterious thing, of course they wrote stories in Argosy, Henry Wismer, the newsman was saying, you know, we know what it is, it's good news, it's our ships and everything else. When in fact they didn't know squat. And as you know Rick, I have a little bit of history with respect to the posture like Barry Goldwater's. And I just -- I've known Barry Goldwater for years and I can't imagine anybody telling that man something like that. BE: We found that's astounding too, but I've got his letters. RB: Did you ever talk to the senator directly, and say, Senator, that you're being told to butt out? BE: I haven't, but Senator Goldwater did appear on Larry King show and he told Larry King that he had -- later on had asked for permission to go into a storage facility located at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and permission was denied. Bill: I don't know how the hell you deny a man like that permission to do whatever he wants to do. BE: I have no idea, but he was flat out told no. Bill: Were you by chance with DIA? BE: No, I wasn't. Bill: You weren't. Because all of the trappings and all the traces that you talk about, monitoring the radio broadcasts, radio books and this type thing, smacks of what I used to do when I was the DIA. BE: It was a division of NSA. Bill: It was division of NSA. RB: All right. Bill: You know George Keagan. You remember George Keagan? BE: The name is familiar. Bill: George Keagan was the Air Force general, George Keagan. He was the one that was stomping for particle beam weapons and thought, of course, that the Russians had been here for years. This is about as viable, I think, as -- do you recall a story of Paul Mantell? BE: Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. Bill: I knew Paul Mantell. Paul Mantell allegedly had a P51 blasted out of the sky. I've flown P51s, I've instructed for P51s and P51s don't get blasted out of the sky. When a man thinks he sees something that he can't climb fast enough to get, and he climbs fast enough -- or climbs as fast as he can in a P51, it has a tendency to stall. And when it stalls it goes into an incredibly sickening flat spin. And when it hits the ground, there's not much left of it. BE: Well, isn't that what they -- what the official report was that happened to him? Bill: I think it was. He was a National Guard pilot. I think in Montana or Minnesota. RB: Well, nevertheless, your point is, is that he didn't get zapped, he just went into a spin and crashed. Bill: You know, it still sounds like H.G. Welles and it sounds like Star Trek and -- RB: But, it's interesting, isn't it? Bill: Well, I don't know whether it is or not. You know, Little Orphan Annie is interesting if you don't mind Sandy going Arf! Arf! RB: No, Bill, you see, you're trying to mistake reality with entertainment. Bill: Well, last time I saw entertainment, the sheriff closed it, you know before the -- RB: Well, see, and Lord knows I'm trying to keep ahead of the sheriff Bill. Bill: Okay, Rick. RB: Okay. Talk to you later. And let's continue on the telephone with, let's see, where do we go from here, he said. Let's go to Jean in Cap Hill. Hi Jean. Jean: Yes, I'm sorry to have to ask this, but I missed the very first part of it and I just wondered if you could please reiterate for me what was so dangerous about what you read. The general gist of it that would make it so they would do this to you. BE: Well, I believe that it was classified information that was not intended to be released and they were afraid that I would make it public. Jean: Well, I mean what was the gist of this classified information? RB: UFOs. Jean: But, why is -- why was that information so much dangerous than any other that has come out? BE: Well, essentially what it was, was the government admitting that the UFOs existed and that they had physical evidence of it. And that they had been lying to the people for years and years and years. In the past, a lot of people have referred to this as a Cosmic Watergate. And can you imagine the difficulties it would cause if the government was to come out tomorrow and admit that, yeah there are UFOs and yes, we've known about them for years and we've covered it up to the point where we've even committed murder. RB: There's your answer Jean. Jean: All right. Thank you. RB: Okay. In Colorado Springs, Jeff. You're on with my guest, Bill English. Jeff: Yes, thanks Bill. I just wanted to know if you're going to be speaking anywhere in the Denver area soon. BE: No, I haven't been invited, but I am going to be speaking in Orlando, Florida at the end of August at Walt Disney World. RB: Walt Disney World? BE: Walt Disney World. RB: Fascinating. Jeff: Well, how long are you going to be in the area? BE: Well, I'll be in Orlando for a week -- Jeff: Oh, I see, you're calling from there. RB: No, he's not. Right now he's in Tucson. BE: I'm in Arizona. Jeff: I tuned in late, okay. RB: You should never tune in late, you miss so much. Jeff: Now -- now Rick, on your show a couple of months ago, I heard where this person announced that he was going to be coming out with a special on abductions. Do you know anything about that Bill, and why there was a delay on that? BE: Which -- Jeff: It's supposed to be in -- It was supposed to be this last February -- BE: There have been so many different programs on abductions in the last several months it's -- I'm having a difficult time pinning it down. Jeff: It particularly pertained to MJ-12 and -- BE: That would probably be Bob Lazar on Current Affairs. Jeff: Oh, well, yeah -- do you know of the latest on that situation? BE: Uh, well, the latest is that we have been able to prove that Bob Lazar did in fact work at Los Alamos. We've got -- RB: You better fill us in now, you've brought him up. Jeff: I'm sorry about that. I'm going to let you guys go, but that's an extremely interesting story and please do Bill, please explain Bob Lazar in detail. RB: All right. Okay. Bob Lazar in de -- well Bob Lazar not quite in detail. BE: Bob Lazar is a gentleman who claimed he worked for the government at a test site in Nevada of the Atomic Energy Commission range in a place called area 51 S4. And he claimed that part of his job was to work as a physicist and analyze and test fly UFOs that the government had captured. At first, his claims were pretty outlandish and were thought to be, but he passed two out of three lie detector tests. We were able to determine that he did in fact work at Los Alamos National Laboratories. Two ways. One, his name was listed in the Los Alamos phone book, in the physics department. And I personally went up to Los Alamos and visited the Ray Bradbury science museum up there. And there was a picture of Bob Lazar out on display called the Los Alamos employees in the community. RB: So, suffice to say he used to work there. BE: He used to work there. We have not been able to make any real determination as to whether or not he worked in area S4 or area 51. This is more popularly known at the Nevada test site, however, recently Bob did receive a W2 form from the Navy for that time period he says he worked at that area. RB: So, he was there. So what happened to Bob? BE: Maybe he was, yeah. RB: What happened to Bob? BE: Well, Bob is currently living in Las Vegas. He is on probation. RB: For what? BE: Well, when all this stuff became public and George Knapp aired the initial report on local television in Las Vegas, Bob was arrested because he installed a business computer system in a house of ill repute. And he was charged with criminal solicitation. RB: I see. I see, okay. So, -- BE: Installed a business -- business machine in a whore house. RB: Well, then, that'll get you every time. Let's go back to the telephone. In Oklahoma, Gene. Gene: Hi Rick. I'd like to ask your guest, what's his name? RB: Bill English. Gene: Okay. Have you heard of an author, and he was in the Air Force, in Australia by the name of Stan Deyo? BE: Yeah as a matter of fact I have. He wrote a book about Australia and UFOs. Gene: Cosmic Conspiracy? BE: Uh huh. Gene: Okay. Is he pretty valid? He had some really weird things to say. BE: Well, uh. He's about as valid as you can get under the circumstances. Gene: His stories sound something like yours other than the kidnapping and things, or so called. He was working a lot with low frequency soundwaves and magnetic fields for steering UFOs. Pretty interesting book, but I used to sell books and I had to give mine away and then I had a real hard time getting that book again. RB: All right. All right Gene. Thanks a lot. 623-8585, the number in Denver, Gene. Gene: Hello Rick. RB: Yeah, you're on. Gene: Yeah, really is that a -- Sir, you are a very unusual man. BE: Thank you. I'm not sure whether that's a curse or a compliment. Gene: That's a compliment sir. As recently as your last encounter with some of the people who are -- you are leaving behind in going, God knows where, what were they like when they - - before you picked up these files. Were they like -- RB: They, being the government? Gene: They being the government on the -- on the -- you know, where you used to work at -- RB: You mean, in England? Gene: In England, yeah. RB: Where he worked with his colleagues and the base and all that jazz. And you want to know were they -- everything was on the up and up and suddenly everything went weird, right? Is that the question? Gene: Yeah, I mean, what like -- did they put it as a plant to get you to do this? RB: To see if they could get rid of him. Gene: To get rid of you. BE: You know, throughout the years I've always said that's it's a possibility that the material that I viewed was fraudulent, but I don't think it was. RB: In other words, it was put there so they could have an excuse to dump you? But what an elaborate scheme to do so. BE: I don't think it was put there as an excuse to dump me. I think, if anything, it possibly could have been an elaborate plan to create this information. RB: Uh huh. By the government? BE: By the government. RB: Well, then if they're going to do that, we'd have told everybody about the copy 13 and then we'd all read it and say, see how silly it is. BE: Well, that's possible, but like I said before, I don't believe it was. Gene: Oh, I've been out to New Mexico. RB: Yeah, well, so have I, but anyway. 623-8585. Joe in Greeley. Hi. Joe: Hi. I wanted to ask him -- Bill English, that's his name? RB: That's his name, yeah. Joe: I've read something, I don't remember where it was at, but it was something on a hangar. Where the government had a crashed UFO. They took the bodies to this thing -- BE: You're referring to -- RB: Hangar 18. BE: Hangar 18. Joe: That's it. I just wanted to know the validity of that? BE: There is no such thing as Hanger 18. However, there is a Hangar 13. RB: And that's at Wright-Pat, isn't it? BE: That's at Wright-Patterson and that's -- RB: And that's in, what, Ohio? BE: Uh-huh. RB: Yeah. BE: And that's where they -- it's reputed they've been storing this. We did come across information about a year ago from a gentleman who was at Wright-Patterson when they brought the material from Roswell there, who claim that he was invited to view the bodies. [end of tape, nearly end of interview.] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** EOF ** ============================================================================= NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the *best* way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14268 alt.conspiracy:23979 sci.skeptic:40557 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Cooper expose' - Article 1 Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:31:34 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.143134.1452@bilver.uucp> Lines: 550 AREA:UFO Sun 28 Feb 93 12:40 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Whistleblowers - Cooper --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This was written by Don Ecker in the summer of 1990 for UFO Magazine, in which it appeared as part of a series. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As many of you know, UFO Magazine completed a story and investigation on Milton Wm. Cooper in Vol. 5, No. 4 and 5. Cooper, a very controversial figure in the UFO field, has been making claims and pronouncments for the last several years. We spoke to many that know him, and for you folks that are new here at ParaNet, Cooper made his debut right here. At that time ( in 1988 ) he was "made" as a fraud by the former Administrator Jim Speiser, and was removed from the system. I have just received a copy of "NEW TIMES" NEXUS, a magazine that is published in Australia. The issue is Volume 2 Issue 1 dated October 1990. In this magazine is a story by Cooper with his "Operation Majority". Now during the UFO Magazine investigation, we found most of this to be fabricated or information that Cooper plagerized. However it is a fact of life that not everyone reads UFO, and Cooper is public in every area he can attain to. So I am going to place the entire Two part story right here for all of ParaNet to read. One other thing, I am also going to include a couple of things that did not reach publication, because of space, and also the fact that at the time we did not wish to "crucify" Cooper. However, to paraphrase George Knapp, News Director of KLAS TV in Las Vegas, "Cooper is like a cornered rat, desperate, vicious and vile." He has "smeared, lied, threatened, and libled everyone that has disagreed with him. With that, here is "Whistleblowers Part ONE. All Rights Reserved UFO Magazine. ---ooo--- Who are the UFO whistleblowers? They come out of relative obscurity and burst into the center of ufological attention. Making incredible claims of alien activity on earth and the Government's deep but covert involvement. Without exception, the whistleblowers of recent times only furnish the most hazy evidence of their claims, if that. Oftentimes they will also lay claim to having worked with or for the government, in high enough positions to wield security clearances and to have observed the most unequivocal documentation. Because these individuals fail to furnish proof for their startling claims, and because many people have asked UFO Magazine for a readout on their credibility, we are beginning a series of investigative articles on certain individuals who fall into the "Whistleblower" category. Normally, UFO avoids focusing on personalities, preferring to concentrate on the phenomenon itself. But these personalities force us to make an exception. Their material has appeal and sensation value. But is it legitimate? Who are the whistleblowers who are telling the truth? Who are the ruthless Pied Pipers forging a trail of lies and deception? Our series begins with Milton William Cooper. COOPER In the last several years, few have stirred the field of ufology like Milton William Cooper. Cooper, born May 6, 1943, is a balding 47-year- old man who has enthralled thousands with lurid tales of dangerous UFOs and secret government treaties allowing the alien menace to abduct and experiment on unwilling human victims in exchange for advanced alien technology. Raining threats and pronouncements over the UFO field like a continuously firing shotgun, Cooper has recently leveled charges of government spookery against a number of prominent ufologists in the field, in many cases claiming to have seen their names on a government recruitment list back in 1972 and 1973 while he was purportedly serving in Naval Intelligence in CINCPACFLT (Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet). Not above accusing former friends and associates, Cooper has charged various ufologists with illegal acts, moral turpitude and of purveying disinformation that permeates the field. Now with an agent to book speaking engagements at any and every UFO event possible, Cooper is very fond of stating to his audiences, "Don't take my word for it, go out and check the information yourself." UFO Magazine has, and the following is the result of our investigation. Paranet debut Who is M. Wm. "Bill" Cooper, and where did he come from? Cooper's first public appearance resulted when he uploaded a text on ParaNet, the international computer data service. The file alleges a fantastic UFO sighting while Cooper was a crew member of the U.S.S. TIRU, a United States Naval submarine, in 1966. According to Cooper, the sighting took place while he was on duty as port lookout. Claiming that the sub's skipper immediately classified the incident, Cooper reported that when the submarine reached port, the witnesses were debriefed by Naval Security. During this time frame of Cooper's initial appearance on the scene, John O. Lear, son of William "Bill" Lear of Lear Jet fame, had also been undergoing ParaNet scrutiny as a result of the release of his hypothesis concerning an alien threat. Lear's document, released in December of 1987, had created quite an uproar in its own right. Lear alleged that the U.S. government had entered into a relationship with a possible ET intelligence, and in exchange for super technology gave carte blanche to the ETs to conduct experiments and abductions on unsuspecting human beings. Lear also claimed that the ETs, with our government's knowledge, were mutilating domestic animals such as cattle and sheep, and in some cases even human victims. Because much of Lear's information was hypothesis, and little checkable information was forthcoming, many ParaNet members and others in the UFO community were asking very hard questions. In a number of instances, Lear's credibility was attacked. When he again visited the ParaNet system, Cooper allied himself with Lear, publicizing the claim that because of releasing his UFO infor mation, he had just been terminated from his $75,000 a year job as the executive director of a commercial business school. In October of 1988, Cooper contacted this writer, requesting a favor. Telling me at that time that "this is dangerous if anyone finds out," he asked me to accept the electronic transfer of a file into my computer, to be sent to Stanton Friedman with the information of who wanted Friedman to see it. The document included information about purported government UFO involvement under the terms MAJI, MJ-1, THE BLUE TEAM, GRUDGE, etc. -and, according to Cooper, various other alleged secret government projects dealing with the alien presence. I agreed to send the information to Friedman. (I never heard anymore about it until later, when Cooper was barred from ParaNet because of claims of feeding false and fraudulent information.) I basically forgot about the file to Friedman until Cooper released additional files with the claim that they were the final release. But subsequently Cooper was to release several "final" releases. In one, he claimed, "MJ-12 is the name of the secret control group. The Jason Society [was set up] to sift through all the evidence, technology, lies and deception . . ." But later, in another file, he stated, "MJ-12 cannot be used as a name for the control group as it would cause confusion in meaning, i.e., is it referring to MJ-12 the person or MJ-12 the group...?" (Italics added) By this time, I and others were becoming confused with the various "final releases." Project 'Luna' In another public release, Cooper claimed that "Project Luna" was an alien base on the far side of the moon which had been observed by various astronauts, but changed the story in one more "Final release," stating that it was the code name for an underground base near Dulce, New Mexico. In Cooper's later releases are a number of names that were never mentioned in earlier releases, names such as JOSHUA and O.H. KRLL or KRLLL, or CRLL, CRLLL, or even KRILL. When it comes to answering whether these claims will bear up under serious scrutiny, these names prove to be very important, as later information in this article will show. Whistleblowers Part Two UFO Magazine Vol 5 No 5 by Don Ecker All rights reserved. In part one of this series, UFO focused on the background of Milton Wm. Cooper. Cooper's information raises many questions, especially in light of its sensationalist nature and the potential harm it may cause to unsuspecting, gullible innocents. During the latter part of 1988 and the very first part of 1989, Cooper's story varied widely from what he is presently disseminating. In early January 1989, Cooper was interviewed by a California researcher, Paul Shepherd. An excerpt of this interview follows. Cooper: "While serving in the United States Navy in 1972, I participated the intelligence briefing team of the Commander-in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet . During this participation on the intelligence briefing team, I came across a document called the Grudge Bluebook Report Number 13, and a file called the Majesty File . classified Above Top Secret with a MAJIC classification, which means MAJI controlled; MAJIC is the Majestic Agency for Joint Intelligence. It is the organization that controls all the operations with UFOs and with an alien race that is present on the Earth." In later interviews, and especially after he began accusing researcher Bill Moore of being an agent of the secret government, Cooper began claiming that any file with the word "Majestic or forms thereof, are a fraud, a lie." Attempting to check on Cooper's claim of belonging to a permanent intelligence briefing team while serving in the Navy between 1970 and 1973, which would have allowed him access to some classified documents, UFO called the United States Navy to determine how the Navy conducts its briefing teams. UFO spoke to Lt. Commander Ron Morse at the Office of Information-West. Lt. Commander Morse stated that the Navy did not have permanent briefing teams, but would form a temporary one on a need basis. "Usually if a team is put together, it will last for no more that two weeks," Morse said. Many of Cooper's claims have been disputed not only by John Lear and Bob Lazar, but also by Tony Pelham, former reporter for the Las Vegas Bullet newspaper. All three men told UFO Magazine that Cooper admitted early on that he had never been on a briefing team, but had in fact "taken the documents, copied them and then returned them." "Cooper told me that while he worked on the graveyard shift, he would wait for the Lt. JG [Junior grade] to go on a coffee break, and then somehow get into the classified files," Pelham said. "l asked him if he broke into the files, but he never answered me. "Cooper then told would take a number of files,copy them, and then carry them out in his lunch pail. He said he did this until he got all the files he needed." Cooper called Pelham in early August. "He asked me why I had turned away from him. He is really upset about all the people who are attacking him . he said that if I turned against him, he will crucify me next." Pelham also reports that when he asked Cooper about his claim that all his stolen government documents were lost in a garage fire, Cooper refused to give the date or location of the fire so Pelham could check the police or fire records, and would give no explanation for refusing to provide information that would validate his story. Other unsubstantiated information from Cooper has apparently stimulated the fears and concerns of some people who have undergone the "abduction"experience. East coast researcher Marianne Shenefield, a nationally-known abductee who works with many abductees, called UFO on several occasions and expressed her own concern about what she heard while dealing with abduction victims. She told UFO, "When Bill Cooper's paper 'The Secret Government' came out, I had abductees all over the U.S. calling me. Cooper said in his paper, and was claiming in his lectures, that the government was going to round up abductees and put them in concentration camps. "I knew it was going too far when two abductees whom I have worked with were talking about committing suicide. They were terrified that the Army was going to come into their homes and take them off to concentration camps." Cooper has stated that he doesn't care who his information hurts or who it helps, but that he will continue to put it out there because people "deserve the truth." In his paper "The Secret Government," Cooper falsely claimed that "Stanton Friedman has told me and many others that years ago he helped develop a nuclear reactor the size of a basketball, to power an aircraft. It was clean, turned out hydrogen, and worked like a dream". UFO called Friedman, a respected nuclear physicist and one of the top ufologists in the United States. "Cooper's claim is totally fraudulent," Friedman stated. "There is no truth to it at all." Friedman expressed bewilderment when asked why he thought Cooper would make that claim. THE "Orange" UFO Magazine was present in the fall of 1989 at a UFO conference hosted by the UFO Data Research and Intelligence Center, in Modesto, California. Bill Cooper was one of the speakers, and during the course of his lecture was asked by a member of the audience if he knew how many types of aliens were presently on earth. Cooper answered, "There are four types, and four only. one group (is) very human looking; as a matter of fact they are starring on television in "Alien Nation," the Orange. . According to the casting director of Alien Nation, Irene Kagan, these remarks of Cooper's are totally false. "I can assure you that all the 'alien' actors on the show are human," she said. "I hired them." On a recent broadcast of the "Billy Goodman Happening" on KVEG from Las Vegas, researcher Lars Hansson (see article, p. 17) debated Cooper on the air and pointed out some of the inconsistencies that Cooper has espoused. Hansson brought up the fact that at one time Cooper himself gave Bob Lazar his "stamp of approval." Cooper vehemently denied ever having endorsed Lazar's authenticity, UFO has been following the Lazar story since it broke upon the UFO scene. Cooper's claim that he never gave Lazar his support or claims of legitimacy is untrue. On November 21, 1989, Bob Lazar was a guest on the Billy Goodman Happening, and during the audience call-in phase of the show, Cooper phoned in and said the following over the air: "I'd like to clear up a couple of misunderstandings here. Number 1, I would really like to thank Bob Lazar for coming forward. I have been talking to him for the last year, along with John Lear, we have met in groups and privately. The man (Lazar) is a wealth of information. I am tickled pink that he has finally decided to come forward and use his real name, because it helps all of us. the reason he has gotten into this predicament is because he is a Patriot. He cares about this country and that is what made him do this. . ." Goodman then broke in, saying, "That's beautiful, Bill, an unsolicited testimonial, basically, that's what it comes down to. " Then Cooper continued, "First, I'd like to say that I personally, and also Tony Pelham and also the Channel 8 news staff-George Knapp and several other people, John Lear-we have all investigated this man's background thoroughly because we did not want to be sucked into a trap by the government. And I can tell you that he is who he says he is. He has worked at Los Alamos. He is a physicist, he is a theoretical physicist. He has worked at Area S4 in Groom Lake. We have verified all of this-not just me but several other people, and I have verified it by two different sources of mine who are in the government. One is at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories . We are always on the lookout for somebody trying to trap us and something that we ean be discredited by. We have to do that [background research] to protect our own credibility." Cooper has subsequently attacked Lazar with claims that he knew all along that Lazar was fraudulent. In his CAJI Newsletter, he now presents a completely different tone than before, and writes of "Lazar, the so-called physicist who claims to have seen flying saucers. This information was not included into the Cooper story, and as promised, I will now relay it. Cooper, during his initial exposure in the public, was on the Billy Goodman Happening over a year ago. One of the people that heard Cooper was a well known Hollywood entertainment figure, Michael Callan. Callan was fascinated by the information that Cooper was giving, and ended up contacting Cooper. Callan, and a close friend of his, Doug Deane, decided that they would use their entertainment contacts, and professionally "market" Cooper. Callan and Deane set up a business called "Need to Know Productions", and sunk money into setting up Cooper on the "lecture tour". Callan and Deane videoed Coopers lectures, and gave him the benefit of their combined knowledge of Hollywood to go out and sell himself. Setting up Cooper at lectures, and finding an agent for him at "Spotlight Enterprises", Callan and Deane made a heavy investiment. Cooper signed a contract with Deane and Callan, and when he saw how much money he "could" be making, tried to squeeze Callan and Deane out of their contract. Callan had had suspicions earlier when Cooper spoke to him about trying to squeeze Stan Barrington (business manager) out, but then Cooper found out that it would cost him $15,000. Barrington stayed, but one night, Cooper indulging in his childish temper tantrums, and drinking heavily, made 10 ( thats TEN ) phone calls to both Callan and Deane, threatening them with public ruin, death, property damage, and slander if they did not give him the master copies of the tapes that they had videoed for him. Both men (Callan and Deane) ended up phoning the police, and they had Cooper placed on file. Later, Cooper went to Deanes home, was witnessed by Deanes gardner, and tried to force his way into Deanes house. Later, when Deane returned home, found all the tires on his car slashed. It is interesting to note, that one of Coopers threats to Deane mentioned his car tires. The police investigated, but it ended up that no charges were filed. Prior to the above events, one of Coopers invitations to speak were from a German UFO groups. Cooper was invited by Michael Hesseman, a German "New Age UFOlogist" to appear in Germany. Cooper had accepted, and demanded 5000 Duetch Marks ( $3000 US ) plus his plane ticket, room, board, and the other things that Hesseman had promised. Hesseman sent Cooper all of the above, but because of a German Postal Strike, word of the event was late in getting out in Europe. Cooper had planned, according to Hesseman, in making money in "workshops" while the UFO event was going on, and because the event would not be so well attended, became upset.Hesseman offered to reschedule the event, or set it up later, but Cooper refused, and then told Hesseman that if he wanted him to come, he needed another 5000 Duetch marks, or he refused. Hesseman did not have the money, so Cooper informed Hesseman that he would not fly over, and then refused to refund Hessemans cash. WHISTLEBLOWERS PART ONE SIDEBAR. In his CAJI newsletter, Cooper stated that "No one likes to be a fool, but most ufologists are exactly that. I keep saying to do research, to investigate, but no one does it. They just sit around and call each other names." This reporter, representing UFO Magazine, attempted to contact Cooper to verify his claims by leaving a message on his computer service. Cooper read the message and called about an hour later. When I answered the phone, Cooper growled, "What the hell do you want!?" When I attempted to explain that I was doing a story for UFO and wanted to verify his claims, he shot back, "What are you writing for your f***in' trashzine?" I then said that I had received a copy of the CAJI newsletter and he replied, "I would be very careful if I was you. That newsletter is copyrighted." Cooper then stated, "I don't trust you or anyone you are associated with. " The only response I was able to get concerned the allegation that Bob Lazar ran a speed lab. "John Lear told me that out of his own mouth... I got the information from a man named Cory and Jeff who are good friends of John Lear. " Just at that moment the phone rang with the call waiting feature, and Cooper refused to hold 'til I could find out who was calling. He refused to speak any further and hung up. This seems out of character for a person who claims that his information is legitimate. As UFO Magazine was going to press, and as we expected, Cooper's newest newsletter attacked this writer and the magazine. Cooper now claims that Cory Testa was intimidated by UFO regarding the claims that Bob Lazar is involved with drugs, and that UFO or myself or both are a part of Cooper's paranoiac "secret government." The absurdity of this speaks for itself. But for the record, UFO will attempt to get Testa's version of this. Researching and accurately reporting facts are not Cooper's strong suit.-D.E. And UFO MAGAZINE CO- Publisher says... There you have it. Don Ecker's article, documentary reports researched and produced by George Knapp of KLAS-TV and what Cooper has published in his CAJI newsletter are part of a growing information base which should demonstrate why we have chosen not to give space to the often false and specious claims that Cooper purveys. It is not our intention to single out individuals and "pick on" them; it's simply very important that the truth or the closest thing to it be established. A close reading of our whistleblowers series, as it progresses, will demonstrate that there are people in this field who have set themselves up for examination and whose claims of truth are, at best, cleverly-mouthed chunks of propaganda; some if not most will be found wanting. Milton William Cooper has threatened, lied about and attacked a number of people in the UFO field (I'm included, as is Don Ecker). Along with slander and lying, he has a clear history of con tradicting himself, backtracking when caught in those contradictions and then attempting to patch up his story with a turnaround position based on sudden new claims that, true to style, cannot be checked out. A Bill Cooper could not maintain a foothold in any other field. Such a bullying personality would have been "run out of town" long ago. But the fact that this man and others like him still can command some audience and are seen as having some veracity and authority denotes a sore lack of discrimination on the part of many in the UFO arena, if not outright foolishness. But it should be likewise emphasized that this syndrome also testifies to our collective frustration with the lies and secret machinations of some powerful persons in the U.S. government, cultivating many people's willingness to listen and 'follow just about anyone who purports to be defending the Constitution and who vocally demands accountability from the very government officials in whom we should be able to place our trust. It's so very important: Dedication to the absolute truth, to the finer points of democracy, when exercised without caution and discernment, plays right into the hands of those who would short circuit those very precious qualities we hold dear. "Users" of all political persuasions will exploit the emotional fervor of the crowd to further their own selfish and inhumane ends. (Some names to remember: Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels, Joseph Stalin, Joe McCarthy.) It's imperative that we and I include everyone who shares the vision of UFO Magazine-short-circuit such perniciousness at its very core, striking at the heart of demagoguery with persistent courage and honesty. Only personal commitment to humane and truthful ideals, and the willingness to expose the truth, can successfully overcome The Big Lie. UFO Magazine honors just such a commitment. Vicki Cooper IN DEFENSE OF THE FACTS When I began to look at Cooper's UFO-related information, our pur pose was to examine his claims and see how valid they were. This endeavor started with Cooper's CAJI newsletter, and his claims that people such as Bob Lazar, John Lear, Bill Moore and others were engaged in various illegal or unethical acts. But back in April and May of 1990, Lazar, for instance, had NO criminal charges even pending. Apparently Lear was targeted by Cooper only because he appeared on the George Knapp special and exposed some of Cooper's bogus information over the air. When UFO tried to contact Cooper, he immediately blew up. Sure enough, before too long he launched a smear campaign against the magazine and this writer. Cooper has even called the magazine and threatened to sue unless we print a complete retraction of Part One, published in UFO, Vol. 5, No. 4. Never a word that parts of the story (in his opinion) are wrong, not a word that he wants his side told in these pages. Instead, in his latest newsletter, Cooper has resorted once more to smearing, innuendo and libel. He even engages in an in credibly sophomoric, juvenile display by making scatological parodies of my name, George Knapp's, and Vicki Cooper's. I, for one, wiIl not be intimidated. UFO Magazine wilI continue to report the truest facts available, and what is nice about reporting facts is... they can be shown to everyone at any time. What is really sad about this story is the fact that I agree with much of what Cooper says when he is speaking about an erosion of Constitutional civil liberties. There are bizarre things afoot in the land, each day becomes more uncertain, and the public is simply not being told the true facts. However, one thing about the First Amendment, that although it guarantees freedom of speech, it does not allow the screaming of fire (with no fire) in a crowded theater. Cooper has been screaming fire on rainy days, and the problem with that is... What do you do when a real fire starts? Just like the kid who always cried wolf, no one came when the wolf finally showed up. What it appears we are dealing with is demagoguery. Demagoguery in any form, with people following blindly, is always a dangerous development. Examine everyone's information, do not accept anything without checking it to the extent you are able, and then check it again from another angle, if possible. UFO Magazine's opinion is that this field is fraught with enough dangers; tread carefully while walking down this path. During this investigation UFO Magazine has found that much of Cooper's material is entirely fabricated, lifted from others'work, or facts he's selected and twisted to support his own story. Several times Cooper has told those who have disagreed with him or questioned his information, "I will crucify you. . ." At what point will someone allow a demagogue to intimidate him or her into silence? At what point will truth be the final casualty in a war of words with liars? I will report the truth as long as we publish, and if necessary suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous slander. At some point the public will learn that each demagogue DOES have his 15 minutes in the sun, but then the public learns WHAT IS THE TRUTH. Don Ecker ** End of File ** ========================================================================= NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14269 alt.conspiracy:23980 sci.skeptic:40558 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Cooper expose' - Article 2 Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:32:43 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.143243.1586@bilver.uucp> Lines: 847 AREA:UFO Sun 28 Feb 93 11:43 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Ecker expose' - Lear/Cooper --------------------------------------------------------------------------- As long as there are newer users to the UFOlogy field and to the various UFO echoes, this text will be posted on an ongoing basis. This is an expose' that Don Ecker wrote on Bill Cooper and John Lear. Many of the newer users to the echo are constantly asking as to whether or not Lear's or Cooper's claims can be taken seriously. This text hopefully answers some of those questions. See also Whistleblowers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #7181 - ASK_UFO Date : 30-Aug-91 0:32 From : Don Ecker To : ALL Subject : EXPOSE The following message may seem a bit obtuse at first, but please read on for a moment and you will catch what is going on. In my job as Director of Research for UFO Magazine, I get to meet sometimes strange but also very interesting people. Also as Director, I oft times get documents, books, and papers for the mag that I can peruse before most of the public. Also, having been involved with ParaNet since the end of 1987 the beginning of 1988, I have seen a lot happen in the field and with ParaNet both good and bad. Late in 1987 Jim Speiser, the founder of ParaNet was at the helm as Director. I was Co-Sysop with the old ParaNet RHO, now no longer in service. In late December 1987, Jim Speiser received the now famous, or perhaps more to the point, infamous *LEAR.DOC* that set parts of the UFO field on fire. For any of you that were not around then, for months and finally years, and now even, people have read Lears paper, and the turmoil continued. Months later, after Lear "surfaced", another character hit the field. This guys name is now also famous, or more to the point, infamous ** Milton William Cooper. Cooper, now known for his attacks on most researchers, accusing them of being govt. agents, etc. was much more restrained in those days. After Lear had his paper posted, many of the then ParaNet users, had many questions for "Lear and Co." As time went on, Lear grew tired of people asking him about sources, etc. and more often than not would fire back. Cooper then began to ally himself with Lear. Cooper came on the seen with a report about having sighted a UFO while a crew member on a U. S. Sub, the TIRU. A short while later, after covertly sending a file to Speiser to be forwarded to Stanton Friedman, and then also sending a file to me to send to Friedman, ( without Speiser or me knowing about the other ) Cooper began to upload all kinds of wondrous files with some outrageous claims and documents. Of course he also came under some fire here because he could not prove one damn thing that he claimed either. AND, OF COURSE ONE HELL OF A LOT MORE HAPPENED. But we will leave that for another day. What is all of this, and why is it here? Well, one of Coopers big drawing cards at his $25.00 and $35.00 per head lectures has been the Kennedy Murder. Cooper has been showing a VERY POOR COPY of the famous Zapruder film that "looks as if" the driver of Kennedy's car turns around and shoots him with a pistol. The film was originally worked on by a Kennedy researcher by the name of Lars Hansson. For any of you that read my two parter on Cooper in UFO Magazine, in part two Hansson discussed this entire sorry episode. But you are still asking what is this about? Ok....... During all this business with Lear, Cooper, etc. Hansson was off and on in Las Vegas, and spent a great deal of time with Lear. Hansson lived for a while in Lears guest house, did odd jobs for Lear while working on his research, and Lears UFO stuff. Hansson was right in the middle of Lear, Cooper, Lazar, and many other things, and for a number of reasons, Hansson and Lear "fell out". Hansson also has been a very active researcher in illegal government covert operations, arms trade, Iran-Contra, etc., and has just finished an explosive expose entitled "UFOs, ALIENS, and `Ex'-intelligence Agents: Who's Fooling Whom?" The Inside Story of John Lear, Bill Cooper, and The Greatest Coverup in Human History. This is a 300 page AFFIDAVIT by Lars Hansson, and is available for $25.00 plus 3.00 postage and handling. If you are interested you can send for it at; Paragon Research & Publications P.O. Bx 981 Orlando, FL. 32802 I have gone through my files, and the next several messages go back to those days in 1988 and 1989. After I get those messages up, read them and then in a couple days I will upload sections from Hansson's book. If you are interested in the real story ( other than UFO Magazine of course ) of what went on with Lear, Cooper, the U.S. Govt. and what may have been behind Lear, et. al, this is one that you will not want to miss. Documents, phone calls, arms shipments, alleged involvement in the Marcos Gold shipments, Iran-Contra, CIA airlines, CIA pilots, folks like G. Gordon Liddy, Gordon Novel, they are all here and a part of the story. UFOs? Yep, they are here to. The inside story on what may have been going on at S-4, Lazar, etc. How Cooper took all these stories and wove his tale from whole cloth. Prostitutes, bad cops, the A.I.D.s virus, and a possible cure that had been discovered, the whole damn thing is incredible. At any rate, the book will give pause for thought. Ok, lets go on a short time trip back to 1988. Don Ecker PS It is late, so if parts of the above do not make much sense, remember, I knew what it was that I wanted to say........ :-( ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #7182 - ASK_UFO Date : 30-Aug-91 0:34 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : Expose II This is from October 1988 ******************************************************* The question is often asked, why don't more military UFO witnesses come forward publicly, and provide names, dates and places? Surely they aren't REALLY intimidated by such empty threats as JANAP 146-E, which provides for hefty fines and jail sentences for breaking silence on a military UFO sighting. Surely they realize the scientific import of their sighting transcends any nationalist or military considerations. If more military witnesses don't come forth publicly, isn't it possible that there aren't really as many as hardcore ufologists would have us believe? Its a question I've often asked myself. ParaNet is deeply indebted to, and a little honored by, user Bill Cooper of Fullerton, California, for this, the first known report of a multiple military witness sighting that occurred onboard the submarine USS Tiru in 1966. --Jim Speiser ------------------------------------------------------------- In 1966 during the month of the Rose Festival in the Pacific Northwest United States, the USS Tiru SS-416 left Pearl Harbor bound for Seattle Washington. The sub moored to a civilian pier near the downtown Seattle area and thousands of people toured the sub during its stay in Seattle. After its duty as "showboat" it proceeded to a back bay area where it underwent torpedo trials. I believe the area was called dabob bay [pronounced day-bob] but I am not sure of the spelling. I include the above information because it should be easy to research. During the cruise from Pearl to Seattle five of the crew had a very unusual experience. During one late afternoon the sub was cruising on the surface at approx. 10 knots when the port lookout reported a strange contact at a range of 2 miles bearing 315 degrees relative. The lookout refused to tell the OOD what it was that he had seen and instead insisted that the starboard lookout and the OOD both look at that area. The three men looked through their binoculars toward the area reported and were astounded to see a metal craft larger than a football field tumble from the clouds into the ocean. It actually tumbled end over end and when it hit the water and sank beneath the ocean huge geysers of water rose into the air. When the port lookout was sure that the others had seen it he then told the OOD that he had seen it tumble from the ocean up into the clouds. The OOD and the starboard lookout were speechless. Within a few minutes, however, they all became excited when it again rose from the water and tumbled up into the cloud layer. At about the same time a crew member below queried the bridge about a radar contact at the same range and bearing. Sonar also reported strange echos. The OOD called for the Captain to come to the bridge at that time. He also called for the camera to be sent to the bridge. The Captain arrived on the bridge within 2 minutes and the Chief Quartermaster was right behind him with the camera. At about the same time the object emerged from the clouds and fell down into the ocean. All five men witnessed this. The QMC took pictures as it rose up into the clouds and then back down into the ocean once again. The five men watched for quite a while longer but nothing else happened. Soon the sub had moved out of visual range and the Captain told all witnesses that they were never to discuss what they had seen with anyone under any circumstances. He stated that the incident was classified information. The Captain then went below and sent a radio msg. There was no doubt as to what we had seen. It was a metal craft with machinery on and around the outside of it. It appeared to have windows or lenses placed around its perimeter. It made no noise that we could hear. It did not disturb the subs electrical systems nor did it affect the gyro compass. It looked very much like a round flying "ship" as in sea going ship. It had the shape and form of a saucer with a bowl inverted in the saucer and it was huge. I will never forget it as long as I live. When I first saw this craft I believe that my heart literally stopped beating and I was terrified. The name of the OOD was Ensign Ball. The starboard lookout was an American Indian seaman that the crew called Geronimo. The port lookout was a new man who left the sub soon after the return to Pearl Harbor and his name was Cooper. I do not remember the Captain's name nor the Chief Quartermaster's name. This is the first time I have ever mentioned it since the moment that the Captain told me that it was classified. As far as I know it has never been reported to the public before this instant. It should be easy to verify the facts if you can get a copy of the log and/or contact the other witnesses. The names should not be too hard to find in the ships records/logs. I was the port lookout. I must say that I feel a great uneasyness in posting this, much like the way I felt in Vietnam when my life was in great danger. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #7183 - ASK_UFO Date : 30-Aug-91 0:35 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : Expose III ALSO FROM OCT. 1988 ******************************************************************** -In light of some of the controversy surrounding Lear.txt, perhaps it would be helpful to refer to some statements attributed to John Lear's father, the late William P. Lear, pertaining to possible UFO technology. They are excerpted from the 1978 book entitled "The Cosmic Conspiracy". They are presented here merely as interesting anecdotes, which may also be helpful to an understanding of what has influenced John Lear. -Tom Mickus Excerpt #1 =========== "William P. Lear, inventor and chairman of the board of Lear, Inc., one of the nation's largest electronics firms specializing in aviation, for months has been going over new developments and theories relating to gravity with his chief scientists and engineers". "...He is convinced that it will be possible to create artificial electro- gravitational fields 'whose polarity can be controlled to cancel out gravity". "...'All the (mass) materials and human beings within these fields will be part of them. They will be adjustable so as to increase or decrease the weight of any object in its surroundings. They won't be affected by the earth's gravity or that of any celestial body". 'This means that if any person was in an anti-gravitational airplane or space ship that carried along its own gravitational field - no matter how fast you accelerated or changed course - your body wouldn't any more feel it than it now feels the speed of the earth' ". "...Eugene M. Gluhareff, president of Gluhareff Helicopter and Airplane Corp. of Manhattan Beach, Calif., has made several theoretical design studies of round or saucer-shaped 'vehicles' for travel into outer space..." It might also be of some interest to the reader that this author witnessed the late William P. Lear making another nationwide statement on a daytime, American television program in about 1969-70. This later statement was made in response to a question from the emcee who wanted to know what Mr. Lear envisioned the next twenty years producing in new technology. Mr. Lear told him that a person would be able to, say, walk into a New York "travel" booth - somewhat similar to a telephone box in shape; - deposit his fare; push a button; and walk out the other side of the booth in San Francisco - having been "teleported" across America in seconds! The studio audience automatically laughed at Mr. Lear - much to their uninformed discredit. Mr. Lear just gaped at their performance in utter amazement. How painfully sad and lonely he must have felt at that moment when he realized the great gulf that separated the viewing audience from the realities he had already witnessed in the laboratory... He was a kind and sincere man; and this author, for one, feels a great loss at Mr. Lear's recent death... Excerpt #2 =========== In his book of 1957, entitled, "The Flying Saucer Conspiracy", Donald Keyhoe also mentioned some rather indicting news on pages 200-201: "On 2nd February, while visiting Bogota, Columbia, William P. Lear manufacturer of aircraft and electronic equipment, told a news conference that the flying saucers are real". "When Lear's story was flashed to the United States by the AP, it was a hard blow for the UFO censors. But this was only the beginning. Within twenty-four hours Lear amplified his first statement: 'I feel the flying saucers are real', he said, 'because of four points'. First, he said, there have been numerous manifestations over long periods of time. Second, many observations have been made simultaneously by reliable observers. Third, there are great possibilities linked with the theory of gravitational fields. Fourth, there are now serious efforts in progress to prove the existence of anti-gravitational forces and to convert atomic energy directly to electricity". "This new AP story dismayed the Pentagon, for it could easily disclose our top-secret research to duplicate the UFO's propulsion. There had already been one hint despite Pentagon precautions. During a meeting of aviation leaders in New York, on the 25th of January, G.S. Trimble, vice- president of advance design for the Glenn L. Martin Aircraft Company, had made an amazing disclosure... "Unlimited power, freedom form gravitational attraction, and infinitely short travel time are now becoming feasible', he told the press. Then he added that eventually all commercial air transpor- tation would be in vehicles operating on these fantastic principles". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #7184 - ASK_UFO Date : 30-Aug-91 0:37 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : EXPOSE IV From 1988 ******************************************************************** #: 154899 S10/Paranormal Issues 25-Oct-88 02:25:12 Sb: LEAR.TXT Fm: Sysop Jim Speiser 72135,424 To: All I'd like to clear up one issue that seems to be bubbling under the surface of some of these discussions. A lot of people have taken an interest in LEAR.TXT, because of its obvious spectacular nature, because of its somewhat famous author, and more recently, because to the inexperienced follower, some of what John has said would seem to have been born out by the recent TV special. I think a short chronology of events will put things in perspective. The two gentlemen you saw on UFO COVER-UP LIVE, Bill Moore and Jamie Shandera, have been working on the MJ-12 angle since the early part of this decade. Condor and Falcon are their alleged contacts. The MJ-12 documents were first hinted at in the fall of 1986, when they were shown to Lee Graham, who leaked them to CAUS, which published a two-part article on the documents in their Fall 1986 issue. The documents were first released in April of 1987, at which time Moore's Fair Witness Project sent them to several Ufologists, myself among them. As far as I know, ParaNet was the first place that the documents became publicly viewable. It was around this time that John Lear was beginning to make a name for himself in Ufology. He showed up at the MUFON symposium in Washington that June, where Moore, Friedman and Shandera made a splash with the Documents. They had already made a splash the previous month at the National UFO Conference in Burbank, where they had made the first of their oft-repeated promises of releasing more information in the future. From the start, "more information" included videotapes of government agents spilling their guts about the cover-up and telling of underground bases and secret deals. Press for next or type CHOICES !10 #: 154900 S10/Paranormal Issues 25-Oct-88 02:25:35 Sb: LEAR.TXT continued Fm: Sysop Jim Speiser 72135,424 To: All In late November or early December of 1987, John Lear went to Los Angeles to visit with Moore. He told me personally that Moore had shown him much of his information (whether that included the actual videotapes or not, I don't know). In late December of 1987, I received LEAR.TXT from John, and was asked to have it typed up and released through ParaNet. It was early January by the time I was able to comply. It wasn't clear from the actual LEAR.TXT document, but in a cover letter (which was not at first supplied to ParaNet), John had said that the contents constituted his "hypothesis," a sort of distillation of things he had come across from various sources, including Moore, Steinman's book "UFO Crash at Aztec," Len Stringfield's work, and information he had culled from several intelligence contacts. My point is this: I have no way of telling at this time whether the information presented by Moore, Shandera, Falcon or Condor is true, but there is no reason for people to point to the testimonials of Falcon and Condor and say that they tend to corroborate Lear's hypothesis, because there is no reason to believe they are not the SOURCE of Lear's hypothess, at least in large part. In other words, Lear happened to have an inside track before most of you had even heard of this stuff. I'm only posting this so that people's attention doesn't get misdirected from the true issues. Whether or not Moore-Shandera-Friedman have the real goods, the ball is in THEIR court and not Lear's. There will be a further statement on this forthcoming from MSF themselves. Watch for it here. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Message #7185 - ASK_UFO Date : 30-Aug-91 0:38 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : EXPOSE V From 1988, but since this was uploaded, the author, Milton Cooper has changed it six or seven times. ******************************************************************** DISCLOSURE OF THIS INFORMATION IS AN ATTEMPT TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. THE GROUP KNOWN AS MAJESTIC TWELVE HAS ENGAGED IN A VILE CONSPIRACY THAT HAS IGNORED THE LAW OF THE LAND AND THE PRINCIPLES OF FREEDOM THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS FOUNDED UPON. THEY HAVE TAKEN IT UPON THEMSELVES TO INSTITUTE UNLAWFUL AND DANGEROUS PROJECTS WHICH HAS ENDANGERED THE NATION AND THE HUMAN RACE. THE DISCLOSURE GROUP CONSISTS OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SWORN TO UPHOLD AND PROTECT T E CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. WE HOPE AND PRAY THAT THIS DISCLOSURE WILL ENCOURAGE OTHERS CONNECTED WITH THIS CONSPIRACY TO MAKE SIMILAR DISCLOSURES. WE ASK THAT THIS STATEMENT REMAIN ATTACHED TO THIS INFORMATION. WE SEEK NO REWARD OR PUBLIC ACCLAIM. WE ONLY SEEK TO EXPOSE THIS ACT AS A CRIMINAL ASSUALT UPON THE UNITED STATES AND THE HUMAN RACE. MAJESTIC TWELVE (PROWORD) MAJIC MAJESTIC TWELVE, MAJESTIC 12, MAJESTIC-12, MJ-12, MAJIC, are all forms of the code name for the control group authorized by President Truman on 09/24/47. The Director of the Central Intelligenge Agency (CIA) is the Director of Majestic Twelve, MJ-1. The control group was formed to oversee a TOP SECRET Research and Development & Intelligence Operation and was responsible only to the President. The need for this group was dictated by the finding of a downed FLYING SAUCER scattered over 2 sites near the town of Roswell New Mexico in July 1947. The dead bodys of 4 very small human like ALIENS were also found. MAJESTIC TWELVE is the most highly classified secret in the United States and its existance has never been divulged to Congress. The funds for MJ-12 and Aquarius are CIA confidential (non-appropriated). DOCUMENTS MAJESTIC TWELVE documents can be identified by the following; TOP SECRET/MAJIC/RESTRICTED DATA EYES ONLY COPY___OF___ TOP SECRET/MAJIC/RESTRICTED EYES ONLY COPY___OF___ TOP SECRET/MAJIC EYES ONLY COPY___OF___ One of the above will appear both at the top and bottom of each page. You will never see one version in a document along with any other version. Also on each page will appear; T52-EXEMPT (E) or just EXEMPT. T52 is the publication outlining procedures for automatic downgrade of all security classifications and the time period for declassification of each security level. This information is never to be declassified. Each page of each document will be numbered consecutively and the number of pages will appear upon the cover sheet. Copys of MAJESTIC TWELVE beyond the original number are forbidden. PROJECTS under MAJESTIC TWELVE The operations listed here were current as late as 1976 with absolute certainty and are still operational to the best of our knowledge. The names of the original operations were changed several times over the years and eventually evolved into those listed. PROJECT SIGN (PROWORD) MAJIC The first project under MAJESTIC TWELVE. The mission of project sign was essentially the same as that which PROJECT AQUARIUS evolved into. PROJECT SIGN referred to aliens as Extraterrestrial Biological Entities. The reasons for the absorbtion of PROJECT SIGN by PROJECT AQUARIUS were mainly of a political and security nature. PROJECT AQUARIUS stripped the Air Force and Army Generals of their historic control of the UFO/IAC projects and placed most of it under the Intelligence umbrella. PROJECT AQUARIUS (PROWORD) MAJIC Established in 1953 by President Eisenhower under control of MJ-12 and PROJECT SIGN. The Project contains all information collected by the United States since it began investigating UFO's (Unidentified Flying Objects) and IAC's (Identified Alien Craft). At the time we saw this information it existed in approximately 15 or 16 volumes. This project became an independent project when PROJECT SIGN was eliminated in 1960. PROJECT AQUARIUS referred to aliens as Alien Life Forms. The mission of PROJECT AQUARIUS was to gather all scientific, technological, medical, and intelligence information from UFO & IAC sightings and contacts with Alien Life Forms. The information was to be used in the space program. PROJECT SIGMA (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1954 as part of PROJECT SIGN. The mission of PROJECT SIGMA was to establish communication with the aliens. First communication was established in 1959 through binary computer language. On April 25, 1964 a USAF (OSI) officer met with aliens at a prearranged desert location in New Mexico. Information was exchanged and a basic understanding was reached after several hours. It was learned through this effort that several species of alien life existed. Communication was eventually established with all of them. Through communications it was determined that 3 catagorys existed. The three catagorys are MALEVOLENT (DANGEROUS), BENEVOLENT (GOOD-HELPFUL), and NEUTRAL (OBSERVERS ONLY) The project has been extremely successful. PROJECT PLATO (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1960 after the United States established communications with the aliens. The mission of PROJECT PLATO was to establ ish diplomatic re lations with the aliens. Project Plato made agreements in order to prevent hostilitys between the United States and the aliens. An agreement was made with the MALEVOLENT aliens whereby they could abduct humans. The purpose of these abductions were to provide blood and other biological fluids as food for the aliens. The aliens agreed to furnish a list periodically to MJ-12 of the names of those abducted. PROJECT PLATO took whatever steps neccessary to prevent public disclosure. * PROJECT PLUTO (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1947 after the Roswell incident. The mission of PROJECT PLUTO was to recover all crashed or downed alien craft, to recover all evidence of alien presence or technology, and to recover all alien bodies (alive or dead). PROJECT PLUTO developed cover stories to satisfy press and civilian curiosity. PROJECT PLUTO was authorized use of deadly force and/or relocation to insure secrecy. PROJECT PLUTO was responsible for and biological intelligence of the Alien Life Forms. PROJECT POUNCE (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1968. The mission of PROJECT POUNCE was to evaluate all UFO/IAC information pertaining to space technology. The goal was to duplicate the technology and/or improve upon it. Ultimate use of the technology would establish the United States as the dominate world power and close the gap in any confrontation with the aliens. PROJECT REDLIGHT (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1954. The mission REDLIGHT was to test a recovered alien craft. The mission was accomplished in part only. PROJECT REDLIGHT was terminated in 1963 after every (flyable) recovered craft exploded during test flights. There were no survivors among the human test pilots. PROJECT SNOWBIRD (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1972. The mission of PROJECT SNOWBIRD was to test fly a recovered alien craft. The project was on going the last time I saw this information. PROJECT ???????? (PROWORD) AQUARIUS (NOTE...We are recall the name of this project nor have we been able to get response from anyone on it. At the time we saw the information the project was ongoing. It cannot be determined if this project is still in existence.) The mission of this project was to develop a low frequency pulsed sound generator. The energy produced from this generator was to be concentrated so that it could be aimed and used as a weapon in order to destroy the alien craft and beam weapons. The alien beam weapons were described as ange but able to incapacitate or destroy any weapons system known to date (1972). The aliens also possess a beam weapon which is described as being able to paralyse any human within range. Tests were described as having shown that the alien craft and weapons were extremely sensitive to low frequency pulsed sound waves. This weapon was to be used to incapacitate the alien defenses in order to allow PROJECT EXCALIBUR to succeed in its mission. The initial technology used in this project was capture the Germans during WW- II. The German sound generators were described as being able to knock down reinforced concrete buildings and shatter 4" thick armour from a great range. This technology is believed to further substantiate that Germany had recovered alien craft and had possibly had some dealings with the aliens prior to or during WW-II. Documents captured during and after WW-II indicated that an alien craft had been recovered by Germany in 1939. A German built flying saucer was captured dur last few months of WW-II. PROJECT EXCALIBUR (PROWORD) AQUARIUS Established in 1972. The mission of PROJECT EXCALIBUR is to develop a weapons system capable of destroying the alien underground base after the alien beam weapons have been incapacitated or destroyed. The alien underground base is located beneath an indian reservation near the small town of Dulce, New Mexico. The device must be capable of penetrating 1,000 meters of tufa / hard pack soil and sustain no operational damage. This typ is commonly found in New Mexico where the alien base is located. Missile apogee must not exceed 30,000 feet AGL. Impact deviation will now exceed 50 meters. The device will carry a 1 megaton warhead. PROJECT BLUE BOOK A U.S. Air Force project establiahed to determine whether UFO's pose a threat to the security of the United States and to determine whether UFO's exhibit any unique scientific information or advanced technology which could contribute to scientific or technical research. PROJECT was successful in its primary mission outlined above. PROJECT BLUE BOOK was not quite so successful in its secondary mission which was to publicly explain away the UFO phenomenon as natural or known phenomenon in order to eleminate public interest. To completely fulfill the secondary mission it was decided that an outside commission of distinguished scientists would be convened in order to permanantly lay the issue to rest. After this 'study' was completed (Condon Commission) the Air Force state the continuation of Project Blue Book cannot be justified, either on the ground of national security or in the interest of science. PROJECT BLUE BOOK was abandoned and its mission and information was consolidated under PROJECT AQUARIUS in 1969. SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS Contracted to the University of Colorado in 1966 and Chaired by Dr. Edward U. Condon. The results of the panel were dictated before the first meeting. Despite objections of the other panel members, Dr. Cond le to fulfill the mission. The general conclusion was that "nothing has come from the study of UFOs in the past 21 years that has added to scientific knowledge." A panel from the National Academy of Sciences agreed. The press and the public were satisfied. Except for a hard core element of UFO believers the issue died in the public forum. OPERATION UFO (NSA OPERATION IN SUPPORT OF PROJECT PLUTO) The mission of Operation UFO was to form intelligence teams versed in all of the knowledge learned which would be the first on scene of any UFO crash site in order to secure the technology and prevent it from falling into foreign hands. Several teams existed over the world. The United States was specifically concerned that it did not fall into Soviet hands. This mission was to be accomplished no matter the country of occurrance. Many subsequent ALIEN CRAFT recoverys would occur in foreign countrys as well as the United States. UFO was also used to recover downed space hardware (especially So d to recover nuclear weapons which became lost (usually by accident). OPERATION MOONDUST (SUPPORTED SPACE PROGRAM & UFO) The mission of Operation Moondust was to provide a cover which would neutralize public curiosity while recovery of an ALIEN CRAFT was being conducted. The teams that made up the compliment of Moondust were the same teams that made up UFO. Moondust was made public and its mission (to the public) was to identify and recover United States space hardware which might fall to earth. s a bonified mission when circumstances dictated. OPERATION BLUEFLY (SUPPORTED UFO & MOONDUST) The mission of operation Bluefly was to provide QUICK REACTION COMBAT TEAMS known as ALPHA teams (fight for technology if neccessary), mechanical and technological support in recovery, rapid and secure transport to secure storage and examination areas. There are several of these storage and examination areas in order to limit distance traveled and thus limit the possible chance of an accident that cou e cargo to public knowledge. Several teams existed over the world. Recovery and transport of both EBEs (dead or alive) and Alien craft were accomplished. Bluefly was also utilized in event of recovery of space objects (of terrestrial origin), and event of recovery of lost nuclear weapons (usually due to accident). NOTE....This account of the history and current status of MAJESTIC TWELVE and the Alien Life Forms has been kept brief. We believe that the intent, however, has been served with th on provided. The whole story would fill several hundred volumes. We realize that even with the combined effort of several memorys we have probably made some mistakes. We have tried to minimize the mistakes and feel that what is represented is true and correct to the best of our combined knowledge. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #7186 - ASK_UFO Date : 30-Aug-91 0:40 From : Don Ecker To : All Subject : EXPOSE VI From 1988 ******************************************************************* LEAR AND COOPER: AN EXPLANATION (But Not an Apology) Jim Speiser 10/26/88 Ordinarily, I don't feel I have to explain my actions regarding this board or this network. I think I've developed a pretty good reputa- tion for reliability and fairness. I certainly owe nothing in the way of an explanation to Messrs. Cooper and Lear. However, I can see where some confusion may have arisen regarding my actions, especial- ly on the part of Don Ecker, whom I have a great deal of respect for, and on the part of other users who have discreetly inquired as to my reasons. These things always seem to come best in the form of chronologies, and so, a brief chronology follows. Bill Cooper first contacted this board with a story of a sighting he had on board a submarine in 1966. The story (TIRU-1.UFO) was forward- ed to Vickie Cooper for inclusion in a possible story in UFO Maga- zine. It was also sent to Stan Friedman for verification. This was back in August. I learned from Vickie Cooper that Bill (no relation) had had a con- versation with her in which the Majestic-12 documents had come up. When she mentioned the "proword" "MAJIC", he claimed to have seen that word on several documents back in his days with CINCPACFLT (Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet). About a week later, I received the first of many files from Cooper, in which he implied that he had firsthand contact with or knowledge of individuals connected with MJ-12. (see GUIDANCE.DOC). He further implied that anyone possessing this knowledge was in great danger. I forwarded this file to both Stanton Friedman and Jamie Shandera, to see whether any of the information in it checked out. I later found out that it did not. In the meantime, Cooper took a more active role in the public mes- sage base. He claimed publicly that he had lost his $75,000/year job as a marketing director, two days after having spoken with Stan Friedman. He stated that he would not be providing any more info for this reason. In the meantime, several more documents written by Cooper filtered through the ParaNet system, by way of our Ft. Smith board. They were uploaded anonymously, but were written by Cooper. They each contained the same preamble, which claimed that the info was for myself and for Stanton Friedman only, and that we were in great danger for possessing the info contained therein. (DANGER.DOC, MUGGER.DOC, PICNIC2.DOC). At around this time, a user named Jeff Felix began using the board, and asked via chat for a private meeting between him and myself. We set up a meet at the Jerry's on Scottsdale Road in Tempe (the same one at which the Phoenix Skeptics hold their monthly meetings.) At this meeting, Felix, who is all of about 24, told a bizarre tale of having been an NSA cryptology technician, of having been "fooling around" on the NSA computer, trying to come up with an encryption program, and had "stumbled across" the Majestic file, the Aquarius file, the whole ball of wax. "Its all true," he told us, "the underground bases, the aliens, the crashed saucers, etc." He claimed that with a modified modem, he could get back in to the files. Naturally, I was extremely skeptical, and a few days later when I asked Felix a few questions on the phone, testing his knowledge of the most basic intelligence terminology, I became flat-out incredulous when he failed the test. What was even more revealing was that Bill Cooper had provided me with some of the questions I asked Felix, and I have a captured chat session with Cooper in which he expressed his doubts of Felix's veracity. In my last online chat with Felix, he mentioned something called Project X-calibur (his spelling). He said he had discussed it with Cooper on the phone before he had called me. Cooper later told me that no, Felix had not mentioned it. He told me he had heard of it, but that it was VERY Top Secret, above his level. He said he didn't know anything more about it. Much to my surprise, Cooper later called to tell me that Project Excalibur is real, that his sources told him it was a project by MJ- 12 to extract technology from the aliens. He told me that it was important I get in touch with Felix, that if "the kid knows about [Excalibur], he's for real." Felix, in the meantime, would give me no information about Excalibur, except that a friend of his who had done the same thing he had (broken into the NSA's Cray-3 computer, the most advanced and secure supercomputer in the world), had "stum- bled across" the Excalibur file. My thinking on Cooper and Felix at this time began to center on the thought that the two of them were scamming me behind my back, and I had visions of having ParaNet become a home for unwed paranoids. When John Lear returned from his long absence, and began to join with Cooper in a series of mutual admiration sessions, I saw things getting out of control. I knew by now that Cooper was either engaging in fantasy role-play- ing, or something more sinister. The word "disinformation" has been bandied about quite freely during this entire MJ-12 mess. Now, please consider: Cooper's credentials as a Naval NCO with a back- ground in intelligence seem to check out. His information is self- contradicting and paranoid, and does NOT check out, at least with the several intelligence sources I have contacted. After the UFO COVER-UP broadcast, Cooper sent ANOTHER file by way of ParaNet RHO in BOISE, called his 10-15-88 Position Paper. In it he completely contradicts his entire previous thesis, and claims that the MJ-12 scenario as painted by Moore's group (and implicitly, by himself) is a hoax. Further, he claims to be in full agreement with John Lear (which agreement seems to be mutual, based on Lear's support of Cooper). Now I ask you, if agents of disinformation are at work to discredit the field of Ufology, who is the more likely suspect? Moore/Shandera/Friedman, who claimed from the beginning to have videotapes of bona fide government agents, and produced them for live TV, or Cooper/Lear, who seemingly plagiarized the Moore documents, gave them a slightly different spin, then turned around and contradicted themselves the moment it became public knowledge, and can't even seem to agree with each other, yet support each other publicly? My locking out of Cooper was actually on the advice of Cooper himself, who accused William Pitts and the New Project Blue Book of being a military intelligence cover operation, and ParaNet of being an unwitting disinformation pipeline. To avoid becoming such a pipeline, which I'm sure no one here wants, I simply got rid of the most likely suspect. As to Lear, I don't think any self-respecting Sysop would stand for being accused of borderline treason on his public board, especially from a man who proudly displays in his office enlarged telephoto-graphs of the installation at Groom Lake, the country's most secret tactical aircraft development area, obtained by himself after attempting to enter the area illegally. His unqualified support for Cooper, which seems to be based solely on Cooper's unqualified support for him, I found distasteful and somehow disturbing, in light of the fact that Cooper has contradicted Lear's information. And consider: John Lear entered Ufology in early 1987, when it became known to a few that Moore was going to release MJ-12. Lear is known to have been a CIA operative in the past. He wears his patriotism on his office walls, in the form of autographed pictures of him- self standing with G. Gordon Liddy. Again, if disinformation is taking place, I ask you, who is the more likely source? And is it working? Well, consider. What if Moore/Shandera/Friedman DO have the real goods? If so, isn't it a shame that so many intelligent people, people such as Don Ecker, watched UFO COVER-UP LIVE, and instead of asking if MSF were for real, began asking if Lear and Cooper were for real? This, despite the obvious contra- dictions and obfuscations listed below: "The documents you are looking for are for the most part labeled TOP SECRET MAJIC-RESTRICTED DATA" -- Bill Cooper, 22 August "EVERY DOCUMENT YOU SEE WHICH USES...`MAJIC' IS A FRAUD!" -- Bill Cooper, 15 October "The documents produced by Mr. Moore et al are photographic copies of genuine documents which were procured at great risk." -- Bill Cooper, 22 August "I CAN PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT TO ANYONE THAT MOST OF THE INFORMATION RELEASED BY WILLIAM MOORE, ET AL...ARE OBVIOUS AND DELIBERATE FORGERIES." -- Bill Cooper, 15 October "Hmmm...let me think on that one for a while." -- Bill Cooper, when I told him that the Aquarius Telex contained a compartmentalized routing code at the top that indicated to anyone trained in military communications/intelligence that the document was either fraudulent or to be ignored for some reason. Phone conversation, 11 October "The code is ZNY." -- Bill Cooper, phone conversation, 12 October. "I got it, Jim, I just remembered after I hung up with you, its NOT ZNY, that means something else, but its _________" (my deletion). -- Bill Cooper, phone conversation, 12 October "There is a code at the head of the AQUARIUS TELEX that tells me that the information contained within it is not to be acted upon nor in any way believed...________ on the telex net informs all stations that the message CANNOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY...The code is really a type of slang/graffiti that was used by a lot of enlisted men, and sometimes by officers. I had a lot of fun with a couple of Ufologists on that one. THEY STILL BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE TESTING ME." -- Bill Cooper, 15 October ----- Emphasis and deletions above are in the originals except where indicated. ** EOF ** ========================================================================== NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14270 alt.conspiracy:23981 sci.skeptic:40560 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: MUFONET: Germany Sighting Report - article Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:34:17 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.143417.1720@bilver.uucp> Lines: 213 AREA:UFO Mon 1 Mar 93 18:17 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Germany UFO Sighting --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Forwarded from "MUFONET" * Originally by John Komar * Originally to All * Originally dated 1 Mar 1993, 15:26 MUFONET-BBS GROUP - MUFONET-BBS NETWORK ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GERMANY SIGHTING REPORT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [NOTE: I received this sighting report recently. It is provided here with the approval of the author/witness.] 旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � About ten years ago I had a rather unusual experience � 퀃hat I've never discussed with anyone in much detail even � 퀃hough I think about it all the time. So, I thought I'd post� 쿺y little UFO story here and see what people could make of � 퀃hings: � � � � In the Fall of 1981 I was a young teen serving as an � 쿌rmy tank crewman with Alpha Troop 1/10 Cavalry 4th � 쿘echanized Infantry Division, Ft. Carson Colorado. I was a � 쿲unner aboard an M60A1, the antediluvian predecessor to the � 쿘60A3. � � � � In early September of that year, my unit shipped out for � 쿥est Germany as part of the annual Reforger exercises. We � 쿪rrived on September 6th, drew our equipment, and headed � 퀂traight for the field. � � � � After about three weeks into the exercise my Squadron � 퀃ook defensive positions around a little village called � 쿝amrod or Butzbach, I can't remember which. In fact, the two� 퀆illages may be very close to each other, I've never checked� 쿪 map. (I'm pretty sure it's Ramrod) � � � � Our tanks and M113s were placed in a thick little patch � 쿽f forest on the edge of a 1/2 kilometer wide by one or two � 쿸ilometer long field of thick green grass amidst slightly � 퀁olling hills. Our gun tubes faced North towards the village� 퀂ome two kilometers away. � � � � The field itself was surrounded on all sides by thin- � 퀃runked German fir trees with an average height of 90 feet. � 쿌 paved, two lane, road ran through my unit's position and � 쿭own the middle of the field into the village. � � � � After waiting two uncomfortable days for the British to � 쿪ttack our positions, my Troop commander decided to let us � 퀃ake trips to the sportzplatz in the village below for � 퀂howers. We hadn't bathed in over a week. � � � � I went in on the second run with most of my platoon, � 쿪bout twenty guys. It was a cloudy, overcast, mid-morning. I� 쿬annot remember the day or the date. We were riding on a � 쿯ull canopied 2 1/2 ton truck. I sat at the rear of the � 퀆ehicle, near the tailgate, because I liked the view and � 쿭idn't smoke. The back-flap had been rolled up and tied � 쿽pen. � � � � If none of you here have ever ridden on a canopied 2 1/2 � 퀃on truck, then understand that it is a jolting, jarring, � 쿻oisy, completely deafening experience where all aboard � 쿪cquire many bruises and stiff rearends after even the � 퀂hortest of drives. Communication is achieved only by � 퀉elling to one another at the very top of your lungs. � 쿎ommunication with the driver, from the back of the vehicle,� 쿶s next to impossible. � � � � But I digress... � � � � As the truck made its way along the road at a 15 to � �20mph clip, something moving in the air above the trees to � 퀃he East (The directions given here are only for purposes � 쿽f orientation) caught my attention. Less than 100 yards � 쿪way, just above the treeline, moved what appeared to be a � 쿹arge (make that DOUBLE large) Glad Bag "rolling" about � 퀃hrough the air as if caught by the wind. � � � � Its speed must have been less than five miles an hour. � � � � Intrigued, I watched as the "bag" loped along � 퀂outhwards, skirting above the trees, and then chaotically, � 쿴aphazardly, curved west towards the open field and began � 쿭escending. � � � � Now, this was all very unexciting until I noticed that � 퀃he "bag" was changing shape and color. � � � � As it made its westward "turn" and sloppy, rolling, � 쿭escent (just as a large, half-inflated, giant, garbage-bag � 퀇ould if caught in a slipstream at 90 feet), its color � 쿬hanged from flat green, to flat red, to flat black, to � 쿯lat blue and so on. As this was happening, so too did its � 쿫aggy, bulky, shape, begin to smooth and flatten the closer � 쿶t got to the ground. � � Pay special attention to the word -smooth-. It was as if � 쿪ll turbulence had ceased and every crinkle, every ripple, � 쿮very bump, every possible exterior surface distortion that � 쿺ight be caused by the slightest movement of wind "within" � 퀃he "bag", had vanished. � � � � Indeed, it was elongating and flattening to become a � 퀂mooth disk. � � � � At an altitude of scarcely twenty feet, all downward � 쿺otion suddenly ceased as the "disk" made a precise and � 퀁adical maneuver that sent it on a perfect horizontal � 쿲lidepath above the field. At this very instant, in reaction� 퀃o the sudden and completely artificial maneuver, my Platoon� 쿞ergeant, SFC Venero, said, and I quote him exactly: "What � 퀃he f___ -IS- that thing?" � � � � To which I replied "It looks like a garbage bag that � 쿬hanges color!" (Brilliant words indelibly etched in my � 쿺ind. ) � � � � I hadn't known he was watching, but he'd seen everything � 쿷ust as I had. � � � � As the disk then continued to descend again, this time � 퀇ith a very steady and controlled forward speed of ten � 쿺iles an hour or so, my truck crested a hill. Moments � 쿫efore this "thing" would have landed, my view was blocked � 쿫y the hill as we moved downwards towards the bottom. � � � � I did not say a word. I did not scream "STOP THIS � 쿟RUCK!" I did not in anyway try to jump off the moving � 퀆ehicle and run like hell to see what it was because I KNEW � 쿔'd be... yelled at by my Sergeant. I was a disciplined � 퀂oldier and the thought of being yelled at kept me GLUED to � 쿺y seat. � � � � After the UFO disappeared behind the hill, Sgt. Venero � 쿹ooked at me, blinked his big dull eyes once or twice, then � 퀂hrugged his shoulders. "Hmm" he said. � � � � Because the whole event was so very undramatic, because � 퀃here was no Close Encounters of the Third Kind theme music � 쿾laying, because the truck was rattling and swaying and � 쿫ouncing and because I would've looked like a fool, � 퀂creaming at all of them to shut up and tell the driver to � 퀂top, I said not a damned thing. � � � � Nada. � � � � Later, when I tried telling others about what I'd seen, � 퀃he standard response was the heady "Sure, Conley. Sure." � � � � Sergeant Venero, not the most interesting, thoughtful, � 쿽r well read fellow, chalked it up as being "Just one of � 퀃hose things." � � � � Now, whenever I've told this story to fellow military � 쿾eople I get the usual "Hey, it was probably just an RPV." � � � � This is a very logical possibility, but I've seen quite � 쿪 few remotely piloted vehicles and ALL of them have wings, � 쿌LL of them fly in relatively straight flight paths, ALL of � 퀃hem change direction with a dip of the WINGS (which, as I � 퀂aid, this craft did not have) and NONE of them change color� 쿪nd NONE of them change -SHAPE- in flight. (Forget midget � 쿬raft with variable sweep wings. This UFO did not have � 퀇ings.) � � � � Because of the noise in the truck, I can't tell you if � 퀃he craft made any noise. I will say that I heard nothing. � � � � What I saw just did not appear to be man-made. � � � � Has anyone here ever seen anything like this? � � � �=END= � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) ** EOF ** ============================================================================ NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14271 alt.conspiracy:23982 sci.skeptic:40561 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: MUFONET: BBS list Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 14:36:29 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar11.143629.1860@bilver.uucp> Lines: 104 AREA:UFO Sun 21 Feb 93 19:20 By: Don Allen To: All Re: MUFONET Systems --------------------------------------------------------------------------- MUFONET-BBS NETWORK MEMBER BOARDS -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- MufoNet-BBS Network ---- 901-785-4943 ----- Memphis, TN * Rainbow Quickbbs ------- 501-646-5812 ----- Ft. Smith, AR Pegasus Of Orion ------- by arrangement --- Woodland Park, CO Space_Link ------------- 502-683-3026 ----- Owensboro, KY Comm-Post -------------- 303-534-4646 ----- Denver, CO Alternatives ----------- 504-926-7903 ----- Baton Rouge, LA Baron Carlos Castle ---- 202-863-1493 ----- Washington, D.C. The Rat's Edge --------- 716-964-7968 ----- Hamlin, NY Crystal Clear Ideas ---- 901-366-7221 ----- Memphis, TN Polestar --------------- 306-586-1551 ----- Regina, Canada Quicksilver ------------ 206-780-2011 ----- Bainbridge Is, WA Crystal Cave ----------- 719-391-1092 ----- Widefield, CO Gates Of Delirium ------ 916-446-7286 ----- Sacramento, CA Wandering Consultant --- 719-391-8958 ----- Colorado Springs, CO AstroNet-Australia ----- 61-3-467-8090 ---- Melbourne, Australia * Art Of The Possible ---- 401-421-2218 ----- Providence, RI HomeBody --------------- 407-322-3592 ----- Sanford, FL Erie County C.C Club --- 716-649-1368 ----- Cheektowaga, NY Old Tinbrain ----------- 803-747-8911 ----- Charleston, SC The Encounter ---------- 602-892-1853 ----- Gilbert, AZ Desert Frenzy ---------- 702-453-7948 ----- Las Vegas, NV Northern Eye ----------- 207-945-4209 ----- Bangor, ME Highland Lakes --------- 915-388-3209 ----- Marble Falls, TX Compu-Talk ------------- 61-3-379-2097 ---- Strathmore Vic, Aust. * Astral ----------------- 61-6-286-4397 ---- Canberra, Australia * The Spacial Expander --- 61-2-673-3559 ---- St. Marys, NSW, Aust. * Tex*Star BBS ----------- 512-556-2524 ----- Lampasas, TX The Witche's Brew ------ 61-3-718-2198 ---- Melbourne, Australia * The White Lodge -------- 61-2-901-0734 ---- Sydney, Australia * The Nth Dimension ------ 61-7-349-2730 ---- Brisbane. Australia * Serial Port ------------ 601-366-1803 ----- Jackson, MS Wolf Star -------------- 406-761-2736 ----- Great Falls, MT Planet 10 -------------- 904-864-2314 ----- Ft. Walton Beach, FL Lypps Sync ------------- 513-376-2008 ----- Xenia, OH Dragon's Keep ---------- 513-253-7666 ----- Dayton, OH Ransom Oblique --------- 904-939-3253 ----- Navarre, FL Darkstar --------------- 904-581-2646 ----- Hurlburt Field, FL The Flame -------------- 904-286-5125 ----- Tyndall AFB, FL Quantum Shift ---------- 904-478-1161 ----- Pensacola, FL Fone Emporium --------- 904-436-2092 ----- Pensacola, FL The MAGIC Bus ---------- 313-544-3653 ----- Oak, MI The Fortean Research Ctr 402-488-2587 ----- Lincoln, NE UFO Intelligence Ntwk -- 416-459-6259 ----- Brampton, Ontario, Canada U.F.Online ------------- 713-688-2030 ----- Houston, TX Ad Astra --------------- 406-452-9896 ----- Great Falls, MT Nightmare -------------- 304-485-8910 ----- Parkersburg, WV Phoenix Rising --------- 707-763-7108 ----- Petaluma, CA Rick's Fantasy Land ---- 904-664-6582 ----- Fort Walton Beach, FL Ursa Major ------------- 310-545-7216 ----- Manhattan Beach, CA Monty's Place ---------- 801-944-8636 ----- Sandy, UT The Space Academy ------ 407-632-4614 ----- Cocoa, FL -=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- OTHER ASTRONET-BBS NETWORK BOARDS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lan -------------------- 61-02-78-1982 ---- Hobart, TAS, Australia Nightmare -------------- 61-02-78-1982 ---- Hobart, TAS, Australia The Bad Influence ------ 61-2-525-8582 ---- Miranda, Australia Biz-Nice --------------- 61-8-269-7685 ---- Walkerville, Australia The Keyboard ----------- 61-8-344-5354 ---- Prospect, Australia Book Of Splenders ------ 61-6-292-4763 ---- Rivett ACT, Australia Alchemy ---------------- 61-6-296-3110 ---- Kambah ACT, Australia Wild Magic ------------- 61-7-129-4361 ---- Hervey Bay, Australia Nano World ------------- 61-7-365-1143 ---- Univ. Of Queensland, Aust. The Crystal Ball ------- 61-9-245-1185 ---- Scarborough, W. Australia Information Unlimited -- 61-70-53-1087 ---- Cairns, Australia -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [* - denotes board also a member of AstroNet-BBS Network/Australia] ** End of file ** ======================================================================== NOTE: Sometimes mail will bounce going to my uucp address (bilver!), so the best way to contact me is via my main Fido point (1:123/26.1) or p1.f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen That's the MUFONET HQ BBS - 901-785-4943 (14.4 baud) You can also find me on ParaNet and on the Fido UFO echo as I'm the Moderator. One uucp-Fido gateway I'm aware of is: 1:369/11 - The Branch Office Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!corleyj From: corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Message-ID: <1993Mar8.221327.16509@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 8 Mar 93 22:13:27 GMT References: <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson Lines: 24 In article <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu writes: > > The best way for the government to run tests on potential >environmental hazards without giving credence that there is a >hazard to the community surrounding it and also to cover their >tracks is to hide right out in the open. Misdirection by >painstaikenly cutting up their test subjects and making it look >like aliens. No one would be the wiser. Did you see the movie >"Sneakers" where the Black Box was inside what looked like the >answering machine on top of the desk in plain view. Hiding >out in plain sight...... And yes Mike I do have intestinal >fortitude. > > > ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE "Cattle mutilations are up." "Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!" -- *************************************************************************** "I was pleased to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know."----- Mark Twain, _Life on the Mississippi_ Jason "corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu" Corley Was Here But Isn't Anymore Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Sagan vs. A Legitimate Psychiatrist Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 13:57:24 GMT References: <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 39 In article <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >witnessed "craft that fly at incredibly high speeds." Finally, a >high-ranking European public-health official explained...that she >herself had been abducted. These physicians appeared perfectly >normal, and all of them were convinced of the reality of a >phenomenon that I regarded as evidence of psychopathology... I wasn't >in a position to decide whether extraterrestrials exist...But >clearly *something* had happened to these people, something >powerful, strange, and transformative."... So what? There are psychiatrists today who still believe in the old Freudian ideas of "id"'s "superego"'s, etc. Just because a psychiatrist believes something doesn't, by itself, mean the thing is real. The bottom line remains the same: There is no evidence of actual abductions. These days everyone and his brother has a camcorder but no neighbors or other members of the household have videotaped aliens carrying the "adbuctee" away, or space- craft landed in the backyard. And despite numerous reports by abductees that they have had artifacts left inside their bodies by aliens, these have never been shown to exist despite persistent rumors on this newsgroup that someone (unspecified) somehwere (unspecified) is actually in possession of such artifacts. The bottom line remains that whatever the phenomenon is that's going on here there is no evidence that it's not strictly inside the head of the alleged "abductee". ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Sagans Article Message-ID: <1993Mar11.155109.17701@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com> <1993Mar10.170241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 15:51:09 GMT Lines: 45 In article <1993Mar10.170241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >In article <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >> In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: >>>In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. >>> >>>I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... >> >> He's beyond his depth on that one. He's no psycologist, and Dr. Mack of Harvard >> says there is no historical evidence that people have mass hallucinations. >> >> Sagan is one of the most likely PAID debunkers, and has been for a very >> long time... >> >> Jeff- > >He must have been paid or otherwise convinced, because I have not >known him previously to employ such SLOPPY science! To use the >results of a 6,000 subject survey, and blithely extrapolate it to >global magnitude -- producing the non-credible figure of over >100 million abductees (it was obviously SUPPOSED to be non-credible) -- >is pure rubbish! If the sample population is properly chosen, a small group will accuratly represent the whole group. For example, polls taken for the presidential elections currently have about 1300 subjects. They represent the voting part of 250 million people (in the US). I have seen the records for the last 5 or 6 elections, and the polls have been accurate to within a few percent. Now I am not sure about sampling for global results, where there are many sub-groups, but if the survey was done properly, it should be representative of the larger group. >He should be ashamed of himself. Can you substantiate that with more than generalizations? >Lou Rich payner@netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!mjxc From: mjxc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Malcolm Cowe) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: don allen for prime minister Message-ID: Date: 11 Mar 93 17:12:24 GMT Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh Lines: 17 I quote: >THE NEXT TIME YOU ALL NEED A HANDOUT OR SOME TROUP SUPPORT GO PISS UP A >ROPE!! etc., etc. So you're all in the circus, eh? That's nice. ^---- I think you might mean TROOP; I had heard educational standards were slipping. Take you're pointless little message away from us. This narrow-minded bigotted nonsense is just perpetuating the mythical stereotype of the obnoxious, verbose American (my apologies to my friends, and to 'normal' Americans [whatever normal means to anyone]). Don't waste our bandwidth. Malcolm. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!amdahl!amdcad!amdint.amd.com!mozart!billp From: billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) Subject: no evidence Message-ID: Sender: usenet@amd.com Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 16:50:47 GMT Lines: 11 There is not one shred of evidence that I can see that any of you exist. You are just phantoms on my screen. Expecially Peter. Prove to me that you exist. (No pictures, photos, witnesses, etc. I won't even belive you! You could be lying. No documents, no audio, video, or anything else wil;l be acceptable. Only your actual flesh and blood which of course could be faked.) -- Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14379 alt.alien.visitors:14277 sci.skeptic:40567 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Statement. Message-ID: <77248@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 06:22:37 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: It looks like a gremlin is back in my computer. I think he was kicked out, so things should look better now. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14380 alt.alien.visitors:14278 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Recommendation. Message-ID: <77249@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 06:28:15 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Folks: If you can, be sure and see the movie Fire In The Sky, that will be showing starting this friday in the USA. It explains Travis Waltons abduction by a UFO that happened 18 years ago. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14381 alt.alien.visitors:14279 alt.religion.kibology:7278 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Answer Message-ID: <77252@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 06:38:01 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the illustrious one referred to by the august name of Jaguar is 100% correct. I don't debate. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markh From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sagan vs. A Legitimate Psychiatrist Date: 11 Mar 1993 18:19:43 GMT Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1nnvrvINNfhs@uwm.edu> References: <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4 In article <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >The contrast between Dr. Gordon's report and Sagan's --- whatever >it is, personal bias, disinformation, anything but 'science' -- is >quite striking. Sagan's paper is the one full of holes. He would have us believe that we could be dumb enough or gullible enough to mistake the events surrounding the paralysis for an alien abduction. Well I have news for him. It happened to me when I was 6, and I knew what it was even WHILE it was happening. And I've never heard of this syndrome until last week. So if a 6 year old child, completely clueless about this condition can discern its true nature even as it is happening, then there's no way that adult human beings can be taken in by the experience! This explanation is therefore invalid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <1993Mar11.180926.6961@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1n8l9mINNofv@aludra.usc.edu> <1993Mar6.015843.16702@netcom.com> <1993Mar8.145954.12065@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 18:09:26 GMT Lines: 21 In article <1993Mar8.145954.12065@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes: >In article <1993Mar6.015843.16702@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >>... >>Odds ARE, it's exactly what we think it is, a scramjet vertical takeoff >>aircraft. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Hmm. Where'd you get that from? Even "Aviation Leak" hasn't mentioned >that, or did I miss an article? > >Jeff The information I have seen, which is somewhat conjecture, is that it has vents or ports all over it for vectoring thrust, and these could be used for very short, or non-existant take-offs. It has been my theory that the B2 is experimentally designed to opperate in this fashion as well. This could be one reason that we have only go very guarded views of it. Or, there could be different modeles of the B2 as well. But a heavy bomber is less likely to be taking of vertically than a reconissance aircraft. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Re: Aliens Technologically Advanced? Message-ID: <1993Mar11.184747.12874@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 18:47:47 GMT Lines: 32 ^It's not the advanced technology that bothers me. It's that there is no ^guarantee they are advanced socially. Technology can be reproduced with little ^or no understanding; but social developement--that takes awhile. ^If ET life span is longer, I'd expect them to be scientifically advanced, for ^individuals could work longer on a specific project. Definitely an advantage. ^However, with longer life span, I'd acspect a less develope societal ^environment--namely there would be less generation turnover--hence less ^change. ^A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land, ^ ^ +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ ^ | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably | ^ | not your's either; and | ^ | only mine, when authorized! | ^ | | ^ | Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com | ^ +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ I agree... A longer lifespan would decrease the maturing rate of a species... It may even make them antagonostic because they like the way things are and don't like to change their ways of thinking. They wouldn't last long in a fight with us though.. Since we are very adaptable and can change our moti operandi before they can even start to change theirs. ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Humans Interesting? Message-ID: <1993Mar11.183754.10946@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar4.185023.13273@unlv.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 18:37:54 GMT Lines: 149 In article <1993Mar4.185023.13273@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >In article payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > >^In article <1993Mar3.012106.7244@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu ^writes: >^> I'ld like to start a debate about weather or not >^>aliens would find us interesting enough to go through >^>the trouble of visiting our planet and risk their lives >^>in the effort to obtain information about us... > >^If the abduction claims are correct, than it is *our* lives that >^they are willing to risk, not to mention what they are said to do >^to cattle. > > Not nessecarily... If our government got their hands on an >alien, worse will be done to it. This is the normal sci-fi expectation. What exactly would be done to it that is so much worse? > At least abductees are returned most >of the time..... An alien captured by the Gov. will not be let go >unless they can cut a deal or escape... Again, standard sci-fi. How do you know this? >^> I'll go first... Assume we evolved on this planet >^>from vegetarian primates to today's human or huwoman. > >^Why the vegetarian assumption? And which species is "huwoman"? Are >^they anything like humans? > > Huwoman was a little quirk of mine. Remind me to put a smiley >face next to a joke the next time. And our biology should be evidence >enough... We have an extra stomach called the ependix (spelling?) that >is worthless for us but works the same way as a gizzard does on a chicken >or the second stomach on the cow, and that is to help digest vegetable >matter and seeds. You mean the appendix? Are you claiming that it is -like- the gizzards in birds, or that the human appenix is functional in the same fashion? It seems that you are attempting to differentiate between carnivores and herbivores. Man is neither, being an omnivore. I will accept non-carnivorous, but I do not see that you have prevented any evidence for man being non-omnivorous. > Also, our teeth are flat and more useful for grinding >than tearing, ask any dentist that. And the little incisors in front >could simply have been a product of evolution as we began to prey >on those less smart vegetarians. > >^>How many animals of today can trully say that they have drastically >^>climbed the ecological food change of Earth? > >^Animals, almost by definition it would seem, cannot speak. > > Not in our tongue at least. But their biology and evolutionary >chains do speak for them. They make noises and communicate, but they do not speak. They are not physically equipped to do so. I believe your use of the word "speak" is overbroad, or we need to clarify if we mean something different. >^> We are the only ones >^>who came all the way from being eaten by all preditors >^>to eating all preditors. > >^Us or the "huwoman"? Do you mean that we have become predators? > > Yes. Our behavior exhibits preditory instincts. War is not >done by vegetarians amonst themselves... Reallly, you should watch what happens around mating times, and when there are territorial disputes. > You might use mating fights >but those aren't trully wars... They are simply tests for dominance and >to ensure the healthiest gene pool. I think that human wars are mostly nothing more than territorial disputes, and much aggression is based on mating conflicts. Most animals are in heat once a year. Humans are always in heat. > Now many preditors will war with >each other. EI: A pack of Hyenas guard their territory fiercely. So >does a pride of lions. Wolves are more diplomatic and usually settle >their disputes by having the leaders fight each other (something we should >adopt?). The very fact that our appendix (spelling again?) is useless >and potentially harmful to us should prove that we have abandoned our >ancestral vegetarianism for a more daptable omnivorous stance. I do not think that the appendix proves that man has not been omnivorous all along. And your use of the word war seems to be human specific. If this is so, then by definition, animals cannot make war. But what does this prove? >^> This evolutionary leap is very amazing >^>if you stop to think... > >^Is it? > > Of course it is... Check the backgrounds of all the animals >and tell me where one has become a top-of-the-chain preditor when their >ancestors were low-on-the-chain prey. That in itself shows our uniqueness. You did not claim "uniqueness", but that it was "very amazing". But you have yet to demonstrate the "evolutionary leap". How low on the food chain do you claim early man was? >^>An alien biologist would think it interestesting too. > >^Other posters have posted that there is no reason for ETs to come >^here, the nasty smelly humans would just spoil their party. I tend >^to agree with you, although I cannot give any sound reason why this >^must be true. How can you discount out of hand that they are looking >^for new food sources, another planet to colonize, etc... and could >^care less about and local animals, including us. > >^> ^^^^^^^BLONDIE > > > I am not discounting other reasons why they would come down here... >I simply gave one reason why they would. No, you gave one reason why you think they would. > And yes they would be concerned >about us Why? Repetition is not evidence. > unless they were Very biologically different in which case, they >most likely wouldn't find the environment on our planet very hospitable >for their kind of lifeform. This would be an important factor if they were planning to colonize, but not necessarily a problem for a technologically advanced race which wanted to observe/study another. >^Rich > >^payner@netcom.com > > > > ^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Sagans Article Message-ID: <1993Mar11.180110.5891@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com> <1993Mar10.170241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1993Mar11.155109.17701@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 18:01:10 GMT Lines: 49 In article <1993Mar11.155109.17701@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >In article <1993Mar10.170241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >>In article <1993Mar10.202159.28959@netcom.com>, jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >>> In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: >>>>In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. >>>> >>He must have been paid or otherwise convinced, because I have not >>known him previously to employ such SLOPPY science! To use the >>results of a 6,000 subject survey, and blithely extrapolate it to >>global magnitude -- producing the non-credible figure of over >>100 million abductees (it was obviously SUPPOSED to be non-credible) -- >>is pure rubbish! > >If the sample population is properly chosen, a small group will accuratly >represent the whole group. For example, polls taken for the presidential >elections currently have about 1300 subjects. They represent the voting >part of 250 million people (in the US). I have seen the records for the >last 5 or 6 elections, and the polls have been accurate to within a few >percent. > >Now I am not sure about sampling for global results, where there are >many sub-groups, but if the survey was done properly, it should be >representative of the larger group. > >>He should be ashamed of himself. Actually, the Roper poll was conducted in a scientific, and correct manner, at the behest of Dr. Mack, not Sagan. The results showed somthing like 6 million americans (1 in 40) MAY have been abducted... Where Sagan is a buffoon, is to extrapolate those results to the entire population of the earth and arive with numbers like 100 million. This is pure muck raking in order to blow the numbers up so high that people will discredit the original poll. Sagan is smart, he knows how to make the whole situation appear absurd, but he can't fool people that have done thier own research into this subject... So either he is a true dolt, with such a narrow viewpoint that his stature as a scientist is threatened, or he has a mission in life to perpetuate the scoffing attitude of the academic world...most of whom don't know the first thing about UFO's, and refuse to even investigate it. I guess he is a likely suspect for the Majestic list. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Subject: We cannot give clone cells life, Sagan... Message-ID: <1993Mar11.192747.14114@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Reply-To: blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 19:27:47 GMT Lines: 16 ^".....Even we humans--who cannot quickly cross intestellar space or slither through walls--are able to clone cells...." - Carl Sagan. This was from jai@kryton.ngdc.noaa.gov (Joy A. Ikelman) posting of Sagan's Article/Excerpts. We are able to clone or make a cell, but we still are not able to give it life. Only when we splice it to a living cell does it live... I've read this in some medical journal while researching on HIV and AIDs. Therefore, the aliens may also not have a clue about how to create life in a fully equipted cloned cell. Thus it's back to the ol' test tubes or breeding stock.... ^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!infonode!ingr!dazixcon!suneyes!cgyoung From: cgyoung@suneyes.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Young) Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Message-ID: <1993Mar11.172525.5758@dazixco.ingr.com> Sender: cgyoung@suneyes (Greg Young) Nntp-Posting-Host: suneyes Organization: Intergraph Electronics References: <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 17:25:25 GMT Lines: 14 Respectfully - exactly how do you dissect a 1500lb bull in a farmer's pasture without getting your ass shot off or even being noticed? On one of the large ranches in the west this might could be done. However, many mutilation instances occur on small family farms. See author Linda Howe for documentation. Also, If one wanted to examine animals from an area, they could just buy some. Also, what exactly are those funny zig-zagging lights that frequent areas with mutilations? Greg Young Boulder Colorado Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14287 alt.conspiracy:23995 sci.skeptic:40575 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!utcsri!skule.ecf!rosen From: rosen@ecf.toronto.edu (ROSEN Dan) Subject: Re: FILE: Review of Mexican UFico UFO video - HUFON Message-ID: Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility References: <1nkeeaINN11i@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <1nm071INNaim@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 21:35:12 GMT Lines: 74 In article <1nm071INNaim@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> enrique@athena.mit.edu (Enrique Navarrete Pedraza) writes: >In article , rosen@ecf.toronto.edu (ROSEN Dan) writes: >--------------------------------------------------- > >Now let me get something straight, folks. I never said or implied that >Televisa was my source of information. I only mentioned having watched newscasts >and reading newspapers that REPORTED the widespread sightings which at the time >were just that, plain NEWS. Nothing was added to the newsreports to make them >sensational, they were outstanding by themselves. Now, this is VERY DIFFERENT >from TV PROGRAMS and books EXPRESSELY DONE by the people Dan mentions (ie. Pedro >....... >another very different thing is newsprograms (by Televisa as well as by the >goverment network) and newspapers not even close to Televisa REPORTING the >sightings along with other NEWS and showing the easily identifiable streets >of Mexico City where people were standing in crowds, stopping all traffic, >to gaze at the sky. This followed by lots of footage on the sightings It was the eclipse! People did not go to work, took holidays organized parties, and stop the trafic to see the ECLIPSE! I'm not aware of any such incidents regarding people seeing UFOs. (although for sure there were some parties organized...Hey! any excuse is valid :-) >themselves, which is a bit different than drawing charts of the Bermuda >Triangule in a UFO TV program, I suppose. > >About Jaime Maussan, the producer of the videos, Dan and myself might have >different opinions. Mine comes directly from a close friend that was present in >some of the filmings. Unlike Pedro Ferriz, Jaime Maussan does not come up with >any story/explanation about UFO sightings that he wants you to believe. He shows >you his videos with date and location and that's it, you believe whatever you >like. Now, my dear Enriquito. All the recent UFOmaniai started not in regular news programs but in "60 minutos" , this is the tabloid tvshow which attempts to copy "60 minutes" but is much closer to "Hard copy" or "Inside edition". (not that 60 minutes is that great, either, but has a bit higher standards). The producer of the videos, JAime Musan is the director, I believe, and "journa- list" in the program. I can't believe that somebody who's attending MIT (per- haps you are only visiting) will uncritically take his word. Or for that matter would be so uncritical in general (believe me there is no flame intended). This guy, Jaime Mussan-the anchor man, then went to "siempre en Domingo" (one very popular entretainment show were all the singers lipsink :-) which is from the same broadcasting company TELEVISA) and ask people to send him videos of UFO sightseeings. Gimme a f... break. Of course, anybody and everybody who saw a spot, or didn't see a spot, on their videos sent them. From them on, the reports on sightseeings have increased... of course, maybe the aliens have decided to visit us more often after the eclipse. Now, your admired journalist is selling a video of all this sightseeings which starts by talking about the mayan prophecies, and lots of mystical stuff... (see the "advertisement", I mean post, by Don Pullen... I hope I have his name right).... Hardly objective journalistic report. > >Now, if Virgin aparitions rank in the category of UFO sightings, as Dan suggests, >then half the world is worshipping UFOs. If you saw pictures or have you read any articles on the apparitions, and I mean virign's apparitions, in the farm in Cold Springs, Kentucky (where they have a whole commercial machine already selling T-shirts and other souve- nirs) you would probably agree with me that they do rank iin similar, if not the same, categories. > >Have a nice day everybody. > saludos, again. -Dan. ps. Does anybody know of any investigations from the mexican skeptical commitee ? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!spam!jaskew From: jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Message-ID: <2343@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au> Date: 11 Mar 93 06:12:21 GMT References: <1993Mar8.091948.14550@crc.ac.uk> Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide Lines: 20 In article <1993Mar8.091948.14550@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: >In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: >> The subject says it all. I have a article here that claims there's a UFO >> base in Lake Ontario, Come on, you can't expect us to believe that! Why would Aliens want to go to Canada anyway? The Bagels there are terrible and the nearest decent Chinese takeaway is in Oregon! So get with the program - aliens never go anywhere they are more than fifteen minutes away from a real Szechwan pork meal - with rice noodles and a decent beer. Sorry Canada just doesn't cut it anymore. Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Remote in thorny deserts, fell the grief. Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere, Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!megatek!max From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) Subject: Re: What the...?!! Message-ID: <1993Mar11.223854.3235@megatek.com> Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1993Mar10.230215.13619@unlv.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 22:38:54 GMT Lines: 38 From article <1993Mar10.230215.13619@unlv.edu>, by blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu : > In RE: Human?, Max Elliott max@megatek.com writes: > > What the heck are you tlaking about? I simply wished to > answer an email to me from Mark who incidently the Post Master > can't find... What is this about lying? When I write hypothetical > assumptions I do it in the third person to be as objective as possible.. > And what is this about me standing up? Oh I can stand up on my good > leg allright... walking around is another matter though....How > is this a destructive posting to answer another person's question... > Why bring up John Winston? Do you think he fabricated me?! Not!!! > Look at the path and email me (no flames please) to find out if > I'm really an honest to goodness person... Other than that I don't > understand what you are saying Max..... > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE No real flames your way, blondie. I have seen good posts from you in a.s.t.e. It is really a reference to Winston. I should have made that clear. I don't understand why you tolerate and support him, but that is your issue. I have a problem with JW's constant stream of lies. As anyone should/would have a problem with someone who lies consistently. Some may argue that it is just 'disinformation' or 'white-lies' or even just innocent ignorance, but this is JUST how people like the Bakker's (of TV evangelist fame) hide their ulterior motives etc. It is all the same in the end, UNTRUTH. And make no mistake, untruth kills. It can destroy a society in a fortnight. Look to the past and you will know that what I say is true. (take popular propaganda campains as examples). I have an open mind and do not immediately dismiss ANY plausible or even improbable explanation, but to post as TRUTH, things which are works of fiction and LABELED as such is beyond improbable, it is plain untruth. JW does more harm than his cute, shy outward appearance would lead you to believe. I have before and will again encourage everyone interested in finding TRUTH to place JW conveniently in your kill files. Max Elliott max@megatek.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Sagans Article Message-ID: <1993Mar12.003731.10549@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar10.170241.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1993Mar11.155109.17701@netcom.com> <1993Mar11.180110.5891@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 00:37:31 GMT Lines: 37 In article <1993Mar11.180110.5891@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: > The results showed somthing like >6 million americans (1 in 40) MAY have been abducted... > >Where Sagan is a buffoon, is to extrapolate those results to the entire >population of the earth and arive with numbers like 100 million. >This is pure muck raking >in order to blow the numbers up so high that people will discredit the >original poll. What Sagan says is "Unless aliens are partial to Americans...", and goes on to the extrapolation. You may be right: perhaps the space critters DO prefer to abduct and molest good, red-blooded Americans, and leave those dirty foreigners alone. > I guess he is a likely >suspect for the Majestic list. But you, sir, are *definitely* on the Paranoid list. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Truth is the summit of being: justice is the application of it to affairs. All individual natures stand in a scale, according to the purity of this element in them. The will of the pure runs down from them into other natures, as water runs down from a higher into a lower vessel. This natural force is no more to be withstood, than any other natural force." - Emerson: Essay, "Character" (1844) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Message-ID: <1993Mar12.010535.25571@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Reply-To: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 01:05:35 GMT Lines: 8 My brother went to Unerversity of North Dakota, Grand Forks. Their past-time was cow-tipping. You know, cows sometimes sleep standing up and you can walk right up to them and push them over. I think it's picking on poor stupid animals myself but I have to grin at the sight. Just a humorous look at "exactly how do you dissect a 1500lb bull in a farmer's pasture without getting your ass shot off or even being noticed"(GREG). ^^^^^^^BLONDIE Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14383 alt.alien.visitors:14292 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!rpi!scott.skidmore.edu!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <1993Mar11.182846.13996@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <64264@cup.portal.com>,<77171@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 18:28:46 GMT Lines: 12 In article <77171@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: I'll have to think a while to come up with an aswer >of what energy the space people use. >John Winston. what's the source? Oh... I get it... they use JOHN WINSTON for their fuel source. :) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar11.182305.13739@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar9.201609.28135@unlv.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 18:23:05 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1993Mar9.201609.28135@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: > Rich- > The government craft(s) in question are being stored >in a mine close to the Nevada Test Site.... Just thought you should >know.... > ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Um... Heidi dear... how do you know that these aircraft are in a hidden mine? do you have clearance that we should know about? Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!curt From: curt@cwis.unomaha.edu (Curt A. Humphrey) Subject: Re: Carl Sagan's Article Message-ID: <1993Mar12.015312.546@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 01:53:12 GMT Lines: 9 I for one do not agree with Sagan he is not looking at the total situation. I will be the first to agree I have not seen actual evidence to the Fact that UFO's are real. But when you look back How did we know the Moon and Planets where real Sure we looked at them and could see them just Like UFO's you can see them and take a Pic of them. But no one can show you one up close. the point I am making here is Sagan needs to be able to touch the craft in order to beleive they are real. Which brings up another question I don't think sagan was on any of the moon Missions so How does he know the Moon is Real? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Message-ID: <1993Mar11.191905.14793@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu>,<1nm8sdINN7kb@ub.d.umn.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 19:19:05 GMT Lines: 39 In article <1nm8sdINN7kb@ub.d.umn.edu>, rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) writes: >In article <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: >:In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: >:>The subject says it all. I have a article here that claims there's a UFO [deleted] >:>Titanium Knight >: >: There's a Book I have read bits and pieces of called "The Great Lakes >:Triangle". It deals with both the unexplained sightings of UFOs and the >:unexplained disappearances of vessels of all sorts in the area. I'll see if I >:can dig it up and post excerpts that I find prudent. There was one that stuck >:in my mind as interesting... the disappearance of the Edmund Fitzgerald - as >:per the song of a similar title. A HUGE freighter that was lost in one of the >:lakes... no wreckage was ever found. I'm not even sure if a single survivor >:was found either. > >I'm afraid you're wrong on that point. I'm in Duluth, where the Edmund >Fitzgerald last left before it sunk. At a museum here, they have >underwater pictures of the wreckage (from Couseau I believe - sorry if I >misspelled that). The wreakage was indeed found. The ship left in >december, the worst month for sailing because of very bad weather. >There was another ship that had it on radar on one pass, but by the next >it was gone. It was fully loaded with taconite (sp?) (or iron ore) and >probably was on the top of a wave and broke in half (as indeed the model >of the wrekage at the museum shows). This book _IS_ several years old [70's maybe? 80's possibly?]. Anyway... the point _I_ was making... was that it initially sunk without a trace and without a single survivor. There was no floating wreckage nor an oil slick to mark where she went down. She sank in 18something and it took HOW LONG to find anything? and it took a MASTER deep-sea diver to locate her. According to reports i've read... he must have lucked upon it because after a few feet down... it's pitch-black. anyway... i'm not here to argue... but if you're interested in the MANY happenings around the Lakes... read the book. I'll post the author tomorrow if I think of it. Bill Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14385 alt.alien.visitors:14296 alt.religion.kibology:7291 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Answer Message-ID: <77285@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 93 18:00:02 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: Thank you very much for your comments. They all help. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7292 alt.alien.visitors:14297 alt.folklore.urban:66711 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.folklore.urban Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 08:15:34 GMT Message-ID: <3208@israel.nysernet.org> Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology References: <1993Mar1.125604@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov> <76930@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@wang.com Lines: 12 In <76930@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: I was Jewish about many lifetimes ago. According to our records, you never paid up your pledge to the Chelm Jewish Appeal. Please remit at once or we will be forced to use sarcasm. -- /|/-\/-\ In real life, the Vice President chastises Murphey Brown |__/__/_/ for her morals. Bill Clinton plays the sax on "Arsenio |warren@ Hall." Though "Batman Returns" is fiction, it's not too / nysernet.org much stranger than truth - Caryn James, The New York Times Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14386 alt.alien.visitors:14298 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!bast From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) Subject: Re: UFOs on Madison Ave. Message-ID: <1993Mar12.033857.9562@wam.umd.edu> Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <76897@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar10.193049.25893@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 03:38:57 GMT Lines: 5 UFO's are seen at Kentucky Fried chicken all the time! Unidentified Frying Object Jaguar is it chicken or snapping turtle? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kitty.ksu.ksu.edu!news From: strat@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Date: 11 Mar 1993 22:08:19 -0600 Organization: Kansas State University Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1np2bjINNe22@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu> References: <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> <1993Mar11.172525.5758@dazixco.ingr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kitty.ksu.ksu.edu cgyoung@suneyes.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Young) writes: >Also, what exactly are those funny zig-zagging lights that frequent >areas with mutilations? Hmm. Possibly helecopters? Stratocaster -- Steve Davis (I'm a student, not a spokesperson!) strat@cis.ksu.edu - Kansas State University - Manhattan KS The white porcelain is screaming ayee! Thank god the boy's not alone. - Primus Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) Subject: Re: Sagan vs. A Legitimate Psychiatrist Message-ID: <1993Mar12.041250.16263@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 04:12:50 GMT Lines: 42 nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article <1993Mar10.171424.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >>witnessed "craft that fly at incredibly high speeds." Finally, a >>high-ranking European public-health official explained...that she >>herself had been abducted. These physicians appeared perfectly >>normal, and all of them were convinced of the reality of a >>phenomenon that I regarded as evidence of psychopathology... I wasn't >>in a position to decide whether extraterrestrials exist...But >>clearly *something* had happened to these people, something >>powerful, strange, and transformative."... > So what? There are psychiatrists today who still believe > in the old Freudian ideas of "id"'s "superego"'s, etc. Just > because a psychiatrist believes something doesn't, by itself, > mean the thing is real. > The bottom line remains the same: There is no evidence of > actual abductions. These days everyone and his brother has The point made by the psychiatrist -- a breed for which I harbour no sympathy -- was not that actual abductions had taken place, but that something had taken place in those people's minds. That is the same view as Carl Jung took in his study of UFO phenomena. He studied them without making any assumptions about the reality of UFOs and came up with very interesting conclusions, which had nothing to do with whether UFOs existed or not. As for Carl Sagan, I remember having watched, some years ago, a TV series on the universe, by Carl Sagan. In which we were treated with films of Carl Sagan wildly gyrating against an interesting backdrop of photographs, diagrams etc. of things astronomical. He did not appear to think those photographs, diagrams etc. of such importance that he should not obscure them with the display of his physique. I stopped watching the series -- which, without Carl Sagan, would have interested me -- on the second installment. I have no patience for posturing farts. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14387 alt.alien.visitors:14301 sci.skeptic:40593 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: John Winston Group Message-ID: <50M902dv3aGz01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 12 Mar 93 01:43:10 GMT Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 13 Hey John, I hear you've become organized. I hear that you and Gloria have a group that meets monthly. maybe some of your fans on the board would be interested in when and where they can actually meet you. Don't worry about me, I won't show up. I'm not trying to be rude but fair's fair. I banned Gloria from our group I don't think it would be nice if I showed up at hers no matter how curious I am. Denise -- ........--=={0}==--.........................--=={0}==--.............. --=={0}==-- * . *. dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com * .* --=={0}==--. * --=={0}==-- * . DENISE FAITH SOLIS --=={0}==--*.* --=={0}==--.....--=={0}==--..................*.............--=={0}==-- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: KRLL FILES : PART 1 Message-ID: <1993Mar11.200313.15598@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 20:03:13 GMT Lines: 595 The next few posts will be the complete KRLL Files as discovered by me. I don't know of their origin other than that described within the documents themselves. No flames please... they are not authored by me or anyone I know... they were... um... found by me on the diskettes of an old friend who was in the airforce for a time. I don't know where he got them either. They just make interesting reading for a dark and stormy night. Bill I'll post them in parts as I received them originally. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: (Part 1 of 4) **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES JANUARY 1988 BY O.H. KRILL ABSTRACT Throughout the forty year period when UFO have been actively observed in our civilization, a lot of data has been gathered -- data which has often pointed to aspects of the phenomena that have been supressed. As a result of the suppression and compartmentalization of the information, our culture has been fragmented into several levels of "reality" which both co-exist and oppose each other. Part of our culture does not or will not believe in the existence of other species; part of our culture acknowledges their existence or the probability of their existence; part of our culture is actually interacting with the other species. These simultaneous realities contribute to the condition of extreme confusion in which we find ourselves. Research into UFO's follows a similar pattern. Some view the matter in a completely empirical perspective; others search for patterns and functional relationships in events; still others go out and ask the right questions at the right time and get answers. Some of those answers that have appeared are, to some people, quite disturbing and fantastic. All in all, we are dealing with new concepts in physics, new concepts in psychology, and the gradually growing awareness that we are not only not alone here, but we have never been alone here. As if that were not enough, it turns out that factions of our society have known this, and apparently have been interacting with some of these alien species for quite a while. The bottom line is that all along, humanity has been led down a false path, a path that has been plagued by layer upon layer of conspiracies and disinformation. Technological knowledge and absolute power have been the motives on the human side. Survival has been the motive on the alien side, or at least as far as the predominant alien visitors are concerned. The intent of this paper is to bring much of the details regarding this into the open. You are not being asked to believe it, but to consider it in the light of what has happened, what is happening, and what may be developing right under our very noses. If you find that you cannot stomach such thoughts, or that you cannot deal with it, read no further. It is quite evident, or it should be, that the UFO situation is both complex and dangerous. The UFO problem is a multi- situational and multi-dimensional phenomena. We have established the following as having a basis in fact: o Craft from other worlds have crashed on Earth. o Alien craft are from both ultra-dimensional sources and sources within this dimension. o Early U.S. government efforts at acquiring alien technology were successful. o The U.S. government has had live alien hostages at some point in time. o The government has conducted autopsies on alien cadavers. o U.S. intelligence agencies, security agencies, and public agencies are involved in the coverup of facts pertaining to the situation. o People have been and are currently abducted, mutilated, murdered and kidnapped as a result of the UFO situation. o There is a current active alien presence on this planet among us that controls difference elements of our society. o Alien forces maintain bases on Earth and on the Moon. o The U.S. government has had a working relationship with alien forces for some time, with the express purpose of gaining technology in gravitational propulsion, beam weaponry and mind control. o Millions of cattle have been killed in the process of acquiring biological materials. o Both aliens and the U.S. government are responsible for mutilations, but for different reasons. o We live in a multi-dimensional world that is overlapped and visited by entities from other dimensions. Many of these entities are hostile. Many are not hostile. o The basis of our genetic development and religions lies in intervention by non-terrestrial and terrestrial forces. o Actual technology far exceeds that perceived by the public. o The United States space program is a cover operation that exists for public relations purposes. o People are being actively killed in order to suppress the facts about the situation. The CIA and the NSA are involved so deeply that exposure would cause collapse of their overt structure. o Facts indicate alien overt presence within five to ten years. o Our civilization is one of many that have existed in the last billion years. You will probably have more conclusions. To see, just read on.... Animal Mutilations and UFOs General Chronology In the middle of 1963, a series of livestock attacks occurred in Haskell County, Texas. In a typical case, an Angus bull was found with its throat slashed and a saucer-sized wound in its stomach. The citizenry attributed the attacks to a wild beast of some sort, a "vanishing varmint." As it continued its furtive forays through the Haskell County outback, the bloodluster assumed somewhat more mythic proportions and a new name was destined to endure: The Haskell Rascal. Throughout the following decade, there would be sporadic reports of similar attacks on livestock. These attacks were occasionally described as "mutilations." The most prominent of these infrequent reports was the mutilation death of "Snippy" the horse in southern Colorado in 1967, accompanied by area UFO sightings, a Condon Committee investigation and worldwide press coverage. It was in 1973 that the modern animal mutilation wave can be said to have begun in earnest. That year is generally thought of as the year of the last concerted UFO flap, although there may be reason to question that contention, given the events of two years later. In 1973 and 1974 the majority of the classic mutilation reports originated in the central United States. In 1975, an unprecedented onslaught spread across the western two-thirds of the United States. Mutilation reports peaked in that year, accompanied by accounts of UFOs and unidentified helicopters. In 1978, the attacks increased. By 1979, numerous livestock mutilations were occurring in Canada, primarily in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Attacks in the United States leveled off. In 1980, there was an increase in activity in the United States. Mutilations have been reported less frequently since that year, though this may be due in part to an increased reluctance to report mutilations on the part of ranchers and farmers. The mutilations still continue. Over ten thousand animals have died in the United States; although the mutilations have been occurring worldwide, the same circumstances are always present. General Observations Any investigation which intends to probe the systematic occurrence of the mutilation attacks upon livestock and other animals must include within its purview certain factors which may or may not be directly related to the acts of mutilation themselves. These mutilations -- the killing and furtive removal of external or internal parts -- have been directed at literally thousands of animals (primarily livestock) since the 1960s. The surgery on these animals is primarily conducted with uncanny precision, suggesting the use of highly sophisticated implements and techniques. The numbing and persistent regularity of the mutilations and the seemingly casual disposal of the useless carcasses all hint at extreme confidence -- even arrogance -- of the mutilators. It is an arrogance which appears to be justified by the freedom and impunity with which these acts have been carried out. The pertinence of a specific element of the problem is shortly revealed in the course of any thorough investigation into the mutilations. I refer to the appearance of unmarked and otherwise unidentified helicopters within a spatial and temporal proximity of animal mutilation sites. The occurrence of the two has been persistent enough to supercede coincidence. These mystery helicopters are almost always without identifying markings, or markings may appear to have been painted over or covered with something. The helicopters are frequently reported flying at abnormal, unsafe or illegal altitudes. They may shy away if witnesses of law officers try to approach. There are several accounts of aggressive behavior on the part of the helicopter occupants, with witnesses chased, "buzzed," hovered over or even fired upon. At times these choppers appear very near mutilation sites, even hovering over a pasture where a mutilated carcass is later found. They may be observed shortly before or after mutilations occur -- or within days of a mutilation. The intention here is merely to stress that the "mystery helicopter" element is a part of the issue which deserves scrutiny. The idea of "mystery helicopters" did not develop concurrently with the animal mutilations themselves. Such helicopters -- unmarked, flying at low levels, soundless (or sounding like helicopters) -- have been reported for years, and have been linked to an even more widespread phenomenon -- the "phantom" (fixed wing) aircraft. The helicopters themselves have been seen in area where UFOs were reported, in many countries. In some of the more interesting accounts, the mystery helicopters were seen with UFOs, or shortly after the UFOs were sighted. The most apt case I can think of, but certainly not the most isolated, is a case described by Virgil Armstrong in his lecture on "What NASA Didn't Tell Us About the Moon." He discusses helicopters and UFOs in general. Armstrong describes a friend of his that had invented a special camera arrangement with the idea that it would increase the chances of getting good pictures of UFOs. The camera was mounted on a gunstock along with a laser. The idea was to fire the laser at the UFO, if one appeared, and hopefully the UFO would come to a halt, enabling him to take some quality pictures. Not too long after they were set up in the desert, a UFO did in fact appear, and they fired the laser and the disk stopped in a hovering mode. They took quite a few good pictures of it. Shortly thereafter, the disk flew away. Within minutes, they heard the unmistakable sound of helicopters coming their way. The helicopters landed strategically around their group, and out of the choppers came a croup of Black Berets, which are strategic Air Force security forces. The commander of the Berets walked up to the group and said, "What are you doing here?" "Obviously, we are photographing flying objects, and we just saw a flying saucer and we got some very very good pictures of it." The commander then asked the leader of the group if he knew where he was. The group leader replied "No." The commander then said, "We suggest you get out of here right now!" The group leader then asked, "What right do you have to tell us to get out of here? Is this government land?" The commander of the Black Berets replied, "Indeed it is. It is Andrews Air Force Base, and if you are not out of here in ten minutes, you are under arrest." With that, the Berets removed the film from the camera, and the group left. Not only does this illustrate one kind of instance where UFOs are seen in relationship to helicopters, but it also illustrates the fact that either some of the disks are ours, or we have a military/government relationship with those who fly them. The helicopters mentioned above are not the mystery ones, but were United States military ones. Another case of military helicopters and United States-owned disks comes from the book "UFO Crash at Aztec," by Wendell Stevens. In the book he relates the incident where an Indian was backpacking in the mountains in the vicinity of Area 51, Groom Lake, on the Nellis AFB range north of Las Vegas. He heard approaching helicopters and hid out of sight. The helicopters were broadcasting a warning over public address systems for anyone in the area to show themselves because they were going to conduct a "dangerous military test." The Indian maintained his hidden posture, and the helicopters flew overhead and back down toward the Groom Lake facility. Minutes later, two helicopters were seen flying up the canyon with a black disk flying between them and slightly above them. They flew overhead and then the helicopters turned around and flew back towards the base, followed shortly afterward by the disk. The individual's name and how to contact him for further details is given in the book. The Mystery Choppers Situations involving the mystery helicopters appear to be a little more insidious. A good example is an event which occurred in Madison County, Montana, between June and October of 1976. Twenty-two confirmed cattle mutilations had occurred during that period, and they were accompanied by reports throughout the county of silent, unmarked, jet-black helicopters, flashing or steady anomalous lights in the air and near the ground, unmarked fixed- wing aircraft and white vans in remote and previously inaccessible areas. Toward the latter part of this period, in early autumn of 1976, a hunter from Bozeman, Montana, was out alone around 3:00pm one day in the Red Mountain area near Norris. He watched as a black helicopter without markings flew overhead and disappeared below a small hill. The curious hunter climbed to the top of the hill. There was the black chopper (a Bell Jet Ranger, he thought) on the ground, the engine still running. Seven men had apparently exited from the craft and were walking up the hill toward the observer. As the hunter advanced toward the seven, he waved and shouted congenial greetings. It was then that he realized there was something about the men -- they were all Oriental. They had slanted eyes and olive skin and were jabbering among themselves in some indecipherable language. They wore "everyday" clothes, not uniforms. Suddenly they began to return to the helicopter. The hunter, still waving and shouting friendly greetings, started after them. The Orientals quickened their pace. When the hunter approached within five or six feet, they broke into a dead run, crowded into the chopper and took off. In a documented "mystery helicopter" wave in England, accounts place Oriental-appearing occupants in an unidentified chopper. Slant-eyed, olive skinned, Oriental-seeming occupants have been a staple at the heart and at the periphery of UFO accounts for years. Significant numbers of the infamous "men-in- black" (MIB) have a similar appearance, but very often they are seen as very pale and gaunt men who are sensitive to light. In STIGMATA No. 5 (Fall-Winter 1978) Tom Adams outlined the most prominent speculative explanations accounting for the mutilation/helicopter link, including the following: o The helicopters are themselves UFOs, disguised to appear as terrestrial craft. o The choppers originate from within the U.S. government/military and are directly involved in conducting the actual mutilations. o The helicopters are government/military and are not involved in the mutilations but are investigating them. o The helicopters are government/military, and they know about the identity and motives of the mutilators and by their presence, they are trying to divert attention to the possibility of involvement by the military. The answer, as far as Tom Adams is concerned, could be a combination of the above explanations. There also has been speculation that they are involved in biological experiments with chemical or biological warfare or the geobotanical pursuit of petroleum and mineral deposits. On one occasion, an army standard-type scalpel was found at a mutilation site. Since the disks have been mostly involved with the mutilations, it is thought that this was a diversionary event. These events, or the discussion of them, is just the precursor to the actual revelations of what is behind the mutilations: alien acquisition of biological materials for their own use. To discuss this in a logical and sequential manner, we must review what has been really happening right under our noses: direct interaction with extraterrestrial biological entities (EBE's). To discuss that, however, we must attempt to start at the beginning with what we now know to be true. The Saga Begins It seemingly all began thousands of years ago, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's start with some events that we all are familiar with. In 1947, two years after we set off the first nuclear explosion that our current civilization detonated, came the Mantell episode, where we had the first recorded incident of a military confrontation with extraterrestrials that resulted in the death of a military pilot. It is quite evident now that our government did not known quite how to handle the situation. In 1952, the nation's capital was overflown by a series of disks. It was this event which led to the involvement of United States security forces (CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI) to try to keep the situation under control until they could understand what was happening. During this period, the government established a working group, known as Majestic Twelve (MJ-12). The original members were: Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, Dr. Vannevar Bush, Secretary James Forrestal, General Nathan P. Twining, General Hoyt S. Vandenburg, Dr. Detlev Bronk, Dr. Jerome Hunsaker, Mr. Sidney W. Souers, Mr. Gordon Gray, Dr. Donald Menzel, General Robert M. Montague, and Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner. The MJ-12 group has been a continuously existing group since it was created, with new members replacing others that die. For example, when Secretary Forrestal was upset at seeing the United States sold out in World War II, he wound up being sent to a Naval hospital for emotional strain. Before relatives could get to him, he "jumped out a 16th story window." Most persons close to him consider his suicide contrived. When Forrestal died, he was replaced by General Walter B. Smith. In December of 1947, Project Sign was created to acquire as much information as possible about UFOs, their performance characteristics and their purposes. In order to preserve security, liaison between Project Sign and MJ-12 was limited to two individuals within the intelligence division of the Air Materiel Command whose role it was to pass along certain types of information through channels. Project Sign evolved into Project Grudge in December, 1948. Project Grudge had an over civilian counterpart named Project Bluebook, with which we are all familiar. Only "safe" reports were passed to Bluebook. In 1949, MJ-12 evolved an initial plan of contingency called MJ-1949-04P/78 that was to make allowance for public disclosure of some data should the necessity present itself. Majestic Twelve was originally organized by General George C. Marshall in July, 1947, to study the Roswell-Magdalena UFO crash recovery and debris. Admiral Hillenkoetter, director of the CIA from May 1, 1947, until September, 1950, decided to activate the "Robertson Panel," which was designed to monitor civilian UFO study groups that were appearing all over the country. He also joined NICAP in 1956 and was chosen as a member of its board of directors. It was from this position that he was able to act as the MJ-12 "mole," along with his team of other covert experts. They were able to steer NICAP in any direction they wanted to go. With the "Flying Saucer Program" under complete control of MJ-12 and with the physical evidence hidden away, General Marshall felt more at ease with this very bizarre situation. These men and their successors have most successfully kept most of the public fooled for 39 years, including much of the western world, by setting up false experts and throwing their influence behind them to make their plan work, with considerable success. Until now. Within six months of the Roswell crash on 2 July 1947 and the finding of another crashed UFO at San Augustine Flats near Magdalena, New Mexico, on 3 July 1947, a great deal of reorganization of agencies and shuffling of people took place. The main thrust behind the original "security lid," and the very reason for its construction, was the analysis and attempted duplication of the technologies of the disks. That activity is headed up by the following groups: o The Research and Development Board (R&DB) o Air Force Research and Development (AFRD) o The Office of Naval Research (ONR) o CIA Office of Scientific Intelligence (CIA-OSI) o NSA Office Of Scientific Intelligence (NSA-OSI) No single one of these groups was supposed to know the whole story. Each group was to know only the parts that MJ-12 allowed them to know. MJ-12 also operates through the various civilian intelligence and investigative groups. The CIA and the FBI are manipulated by MJ-12 to carry out their purposes. The NSA was created in the first place to protect the secret of the recovered flying disks, and eventually got complete control over all communications intelligence. This control allows the NSA to monitor any individual through mail, telephone, telexes, telegrams, and now through online computers, monitoring private and personal communications as they choose. In fact, the present-day NSA is the current main extension of MJ-12 pertaining to the "Flying Saucer Program." Vast amounts of disinformation are spread throughout the UFO research field. Any witnesses to any aspect of the program have their lives monitored in every detail, for each has signed a security oath. For people who have worked in the program, including military members, breaking that oath could have any on of the following direct consequences: o A verbal warning accompanied by a review of the security oath. o A stronger warning, sometimes accompanied by a brow- beating and intimidation. o Psychologically working on an individual to bring on depression that will lead to suicide. o Murder of the person made to appear as a suicide or accident. o Strange and sudden accidents, always fatal. o Confinement in special "detention centers." o Confinement in "insane asylums" where they are "treated" by mind-control and deprogramming techniques. Individuals are released with changed personalities, identities, and altered memories. o Bringing the individual into the "inside," where he is employed and works for "them," and where he can be watched. This is usually in closed facilities with little contact with the outside world. Underground facilities are the usual place for this. Any individual who they perceive to be "too close to the truth" will be treated in the same manner. MJ-12 will go to any length to preserve and protect the ultimate secret. As we will see later, the characteristics of what this ultimate secret would turn out to be would change drastically, for it was something even MJ- 12 could not predict -- actual contact with alien groups. How the actual contact between the government and aliens was initially made is not known, but the government was made aware that it could be done by a civilian using the right equipment. Dr. Paul Bennewitz, civilian scientist, did so using computer equipment and informed the government he had done so, not realizing that by then, in 1983, that the government was in truth as deep into dealing with the aliens as his communications with them revealed. Dr. Bennewitz lives next to Manzano Weapons Storage Area in Albuquerque, New Mexico. He observed UFOs constantly over the area and initially decided that they were a threat to the installation. He proceeded to figure out a coding system and attempted and was successful in communicating with the aliens that were flying over that area. What he found out is that after initial contacts with the aliens years ago, we agreed to to provide them with bases underground in the United States in return for certain technological secrets which the aliens would reveal to us. The aliens would also be allowed to carry out certain operations, abductions, and mutilations without intervention. The original contact between the government and the extraterrestrial biological entities, who are grey in color and about 3.5 to 4.5 feet high (hereafter referred to as the Greys), was achieved between 1947 and 1951. We knew that the Greys were instrumental in performing the mutilations of animals (and some humans) and that they were using the glandular substances derived from these materials for food (absorbed through the skin) and to clone more Greys in their underground laboratories. The government was also aware that the Greys performed some of the abductions to secure genetic materials. The government insisted that the Greys provide them with a list that would be presented to the National Security Council. Through all this, the government thought that the Greys were basically tolerable creatures, although a bit distasteful. They presumed at the time that it was not unreasonable to assume that the public would and could get used to their presence. Between 1968 and 1969 a plan was formulated to make the public aware of their existence over the succeeding twenty years. This time period would culminate with a series of documentaries that would explain the history and intentions of the Greys. The Greys assured us that the real purpose of the abductions was for monitoring of our civilization, and when we learned that the abductions were a lot more frequent and insidious than we were led to believe, the government became concerned. Their concern was also based on additional information regarding the purposes for the abductions: o Insertion of a 3mm spherical biological monitoring device through the nasal cavity into the brain of the abductee. o Implementing subliminal post-hypnotic suggestions that would compel the abductee to perform some specific act at a time to be within the next two to five years. o Genetic crossbreeding between the Greys and human beings. o Insertion of discoid monitoring devices into the muscle tissue of the abductees. Presence of these has been verified by x-ray. By the time we had found out the truth about the intentions of the Greys (they intend to stay here and stay in control of our world) it was too late. We had already "sold out" humanity. Not that it would have made any difference, because they were here doing what they were doing anyway. In 1983, a story was outlined by government sources that said that the Greys are responsible for our biological evolution through manipulation of the DNA of already evolving primates on this planet. Various time intervals of the DNA manipulation were specified for 25,000, 15,000, 5,000, and 2,500 years ago. Originally, the government thought that the Greys meant us no harm, but today, in 1988, the picture that is emerging is exactly the opposite. The story now is one of great deception at several different levels: the Greys Trojan Horse-style manipulation and lying which allied MJ-12 forces with them four decades ago; the government's disinformation of the subject of UFOs in order to perpetuate the agreement with the Greys free of public scrutiny; the lies to the abductees; the Greys on-going abduction of people and mutilation of animals in order to harvest enzymes, blood and other tissues for their own survival needs; and a genetic blend of the Grey race and a tall Nordic race to enable Grey interface with humans to be done with greater ease. Information from a source at a southwest Army base reveals that these multiple levels of deception are true. It is also indicated that the goal of SDI (Star Wars) is actually to follow through with an attack, proposed by the Greys, on the Nordics when they arrive en masse between now and 1992. This time schedule seems to match with the post-hypnotic programming of many abductees for actions between the next two to five years. This same source sees the world dominated and controlled by the Greys in a way similar to that portrayed in the "V" television series -- they are concerned only for their own survival agenda, and this agenda requires biological substances from other life forms on our planet. The apparent reasoning for the Grey preoccupation with this is due to their lack of a formal digestive tract and the fact that they absorb nutrients and excrete waste directly through the skin. The substances that they acquire are mixed with hydrogen peroxide and "painted" on their skin, allowing absorption of the required nutrients. It is construed from this that some weaponry against them might be geared in this direction. Digitized by, and available from, IllumiNet BBS 4043771141 <0> eaponry against them might be geared in this direction. Digitized by, and available from, Illum Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: KRLL FILES : PART 2 Message-ID: <1993Mar11.200504.15671@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 20:05:04 GMT Lines: 309 (Part 2 of 4) **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES by O.H. KRILL Observations by a Visiting Nordic In October, 1987, UFO researcher George Andrews was successfully able to contact one of the Nordics not associated with the Greys, through a woman in California. What follows are the comments made by the alien: "Were you a culture about to invade, you would not do it with a flourish of ships showing up in the heavens and undergo risk of being fired upon. That's the type of warfare slightly less evolved beings get into. You would create intense confusion and disagreement with only inferences to your presence -- inferences which would [in turn] cause controversial disagreement. "The Greys are insidious little fiends. They did exactly [to us] what they're doing here [to you]. You are not on the verge of an invasion. You are not in the middle of an invasion. The invasion has already taken place. It's merely in its final stages. "What would you invade? [Here he describes the operational plan of the Greys from the beginning.] You would go to the most secret of communities within a society. In the case of the United States, you would go and infiltrate the CIA. You would take over some of them and you would take over part of the KGB. "You would create great dissension and disagreement between factions of the public at large -- some groups saying they have seen UFOs, others saying 'No, no, this is not possible.' You would involve two major countries in an on-going idiotic philosophical disagreement so that while the Soviet Union and the United States constantly battle back and forth about who has which piece of territory or whether one invades Iran or whether one invades Afghanistan or whatever... whether one dismantles one nuclear warhead or the other dismantles another group of warheads -- you would sit back and laugh if you had the capacity to laugh. "You would present yourself indeed to some in a group who would protect you [CIA or MJ-12] thinking they had a secret more secret and more perfect knowledge of something than anyone else on this planet had, and they would covet you and you would trust their own greed and you would trust their own mass stupidity to trap them. And you'd do it on both sides. "You'd show yourself to some of the mass populace to further involve [factions of] the government in an attempt to shut them up, to keep them even more busy quieting them and trying to 'stop more information about UFOs from getting out.' You'd have the mass populace to a state where they distrusted the government. 'Oh, why don't they believe us? Why can't they understand that these things are really happening? We're not crazy!' "So you would have battles constantly about whether UFOs exist or they don't exist. You would have the public and the government at each other's throats. You would set two major superpowers at each other's throats. And you would have set up groups like 'haves' -- the wealthy but contented -- and the 'have- nots.' You would plant the seeds of massive discontent. "Eventually you might have some show of ships landing in the 1990s. One or two. By the time they have landed, be assured they will be in complete control. You will start doing crossbreeds and more crossbreeds, generation after generation. "You bribe the government with a few tidbits -- a Star Wars system. You tease and tempt the Soviet Union with a laser system far finer than any of their own scientists could think of. And you always have that subtle inference -- just on the borderline of consciousness so that UFOs don't seem to believable, yet you keep it couched in secrecy and make it seem quite so insane that no one would believe them. On top of it, you would unleash forces that would want to kill them [UFO contactees] if they disclosed that the CIA is dealing with the exact same things the [contact victim] is. "Maybe one or two hundred years from now, some of the Greys will even physically mingle and you may have some creatures walking around who are pretty much hybrids between Greys and your own race. For now, anything that walks around will look much like yourselves. It's simpler. It holds down on mass panic. "Everyone who has experiences with them [Greys] will be at odds with the government. To add to that, we will go into a complete phased of earthquake after earthquake and upheaval after upheaval. "The inner core of the CIA is deeply controlled by the Greys. The CIA sees interaction with the Greys as a path to greater scientific achievement. "One reason you are seeing so many different kinds of UFOs is that other cultures are watching with extreme interest. Scientists from other cultures arrive to watch. The Greys have not only taken over the intelligence agencies, they have also taken over what those agencies call 'lunatic fringe groups.'" ***************************************************************** Well, that's what they Nordic had to say. The source of this also makes the following commentary: "The ultimate evil is that masked form of psychological complacency that leads one to adhere to a group philosophy rather than eke out one's own horizons. As soon as you acquire an awareness of being a so-called 'chosen special group,' you are on the way to a fall. That is the seed of destruction in any society and any culture and it leaves it vulnerable. It will be the eventual undoing of the Greys as well. They see not their error -- it is the very weakness they seize upon that is their own inherent weakness. To try and change a Grey, or a cultish type of 'Star Person,' or a CIA member is futile. It will happen, but all in its own good time... it is the spirit that makes anyone stand up and disagree with something that is untrue and incorrect that will be the thorn in the side of the Greys, and the other forces that have allied with them." During the occupation of the Greys, they have established quite a number of underground bases all over the world, especially in the United States. One such base (among others in the same state) is under Archuleta Mesa, which is about 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, New Mexico. Details about that base have come across by way of two sources. The first source is by way of an abduction of a woman and her son who witnessed the pickup of a calf for extraction of biological materials. "In May, 1980, a most interesting case occurred in northern New Mexico. A mother and her son were driving on a rural highway near Cimarron when they observed two craft in the process of abducting a calf. Both of them were then abducted and taken on separate craft to the underground installation, where the woman witnessed the mutilation of the calf. It was alleged that she also observed vats containing cattle body parts floating in a liquid, and another vat containing the body of a male human. The woman was subjected to an exam and it was further alleged that small metallic objects were implanted into her body as well as into her son's body. More than one source has informed us that catscans have confirmed the presence of these implants." The above extract is from a transcript of a conversation between Jim McCampbell and Dr. Paul Bennewitz on July 13, 1984. Bennewitz reports that through regressive hypnosis of the mother and child (required only in about 30% of abduction cases)and his own follow-up investigation (including communications receive via his computer terminal, which are ostensibly from a UFO-related source), he was able to determine the location of the underground facility: a kilometer underground beneath Archuleta Mesa on the Jicarilla Apache Indian Reservation near Dulce, New Mexico (since 1976, one of the area of the U.S. hardest hit by mutilations). Bennewitz' information is that this installation is operated jointly as part of an on-going program of cooperation between the U.S. government and EBEs. There are also underground bases at Kirtland AFB and Holloman AFB, as well as at scores of other bases around the world, including Bentwaters, England. Back to the base under discussion.... After Bennewitz briefed Air Force officials on what he had found, a trip to the area revealed the following data: The base is 2.5 miles northwest of Dulce, and almost overlooks the town. There is a level highway 36 feet wide going into the area. It is a government road. One can see telemetry trailers and buildings that are five-sided with a dome. Net to the domes, a black limousine was noted -- a CIA vehicle. These limos will run you off the road if you try to get into the area. To the north there is a launch site. There are two wrecked ships there; they are 36 feet long with wings, and one can see oxygen and hydrogen tanks. The ships that we got out of the trade are atomic- powered with plutonium pellets. Refueling of the plutonium is accomplished at Los Alamos. The base has been there since 1948. Some of the disks are piloted by the NSA. The base is 4,000 feet long and helicopters are going in and out of there all the time. When it became known that Bennewitz was familiar with this, the mutilations in the area stopped. In 1979, something happened and the base was temporarily closed. There was an argument over weapons and our people were chased out. The aliens killed 66 of our people, and 44 got away. One of the people who in fact got away was a CIA agent who, before leaving, made some notes, photos, and videotapes, and went into hiding. He has been in hiding ever since, and every six months he contacts each of five people he left copies of the material with. His instructions were that if he missed four successive contacts, the people could do whatever they want with the material. This agent calls an individual known to MUFON. Somehow, a description of the "Dulce Papers" was issued, and was received in December, 1987, by many researchers. The "Dulce Papers" were composed of 25 black and white photos, a videotape with no dialogue and a set of papers that included technical information regarding the jointly occupied (U.S.-Alien) facility one kilometer beneath the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, New Mexico. The facility still exists and is currently operational. It is believed that there are four additional facilities of the same type, one being located a few miles to the southeast of Groom Lake, Nevada. **************************************************************** "A general description of what these papers contain is that they contain documents that discuss copper and molybdenum, and papers that discuss magnesium and potassium, but mostly papers about copper. Sheets of paper with charts and strange diagrams. Papers that discuss UV light and gamma rays. These papers tell what the aliens are after and how the blood (taken from cattle) is used. The aliens seem to absorb atoms to eat. They put their hands in blood, sort of like a sponge, for nourishment. It's not just food they want; the DNA in cattle and humans is being altered. The 'Type One' creature is a lab animal. They know how to change the atoms to create a temporary 'almost human being.' It is made with animal tissue and depends on a computer to simulate memory, a memory the computer has withdrawn from another human. Clones. The 'almost human being' is slow and clumsy. Real humans are used for training, to experiment with and to breed with these 'almost humans.' Some humans are kidnapped and used completely. Some are kept in large tubes, and are kept alive in an amber liquid. "Some humans are brainwashed and used to distort the truth. Certain male humans have a high sperm count and are kept alive. Their sperm is used to alter the DNA and create a non-gender being called 'Type Two.' That sperm is grown in some way and altered again, put in wombs. They resemble 'ugly humans' when growing but look normal when fully grown, which only takes a few months from fetus-size. "They have a short life span, less than a year. Some female humans are used for breeding. Countless women have had a sudden miscarriage after about three months' pregnancy. Some never know they were pregnant, others remember contact some way. The fetus is used to mix the DNA in types one and two. The atomic makeup in that fetus is half human, half 'almost human,' and would not survive in the mother's womb. It is taken at three months and grown elsewhere." **************************************************************** Well, that's what the "Dulce Papers" review says. There are some pen and ink reproductions of some of the photos made in the laboratories (3), an illustration of what one of the wombs looks like (2' x 4'), an illustration showing one of the tubes where one of the "almost humans" is grown, a page showing a simple diagram of crystalline metal, pure gold crystal, and what looks like either a genetic or metallurgical diagram or chart. Also attached is what looks like an x-ray diffraction pattern and a diagram of hexagonal crystals, with a comment that they are best for electrical conduction. It would appear that the last half of material in the "review" applies to the supercrystalline metal used for hull structure, or something along that line. **************************************************************** Obviously, this is all rather bizarre from a certain point of view -- any point of view, in fact. Nevertheless, material that is supported by years of descriptions and multitudes of corroborations must mean something, especially when bumped against what is seen to be going on. It is apparent from this and other data that has been accumulated over the years, that there are underground bases and tunnel complexes all over the world, and that more are being constructed all the time. Many of you may recall the "Shaver" mysteries and inner-earth city stories. Well, all that is true. There are cities down there, amongst other things, and some of them have nothing to do with the main subject of this paper. They've been there for a long time. Let's change direction for a moment. One individual by the name of Lew Tery has been working on some ideas regarding UFOs and geomagnetic anomalies. I will go into what he has discovered (although the concept of the relationship is not new) and let you judge that for yourself. After purchasing aeromagnetic and gravitational anomaly maps from the United States Geological Survey, it becomes evident that there was indeed a valid connection between these areas and UFOs. Mr. Tery gave a lecture in Arizona about that relationship, and was subsequently harassed by the FBI, and told that the information is "sensitive." Mr. Tery took the hint and declined to talk publicly about it to the degree that he had been doing. Both the aeromagnetic and gravitational (Bougier Gravity) maps indicate basic field strength, as well as areas of high and low field strength. Interestingly enough, the areas of maximum and minimum field strength have the following: o All have frequent UFO sightings. o All are either on Indian Reservations, government land, or the government is trying to buy up the land. o Many of them, especially where several are clustered together, are suspected bases areas and/or areas where mutilations and abductions have historically taken place. In these observations, Mr. Tery has gone far, but he has gone a little farther in noting that there are times when the UFOs are seen in these areas. Through painstaking research, Mr. Tery found that the sightings, as well as many abductions and mutilations, occur: o On the new moon or within two days before the new moon. o On the full moon or within two days before the full moon. o At the perihelion (moon closest to earth) or within two days before the perihelion. A glance at the nearest farmers' almanac will give you the information you require as far as the days for this year or any other one. There seems to be no concrete explanation for the coincidence of the times and the events, but it is true. Digitized by, and available from, IllumiNet BBS 4043771141 <0> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: KRLL FILES : PART 3 Message-ID: <1993Mar11.200557.15744@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 20:05:57 GMT Lines: 787 (Part 3 of 4) **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES by O.H. KRILL The Men in Black All things considered, UFO research has become pretty much of a circus today, and the most intriguing and controversial sideshow skirting the edges is the question of the "silencers," or the mysterious "Men in Black." There is a strong subliminal appeal in these accounts of visits by mysterious dark-suited figures (I have been visited myself, as have others I've known) attempting to silence UFO witnesses. A typical situation would be that a witness has a UFO sighting or UFO-related experience. Shortly thereafter he is visited by one or more "odd"-looking men who relate to him the minutest details of his experience, even though he has as yet told no one for fear of ridicule or other reasons. The men warn him about spreading the story of his experience around and sometimes even threaten him personally, sometimes obliquely, sometimes directly. Any evidence, if it exists, is confiscated in one way or another. Sometimes the visit is for some totally meaningless reason and the subject of UFOs is hardly mentioned, if at all. But again, the men all seem to look alike. We actually seem to find ourselves in close proximity to beings who obviously must be directly connected in some way with the objects themselves or the source behind them, yet they seem to be functioning unobtrusively within the framework of our own everyday existence. The classic conception of an MIB is a man of indefinite age, medium height and dressed completely in black. He always has a black hat and often a black turtleneck sweater. They present an appearance often described as "strange" or "odd." They speak in a dull monotone voice, "like a computer," and are dark-complected with high cheekbones, thin lips, pointed chin, and eyes that are mildly slanted. The visitors themselves are often on absurd missions. They have reportedly posed as salesmen, telephone repairmen or representatives from official or unofficial organizations. Their mode of transportation is usually large and expensive cars -- Buicks or Lincolns, sometimes Cadillacs, all black, of course. I might note at this point that their physical appearance also has included beings that have pale-greyish skin, and that some of them have been seen to have blond hair, yet they wear the clothing and drive the cars previously described. Their cars often operate with the headlights off, but ghostly purple or greenish glows illuminate the interior. Unusual insignia have been seen emblazoned on the doors and the license plates are always unidentifiable or untraceable. The fabric of their clothes has been described as strangely "shiny" or thin, but not silky -- almost as if they have been cut from a new type of fabric. Their often mechanical behavior has caused them to be described by some as being like robots or androids (think back to the Dulce lab). A lot of descriptions of some of these "folks" are pretty bizarre. A businessman's family in Wildwood, New Jersey, was visited by an unusually large man whose pants legs hiked up when he sat down, revealing a green wire grafted onto his skin and running up his leg. There are other cases of MIB appearing on the other side of a wet, muddy field after a heavy rain, but having no mud whatever on their brightly shined shoes and in the bitter cold, out of nowhere, wearing only a thin coat. Their shoes and wallets all seem new and hardly broken in. They are not alone. They seem to have faceless conspirators in the nation's post offices and phone companies. Researchers and witnesses often report their mail going astray at an unusually high rate and being bothered by bizarre phone calls where they are spoken to by metallic, unhuman-sounding voices. Unusual noises on the phone, intensifying whenever UFOs are mentioned, and voices breaking in on conversations, have all led many people to suspect that their phones are being tapped. One can't discuss the MIB for long without mentioning the name of John A. Keel, an author who has written much about them. Keel has done more than any other writer to publicize this bizarre aspect of the UFO situation. Keel suggests that the UFO are part of the environment itself and come from another time-space continua; that most of the UFO phenomena is psychic and psychological rather than physical. Well, I personally would not define it that way, although those two components are certainly deeply involved in what's going on. The first noted appearance of the MIB was in 1947, at the scene of the Maury Island incident, where some debris was ejected from a disk, and subsequently recovered by officials, who loaded them on an Army bomber which crashed on takeoff. To illustrate a little how bizarre some of the incidents are regarding the MIB, I have assembled a short list of some of the more interesting factors in some cases: o An ex-Air Force man is gassed and interrogated by MIB after he has learned classified NASA secrets. o Closeup photos of UFOs were seized from a teenager who is also directly threatened by MIB. o MIB sighted in the lobby of the U.S. State Department leave a mysterious artifact. o MIB pose as Air Force officers to silence witnesses. o MIB tries to buy before-hours Coke and sings to birds in trees. o MIB disintegrates a coin in a witness' hand and tells him that his heart will do the same if he talks. **************************************************************** Throughout all this information, I have neglected to mention some aspects of the psychology of the Greys. Dr. Paul Bennewitz, in his original report to the government entitled "Project Beta," goes into some detail, which I will now discuss: o The alien, either through evolvement or because the humanoid types are "made," will exhibit tendencies for bad logic. They appear to have more frailties and weaknesses than the normal Homo Sapien. o They are not to be trusted. o Because of the aliens' apparent logic system, a key decision cannot be made without higher clearance. All are under control of what they call "The Keeper," yet it would appear that even this is not the final authority. Delays as long as 12-15 hours can occur for a decision. o Because of this apparent control, individual instantaneous decision-making by the alien is limited. If the "plan" goes even slightly out of balance or context, they become confused. Faced with this, possibly, the humanoids would be the first to run. o Psychologically their morale is near disintegration. There is pronounced dissension in the ranks -- even with the humanoids. o Because of their own internal vulnerability mind-wise to each other, there is a basic lack of trust between them. o They appear to be totally death-oriented, and because of this, absolutely death-fear oriented. This is a psychological advantage. o The prime, and weakest area discovered, probed and tested is exactly what they have used, thinking it their key strength -- that being the manipulation of and control of the mind. Manipulated in reverse- psychology they face a situation where they have a vulnerable, integrated weakness. o They totally respect force. **************************************************************** Grey Physiology and Anatomy The approximate height of most specimens is between 3.5 and 4.5 feet. The head, by human standards, is large in comparison with the body. Facial features show a pair of eyes described as large, sunken or deeply set, far apart or distended more than the human, and slightly slanted as Oriental or Mongoloid. No ear lobes or apertures on the side of the head were seen. The nose is vague. One or tow holes have been mentioned. The mouth area is described as a small slit or fissure. In some cases there is no mouth at all. It appears not to function as a means for communication or for food. The neck area is described as being thin, in some instances not being visible at all because of the tightly-knit garment. Most observers describe these humanoids as being hairless. Some of the bodies recovered have a slight hair-patch atop the head. Others have what appears to be like a silver skullcap. There were no breathing attachments or communications devices. This suggests telepathy with higher intelligence. In one instance there was an opening in the right frontal lobe area, revealing a crystalline network. This network implies the development of a third brain. The arms are described as long and thin, reaching down to the knee section. The hangers each contain four fingers, with no thumbs. Three fingers are longer than the other. Some are very long. Some are very long. Others are very short. No description is available of the legs and feet. Some pathologists indicate that that section of the body was not developed as we would anticipate, showing that some of these beings were adapted to life in the water. There was a webbing effect between the fingers on most of the specimens. According to most observers, the skin is grey. Some claim it is beige, tan or pinkish-grey. No reproductive organs or capabilities were discovered. No phallus. No womb. Confirms cloning mentioned by other sources. The humanoids appear to be from a mold, sharing identical racial and biological characteristics. There is no blood as we know it, but there is a fluid which is greyish in color. **************************************************************** The "Taxonomy of Extra-Terrestrial Humanoids," another offering by George Andrews, yields some other observations: o Working under the instructions of the humanoids from Rigel (the Greys), CIA and former Nazi scientists have developed and deployed malignant strains of bacteria and viruses, including AIDS, in order to exterminate undesirable elements of the human population. o The Greys are almost entirely devoid of emotions, but can obtain a "high" by telepathically tuning in the different kinds of intense human emotion, such as ecstasy or agony. (Does that explain why UFOs have always been seen in regions of war and human conflict?) o There are over 1,000 humans in the United States alone who are the offspring of intergalactic or extragalactic beings and terrestrial humans. (The son of an acquaintance of [deleted in original] is one.) o Throughout recorded history, as well as during prehistoric times, there has been constant genetic manipulation of and interbreeding with humans in order to breed out the less evolved simian traits. The Nordic races have participated in this from the beginning, and we are as much a part of them as we might suppose. o Greys have the ability to camouflage themselves as tall Blonds through mental energy projection. Blonds never project themselves as Greys. Some Blonds seen with the Greys are physically real, but are prisoners of the Greys who have either paralyzed them or have destroyed their ability to teleport through time and other dimensions. Note: A lot of the material obtained by George Andrews has as its source a Blond that is a time traveler that escaped the Grey takeover of their system. o Both Blonds and Greys have the ability to disintegrate matter into energy and then reintegrate the energy back into matter. This ability allows them to pass through walls and to transport abductees out of their cars with the doors still locked. o The original Rigelians were the Blonds until they were invaded by the Greys, a parasitic race, who took over and interbred with them. The original Rigelians were the ones who seeded the earth. It is because of this common ancestry that terrestrial humanity is of such interest to both the Blonds and the Greys. o Terrestrial human females can be impregnated either on board ship or while they sleep in their homes. Males need not be manifested in visible form for this to occur. o The Blonds now habitate the Procyon system. The conflict between the Blonds and the Greys is in a state of temporary truce, although the conflict between the Rigelian and the Sirius system is being fought actively. o The Blonds with speech abilities will respond violently if attacked or threatened, but the telepathic ones will respond peacefully. o Blonds were sometimes mistaken for angels in earlier centuries. They do not seem to age, and consistently appear to be from 27 to 35 human years old. **************************************************************** Confused? Well, now you can see why the natural diversity of the way things are are hard to sort out for the average researcher. The probability that this information is true or partially true remains fairly high, based on analysis of what we know about abductions and general contact between humans and EBEs that has been documented. **************************************************************** Real Esoterica -- Sirius and the MIB Let's regress for a moment back to the MIB. According to John Keel, the MIB often state that they are representatives of the "Nation of the Third Eye." Based on some of the info we have already researched, it is apparent that Sirius has been in contact with us for a long time. According to George Hunt Williamson (one of the early contactees) in his book "Other Tongues, Other Flesh," the earth allies of Sirius, i.e., the secret societies, use the Eye of Horus as an insignia. This symbol has also been seen on the MIB. Secret societies believe that there is a Great White Lodge on earth. They call it Shamballa -- and consider it to be the spiritual center of the world. Now, theosophists such as Alice Bailey say that the Great White Lodge is on Sirius. If the All-Seeing-Eye is a symbol of Sirius' earth-allies and the MIB wear that symbol, and if Shamballa represents the Great White Lodge on earth -- then the MIB are emissaries of Shamballa. Sirius and Shamballa are two sides of the same coin. This is verified in the book "The Undiscovered Country," by Stephen Jenkins. Jenkins was told by Buddhist priests that Shamballa was located in the constellation of Orion. The entrance to Shamballa on earth is usually placed in the trans-Himalayan region. Some assert it is in the heart of the Gobi Desert (where there have been allegations of crashed disks and bases). According to the explorer Nicholas Roerich, there are caves in the Himalayan foothills that have subterranean passages. In one of the these passages, there is a stone door that has never been opened, because the time for its opening has not yet arrived. In 1930, Doreal founded the Brotherhood of the White Temple. He says that the entrance to Shamballa is far underground. he goes on to say that space bends around Shamballa, and that there is a warp which leads into another universe. **************************************************************** Let's get back to something we can have more of a direct handle on. Many times psychics have been called upon by investigative authorities to evaluate situations, and in many cases what they have contributed has been very helpful. This was done in the case of animal mutilations back in 1980 by Peter Jordan, who engaged several psychics to render their impressions from photos and maps of mutilations and mutilation areas. What follows is a condensation of what was found during this exercise. Name of Psychic: Ronald Mangravite o This animal has been dead a few days. o Some parts are decaying faster than others. o There is an overload of electrolytes in the body possibly due to injection of a citrate. o Something wrong with blood. Picking up higher portion of plasma which may be lymphatic fluid. o Two men working on the animal. Very sharp surgical knives. o Men dressed in black. Jumpsuits. Shiny black nylon. o Winch line coming down from chopper. o Men are skilled ex-military. o Something is going to be done with the tissue. o Flurometry connection. Spectrophotometers. o Choppers are brown or grey. o Underground implications. o Experimentation with different analytical techniques. Name of Psychic: Elisabeth Lerner o Paramilitary forces. o A serious invasion of American privacy. o Non-American Indians part of secret project. o The word "Annide." o The word "Carmine" or "Karmine." o The symbol "dk." o A new wave of mutilations will strike near southwest New Mexico. o The Hobart Company is involved in this. (Refrigeration equipment?) o Three huge, doughnut-shaped objects will be seen in conjunction with these new mutilations. o Breakthrough in research. o Muscle relaxant injections. o Someone with the name "Empeda." o This is a Mexican operation. o Names "Kielman" and "Kelman." o Institution with many Lincoln Continentals and Cadillacs. o Laboratory underground. o Lilly Pharmaceuticals. o Roman numerals IVIII [sic]. o Name "Stephano." o The number "1714." o Last name "Audler." o First name "Mase." o Last name "Audli." o Jet rocket labs nearby. o Domes above the ground. o Vehicle ID # MP 1936. Small jeeps. o Last name "Plento." o Initials "C.B.P." heads operation. Wears brown military shoes. Army. o Number "1161." o Around an oil field. o Place where oil crosses in an "X" pattern. o Chemical engineering connections. o Mustard. o Periscope device on bottom of craft. Chopper called "The Shark." o Man with blond hair. English features. High forehead. Wears square ring. Insignia reads "C.B.P." Has something to do with ammunition. Colonel. Name of Psychic: Nancy Fuchs o Dusk scene. Men talking about some animal's throat. Something missing. o Cylindrical object. o Long thick object inserted into jugular vein. o Powerful energy flow emanating from device used to kill cattle. o Feeling of tremendous anger and hostility. o Research implication. Minerals needed for research. o Intimidation of rancher Gomez. o Embryos. o Thousands of samples needed for this breeding effect. o Crossbreeding. o Animal dies in seconds. o Jolts of electricity through animal. o Breeding and genetics involved. o Army background. o Liquid-filled shoes leave no prints. o Marshall. Army. Cap with black rim and gold braid. Pompous. White-haired. Very influential. Walks into Pentagon whenever he pleases. Commission given 15-18 years ago for mutilation project when he was overseas. Grand Marshall. Friend of General MacArthur. Lives in Dakotas. Money invested. High- priority issue. Tall. Heavyset. Only 17 people know of this. o Project with $2.5 million allocated early in game for breeding experimentation. Late 1960s through Pentagon. More and more money invested every year. o Land wanted. Want to destroy ranchers prime source of income. o John Mitchell connected to this. o Howard Hughes. o Uranium connection. o Picture complex. Faction-ridden. o Interest in speeding up growth of cattle. o Importance of pancreas. **************************************************************** Well, there you have that little presentation. I don't know what exactly to make of it, but there it is. Certainly a non-UFO implication here, however, it only relates to THREE mutilations. How about the other 10,000 -- most of which have the UFO connection? What did I tell you about a multi-level reality? **************************************************************** At this point, I will put some references and excerpts from some volumes that I believe are relevant to all the things we've been talking about. Where I feel it is applicable, I will comment on them. "The Goblin Universe" (p222) The ability to materialize mental constructs is not unknown. Suppose one creates a field with the mind that is strong enough to attract supercharged particles. The particles are real but unstable in their assemblage since the stability depends on the intermediate mental component. (p223) Physical aspect of UFOs and other phenomena lie in the behavior of electromagnetic fields. (p124) If all UFO incidents were chance encounters, someone would have obtained a filmed record or a series of stills years ago. The only way that such episodes can be engineered so that they remain total mysteries is for the entities to have advance knowledge of any situation before it occurs. (p117, referencing John Keel) These entities labor to cultivate belief in various frames of reference, and then they create new manifestation which support those beliefs. (p120) Illness is common after close contact with some beings. (p122) Guy Underwood classified primary geomagnetic currents into three classes: water lines, aquastats, and track lines. Some magnetic signals appear as spirals, others are linear. Gnats and flies congregate above magnetic patterns. **************************************************************** "Extra-Terrestrials Among Us" (p2-3) On several occasions after UFOs flew over missile sites, it was found that the targeting of the missiles had changed, and the warheads had to be replaced. (p3) On 22 June 1980 a UFO that was 10 miles in diameter was reported over the Kuwait oil fields. (p4) On July 30, 1985, a UFO over Mongolia that was 10 km in diameter was reported heading south. It was sighted by a Chinese jet and reported in the "Japan Times." The Unites States ignored this report. (p8) JANAP-146 specifies up to 10 years in prison and $10,000 in fines for anyone in government service who makes unauthorized public statements about UFO phenomena. The British Official Secrets Act makes similar provisions. (p9) Many routes of UFOs take the form of an isosceles triangle. (p16) On September 14, 1978, a UFO as big as an ocean liner flew over Italy, and over Rome on the 15th and 16th. Comment: This was two weeks before Pope John Paul I was found dead under suspicious circumstances. He was killed between September 28-29. Autopsy was refused. It was rumored he intended to reveal the Fatima message of 1917. (p 20) UFOs dart around in daylight at speeds which cannot be seen. (p22) An individual having one CE experience usually has another. (p24) There is no basis to support psychiatric pathology for UFO witnesses. (p24) Dr. Brian T. Clifford (Pentagon) announces on October 5, 1982, that contact between U.S. citizens and extraterrestrials on their vehicles is illegal. Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations (adopted July 16, 1969, before the first manned lunar landing) says that anyone guilty of this becomes a wanted criminal to be jailed for one year and fined $5,000. The NASA administrator is empowered to determine WITH OR WITHOUT A HEARING that a person has been "ET-exposed" and impose INDETERMINATE quarantine under armed guard, which cannot be broken even by court order. (p89) Mars has a history of transient phenomena. (p90) Temporary brilliant spots on Mars were reported by astronomers in 1890, 1892, 1900, 1911, 1924, 1937, 1952, 1954, 1967, and 1971. The distribution was non-random. Intensely dark spots, transient in nature, were reported on Mars in 1925, 1952, and 1954. (p93) About 33% of abductees are able to remember the experiences without hypnotic regression. 66% of the abductees were alone when abducted. (p94) Some abductees did not return but vanished permanently or were found dead after a UFO encounter. (p25) Records of the 687 B.C. battle between the Assyrians and the Hebrews indicate that "a blast from heaven" reduced the bodies of 185,000 Assyrians to ashes but left their clothes intact. (p145) Morris K. Jessup died under mysterious circumstances after a copy of his book "Case for the UFO" was sent to the Chief of the Office of Naval Research (ONR) in Washington. (p146 -- comments from "Case for the UFO") o Falls from the sky of flesh, blood, reptiles, etc., were due to either spoiled food or cleaning of holding tanks. o Comments describe TWO different space races who share the planet with us without our knowledge. They are not visitors -- they have been here longer than we have. They feel more at ease in the ocean. o The little men were almost wiped out by a serpent race identified only as the "S-men." S-men are ravenous for red meat, extremely materialistic, and are greedy for power. Comment: Sounds like the Deros of Shavarian fame. (p147) Thanks to Allen Dulles in partnership with Reinhard Gehlen, the Gestapo was transplanted intact into the United States system as the CIA, without the knowledge or consent of American citizens. Comment: Remember Reagan placing wreaths on graves of SS stormtroopers at the 40th anniversary of WWII? Roots of that symbolic gesture go deep. (p147) Reference the Intelligence Identity Protection Act of 1981: Freedom to speak about anything but the CIA. Some claim that concentration camps have already been built. Activation was sealed by Executive Order Rex 84. The next REX exercise in in 1988. (p148) Jessup: "I believe that space structures of 5-10 miles in diameter are sufficiently large to produce intelligently directed storms." (p150) Alleged alien comment in annotated edition of "Case for the UFO": "Men frozen helpless make good prey." (p151) Dr. James E. McDonald thought that the Federal Power Commission was evading the evidence concerning UFO involvement in the total power failure that paralyzed New York on July 13, 1965, and dared to say so in front of a Congressional committee. (p152) On June 13, 1971, James E. McDonald was found dead under mysterious circumstances, shot through the head with a pistol by his side. (p153) Murder disguised as suicide is one of the well-known specialties of the CIA. (p153) There is ample documentation suggesting that among the highest-priority covert operations of the CIA are those supplying heroin to the Mafia. The "war on drugs" is in fact a war on the independent drug dealer who constitutes a threat to the Mafia monopoly. Comment: Additional ways to subdue the population or eliminate undesirables? (p156) Karen Silkwood's murder disguised as auto accident. (p159) George Adamski, contactee in the 1950s had a special government passport. Possible CIA disinformation agent. (p162) Although mutilations were reported in England as early as 1904-1905, ("Winter of Weirdness"), the large-scale operations there began in 1973. (p163) A rancher and his sons saw a UFO as big as a hotel which was accompanied by four smaller ones. Rectangular in shape, 300-400 feet long, and 60 feet high. A helicopter approached it and turned into a small UFO. (p163) Phantom cars appear on roads, follow people, and disappear. (p163) A rancher and his wife looked at a UFO 5/8 of a mile away and reported that two appendages emerged from the egg-shaped object. (p164) Apparently UFOs have the capability of invisibility. (p164) Materialization of a Bigfoot before a witness. (p164) Dematerialization of Bigfoot before witness who shot it with a 16-gauge shotgun at point-blank range into its stomach. (p166) On August 21, 1975, a sheriff was chasing an unmarked helicopter in his plane in southwestern Nebraska at 0430 when the lights on the helicopter went out, and the only thing seem on the ground was a missile silo. (p166) About the time mutilations began in earnest (1973 wave), a new branch of science was beginning to develop -- biogeochemistry -- analysis of mineral and oil deposits by analysis of tissues of herbivorous animals. (p168) An elderly lady in Arkansas in 1979 injured herself and was cut during a fall. The injuries were repaired by two aliens, who gave her a piece of metal with pyramids and six- pointed stars on it. The aliens told her they "consumed juice," but not the kind consumed by humans. Six weeks later, she was out looking for her dog and spotted a horse lying on its side, unconscious. Two men in white, dressed like surgeons, were at work on the horse. There were two Air Force helicopters parked in the clearing, two men in Air Force uniforms, and the same two aliens who had helped her after her fall. The lady was spotted by the group and she was overtaken by a helicopter which flashed a blue light on her which burned her clothing. Help arrived as the helicopter retreated, and she was brought to the local hospital. People having nothing to do with the hospital staff began turning up to question her. After release she was harassed at all hours by strangers who insisted on questioning her, repeating the same questions over and over again. The couple moved to a different state, only to have it start all over again. MUFON began investigating this case, but as of 1986 had not yet made public its conclusions. Research into the case began in 1980. (p171) Tissue samples taken from a carcass revealed the presence of chlorpromazine, a tranquilizer. (p171 comment by Gabe Valdez) "Whoever is doing these mutilations are highly organized and have a lot of resources." (p172) The theory of biogeochemical basis for the mutilations fails to account for the fact that mutilations are worldwide. (p174) When FBI agent Rommel was given $50K to investigate the mutilations in one district in New Mexico, all mutilations in that district stopped during the year. (p177) The Condon Report, Rommel Report, and the Warren Report all have a resemblance. (p177) The human tendency to avoid facing unpleasant facts may allow parasitic entities to "farm us." (p178) A seven-year-old heifer was found whose unborn calf had been removed with breaking the placental bag. (p181) U.S. Senate lied to by Pentagon in 1968 during Senate hearings on UFOs. (p200) In an anonymous letter to a Denver paper on April 8, 1983, it was told that the mutilations are being done by a secret government group called Delta. Animal parts are used to test effects of germ warfare and poison (cyanide and dioxin) they are testing on civilians in America. Testing is associated with black helicopters. Helicopters are also used to ferry heroin and cocaine. Delta bases said to be all underground on Indian Reservations. HQ for operations and where a lot of choppers are based in 28 miles east of Albuquerque on I-40, then 14 miles north on a dirt road into the Laguna Indian Reservation. Comment: Disinformation attempt? (p204, UPI story, February 2, 1984) Dr. James Womack at Texas A&M University announced his discovery that humans share "perfect match" chromosomes with cattle. The perfect match is with portions of the 21st chromosome pair, a strand known to carry characteristics of Mongolism or Down's Syndrome, associated with mental retardation. Dr. Womack says, "We must have more in common than previously believed." (p205, 1984 letter) A recent arrival on the nutritional scene is protomorphogens, or glandulars -- ground up glands of cattle. If one takes these for a year you get "hooked" on them. Your own glands stop producing hormones. Many EBEs have no alimentary canals and no glands. In some cancer clinics, these glandulars are used to treat cancer victims, and so are glands from human fetuses. (p206) What is happening with the mutilations would make sense in human terms if the location on which the cattle grazed was important, or the parts taken could be used geobiologically (which they aren't). (p208) UFOs are: Extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, and time travelers. (p208) Some UFOs behave as if the UFO itself was a living organism. Comment: Refer to Trevor James Constable's book "Sky Creatures," for a discussion of biological aeroforms, of "Flying Saucers at Etibi-Raa," by Wendell Stevens for a discussion of just that subject. (p208) Entities with cyborg-like traits, having both mechanical and biological features, turn up quite frequently in reports. (p208) It is odd that among the viruses there are some that look like UFOs, like T. Bacteriophage. Do some UFO have the ability to operate in the micro-dimension of viruses? Comment: In the discipline of Yoga is noted the ability to become large or small. (p209) Anyone with more access to even one more dimension than we have access to could evade our most carefully planned investigations indefinitely. (p210) Modern brain capacity: 1300cc Cro-magnon man: 1400cc Baskop man (megroid [sic] race): 1800cc The last two appeared quite suddenly. (p210) Theory of Max H. Flindt attributes paradoxically rapid development of the human brain to interbreeding between primitive humanity and ETs. According to Flindt, schizophrenia is caused by subconscious racial memory of the ET branch of the family tree, longing for home. Considerable differences between glandular and nervous systems between primitive humans and ETs would provide a basis for traumatic tension associated with regressed memory. (p210) Our civilization has forgotten the existence of other intelligent beings in the universe. (p211) The idea that Homo Sapiens is unique is becoming no longer tenable. **************************************************************** Digitized by, and available from, IllumiNet BBS 4043771141 <0> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: KRLL FILES : PART 4 Message-ID: <1993Mar11.200953.15815@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 20:09:53 GMT Lines: 836 (Part 4 of 4) **************** * CONFIDENTIAL * **************** A SITUATION REPORT ON OUR ACQUISITION OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY AND INTERACTION WITH ALIEN CULTURES by O.H. KRILL Well, as if this weren't enough, let's examine the basic allegations that were raised by Gary Stollman when he held an empty BB gun to David Horowitz on KNBC Channel 4, Los Angeles, in October, 1987. Gary clearly though that he was alone in his knowledge, and evidently turned to desperation to have the public become aware of what he knew. For the sake of brevity, I will simply summarize the allegations, and make comments where I wish to do so: o His physical father is in fact a clone created by the CIA and alien forces. o Cloning is a part of a plot to overthrow the U.S government. o The CIA maintains mental-retraining hospitals. o Phones were turned off at Rohlman Psychiatric Hospital in Cincinnati for 48 hours after his arrival. o A former CIA official had an interview on KPFK radio in which he told a college audience that the CIA has towed barges across New York Harbor that were disease-ridden. o The CIA may have created the AIDS virus to wipe out the gay population. Comment: Hmmm, where have we heard THAT before? o The CIA assassinated John F. Kennedy and the 22 material witnesses who died with two years. Comment: Hmmmm, I have heard that as well. o He demands that the Air Force release all information on UFOs. o He demands that the information about Hanger 18 at Wright-Patterson [AFB] be released. o He relates that he spoke to a girl at Florida Junior College who told him that seven of her friends had been "replaced." o The CIA doesn't trust people on computers. o Individuals at the Optimist Boys School in Pasadena were recruited by others and given false IDs and birth certificates. o There is a secret group led by the President's own staff. o There are beings around with the power to teleport instantly and do the same to others; who can read and control minds, and transform matter into other forms and create it at will. o He asks for a congressional investigation and federal protection. o He states that he cannot harm anyone with an empty BB gun. **************************************************************** Well, what do you think? [Name deleted in original, replaced with the word "MUFON"] contacted Mr. Stollman's lawyer in December, 1987, and told him that some of what Gary had said may be true. His lawyer promptly made himself scarce. **************************************************************** For some of you who keep an eye on the news, the President (Reagan) has said some mighty interesting things in some speeches of his: To the students of Fallston High School in Fallston, Maryland, on December 4, 1985, he said: "I couldn't but -- one point in our discussions with General Secretary Gorbachev -- when you stop to think that we're all God's children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn't help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings on this earth together. "Well, I don't suppose we can wait for some alien race to come down and threaten us...." To the 42nd General Assembly of the United Nations, September 21, 1987: "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?" Comment: Apparently Mr. Reagan doesn't realize that war is NOT alien to the aspirations of peace -- it's always been here. **************************************************************** Does Mr. Reagan know something that we know but the general public doesn't know about what is happening and what will happen within the next five years? General Types of Entities The Greys are known to be of three types: o Grey 1: 3.5 feet tall. Large head. Large slanted eyes. Worship Technology and don't care about us. Type popularized in "Communion" by Strieber. o Grey 2: Same general appearance, although has a different finger arrangement and a slightly different face. More sophisticated than Grey 1. They possess a degree of common sense and are somewhat passive. It is not known if they require the secretions needed by Grey 1. o Grey 3: Same basic type. Lips thinner. Subservient to other two types. Other entities known to frequent this planet: o Blonds/Swedes/Nordics: Known by any of these names. Similar to us. Blond hair, blue eyes. Will not break law of non- interference to help us. Would only intervene if the Greys' activity would affect other parts of the universe. o Interdimensional: Entities that can assume a variety of shapes. Basically of a peaceful nature. o Short Humanoids: 1.5 to 2.5 feet tall, skin bluish in color. Seen quite frequently in Mexico near Chihuahua. o Hairy Dwarfs: 4 feet tall. Weigh about 35 pounds. Hairy. Neutral. Respect intelligent life. o Very Tall Race: Look like us but 7-8 feet tall. United with the Swedes. o Nordic Clones: Appear similar to us but with grey tinge to their skin. These are drones created by the Greys. Child- like mentality. o Men-In-Black (MIB): Oriental or olive-skinned. Eyes sensitive to light. Eyes have vertical pupils. Very pale skin in some types. Do not conform easily to our social patterns. Usually wear black clothes, drive black cars, and wear sunglasses. In groups they all dress alike. Sometimes time-disoriented. they cannot handle a psychological "curve-ball" or interruption to their plan. Often intimidate UFO witnesses and impersonate government officials. Equivalent of our CIA. From another galaxy. Although there are some 40 or more known types of aliens visiting our world at the present time, these are the most commonly seen types. Extract of information from: "UFO Contact from Undersea," Sanchez/Stevens Section 1: Regression session, Filiberto Cardenas (subject) Event date: 3 January 1979 UFO CEIII During the regression session(s) the following information came forth: 1. Subject was taken to one of three pyramid bases. Two pyramid bases are under ocean, one on land. Subject was taken to base between Berin and Santiago of the coast of Chile. Other underwater base is in the Atlantic in an unspecified location. The base was entered through an underwater tunnel. The aliens stated that they had been there 36 months at that time. 2. Aliens told the subject that there were six (6) other individuals whom the aliens had contacted. 3. Subject stated that the aliens voiced that they were eventually going to make themselves known to the world. 4. Aliens stated that they control the Chinese, and they have provided the Chinese with a device that can "paralyze cities and towns completely." 5. Aliens stated that the device will cause a change that "is going to be something for which the world cannot wait." The Chinese are to provoke certain unspecified changes, and that in those changes, "people who are negative will disappear." 6. Subject remembers seeing (future) scenes of people running disoriented along roads, and that there is a disaster coming. 7. Details of underwater tunnel described as walls of " firmed water," not rock. The ship evidently generated a force field which repelled the water around it. 8. Devices were supposedly installed in subject's head by aliens. Subsequent x-rays revealed nothing. (Session 3) 1. First contact with these groups of aliens began 4,000 years ago. 2. It has been thousands of years since this group last descended to earth. 3. If progress on earth does not continue, aliens will use more forceful demonstrations to get their point across that we must have peace and progress. 4. Subject was interrogated for 15 days after the events by US security and intelligence services. 5. Information from aliens had also to do with "an atrocity in the plans certain forces on earth had planned." 6. Subject was seven years old when contact with aliens first occurred. 7. Aliens have ability to dematerialize their craft. 8. Aliens stated that we should beware of other alien groups who will present themselves in a good light but if they pursue "bad objectives against us they could do two things. They could destroy this planet with the same arms that this planet has, or on the contrary, transport away all our arms in one operation, which would take no more than 20 minutes of our time. They can be visible or not, whatever they choose." 8. [sic] Treatise references 81 other crossbreeds from (negative) aliens who have performed duties on earth. Half alien-half earthling = Crossbreed 9. Aliens spoke of great portions of land and whole cities will [sic] disappear. Mexico City and major cities in California. History and Operations -- Operation Trojan Horse The amusing little mystery of flying saucers slowly evolves into a complicated series of coincidences and paradoxes as we plunge deeper and deeper into the data, excluding nothing, and considering everything as objectively as possible. Our skies have been filled with "Trojan Horses" throughout history, and like the original Trojan Horse, the SEEM to conceal hostile intent. Several facts are now apparent: o The objects have always chosen to operate in a clandestine manner, furtively choosing the hours of darkness for their enigmatic activities over thinly- populated areas, where the possibility of being detected is slight. o The hostility factor is further supported by the fact that the objects chose, most often, to appear in forms which we can readily accept and explain to our own satisfaction -- ranging from dirigibles to meteors and conventional-appearing airplanes. o The objects of unusual configuration, undoubtedly constituting a deceptive minority of all the paraphysical objects flitting about in our atmosphere. In other words, flying saucers are not at all what we have hoped they were. They are a part of something else. John A. Keel called that something else "Operation Trojan Horse." When one really digs into UFO literature, it readily becomes clear that the ultraterrestrials deliberately conveyed whatever impression that would meet the available frame of reference for that time. Until 1848, the religious frame of reference was constantly used by the phenomenon. As man's technology improved many of our old beliefs were discarded and the "phenomenon" was obliged to update its manifestations and establish new frames of reference. No more objects were seen in 1947 than had been seen in 1847. We were simply seeing them in a new way. A new game was being played with us. A new game has emerged: the artifact or hardware game. The phenomenon has always obliged us by planting false evidence all over the landscape. UFO cultists trapped themselves into a hopeless situation almost from the outset. The apparent purpose of most of the landings seems to have been to advance belief in the frame of reference, not to provide absolute proof that the frame of reference is authentic. Physical Evidence All kinds of junk have fallen out of the sky throughout recorded history. Ivan T. Sanderson has in his files extensive lists that go back to Roman times. Ridiculous things such as stone pillars and heavy metal wheels have come crashing out of the blue, and there are countless cases of ice blocks, some weighing hundreds of pounds, dropping all over this planet. The flying saucers have been spewing all kinds of trash all over the landscape. In nearly every instance, these materials always prove to be ordinary earthly substances like magnesium, aluminum, chromium, and even plain old tin. Each of these incidents give the skeptics new ammunition. Mysterious hollow spheres have also been dropping out of the sky all over the world. Three such spheres were found in the Australian desert in 1963. They were about 14 inches in diameter and had a shiny polished surface. Efforts to open the spheres failed, and they were turned over to the USAF. Other metal spheres have dropped out of the sky in Mexico (1967) and Conway, Arkansas (1967). The Mexican steel ball was identified as titanium, the one in Arkansas steel. Smaller colored spheres were found scattered over the French countryside in 1966-67, as if it had been raining balls there. Where is all this stuff coming from? The same place as the stone pillars and blocks of ice. Innumerable cases of contact and landings have been flushed down the ufological drain because of the deliberate "negative factors." Sincere witnesses have actually been ruined because the amateur UFO investigators have accused them of being liars and worse. Another fascinating game which the ufonauts play with a vengeance is the "repair" gambit. Beginning in 1897, there has been an endless stream of stories and reports, many from reliable witnesses, on how they encountered a grounded UFO and observed the occupants making repairs of some kind. The basic details in all these stories are so similar that it seems as if the ufonauts are following a carefully rehearsed procedure. Generally speaking, there are three (3) types of beings observed in relation to UFOs: o Normal-looking people, including females. o Oriental, dark-skinned beings. o Unidentifiable creatures, who have made a real effort to hide from witnesses. Oddly enough, when all the reports and the data is in, the scope of the phenomenon and the overwhelming quantity of reports negates its validity. An analysis of cases indicates that flying saucers are not, in most cases, stable machines requiring fuel, maintenance, and logistical support. Most of them are, in all probability, transmutations of energy from other dimensions and do not exist in the same way that this paper exists. The UFO phenomenon seems to be largely subjective: that is, specific kinds of people become involved and are actually manipulated by the phenomenon in the same way that it manipulates matter. These subjective experiences are far more important to our study that the "random" superficial sightings. We are obliged to forget about the sightings and concentrate on the claims and experiences of the contactees. Thousands of UFO photos have been taken since 1882. There's just one problem. With very few exceptions, no two UFO photos are alike. The sightings force two unacceptable answers upon us: o All the witnesses were mistaken or lying. o Some tremendous unknown civilization is exerting an all- out effort to manufacture thousands of different types of UFOs and is sending them all to our planet. The governments of the world overtly have maintained variations of the first proposal. UFO enthusiasts accept the second. There is a third proposal which merits some attention: some "hard" objects definitely exist as temporary materializations from other dimensions. They leave indentations in the ground when they land. Witnesses have touched them and even been inside them. These "hard" objects may be decoys to cover the multitudinous activities of the "soft" objects. The "soft" objects hold one of the keys of the mystery. There are countless sightings of objects which changed size and shape in front of witnesses who often get the impression that it was alive, that it was not behaving like a mechanical object at all. There is no question at all that there are intelligences that can manipulate or materialize any kind of object into our dimension. Let's take a look, for a second, at the electromagnetic spectrum. As you know, our visual spectrum makes up a small portion of the whole. Look at what's involved with UFOs: Ultraviolet Blue UFO ENTRY FIELD _________________ Cyan ____________________________________ Green Visible Yellow Red __________________ Spectrum Magenta _________________ Infra-red UFO DEPARTURE Heat FIELD Radio If you will relate this to cases that you are familiar with, as far as appearance, spectrum shift when in flight, etc., you will see the applicability of the above diagram. When UFO stabilize in our dimension they radiate energy on all frequencies and become glowing white. Radical maneuvers require a frequency alteration, which produces color changes. It is interesting to note that in Blue Book Report #14, they replaced the phrase "Electromagnetic Phenomenon" with the word "Unknown" in a majority of those cases. Why? There is no doubt that again, a situation exists where we have multiple realities within the UFO realm as well. It is clear that we are not dealing with random ET visitors. It has an extreme element of intention to do with all of it. Mutilations started in April, 1897, with the abduction of Alexander Hamilton's calf, witnessed by several people. That is one of the constants that has been with us that has not changed frame of reference. How many people give thought to the three dark-skinned wise men who appeared before the birth of Jesus, spread the reality of the happening, and disappeared again. All the dark-skinned men in threes. MIB. It makes you wonder. Hmmmm. Charting the Enigma Well, here we are again. Taking a sample of 33% of 10,000 or so cases, or about 3,330 cases, we find that 730 are so-called Type I, a low-level object observed and reported by reliable witnesses. It was found that 2,600 were Type II, high-altitude objects performing in a controlled manner and distinct from normal aircraft and natural phenomena. The time of the sightings depends on where you are. If you are in a rural area, sightings conveniently begin after 10 p.m. A populated area would have them between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. For some reason, in many "flaps," Wednesday had about 20.5% of the sightings. Hmmm. Now, if the UFO phenomenon (and I dislike that word) had a purely psychic basis then I would think there would be more sightings on a Saturday, when people are statistically out and about than on Wednesday. There are notable exceptions to everything of course, one of which was the "flap" of August 16, 1966, which was on a Tuesday. Reports seem to cluster within political boundaries of states, as if there were a methodical exploration of states from border to border. If the UFO were a natural occurrence, one would expect otherwise. Thousands of sightings can be fitted into the "great circle" route, and often the dates are staggered so that it appears that the phenomenon moves systematically from point to point. Every state in the United States has from two to ten "windows." These are areas where UFOs appear repeatedly year after year. The objects will appear in these places and pursue courses confined to sectors with a radius of about 200 miles. The great circle from Canada (not to be confused with the traditional Great Circle) in the northwest through the central states and back into northeast Canada is a major window. Hundreds of smaller windows lie within that circle. Another major window is centered in the Gulf of Mexico and encompasses much of Mexico, Texas and the Southwest. As mentioned previously, many windows center directly over area of magnetic deviation. UFOs seem to congregate about the highest available hills in these window areas. They become visible in these centers and then radiate outward, traveling sometimes 100-200 miles before disappearing again. **************************************************************** Among the great heaps of neglected and ignored UFO data, we find hundreds of "minipeople" accounts. These are very rarely published anywhere because they tend to be so unbelievable. Most of them are identical to the fairy and gnome stories of yesteryear. Witnesses to these events can experience conjunctivitis, akinesia (paralysis), amnesia, and the other effects often noted by witnesses to more conventional events. One notable event is one that occurred in Seattle, Washington, in the latter part of August, 1965. A woman awoke around 2 a.m. and discovered she could not move a muscle or make a sound. Her window was open, and suddenly a tiny, football-sized dull-grey object floated through the window and hovered over the carpet near her bed. Three legs lowered from the object and it settled to the floor. A small ramp extended from it and five or six tiny people clambered out and seemed to work on some kind of repairs on the object. They wore tight-fitting clothing. When they were finished, they got in and the object took off and sailed out the window. At that point, she was able to move. The case was investigated by J. Russell Jenkins of Seattle. You can readily see why almost none of these kinds of stories ever appear in print, except in occult-oriented literature. Nevertheless, if we hope to assess the true UFO situation, we must examine all these stories. We can learn nothing by considering only those incidents which are emotionally and intellectually acceptable to us. **************************************************************** TIME is one of the most important aspects of the UFO thing. It plays a strange but significant role. Part of the answer may not lie in the stars but in the clock ticking on your fireplace. Our world exists in three dimensions. We can move in many directions within these dimensions. Space does not exist except when we make it exist. To us, the distance between atoms in our matter is so minute that it can only be calculated with hypothetical measurements. Yet, if we lived on an atom, and our size was relative to its size, the distance to the next atom would seem awesome. There is another man-made measurement called time. Unlike the other three dimensions, time has us seemingly trapped. Time becomes very real to us, and it appears that we couldn't live without it. Yet time doesn't really exist at all. This moment exists to us. Does this mean the same moment is being shared by other planets? The UFO phenomenon does seem to be controlled. It does follow intelligent patterns. If the objects themselves are manifestations of higher energies, then something has to manipulate those energies somehow and reduce them to the visible frequencies. Not only do they enter the visible frequencies, but they take forms which seem physical and real to us, and they carry out actions which seem to be intelligent. Thus we arrive at the source. The source has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the frequency spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the universe and maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create and destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by three-dimensional "space." Children. Children figure neatly into this, and they always have. The child's mind, especially before the so-called age of reason when the logic circuits begin to form, is a clear instrument, open and uninfluenced by opinions and conclusions. This is an important point in the UFO mystery. Perhaps if we were in a pure energy state, each particle of energy would itself serve as a synapse, and information could be stored by a slight alteration in frequency. All the memory fragments of a rose, for example, would be recorded at one frequency, and the whole energy form could tune into that memory by adjusting frequencies, as we might adjust a radio receiver. In other words, no complex circuitry would be required. No body would be necessary. The energy patterns would not need material form. It would permeate the entire universe. It could surround you completely at this very moment and be aware of all the feeble impulses of low energy passing through your brain. If it so desired, it could control those pulses and thus control your thoughts. Man has always been aware of this intelligent energy or force. He has always worshipped it. Our first conclusion is that the UFOs originate from beyond our own time frame or time cycle. Our second conclusion is that the source has total foreknowledge of human events and even of individual lives. Since time and space are not absolutes, these two conclusions are compatible. It is that all human events occur simultaneously when viewed by a greater intelligence. If a greater intelligence wants to communicate with a lower form, all kinds of problems are presented. The communication must be conducted in a manner which will be meaningful and understandable to the lower life form. An acceptable frame of reference must be found and utilized. UFO phenomenon, especially the "soft" ones, are frequently reflective; that is, the observed manifestations seem to be deliberately tailored and adjusted to the individual beliefs and attitudes of the witnesses. Contactees are given information which, in most cases, conforms to their beliefs. UFO researchers who concentrate on one particular aspect or theory find themselves inundated with seemingly reliable reports which seem to substantiate that theory. John Keel's extensive experiences with this reflective factor led him to carry out weird experiments which confirmed that a large part of the reported data is engineered and deliberately false. The witnesses are not the perpetrators, but merely the victims. The apparent purpose of all this false data is multifold. Much of it is meant to create confusion and diversion. Some of it has served to support certain beliefs which were erroneous but which would serve as stepping-stones to the higher, more complex truth. Whole generations have come and gone, happily believing in the false data, unaware that they were mere links in the chain. If it were all understood too soon, we might crumble under the weight of the truth. This earth is covered with windows into those other unseen worlds. If we had the instruments to detect them, we would find that these windows are the focal points for super high-frequency waves -- the "rays" of ancient lore. These rays might come from Orion or the Pleiades as the ancients claimed, or they might be part of the great force that emanates throughout the universe. The UFOs have given us the evidence that such rays exist. Now, slowly, we are being told why. **************************************************************** It is also apparent that some entities are having a good laugh at our expense. As mentioned before, literature indicates that the phenomenon carefully cultivated the religious frame of reference in early times, just as the modern manifestations have carefully supported the extraterrestrial frame of reference. The Devil's emissaries of yesteryear have been replaced by the mysterious "men in black." A major, but little-explored, aspect of the UFO phenomenon is therefore theological and philosophical rather than purely scientific. The UFO problem can never be untangled by physicists and scientists unless they are men who also are schooled in the other disciplines. The earth was occupied before man arrived or was created. That's an important point to consider. The original occupants were paraphysical and possessed the power of transmutation of matter. Man was the interloper. The inevitable conflict arose between physical man and the paraphysical owners of the planet. Man accepted the interpretation that this conflict raged between his creator and the Devil. The religious viewpoint has always been that the Devil has been attacking man (trying to get rid of him) by causing havoc upon him. There is historical and modern proof that this may be so. It is interesting that parapsychologists have long concluded that the paralysis that contactees experience is a contributing cause; that the entity may materialize by utilizing energy from the percipient himself. John Keel has in his files hundreds of cases, some of which have now been investigated by qualified psychiatrists, in which young men and women obsessed with the UFO phenomenon have suffered frightening visits from apparitions, followed up by mysterious black Cadillacs which appeared and disappeared suddenly, and have been terrified into up their pursuit of the UFOs. The phenomenon is again reflective in nature; the more frightened the victim becomes, the more the manifestations are escalated. Think about it. **************************************************************** The Other Side of the Coin There is a balance in nature, and there also seems to be a balance in the UFO picture. People have actually died after exposure to the gamma and UV rays from UFOs. But other people have actually had their ailments cured by similar rays. Occult literature is filled with accounts of this type. Except for those who might be specially constructed for incubus-succubus activities, it does appear that our "angels" and "spacemen" come from a world, in many cases, with sex -- and very probably, a world without an organized society; a world in which each individual is merely a unit in the whole and is totally controlled by the collective intelligence or energy mass of that whole. In other words, these beings, or some of them anyway, have no free will. They are slaves of a very high order. Often they try to convey this to percipients with their statements, "We are One," "We are in bondage." We face a great task in trying to isolate the UFO phenomenon from the larger and more important "big picture," the overall situation of which the UFOs are merely a small part. Elemental beings are another aspect of the world we live in. Children see them more than adults, perhaps for the reasons described before. Historical records certainly indicate that the little people have always existed all over this planet; that they possess the power of flight, the power of invisibility, and, to varying degrees, the power to dominate and control the human mind. Accounts of little humanoids with supernatural powers can be found in almost every culture. The manifestations have remained the same throughout history. Only our interpretations of those events have changed. It brought the birth of Spiritualism, which was in its heyday in the 1850s and 1860s, and was just another form of communication between the ultraterrestrials and ourselves. UFO flaps also parallel outbreaks of poltergeist cases. It all ties in together. Assuming that each discovered historical report represents a larger number of unpublished or undiscovered reports, just as today's UFO reports represent on the average 250 unreported or unpublished sightings, we can conclude that a flap condition existed, for example, in the years 1820, 1834, 1844, 1846, and 1849. We also find that there was an outbreak of poltergeists in 1835, 1846, and 1849. As the 19th century progressed, reporting improved, and we are able to make more precise correlations. A UFO flap took place in 1850, and there was also a series of poltergeist cases. A larger poltergeist outbreak occurred in 1867, following flaps in 1863-64. UFO activity became more intense beginning in 1870, and there were notable flaps in 1872, 1877, and 1879. The 1880s produced a major explosion of all kinds of phenomena, including the sudden disappearance of people. Poltergeist cases were in abundance in that decade, particularly in the big flap years of 1883 and 1885. Astrophysicist Morris K. Jessup labeled the years 1877-87 the "Incredible Decade" after scouring astronomical journals of the period. Astronomers made some remarkable discoveries during those years. The previously unobserved satellites of Mars popped into view in 1877, new craters appeared on the moon, all kinds of strange objects flitted around the upper atmosphere. **************************************************************** The trance phenomenon deserves extensive study because so many aspects of it are directly related to the contactee phenomenon. In both, you will find the same contradictions. There seem to be both good and evil forces at work. The good guys latch onto people with particularly receptive minds and turn them into trance mediums and the bad guys use the same methods to tamper with the minds of contactees and even to commit murder indirectly. Since incidents of these types can be traced throughout history, it seems probably that these forces have always been here on this planet. do the ultraterrestrials really care about us? There is much evidence to suggest that they don't. They care only to the extent that we can fulfill our enigmatic use to them. There have been innumerable psychic hoaxes for the past 150 years, and many of these parallel the UFO hoaxes. In ufology we have to contend with the teenager's hot air balloon, and in psychic phenomenon we have to worry about youngsters firing rocks at houses. There are, however, more UFO sightings than there are plastic balloons, and more poltergeists dumping rocks in living rooms than there are wild-eyed youngsters with slingshots. There are also more ultraterrestrial entities than either the occultists or the UFO researchers can dream of. Giant winged beings, usually described as headless, are an integral part of the UFO phenomenon. Winged human forms have been seen flying over many areas of the world. John A. Keel wrote a book called the "Mothman Prophecies" and Gray Barker a book called "The Silver Bridge" that go into some detail. They are usually described as having blazing red eyes set deep in their shoulders. **************************************************************** On May 13, 1917, three girls in Portugal were in the meadows of a place called Cova da Iria outside of Fatima, Portugal, when they saw a flash of light in the clear sky. They ran for shelter under a tree, thinking that was lightning. When they reached the tree, they stopped in amazement, for there hovering just above a 3-foot evergreen nearby, a brilliant globe of light hung suspended. Within this globe there was an entity garbed in a luminous white robe with a face of light which dazzled and hurt the eyes. The figure stated that it was from heaven, and asked the girls to come there on the 13th day, for six months in succession. On October 13, 1917, an estimated 70,000 people had gathered at the site. Suddenly the crowd screamed, for something came through the clouds: a huge silver disk which rotated rapidly as it descended towards the crowd. It seemed to change color, going through the spectrum. These gyrations continued for ten minutes. Miles from there, others were also watching the same object. The incident at Fatima was obviously a carefully planned and deliberately executed demonstration. The major prophecies of Fatima had been written down and sealed in an envelope, and turned over to the Vatican. They were supposed to be revealed to the world in 1960. The secret of Fatima? One Pope was murdered after only 30 days in office when the Vatican thought he would reveal it. It is said to be a prediction of the end of the world. The demonstration was therefore a failure as far as the ultraterrestrials were concerned. Such demos proved highly effective in Biblical times, but times were changing and new methods were called for. A similar event such as Fatima took place in Garabandal, Germany, on July 2, 1961. Even more startling, on the entity's right side they could see "a square of red fire framing a triangle with an eye and some writing. The lettering was in an old Oriental script." The Third Eye. Haven't we heard of that before? Remember the Nation of the Third Eye -- the MIB. etc? **************************************************************** ADDENDUM BY THE AUTHOR Gravitational Propulsion Well, I have gotten this far in explaining some things to you. I might as well turn to my favorite subject of all -- gravitational propulsion. The best place to start is with the efforts of a personal acquaintance of mine who had the good fortune to meet in England -- Mr. J. R. Searl. His investigations into gravitational propulsion have proven to be quite revealing -- he's done it, and I want to tell you about it. In 1949, he was employed by the Midlands Board as an electronic fitter. He was very enthusiastic about the subject of electricity, though he had no formal education on the subject other than was required by his job. Unhindered by conventional ideas about electricity, he carried out his own investigation into the subject. During work on electrical motors and generators, he noticed that a small electromotive force (EMF) was produced by the spinning metal parts -- the negative toward the outside and the positive toward the rotational axis. In 1950, he experimented with rotating slip rings and measured a small EMF on a conventional meter. He also noticed that when the rings were spinning freely and no electrical current was taken, his hair bristled. His conclusions were that free electrons in the metal were spun out by centrifugal force being produced by the static field in the metal. He then decided to build a generator on the same principle. It had a segmented rotor disc, passing through electromagnets at its periphery. The electromagnets were energized from the rotor, and were intended to boost the EMF. By 1952, the first generator had been constructed and was about three feet in diameter. It was tested in the open by Searl and a friend. The armature was set in motion by a small engine. The device produced the expected electrical power, but at an unexpectedly high potential. At relatively low armature speeds a potential of the order of 10^5 volts was produced, as indicated by static effects on nearby objects. The really unexpected then occurred. While still speeding up, the generator lifted and rose to a height of about 50 feet above the ground, breaking the union between itself and the engine. Here it stayed for a while, still speeding up and surrounding itself with a pink glow. This indicated ionization of air at a much reduced pressure of about 10^-3 mm Hg. More interesting was the side effect, causing local radio receivers to go on by themselves. Finally, the whole generator accelerated at a fantastic rate and is thought to have gone off into space. Since that day, Searl and others have made some ten or more small flying craft, some of which have been similarly lost, and have developed a form of control. Larger craft have been built -- some 12 feet and two 30 feet in diameter. Once the machine has passed a certain threshold of potential voltage, the energy output exceeds the input. The energy output seems to be virtually limitless. We made some measurements when I was there, and as far as we could see, the estimated output is somewhere in the vicinity of 10^13 to 10^15 watts. Above what appears to be the threshold potential, some 10^13 volts, the generator and attached parts become inertia-free. There is also some "matter snatch" upon acceleration away from the ground, since it tends to take a little "turf" with it when it goes. Analyzing what is happening is fairly easy. What the generator is doing is placing a "stress" on the ambient space around it. The space breaks down to provide the magnetism to relieve the stress, but the energy by-product is absorbed by the generator, which reinforces the field. It should be noted at this point that only a very small amount of space fabric passes through the craft and an even smaller amount is converted for energy. However, I have noticed that small changes in etheric forces lead to large physical effects. It was aptly demonstrated and I was impressed. Recently, Mr. Searl had (1987) a brush with authorities, when he began simply generating his own power for his own house. Now he doesn't have a very large house, but the Utility Board didn't like the fact that they had lost their monopoly. Now he lives in Birmingham under an assumed name. Simple, eh? ***** Digitized by, and available from, IllumiNet BBS -- 4043771141 <0> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: KRLL FILES : GROUP RESPONSE REQUESTED... Message-ID: <1993Mar11.201319.15965@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 20:13:19 GMT Lines: 8 I invite any comments on this to be either posted or sent via Email. I'd like to hear from anyone who knows the history of these documents or their validity or anything to do with them. thanks Bill Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: KRLL FILES : ORIGIN Message-ID: <1993Mar11.201113.15890@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 20:11:13 GMT Lines: 76 THE ORIGIN AND MEANING OF: KRLL KRYL O. H. KRLL O. H. CRIL O. H. KRILL The KRILL papers seemingly came out of nowhere and have stirred up a small hornets nest of speculation. Who is O. H. Krill? Is the information correct? Are parts of the text correct and parts incorrect? Where did the papers come from? I am going to answer SOME of those questions in this file. When the aliens landed at Holloman AFB in the 60's a basic communication was established between the United States Government and the aliens. During this communication a basic agreement was reached which was the precursor for the formal treaty and the diplomatic relations which followed. The aliens left a hostage with the United States as a pledge of fulfillment of their part of the agreement. The name of that hostage was KRLL and was sometimes spelled KRYL. I will refer to him as KRLL as this was the spelling used in the MAJESTY documents which I saw. This hostage furnished much information about the aliens which became the foundation of the "YELLOW BOOK" that was completed from information obtained from the "GUESTS" at a later date. In order that this information could be circulated and discussed among the military and the scientific community a pseudonym was coined as a code for information which had originated from KRLL. The code name for KRLL was Cril. The initials O. H. stand for "ORIGINAL HOSTAGE" All information thus circulated from the source KRLL was said to be authored by O. H. Cril. The information was usually of scientific or seemingly occult nature and was sanitized so that no inference to an alien race or culture occurred. This was done so that feedback and recommendations could be gleaned from those experts who were not privy to the secret. It was also used to pass technology from the aliens into the defense contracting community and the U. S. Space program. KRLL became ill after a few years and almost died but was nursed by a physician who eventually became the government expert on alien medicine and pathology. My information is that KRLL did at some later date die. The pseudonym continued to be used for the same purpose for many years and may or may not be in use at this time. The KRILL papers must have been authored by someone in the government or military who knew this information because the author O. H. Krill is an obvious take-off on O. H. Cril and thus on KRLL. I do not know who the author is and I do not know if the material is directly from KRLL or not. BUT IT IS APPARENT THAT WHOEVER O. H. KRILL MAY BE HE DID KNOW THE STORY OF KRLL. In my opinion the origin of the material will most probably be the object of much speculation. I cannot comment on the material which covers information that I have never seen before, however I can and will say that much of it is correct and agrees with the information that I have already released. I never saw the KRILL papers before in my life until the Sysop of Paranet RHO called my attention to them in a file on that board. This occurred only a few days before Christmas and I uploaded them to Ted Markley as soon as I could. He informed me however that he had already obtained them from another source. Bill Cooper From: brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 17:00:19 GMT Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <15840006@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Organization: HP Mfg. Test Div., Loveland, CO Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!hplvec!brian Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: <1993Mar3.084646.27724@fuug.fi> Lines: 76 anon@fuug.fi (The Anon Administrator) writes: >Bob states that there are two theories regarding gravity - gravity >is either a wave, or involves particles. He thinks that the particle >theory (gravitons?) is obviously not true. Well, that's the whole basis of modern physics - wave/particle duality. I don't like it either, but then, neither did Einstein. However, I don't think there's any effort to refute it. >Bob says that there are two type of gravity waves - Type A, which >is the "normal" type of gravity that affects masses, and Type B, >which he identifies as the STRONG Nuclear Force. The forces identified so far are the weak nuclear, strong nuclear, gravitational and electrical. To call the strong nuclear gravitational is stretching things a bit. >The reactor of UFOs contain element 115, which is not found on Earth. >This element is stable, and he claimed a certain rather high melting >point. In heavy elements such as 115 the strong nuclear force (Type B >gravity wave) actually extends past the boundary of the nucleus. >Since gravity is a wave, it can be amplified like any other type of wave. Can't address the chemistry of 115, but scientists have pretty much proven the existence of gravity waves. They have tried to detect them using extremely large masses, and assume that waves of gravity from pulsars or other massive, rotating objects in deep space are reaching Earth, causing spacial displacement that can be detected. My own pet theory is that gravity waves can be artifically generated and amplified. I like to think of gravity as an AC current flowing through a resistance (mass). Thus, equations such as Ohm's law apply. F=ma is identical in form to E=Ri, (voltage = resistance times current) and when the i is i(t) (in an AC circuit), and R is an impedance involving resistance and reactance (inductors and capacitors), you have tuned circuits that are useful in electronic circuits. Perhaps the same thing occurs in gravitational equations -- m (mass) having 'reactance' in addition to resistance -- imaginary mass and real mass. Imaginary mass occurs mathematically when the velocity of a particle exceeds the speed of light, so I think this makes sense. Thus, you should be able to make gravitational circuits. If you can do it with passive components like 'gravitational inductors' and 'gravitational capacitors', you should also be able to make amplifiers, rectifiers, and so forth. But don't ask me what these components are physically - I don't know. >The gravity wave is so powerful that it creates a distortion in the >space-time continuum. Normally, this type of distortion is found only >in the neighborhood of black holes. By distorting space-time, enormous >distances are traversed without having to spend light years worth of >travel. Easy to say, harder to figure out where the other end of the warp is. >He had some graphics which showed two points on a space-time grid. The >intense gravitational field caused the sheet to fold up in half, thus >bringing the two points very close. Why not? Carl Sagan has postulated as much with his worm-hole theory. > >8. Is there any possibility that the US government really has flown alien > vehicles at S4 in Nellis Air Force base? There is ample evidence that area 51 (Groom Lake, NV), which is a top secret proving ground that has doubled in size over the last 20 years has been testing the Aurora, a delta-wing ramjet capable of low altitude flight at Mach 6. This has been reported in Aviation Week magazine. Ordinary, intelligent engineers of quite Earthly origin are capable of designing such craft without violating physics. However, ABC has infrared footage, which they aired in a program last year, of lights in the night sky over the area that were clearly not Aurora. This has naturally given rise to Lazar's guess that alien spacecraft are being studied and flown there. He also claims to have been employed there and was on board one of the craft. Brian Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14388 alt.alien.visitors:14309 sci.skeptic:40596 alt.alien.visitors:14310 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Answers Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77076@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 06:34:33 GMT Lines: 7 In article <77076@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Thinkers: All I have to say is, "Never fear Kibo is here." Only a fool is never afraid of Kibo! -- K. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14388 alt.alien.visitors:14309 sci.skeptic:40596 alt.alien.visitors:14310 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Answers Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77076@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 06:34:33 GMT Lines: 7 In article <77076@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Thinkers: All I have to say is, "Never fear Kibo is here." Only a fool is never afraid of Kibo! -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!hagar7.acc.Virginia.EDU!bss2p From: bss2p@hagar7.acc.Virginia.EDU (Brent Stone) Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar12.054013.3202@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 05:40:13 GMT Lines: 69 In article <1993Mar8.201324.1@neptune.kingston.ac.uk> te_s227@neptune.kingston.ac.uk writes: > > >I think that some UFO reports may be caused by the sighting of a hi-tech >alien spacecraft. These are photon rockets using microwave photon radiation >to give thrust through radiation pressure. (photon reaction). >To give reasonable force huge powers are required so to lift 1000kg in >the earths gravitational field would be about 10**13 watt, ie 10TW. > >a burn of 1g/sec gives a power of 90TWatt. > >This power, on take off, would cause the burned rings observed, and the >air ionisation caused by the passage of such power through our atmosphere >causes the glows and pink light also observed in connection with some >sightings. This power also causes fluorescent tubes to light up if >the energy beam passes through them. These effects have all been observed. > >The microwave energy beam would be strongly absorbed by the atmosphere >because of this ionisation and the power level would soon drop. I have >estimated that the scattered power of isotropic radiation would be around >1MW and this is what causes the radio interference, also reported. It is >likely that the power would be pulsed in order to control it and the radio >interference would therefore be of a buzzing nature. > >There are difficulties with the effect of these huge power levels on the soil >any water in the soil would be very quickly converted into vapour and > cause the soil to be ejected (also observed). To appreciate the problem, >if the power was spread over a diameter of 20 meters (observerd in landing >reports where there is a trace) then the power is down to 3EXP6 ie 3MW per >cm squared. The microwave energy would penetrate into the soil with ab- >sorbtion depending on the frequency, and thus the heating effect would be >spread through a volume. I calculate that boiling point would be reached >quickly and appreciable quantity of vapour raised in about 1 second. Some >sighting reports have stated that the soil was "red hot" immediately after >take-off. > Photon pressure is cool, but I think what you are saying doesn't correspond to most sightings. 10TW expulsion is a huge amount of power to dump towards the ground during takeoff. I don't know why you also suspect microwaves are the most likely type of photons to use either. If you're in the mode of cooking microwave frequency thinking, some common types of ceramic and metallic materials can easily be heated to 1000C+ temps by using a smidgen of the power that you are suggesting. If what you are saying holds true, you would see molten rock, glass, etc, not just immediately under a supposed take off point, but say over a meter down or so. Plus you aren't considering what's happening during low velocity flight, which contributes to a huge amount of sightings. I haven't gotten into plasma physics theory yet, but I know the conditions for a microwave plasma existing are pretty narrow. To get the mean free path of particles in the right ballpark for inert/organic gas plasmas pressures a fraction of atmospheric are used. Guess you could look up or figure out how a pink glow would be created in the atmosphere. Last note is that if you reflect the radiation you get twice the momentum than if you just emit it. Big BIG difference in power. The US Navy had a succesful test of a small photon repulsor recently (past 6 mo's, as I remember it). I really would like to see footage of the event. Pretty amazing type of propulsion. BS Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!hagar7.acc.Virginia.EDU!bss2p From: bss2p@hagar7.acc.Virginia.EDU (Brent Stone) Subject: Re: Alternate Forms Of Energy Message-ID: <1993Mar12.062425.3759@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <1993Mar8.212738.21825@unlv.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 06:24:25 GMT Lines: 36 In article <1993Mar8.212738.21825@unlv.edu> blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) writes: > > John, How did they get around the Carnot efficiency >of 70%. Are they using a variation on the Stirling engine >or Vallieumier Heat Pump? Incidently the busses in Utah >are running on external combustion stirling engines. They >are using Hydrogen for the heat end and I think a radiator >for the cool end. My idea (which will be patented in '94) >will be about as efficient as a normal internal combustion ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >engine but more evironmentally friendly. Hate to tell you this, but you might as well not patent it. More environmentally friendly engines exist, probs are usually very high costs for equal or less performance. Talk to Smokey Yunick if you want ideas for improving performance and efficiency. But even he hasn't he hasn't found a cheap way to bring his fav 2-cylinder to market. >Do you think maybe >maybe the aliens have learn to use superconductors for >locomotion? They would have limitless energy from cold >fusion as well, I would assume they have it since >Fleischmann has recently discovered it here. Little side note here - Japanese researcher at NTT claims to have seen He4 emission from cold fusion in repeated tests with his cells. The cool thing is that NTT is offering to sell identical equipment and cells to anyone that shells out $565000. They're hoping for others to reproduce his experiments. > ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE ps. Didn't Ponds skip the country? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Cow Mutilations Across The U.s.a. Message-ID: <669.2B9F9F97@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 11 Mar 93 19:13:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From: max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) > Date: 9 Mar 93 23:02:26 GMT > Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California > Message-ID: <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com> > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > It's easy to produce bloodless incisions in a test subject. You > must first drain all the blood from the subject. simple, huh? > And, this may be done very cleanly, almost painlessly and with > absolutely NO mess whatsoever, using simple medical equipment > available at a pharmacy. Who might do this you ask? Well, cults > are very likely. Think about it. Remove the blood. Drink it and use > it in rituals, along with a few assorted other parts. Not very > complicated, easily possible, and even likely. Ok, so you have it figured out. Now, tell us why they use such high tech equipment to do the mutilations and why in hell would they want to leave the remains out in some farmer's field for all to see? Kinda defeats the purpose of doing a ritual in secrecy, wouldn't you say? BTW, I forgot. What cult would spend the immense amount of money for helicopters and laser equipment to do what most of the real cults do with a knife? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!news From: atemps@zax.acs.calpoly.edu (A Richard Temps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Got a response to a letter today... Message-ID: <1993Mar12.122216.131687@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 12 Mar 93 12:22:16 GMT Sender: news@zeus.calpoly.edu Distribution: na Organization: Academic Computing Services, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Lines: 53 Hello all... I got an interesting response from some people I wrote to a while back. I got an address from here a while back on how I could write a real, live Venusian. So, I sent off a letter with some questions and theories I had, and lo and behold, I got a nice response. I was told that I was definitely on the right track for my theories on Diamagnetism and propulsion theory, and it also went on to say how other craft were propelled by the sun (now powered by, propelled by), and that there were other drive mechanisms that are a tad far beyond us, involving time travel or dimension hopping or something... Anyways, I have a few conclusions: If humans appear in some of those craft, then maybe they would also live among us. I myself know a friend who worked at NASA/AIMES, and met a person there who swore that while he resided here, he was also a Venusian space captain, or something... my own experiences with the phenomena of paranormal abilities and interactions have led me to believe this stuff is possible. This, along with all these other reports of Venusians living among us (not _our_ Venus, but _a_ Venus), have led me to take these people at their word. So, I will post a full, edited version of my theory on propulsion in the future. I might have posted some shortened versions in the past, but I will clean it up and see what I can do on it. I've been studying the UFO phenomena for a while, and I think that although there are quite benign people Out There, quite a lot of them seem to see us more like laboratory rats... but in any case, the sheer number of UFO's and the variety of the observed inhabitants indicate that there's quite a variety of life forms out there, varied in both form, temperament, goals, and spiritual/ethical attainment. The one thing they do have in common is a technology at least five to a thousand decades ahead of us! I personally believe that the Diamagnetic drive they have as a 'basic' form of propulsion is something we can attain rather easily. It might not enable us to reach the stars, but it would definitely put all the planets in the solar system within our grasp. I think it would provide a means of transportation that would be very close to the theoretical minimum energy expenditure to move a mass from point A to point B. I'm not saying it would solve all our problems, but it would be a very good boost for this planet in any case. There does seem to be a good chance that portions of our government are working on/have achieved something like this, but I can't quite confirm or deny that yet until I develop some of my sources better ;) In any case, a lot of very good information has crossed this group, so everyone keep up the good work. Even John Winston has posted some things that I found to be very relevant to my own researches, so everyone, please, let everyone have their say here. If you don't agree with a post, don't start a thread of fifteen postings saying how you thought the original post was foolish and stupid, and spamming the bandwidth, but just ignore it or put the author in your killfile. Well, now, there's my two cents.... Look forward to a future posting on a full hashed out description of my theory (and who knows, maybe reality) on the methods of propulsion of UFOs..... - Richard Temps .sigfile? Whats that! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!decwrl!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: no evidence Message-ID: <1993Mar12.134324.15478@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 29 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 13:43:24 GMT In article , billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: |> |> There is not one shred of evidence that I can see |>that any of you exist. You are just phantoms on my screen. |>Expecially Peter. Prove to me that you exist. (No pictures, |>photos, witnesses, etc. I won't even belive you! You could |>be lying. No documents, no audio, video, or anything else |>wil;l be acceptable. Only your actual flesh and blood which |>of course could be faked.) You and everybody (myself included) are all fake. Gary STollman is the only true human being who really exists. The rest of us are figments of his imagination and or clones. Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!sdc!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) Subject: Re: Alternate Forms Of Energy Message-ID: <1993Mar10.184036.25989@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc Organization: Carl Pellonpaa Fan Club - South Chapter References: <1993Mar8.212738.21825@unlv.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 18:40:36 GMT Lines: 22 Blondie writes: >... They would have limitless energy from cold >fusion as well, I would assume they have it since >Fleischmann has recently discovered it here. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To quote Eli Wallach in "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly", "Come on, Blondie!" I'm guessing you're an engineering major; have you been following the literature on this? (I know, I know ... I'm just one of those close-minded scientists who doesn't believe in plasma cosmology either, right?) When F's results are confirmed outside his lab and reported in a reputable journal I'll send you a hundred bucks. If they're not reproduced by say 1995, you send me a hundred bucks. You're in Vegas - are you game enough to walk the walk? OBJ: What do you get when you offer a blonde a penny for her thoughts? Change. XXOX, Brownie Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!clam.rutgers.edu!loeckel From: loeckel@clam.rutgers.edu (chris Loeckel) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: MUST READ: Scientific Evidence of an Abduction Phenom. Keywords: abduction, aliens, UFOs, Laibow, hypnosis Message-ID: Date: 12 Mar 93 16:21:43 GMT Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 632 Reading about the Sagan article (but not the article itself) and the replies, I was reminded of this excellent paper posted some time ago to alt.alien.visitors. Dr. Laibow does not try to determine if abductions are actually happening, but does give us evidence that the people who report abduction experiences (unlike people who report other "strange" experiences) are NOT mentally disturbed; they are normal, average people from all walks of life, just like you and me. S/He (Rima?) also debunks the myth shared by ignorant people outside of psychology and psychiatry that the hypnotist can lead the client or patient to "remember" just about anything the hypnotist desires. Please read this article VERY CAREFULLY at least twice, as I think it is very important. Chris Loeckel "aspiring hypnotherapist," psychology major, 4th year, Rutgers University, Camden, NJ loeckel@flounder.rutgers.edu ------------------------------------ RIMA E. LAIBOW, M.D. Child and Adult Psychiatry Cerridwen 13 Summit Terrace Dobbs' Ferry, NY 10522 (914)693-3081 CLINICAL DISCREPANCIES BETWEEN EXPECTED AND OBSERVED DATA IN PATIENTS REPORTING UFO ABDUCTIONS: IMPLICATIONS FOR TREATMENT ABSTRACT: IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THIS PAPER MAKES NO ATTEMPT TO ASSIGN OR WITHHOLD EXTERNAL VALIDITY RELATIVE TO UFO ABDUCTION SCENARIOS. Patients who believe themselves to be UFO abductees are a heterogeneous group widely dispersed along demographic and cultural lines. Careful examination of these patients and their abduction reports presents four areas of significant discrepancy between expected and observed data. Implications for the treatment of patients presenting UFO abduction scenarios are discussed. INTRODUCTION If a patient were to confide to a therapist that he had been abducted by aliens who took him aboard a UFO and performed a series of medical procedures and examinations on him it is not likely that the patient would find either a receptive ear or a respectful and non-judgemental response from the therapist. The material presented would lie so far outside the confines of our personal and cultural belief system that it would seem intolerably anomalous to most of us. We would probably dismiss or repudiate it using a few comfortable and familiar assumptions which hold so much obvious wisdom that they do not require specific examination. When events which are too anomalous to allow their incorporation into our world schema are presented to us, we are likely to dismiss them by using assumptions based in out currently operative world view. This effectively precludes the open evaluation of the anomaly. Hence, the "expressible" response of most clinical and lay individuals upon hearing a UFO abduction account would be an immediate dismissal of even the possibility that such an episode might occur. Close upon the heels of that determination the rapid and complete pathologization of the person offering such an account would follow. Dream states, suggestibility, poor reality testing, outright dissembling or frank psychosis are customarily offered and accepted as evident and reasonable organizing models by which the production of this material may be understood. These are typical maneuvers by which the presentation of information which challenges schematic assumptions is dismissed or screened out before the assumptions can be adequately tested for predictive reliability and accuracy. Such testing is highly desirable, however, because it offers us the opportunity to apply the scientific method to our current level of theorital sophistication and thereby refine our understanding of reality further still. Of course, this process is severely impeded when the new data is excluded from consideration strictly because it is too anomalous for assessment. Westrum has offered a model by which events become "hidden" and therefore remain anomalous to the perception of society in a circular process: the hidden event is disbelieved and its disbelief helps to keep it hidden. Citing the lengthy period during which battered children and their battering parents remained hidden, Westrum states: "An event is hidden if its occurrence is so implausible that those who observe it hesitate to report it because they do not expect to be believed. The implausibility may cause the observer to doubt his own perceptions, leading to the event's denial or mis identification. Should the observer nonetheless make a report, he/she can expect to be treated with incredulity or even ridicule. Since the existence of a hidden event is contrary to what science, society, and perhaps even the observer believes, the event remains hidden because of strong social forces which interfere with reporting. The actual degree of underreporting is sometimes difficult to believe, a skepticism which itself acts as a deterrent to taking seriously those reports which do surface." (1) But for the clinician who spends a moment before reaching these "obvious" and "intuitive" conclusions, several fascinating and potentially productive questions present themselves. If we refrain for a short period from dismissing this material out-of-hand, we find that there are at least four areas of puzzling and important discrepancy between our intuitive sense of order and the data presented by the patient. These discrepancies force us to re-examine our assumptions in light of a demonstrated failure of the theory to account for the observed phenomena. This process, while taxing and challenging, is nonetheless, the way we systemize our understanding of human health and pathology. Noting the previously un-noted and using it to refine our conceptual framework leads to better prediction and therefore to better treatment. It is not the purpose of this paper to ascribe relative reality to the experience of abduction reported by some patients. Rather, precisely because it lies outside the realm of clinical expertise to assess with certainty whether these events actually occurred or if they are mere fantasy, it is mandatory for the clinician to examine the impact of these experiences, whatever their source, upon the patient. This must be done in a clear sighted and open-minded fashion so that the impact of the experiences may be dealt with rather than made into hidden events. AREAS OF DISCREPANCY 1. ABSENCE OF MAJOR PSYCHOPATHOLOGY: It is intuitively seductive (and perhaps comfortable) for us to assume that psychotic-level functioning will necessarily be present in a person claiming to be a UFO abductee. If this level of distortion and delusion is present, a patient would be expected to demonstrate some other evidence of reality distortion. Pathology of this magnitude would not be predicted to be present in a well integrated, mature and non-psychotic individual. Instead, we would expect clinical and psychometric tools to reveal serious problems in numerous areas both inter- and interpersonally. It would be highly surprising if otherwise well-functioning persons were to demonstrate a single area of floridly psychotic distortion. Further, if this single idea fix were totally circumscribed, non-invasive and discrete, that in itself would be highly anomalous. Well-developed, fixed delusional states with numerous elaborated and sequential components are not seen in otherwise healthy individuals. Prominent evidence of deep dysfunction would be expected to pervade many areas of the patient's life. One would predict that if the abduction experience were the product of delusional or other psychotic states, it would be possible to detect such evidence through the clinical and psychometric tools available to us. This points to the first important discrepancy: individuals claiming alien abduction frequently show no evidence of past or present psychosis, delusional thinking, reality-testing deficits, hallucinations or other significant psychopathology despite extensive clinical evaluation. Instead, there is a conspicuous absence of psychopathology of the magnitude necessary to account for the production of floridly delusional and presumably psychotic material.(2) In order to test this startling and anomalous information, a group of subjects who believe they have been abducted by aliens (9, 5 male, 4 female) were asked to participate in a psychometric evaluation. An experienced clinical psychologist carried out an investigation using projection tests (Rorschach, TAT, Draw a Person and the MMPI) and the Wechler Adult Intelligence Scale. The examining clinician was told "the subjects were being evaluated to determine similarities and differences in personality structure, as well as psychological strengths and weaknesses". All of the subjects actively refrained from sharing UFO-related experiences with the examiner and she was unaware of this theme in their lives. The investigator found that commonalties were not strongly present and that: "while the subjects are quite heterogeneous in their personality styles, there is a modicum of homogeneity in several respects: (1) relatively high intelligence with concomitant richness of inner life; (2) relative weakness in the sense of identity, especially sexual identity; (3) concomitant vulnerability in the inter- personal realm; (4) a certain orientation towards alertness which is manifest alternately in a certain perceptual sophistication and awareness or in inter- personal hyper-vigilance and caution.... Perhaps the most obvious and prominent impression left by the nine subjects is the range of personality styles the present.... There is little to unite them as a group from the standpoint of the overt manifestations of their personalities.... They [are] very distinctive unusual and interesting subjects. [But] "Along with above average intelligence, richness in mental life, and indications of narcissistic identity disturbance, the nine subjects also share some degree of impair- ment in personal relationships. For [some] subjects, problems in intimacy are manifest more in great sensitivity to injury and loss than in lack of intimacy and relatedness. [Ad] "...The last salient dimension of impairment in the interpersonal realm relates to a certain mildly paranoid and disturbing streak in many of the subjects, which renders them very wary and cautious about involving themselves with others. It is significant that all but one of the subjects had modest elevations on the MMPI paranoia scale relative to their other scores. Such modest elevations mean that we are not dealing with blatant paranoid symptomology but rather over-sensitivity, defensiveness and fear of criticism and susceptibility to feeling pressured. To summarize, while this is a heterogeneous group in terms of overt personality style, it can be said that most of its members share being rather unusual and very interesting. They also share brighter than average intelligence and a certain rich- ness of inner life that can operate favorably in terms of creativity or disadvantageously to the extent that it can be overwhelming. Shared underlying emotional factors include a degree of identity disturbance, some deficits in the interpersonal sphere, and generally mild paranoia phenomena (hypersensitivity, wariness, etc.)" (3) Her findings demonstrate a uniform lack of the significant psychopathology which would be necessary to account for these experiences if abduction experiences do represent the psychotic or delusional states predicted by current theory. When the examiner was informed of the true reason for the selection of the subjects for this evaluation (i.e., their shared belief that they had been exposed to alien abductions), she wrote an addendum to the original report re- examining the findings of the testing in the light of the new data. In it she states: "The first and most critical question is whether our subjects' reported experiences could be accounted for strictly on the basis of psychopathy, i.e., mental disorder. The answer is a firm no. In broad terms, if the reported abductions were confabulated fantasy productions, based on what we know about psychological disorders, they could only have come from pathological liars, paranoid schizophrenics, and severely disturbed and extraordinarily rare hysteroid characters subject to fugue states and/or multiple personality shifts... It is important to note that not one of the subjects, based on test data, falls into any of these categories. Therefore, while testing can do nothing to prove the veracity of the UFO abduction reports, one can conclude that the test findings are not inconsistent with the possibility that reported UFO abductions have, in fact, occurred. In other words, there is no apparent psychological explanation for their reports." (4) 2. CONCORDANCE OF REPORTED DATA: The second point of intriguing discrepancy follows from this surprising absence of evidence of a common thread of severe and reality-distorting psychopathology to account for the patient's bizarre assertions. They claim that they have been abducted, sometimes repeatedly over nearly the whole course of their lives, by aliens who have communicated with them and carried out procedures much like medical examinations. Persons reporting these experiences are seen to be psycho-dynamically varied. They are also demographically varied. Reports of this basic scenario, numbering in the hundreds, have now been recorded. Even though the reporters range from individuals as diverse as a mestizo Brazilian farmer(5),an American corporate lawyer (6), and a Mid- Western minister(7), there is a perplexing and intriguing concordance of features in these reports. Certain details of the scenarios repeat themselves with disturbing regularity no matter what the educational, national, social, experiential or other demographic characteristics of the reporter. In the production of dreams, reveries, poetry, fantasies and psychotic states, while the general themes of concern may be identified easily between individuals, the specific symbolization, concretion, abstraction and representation of those themes is relatively indiosyncratic for each individual. This of course necessitates careful empathic and attentive listening on the clinician's part to gather both the general flavor and specific meaning of the elements of the fantasy state. This careful listening often means that a personal symbolic representational system can be unraveled and its contents can be rendered less mysterious to the patient. In the abduction scenarios however, both specific details and themes repeat themselves with surprising regularity: In general, the appearance and modus operandi of the aliens, their effect and procedures, their tools and interests, their crafts and physical features all tally from report to report with a high rate of concordance. (8,9,10) This intriguing fact seems impervious to the socio-economic, educational, national, or cultural background of the abductee. Similarly, whether the individual has had previous contact with the literature of abduction seems to make little difference in this vein since the reports of individuals who can be shown to have had no exposure to abduction literature also contains these common features. Skilled practitioners and investigators report in these cases that they are convinced that each of these subjects was being wholly truthful in his/her report. The concordance of both content and event in these reports makes them unlike any other fantasy-generated material with which I am familiar. Indeed, investigators like Hopkins and others claim they have intentionally withheld dissemination of certain important, frequently reported aspects of the abduction scenarios in order to provide a "check" on the material being presented to them by individuals who may have had access to this literature since abductees may have been influenced at either the conscious or the unconscious level by it. In these cases as well, the features which have previously been published as well as those withheld are both produced by the abductee (11). In instances in which the patient has read some of the abductee literature, this previously withheld material may be offered to the investigator with a sense of personal invalidation, apology and embarrassment. He often expresses concern that this information is less likely to be believed than the other material with which he is already familiar. (12) Jung and others have written widely about the use of archetypes and the collective awareness of themes and images which are asserted to present themselves in a world-wide and multi-personal way. The amount of individual variation and creative latitude demonstrated within the closed system of archetypes and collected creativity is vast. Those who pose such universals detect their presence in the complex and highly idiosyncratic presentations and guises which they are given by the unconscious mind of the patient and the artist. This disguise is idiosyncratic, they hold, precisely because a set of available images is being used to work and rework the personal realities of the individual against the background of the collective. But the abductee does not seem to be involved in the reworking of personal mythologies against the canvas of the race's mythology. The details and contents of the scenarios seem, upon extensive investigation, to bear little thematic relevance to the issues inherent in the life of the abductee. Intensive follow up investigation frequently yields no thematic, archetypical, primary process symbolic meaning to the shape or activities of the abductors and the scenario of the abduction itself. Instead, therapeutic work in these cases centers around the issues inherent in the powerlessness and vulnerability of the individual even is this were not a prominent theme in his life before the putative abduction. In other words, the customary richness of association and creativity found in the examination of dreams and other fantasy material is lacking with regard to the scenario and presentation of the aliens who abduct and manipulate the patient in the abduction story. If the abduction material is indeed archetypal or fantasy generated in nature, this is a new class of archetypes. These archetypes demand rather exact representation and mythic presentation since the activities and behavior of the aliens is rather invariant within a narrow latitude regardless of the other dream and fantasy themes of the patient. 3. ABDUCTION SCENARIOS AND HYPNOSIS. Members of both the lay and professional communities frequently assume that material referring to UFO abduction scenarios is retrieved under hypnosis. Since it is generally believed that people under hypnosis are open to the implantation of suggestions through the overt or covert influence of the hypnotist it is concluded that this material reproduces the hypnotists' expectations or interests. It is further concluded that since the hypnotist "put it there" the abduction could not be accounted for as material which emerges solely from the patient's end of dyad. Thus, the abduction scenarios are commonly dismissed as merely representing the production of desired material by compliant subjects. The abductees strong sense of personal conviction that this really happened to him during the session itself and upon recall of the session is similarly dismissed as an artifact of the process by which the fantasies were generated. Several compelling factors mitigate against the facile dismissal of data in this way. Firstly, about 20% of these highly concordant abduction scenarios are available spontaneously at the level of conscious awareness prior to hypnosis. (13,14) These accounts may be enhanced or subjected to further elaboration through the use of hypnosis or other recall enhancement techniques, but in a significant number of people producing abduction scenarios the recall is initially produced without recourse to such techniques. If their stories were substantially different from the concordant abduction scenarios produced under regressive hypnosis, a different phenomenon would be taking place. However, given the perplexing clinical presentation of similar stories from dissimilar people who are uninformed about one another's experience, this presents another highly interesting area of discrepancy. Hopkins has classified patterns of abduction recall into five categories: Type 1. patients consciously recall parts of the full abduction scenario without hypnotic or other techniques designed to aid recall. The emergence of this material may be delayed. Type 2. patients recall the UFO sighting, surrounding circumstances and/or aliens, but do not recall the abduction itself. Only a perceived gap in time indicates any anomalous occurrence. Type 3. patients recall a UFO and/or hominids but nothing else. There is no sense of time lapse or dislocation. Type 4. patients recall only a time lapse or dislocation. No UFO abduction scenario is recalled without the use of specific retrieval techniques. Type 5. patients recall noting relating to UFO or abduction scenarios. Instead they experience discrepant emotions ranging from uneasy suspicions that "something happened to me" to intense, ego-dystonic fears of specific locations, conditions or actions. They may also exhibit unexplained physical wounds and/or recurring dreams of abduction scenario content which are not fixed in their experience as to place and time. (15) Examination of the transcripts of hypnotic sessions which yield abduction material reveals that although subjects are sufficiently suggestible to enter the trance state as directed by the therapist, they resist having material "injected" into their account. They customarily refuse to be "lead" or distracted by the therapist's attempts to change either the focus or content of their report. The subject characteristically insists upon correcting errors or distortions suggested or implied by the hypnotist during the session. Hence it is difficult to account for the similarities and concordances of these scenarios through the mechanism of suggestibility when these subjects so steadfastly refuse to be lead by hypnotists. In fact, it is even more striking that while these patients feel the material which they are producing both in and out of hypnosis as experientially "real", nonetheless they frequently seek to discount or explain away this bizarre and frightening material. This remains true even though sharing it regularly results in a significant remission of anxiety- related symptoms and discomfort. These abduction scenarios are so ego-alien that they have frequently not shared the material with anyone at all or with only a highly select group of trusted intimates. In the vast preponderance of cases patients are reluctant to allow themselves to be publicly identified as having had these experiences since the perceive that the abduction scenario is so highly anomalous that they expect to experience ridicule and repudiation if they become associated with it publicly. It therefore functions like a guilty secret in the way that rape has (and, unfortunately still does in some cases). After the material is produced and explored, these subjects often experience a marked degree of relief. This is true with reference both to previously identified symptomatic behaviors and other anxiety manifestations not noted on initial assessment. These other symptoms may remit after enhanced recall of the scenario and its details takes place. It is interesting to note that while the scenarios may contain a good deal of highly traumatic material specifically related to reproductive functioning, these episodes are nearly uniformly free of subjective erotic charge when either the manifest or latent contents are examined. 4. POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER (PTSD) IN THE ABSENCE OF EXTERNAL TRAUMA: PTSD was first described in the content of battle fatigue (16). Although it may present in a wide variety of clinical guises (17) PTSD is currently understood as a disorder which occurs in the context of intolerable externally induced trauma which floods the victim with anxiety and/or depression when his overwhelmed and paralyzed ego defenses prove inadequate to the task of organizing unbearably stressful events. In the service of the patient's urgent attempt to still the tides of disorganizing anxiety, fear or guilt<18> which accompany the emergence of cognitive, sensory or emotional recall of these traumatic events, the trauma itself may be either partly or completely unavailable to conscious recall. <19>...Both physical and psychological responses to the trauma are profound and pervasive. PTSD follows overwhelming real-life trauma and is not known to present as a sequel to internally generated fantasy states.<20> This fourth area of discrepancy between predicted and observed data is perhaps the most striking and challenging. Patients who produce alien abduction material in the absence of psycopathology severe enough to account for it often show the clinical picture of PTSD. This is remarkable when one considers that it is possible that no traumatic event occured except that rooted only in fantasy. These trauma are, in large measure, split off, denied and repressed as they are in other occurrences of PTSD. As discussed above, these scenarios frequently appear in individuals who are otherwise free of any indication of significant emotional and psychological instability or pre-existing severe psycopathology. On careful clinical assessment, these memories do not appear to fill the intrapsychic niches usually occupied by psychotic or psycho-neurotic formulations. The abduction scenarios do not encapsulate or ward off unacceptable impulses, they do not define split off affects, they are not used either to stabilize or to divert current or archaic patterns of behavior nor do they provide secondary gain or manipulative control for the individual. Instead, this material, experienced by the patient as unwelcome and totally ego-dystonic, seems quite consistently to be woven into the fabric of the patient's internal life only in terms of his reactive response to the stress inherent in these experiences and the contents of the repressed material related to the stressful memories. But the extent of this secondary response can be extensive. It should be noted that PTSD has not previously been thought to occur following trauma which has been generated solely by internally states. If abduction scenarios are in fact fantasies, then our understanding of PTSD need to be suitably broadened to account for this heretofore unexpected correlation. In addition, there are significant clinical implications to the finding of abduction scenario material in a patient who shows PTSD but is otherwise free of significant psychopathology. Since abduction scenario material presents several crucial areas of anomaly and discrepancy between what is known and that which is observed. It is very important for the therapist to refrain from the comfortable (for the therapist, at least) description of psychotic functioning to the patient who produces this material until such disturbance is, in fact, demonstrated and corroborated by the presence of other signs beside the UFO-related material. It is imperative for the therapist to adopt a non-judgemental stance. He can attend to the distress of the patient without attempting to confirm or deny possibilities which are outside the specific area of his expertise. The clinician should adopt as his therapeutic priority the alleviation of the PTSD symptomology through the use of appropriate and acceptable methods specific to the treatment of PTSD. In addition, the therapist must remember that while he may have strong convictions pro or con the abduction actually having occurred, it is not within either his capability or expertise to make such a judgement with total certainty. Furthermore, as the clinical psychologist who evaluated the nine abductees pointed out in her addendum, the sophistication of the psychotherapies has not advanced to the point at which this determination can be made on the basis of currently available information (21), although the treatment of post traumatic symptomology is currently understood. Hence, it is important for the therapist to retain the same non-judgemental and helpful stance necessary to the successful treatment of any other traumatic insult. When a therapist labels material as either unacceptable or insane, the burden of the patient is increased. If the therapist is reacting out of prejudices which reflect his own closely-held beliefs rather than his complete certainty, he unfairly increases the distress of the patient. SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS: Although it has long been the "common wisdom" of both the professional and lay communities that anyone claiming to be the victim of abduction by UFO occupants must be seriously disturbed, thoroughly deluded or a liar, careful examination of both the reports and their reports calls this assumption into question. Clinical and psychometric investigation of abductees reveals four areas of discrepancy between the expected data and the observable phenomena and suggests further investigation. These discrepant areas are: 1. ABSENCE OF PSYCHOPATHOLOGY An unexpected absence of severe psychopathology coupled with the high level of functioning found in many abductees is a perplexing and surprising finding. Psychometric evaluation of nine abductees revealed a notable heterogeneity of psychological and psychometric characteristics. The major area of homogeneity was in the absence of significant psychopathology. Rather than consulting a subset of the severely disturbed and psychotic population, there is clinical evidence that at least some abductees are high functioning, healthy individuals. This interesting discrepancy requires further investigation. 2. CONCORDANCE OF REPORTS Highly dissimilar people produce strikingly similar accounts of abductions by UFO occupants. The basic scenarios are highly concordant in detail and events. This is surprising in light of the widely divergent cultural, socio-economic, educational, occupational, intellectual and emotional status of abductees. Further, the scenarios themselves do not seem to show the same layering of affect and symbolic richness present in other fantasy endowed material. Instead, symbolic and conceptual complexity centers around the meaning of the experience for the individual, not around the shape, form, activity, intent, etc., of the aliens and their environment. This is in stark contrast to the expected complexity and diversity of thematic and symbolic elaboration found in our fantasy material. 3. RESISTANCE TO SUGGESTION UNDER HYPNOSIS Abduction scenario concordance is frequently attributed to the introduction of material into the suggestible mind of a hypnotized patient. Examination of abduction reports indicates that a significant percentage of these reports emerge into conscious awareness prior to the use of hypnosis or other techniques employed to stimulate recall. Furthermore abductees resist being lead or diverted during hypnosis and regularly insist on correcting the hypnotist so that their report remains accurate according to their own perceptions. 4. PTSD IN THE ABSENCE OF TRAUMA Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) has not been previously reported in patients experiencing overwhelming stress predicted only in internally generated states such as psychotic delusional systems or phobias. But patients reporting abduction frequently show classic signs and symptoms of PTSD. Like other kinds of PTSD it is subject to clinical intervention which frequently leads to substantial clinical improvement. But in order for this improvement to occur, the patient must be treated for the PTSD he exhibits rather than the psychotic state he is presumed to display by virtue of his abduction report. If the abduction scenarios represent only a fantasy state, then it is worth investigating why (and how) this particular highly concordant and deeply disturbing fantasy is involved in the pathogenesis of a condition otherwise seen only following externally induced trauma. Further, if this is found to be the case, the nature of PTSD itself should be re-examined in light of this finding. Alternatively, it may be that the trauma is, in fact, an external one which has taken place and the post traumatic state represents an expected response on the part of a traumatized patient. It is not within the area of expertise of the clinician to make an accurate determination about the objective validity of UFO abduction events. But it is certainly within his purview to assist the patient in regaining a sense of appropriate mastery, anxiety reduction and the alleviation of the clinical symptomalogy as efficiently and effectively as possible. This is best accomplished through an assessment the patient's *actual* state of psycho-dynamic organization, not his *presumed* state. In other words, in order to make the diagnosis of a psychotic or delusional state, findings other than the presence of a belief in UFO abduction must be present. In the absence of other indications of severe psychopathology, it is inappropriate to treat the patient as if he were afflicted with such psychopathology. It lies outside the realm of clinical expertise to determine with absolute certainty whether or not a UFO abduction has indeed taken place. Patients should not be viewed as demonstrating prima facie evidence of pervasive psychotic dysfunction because of the abduction material alone nor should they be hospitalized or treated with anti-psychotic medication based solely on the presence of UFO abduction scenarios. Instead, they should be assessed on the basis of their overall psychologic state. Unless otherwise indicated, treatment should be focused on the PTSD symptomatology and its repair. The areas of discrepancy which arise from the examination of UFO abductees between the expected clinical finding and the observed ones highlight interesting questions which require further investigation into the nature and impact of fantasy on psycho-dynamic states and symptom formation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (1)Westrum, R., Social Intelligence About Hidden Events, Knowledge:Creation, Diffusion, Utilization, Vol 3 No 3, March 1982, p.382 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (2)Hopkins, B. Missing Time: A Documented Study of UFO Abductions. New York, Richard Marek 1981. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (3)Slater, E., Ph.D. "Conclusions on Nine Psychologicals" in Final Report on the Psychological Testing of UFO Abductees" Mt Ranier, MD, 1985 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (4)Slater, E., Ph.D. Addendum to "Conclusions on Nine Psychological" in Final Report on the Psychological Testing of UFO "Abductees", op.cit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (5)Creighton, G. "The Amazing Case of Antonio Villas Boas" in Rogo, D>S>, ed., Alien Abductions. New York, New American Library, pp. 51-83, 1980. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (6)Hopkins,B. Missing Time: A Documented Study of UFO Abductions. op.cit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (7)Druffel,A. "Harrison Bailey and the 'Flying Saucer Disease'" in Rogo, S.D., ed., op.cit. pp. 122-137 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (8)Strieber, W. Communion. New York, Avon, 1987 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (9)Fowler, R. The Andreasson Affair. New York, Bantam Books, 1979 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (10)Fuller, J. The Interrupted Journey. New York, Dell, 1966 --------------------------------------- (11)Hopkins, B. Intruders: The Incredible Visitation at Copley Woods. New York, Random House, 1987 -------------------------------------- (12)Hopkins, B. Personal communications with the author about the more than 200 abductees whom Mr. Hopkins has investigated both with and without the use of hypnosis. --------------------------------------- (13)Westrum, R. personal communication with the author. --------------------------------------- (14)Hopkins, B. personal communication with the author. --------------------------------------- (15)Hopkins, B. "The Investigation of UFO Reports" in The Spectrum of UFO Research. Proceedings of the Second CUFOS Conference (September 25-27, 1981), Hynek, M. ed., pp 171-2, Chicago, J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, 1988. --------------------------------------- (16)Kardiner, A., The Traumatic Neuroses of War. New York, P. Hoeber, 1941 --------------------------------------- (17)van Der Kolk, B.A., Psychological Trauma. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Press, 1987 --------------------------------------- (18)Horowitz,M.J., Stress Response Syndromes. New York, Jason Aronson,1976 --------------------------------------- (19)van Der Kolk, op.cit. --------------------------------------- (20)American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 3rd ed. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 1980 --------------------------------------- (21)Slater, op.cit. --------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!scsing.switch.ch!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Life on Saturn Message-ID: <1993Mar12.153831.27668@ntb.ch> Keywords: spirit Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (Mr. Usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1ngg4hINNrpg@titan.ucs.umass.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 15:38:31 GMT Lines: 45 Some people believe that intelligent entities do not need physical bodies to exist. Of course, we're entering into a different area of discussion here, because there are many people who cannot believe in anything other than "solid" reality. Some people believe that "ghosts" are possible, a belief which crosses the threshold into the "spiritual" universe. Other people regard anything "supernatural" to be explainable in unusual but natural (and therefore acceptable) terms. (Some of this group do however also accept things like telepathy as possible.) Obviously, life on some of the planets is not possible in the form that we know or imagine (from a scientific point of view). However, to people who can accept a "spirit " form of life, life is possible anywhere. Presumably, if you can believe in God, you can imagine that He can visit the sun. So it is not inconceivable that some of His creations may also be able to visit it. I don't know how many of you can imagine intelligence without (what we would call) a physical body, but I can. I would love to discuss this on the net, as I think it is pertinent to this newsgroup, since there are a lot of people (one of whom I have met personally) who claim to have been contacted by ETs in the same way in which "dead people" talk to their loved ones, that is through what we might call a medium, or mediumistic powers. The lady I talked to was quite surprised with her message, as she was used to talking only to spirits, not living physical entities. This one (and only) time, she had a message from an ET, who said he was here in his ship with a lot of other "people", and was just looking for a way to contact an earthling. (A fascinating starter for people interested in this kind of thing is "Starseed Transmission" by Ken Carey or "Karey".) I can understand anyone who now puts me in the John_-_W category, by the way, as I used to think the same about "this kind of person"! I don't mind flames at all, but please try them with humour, or at least without giving the impression that you have forgotten that you are a mature adult. Thanks. Although I would call myself "spiritual", I also believe that ET visitations are possible, and indeed probable. (I've read most of the required books.) But I do also see a possible connection to another dimension. Well, it's Friday afternoon here, which explains why I had time to write so much when I only intended the first two paragraphs. Have a good weekend. Blessings, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch (Switzerland) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14389 alt.alien.visitors:14319 sci.skeptic:40606 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Answers Message-ID: <1993Mar12.164544.12758@netcom.com> Date: 12 Mar 93 16:45:44 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77076@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 21 In article kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >In article <77076@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> Dear Thinkers: All I have to say is, "Never fear Kibo is here." > >Only a fool is never afraid of Kibo! I was afraid you'd say that. -- K. > BTW, on the subject of bandwidth. Just how wide -is- the band? I need to know in eV for my band diagram. I would post it, but it might be banned, or become a top 40 hit by Band on the Run, so I may not. What -is- the internet band-gap anyway? Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14390 alt.alien.visitors:14320 sci.skeptic:40607 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Subject: Re: Statement. Message-ID: <1993Mar12.094930@IASTATE.EDU> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Organization: Iowa State University References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77248@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 15:49:30 GMT Lines: 10 In article <77248@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Folks: It looks like a gremlin is back in my computer. I think he was > kicked out, so things should look better now. > John Winston. Goddamn gremlins are dishonest. They don't _stay_ bribed. Dan Danwell@IASTATE.EDU Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!liv!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: PLEASE POST THE FAQ Message-ID: Date: 12 Mar 93 13:06:14 GMT References: <1niipaINN855@ub.d.umn.edu> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: hod.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Robert Fentiman (rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu) wrote: > In article tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel) writes: > :Please, please, PLEASE will someone post the FAQ here? To my knowledge > :it hasn't been posted in many moons! I have asked nicely at least > :3 times, WAKE UP! Thanks! > : > : This is from > : tdaniels@bluemoon.use.com > :whose views and opinions do not reflect those of the system he uses! > What FAQ? > -- > _______________________________________________________________________ > / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / > / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / > /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ --The last time the FAQ was posted here was three months ago, so I think it's about time it was posted again, don't you?! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!liv!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: Date: 12 Mar 93 13:14:52 GMT References: <1993Mar10.170151.2800@netcom.com> Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: hod.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Rich Payne (payner@netcom.com) wrote: > In article <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: > > > > I have a question... How can flesh withstand G-forces > >accumulated in the accelleration to speed of light? > Well, ya can't get to the speed of light without infinite energy. ^^ > But you can get damn close by accelerating at 1G for a long time. You mean WE can't get to the speed of light, it doesn't mean that UFOs can't do it. Think of it this way: Our (Earths) space programme hasn't gone outside of the solar system yet, yet we have already discovered that there is no life on any other planet inside the system. The ETs driving the UFOs therefore MUST have left THEIR system thus they must be advanced in their own space program and therefore in their scientific knowledge, so we can assume that some alien civilisations have found out a way to reach the speed of light without using infinite energy resources. I hope I've made that clear, my English isn't too good. > Rich > payner@netcom.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!liv!lucs!u2nmh From: u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: stuff-_-n_-_junk Message-ID: Date: 12 Mar 93 13:24:58 GMT References: Sender: news@compsci.liverpool.ac.uk (News Eater) Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: hod.csc.liv.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Bill Peterson (billp@mozart.amd.com) wrote: > The aliens have discovered the next dimension, astral > dimension. And have developed technology for manipulating it. > -- > Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! > Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X --I think I'd better choose my words carefully here. We all know UFOs and aliens exist, but how did you know about extra dimensions? Can you prove that extra dimensions exist? Can you prove that you can travel back and forth from the astral plane? I think not. > When they come, we all get to go to heaven. Religion and science don't mix. You cannot prove the existence of heaven (or indeed hell) scientifically at all. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: no evidence Message-ID: <1993Mar12.172554.18490@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 17:25:54 GMT Lines: 32 In article billp@mozart.amd.com (Bill Peterson) writes: > There is not one shred of evidence that I can see >that any of you exist. ---?? Any of "you" exist? Hey, I am just text on your screen. > You are just phantoms on my screen. Phantoms? Even text can see that you must be hallucinating. >Expecially Peter. Prove to me that you exist. (No pictures, >photos, witnesses, etc. I won't even belive you! You could >be lying. No documents, no audio, video, or anything else >wil;l be acceptable. Only your actual flesh and blood which >of course could be faked.) Actually, the big problem is that -you- do not exist. How can anything be proved to a poster who does not exist? And how does something "faked" not exist? >-- > Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat! > Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X Rich payner@netcom.com (in virtual reality) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14394 alt.alien.visitors:14325 sci.skeptic:40621 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Answer Message-ID: <77320@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 06:25:17 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 5 Dear Movie Goers: It's good to see that Mr. Robert Sheaffer has put down some information about the movie Fire In The Sky which will start showing today, March 12, 1993. Let the games begin. Let's hope that the truth, whatever it may be, about this movie will come out. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14395 alt.alien.visitors:14326 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Correction On Energy. Message-ID: <77324@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 06:41:37 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear Energy Lovers: In a previous posting I mentioned a phone number (1-800-289-3235 Ext. 71). A reader of the Net informs me that the number is no longer working. He is going to recearch this and I'll try to post the correct number if it can be found. Stay tuned for further developments. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14396 alt.alien.visitors:14327 alt.religion.kibology:7300 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Answer Message-ID: <77325@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 06:55:44 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 7 Dear People One And All: There is a bad thing that has just been said about me, and I won't stand for it. The statement is that I have become organized. This must stop. What are you people trying to do, give me a good name. I don't attend any monthly meetings either. I don't wear any badges. Badges, I don't got to show you no stinkin badges. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Clearance?! Message-ID: <1993Mar12.183742.20410@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 18:37:42 GMT Lines: 16 ^In article <1993Mar9.201609.28135@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: ^> Rich- ^> The government craft(s) in question are being stored ^>in a mine close to the Nevada Test Site.... Just thought you should ^>know.... ^> ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE ^ ^ Um... Heidi dear... how do you know that these aircraft are in a ^hidden mine? do you have clearance that we should know about?^ ^Bill I have a Very reliable source. ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Clearance?! Message-ID: <1993Mar12.192506.28515@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 35 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1993Mar12.183742.20410@unlv.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 19:25:06 GMT In article <1993Mar12.183742.20410@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: |> |>^In article <1993Mar9.201609.28135@unlv.edu>, blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: |>^> Rich- |>^> The government craft(s) in question are being stored |>^>in a mine close to the Nevada Test Site.... Just thought you should |>^>know.... |>^> ^^^^^^^^BLONDIE |>^ |>^ Um... Heidi dear... how do you know that these aircraft are in a |>^hidden mine? do you have clearance that we should know about?^ |> |>^Bill |> |> I have a Very reliable source. |> |> ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Yah! Right! John Winston and the "Weekly World New" no doubt. Steve Food_for_the_Greys/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatekeeper.us.oracle.com!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!sinc.oscs.montana.edu!imsgjraq From: imsgjraq@sinc.oscs.montana.edu (Joseph Raquepas) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <1993Mar12.194947.28743@coe.montana.edu> Keywords: n Sender: usenet@coe.montana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Montana State University, Bozeman MT References: <1993Mar8.144644.11544@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 19:49:47 GMT Lines: 11 > >Ever accidently walk into a "red zone" (nuclear weapons storage area) on >a SAC base? Even with an Air Force uniform on, the best thing you can do >is immediately lie down on the ground and freeze before the APs wax your >tail. No but one time when I was in the Air Force I accidently walked onto the flight line at an air base and found myself face down on the pavement with an M-16 rammed up my ass. And this was only a lousy F-111 base. Joe R. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!peewee.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@peewee.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Fool? Message-ID: <1993Mar12.191413.21615@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 19:14:13 GMT Lines: 9 ^In article <77076@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: ^> Dear Thinkers: All I have to say is, "Never fear Kibo is here." ^Only a fool is never afraid of Kibo! -- K. Well, I guess I'm a fool... Don't say it! ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!elroy.uh.edu!st1r8 From: st1r8@elroy.uh.edu (Guillot, Burt J.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: How do we know who tells the truth here??? Date: 12 Mar 1993 14:24 CST Organization: University of Houston Lines: 40 Distribution: world Message-ID: <12MAR199314241094@elroy.uh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 I've been trying to pay attention to what's going on here, but it is too hard to tell the difference between people posting serious articles and not-so-serious people. For example, there was a recent article posted about astronauts who see UFOs... It started off sounding serious, but they we jumped into "and then the aliens told Niel Armstrong never to come to the moon again because they have so many people living there and so many moon bases watching us", etc., etc., it starts too sound like hog-wash. Is there a list of people in this conference known to be usually reliable and those posting non-sense. The sci.physics group recently played around with the idea of a "crackpot index". Is there any kind of "reliability index" around here? I'd like to know, for real, whether these ET exist and fly through space and visit Earth every now and then---or even if ET exist at all and don't visit Earth. I believe it is possible ET life exists somewhere and that it is somewhat feasible they might visit the Earth, but I've never seen anything personally to prove they exist. I've never seen any flying saucers. I haven't seen any ET. I have dreams about them all the time, but dreams aren't real. I watch TV about them all the time, but TV programs aren't real either. I've heard of two reliable people that have seen UFOs. I think Jimmy Carter saw one (I would think a President to be somewhat reliable). Also, my 8th Grade English teacher (and I assume her daughters when they were very young, maybe too young to remember) saw "something" in her back ground when she lived in Plano, Texas. She said bright lights were in the sky when she looked out here back door one day like 20 years ago. She couldn't identify it. I considered that English teacher to be one of the most respectable teachers I've ever had, and would not think she's making it up. She didn't tell the class about it, just me, because we were talking about something one day and the topic was brought up. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, B.J. Guillot ... Houston, Texas USA I don't believe in coffee Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: The Taos Hum Message-ID: <1993Mar12.201752.12949@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar4.193140.3787@cs.wisc.edu> <1993Mar6.194358.8091@netcom.com> <1993Mar8.185804.7734@cs.wisc.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 20:17:52 GMT Lines: 34 In article <1993Mar8.185804.7734@cs.wisc.edu> cherkaue@mozzarella.cs.wisc.edu (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes: >[Re. my suggestion of using a moving observer to obtain Doppler info for >locating the Taos hum.] > >In article <1993Mar6.194358.8091@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: >>I guess you could get an appreciable doppler shift by putting the detector >>in a car. But you will still get a raw number, not a direction. And the >>number will probably correspond to the speed of the car, which would not be >>especially usefull for locating a source. > >But you know the speed and direction of the car's motion. Thus, by taking >readings while driving in at least two (noncolinear) directions starting from a >given point, you'll get a set of closing-velocity vectors which you can use to >solve for the source's direction from that point. Repeat this process from >another starting point and now you have a second line to draw on your map. >Their intersection is the source's location. This would work in relatively flat terrain. But in rolling hilly areas I suspect that reflections and echos would dominate, and that this would not work. Does anybody know about the terrain in the area where the sounds are a problem? >-- >Kevin Cherkauer >cherkaue@cs.wisc.edu > >Disclaimer: The above opinions are solely the responsibility of my owners. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!news From: atemps@zax.acs.calpoly.edu (A Richard Temps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: My little contribution to this place... a little bit more organized this time Message-ID: <1993Mar12.203419.100857@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 12 Mar 93 20:34:19 GMT Sender: news@zeus.calpoly.edu Distribution: na Organization: Academic Computing Services, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Lines: 143 Diamagnetism: A New Field Just about everyone is familiar with normal Diamagnetism. Every atom in the universe has a diamagnetic field surrounding it; depending on the electron spin, this field could be moving upwards or downwards. (+ or -) If you have a negative charge (electron) and a positive charge (nucleus), the negative particle will be attracted towards and orbit the more positive one. Actually, it doesn't 'orbit', per se - in a simple hydrogen atom, the electron is found in a bilobed 'field' around the nucleus, resembling a figure eight if looked at from the side. Physicists around the world have explained the behaviour of the electron around a nucleus very well for themselves, and alternative explanations are looked upon a little like a sudden outburst from a Flat Earther. Well, I am going to pose such an alternative explanation. I am sure scientists can come up with a lot of experimental evidence to dispute my theory, but _I'm_ pretty sure I am right, and I leave it up to you to decide. Also, I should give credit where it is due - the original postulation for a new Diamagnetic force came from an old book called 'UFOs and Diamagnetism', by E. Burt. If you can scrounge up a copy at your university library, it's an interesting read. My theory is based on his, but brought up to the times a bit more (the book was copywrite 1970). Also, I will tell how some of my researches correlate to my theory. OK, imagine this. You have not one force acting on an electron from the proton in a nucleus, but two. One is a strong attractive force. Opposite charges attract. But, my theory states that there is a repulsive force as well. A much weaker force that grows intensely when the electron gets very close to the proton. I imagine that this weaker force's exact strength could be calculated if the right computer simulation were fed the right experimental data, and who knows, perhaps I may aspire to that one day. But for now, just imagine that there is a repulsive, weaker force acting on the electron. Now, of course we know that the rapid movement of electrical charges creates a diamagnetic field. All sorts of useful electronic principals are based on this. But, I propose a different kind of field - a _reverse_ diamagnetic field. Such a field would allow all sorts of things to become possible, as I shall explain later. This field would be generated not by large movements of negatively charged particles, but by positivtely charged ones. It is relatively easy for us to generate a diamagnetic field; not so for this other field. However, I believe that a strong enough field under the right conditions (more later) would be able to move large objects rather quickly. Let us do a bit of imagining here, and create our own spacecraft, to better illustrate this. Let's take a basic model, no frills saucer body. We take the rim of this sucker and install some electrical equipment, maybe a Van Der Vaals machine. We make sure that a very big positive charge gets generated on the rim of the craft, and insulate it to make sure it doesn't discharge anywhere else. OK, now we install some motors and do some cutting, and we make the rim able to spin around seperate from the craft. Remember, we gotta make this a _moving_ charge. If that isn't enough, then maybe we scrap the spinning rim idea and go with a circular plasma tube, with some accelerator/cyclotron mechanism to make it go very fast around inside the tube. Voila, fast moving positive charge. Now, we do something else: on the top half of the hull of our Instant ready-to-buzz-Clintons-lawn-party UFO, we place a large negative charge. Now, let me explain what happens when we throw the ON switch. The top of the hull will get a large negative charge (insulated from the rest of the hull and the inside of course). The positive charge will start moving quickly, and our reverse-Diamagnetic field will build up. Now, at this point, a new force that we have nevr encountered before will develop. Now, remember that repulsive force I mentioned? The one that was so weak, our scientific community has yet to acknowledge it (if it exists, of course) ? This field is that repulsive force magnified a millionfold. Now, something funny's going to happen here: The direction of our spin dictates the direction of the force (polar north or south), and this repels electrons, right? The whole ship is regular matter, and all matter has electrons. So, the energy we put into this strong positive, moving charge will go towards the strength of this field, and the field will instantly start reacting on the ship, by 'pushing' all the electrons of the ship upwards. Now, if we push the electron clouds, they will pull the nucleus along with it. Voila! Propulsion. And, non-Newtonian propulsion at that. Consider some effects of this field. It's not just pushing the ship, but all of its contents as well. This means, if we suddenly tilted out craft strongly in one direction, and we blazed in another direction and full speed, our bodies would not be ground into the upholstery. Indeed, during even huge shifts in direction at supersonic speeds, we could be pouring ourselves a cold glass of Coke, and not spill a drop. The field acts on everything at once, so every atom is being acted on at once and equally. Now, I mentioned that large positive charge on the top of the hull - let me rephrase that to say that the both sides of the hull would be negatively charged (it wouldn't make sense, as it's the direction of the field that determines direction, and not which side is negatively charged). If this field indeed acts upon negative charges, then one might think it would act on the hull more than on what's inside, thus creating a difference in the strength of the interaction. This may be the case; I'm not sure. It may be that you would create a highly negative charge inside the craft as well; this would not be harmful to the occupants if done properly. Alright, now that's my theory. Now, let me tell you how I dredged all this up. First of all, there's been a number of anomalies concerning mass and experiments involving charge. I can not tell you any examples for right now, although I remember reading about a Japanese experiment where researchers noted a drop in mass of an object in some experiment involving charges. Expanding from that, we take the large base of UFO sightings. I will only deal with the 'flying saucer' type, as they are probably the easiest for our science to deal with. They have often been found spinning, and they move in very abrupt motions at very high speeds. If you think about it, no structure known to man can withstand the forces involved in a ninety degree change in direction at supersonic speeds, but I am sure that is exactly what these craft can do. OK, let us put aside the idea that maybe they got plenty alloys known to them that could withstand the stress; what about the inhabitants? I think there's too many reports of these craft being manned to say that they are all robot observers. If they are definitely manned, than how could their bodies possibly withstand the force of sudden shifts? Even today, a limiting factor in the effectiveness of jet fighter air combat is not the titanium-hulled jet, but the stresses to which it subjects the pilot. Often they are more than the pilot can take, and the pilot goes unconscious. Obviously, the aliens have gotten around this problem very handily, and my theory would go a long way towards explaining just how it could be done. Now, let's examine the composition of the hull. After reading Jacques Vallee's latest, 'UFOs in the Soviet Union: A Cosmic Samizdat' (I hope I got the name right), he describes of soviet researchers recovering hull fragments of UFOs. He gave very sketchy details, but it seemed to be a Cesium-Lanthanum-Neodymium alloy, with the very special property of having a magnetic field fourteen times stronger on one side than the other. Whoa, now, magnetic fields... now, how can they be significant that they'd want to make their hulls have 'em? I have two theories on this... A. It dampens the reverse-field effect outside the hull, so as to not to bring up chunks of earth when the thing takes off, or B. It makes things safer/more comfortable somehow for the inhabitants, by keeping the diamagnetic fireworks externalized somehow. I'm sure an alien would know. You might note that these craft are rather silent, for all their rapid maneuvers and such. I can attribute this to the possibility that if the effects of the diamagnetic field are limited to the hull, perhaps a limited repulsive field would act out against everything outside the hull to a limited range. I am sketchy on my information here, but I would think that it would create a vacuum outside the craft. Plus, when the craft speeds throughthe air, this field would ionize air particles in front of it, creating a 'halo' effect. Note that a vacuum surrounding a ship would make it totally silent as it zips around places. In summation, I'd say that this field would be a very probability when talking about the ways and means these craft fly. I am a heavy believer that such a craft could be within our own technology ... heck, almost something you could build in your backyard with the right parts. If it could be constructed, and marketed, the world would see some major changes. The end result, of course, is that you could take a craft from Ney York to Tokyo in thirty minutes, and the jet lag would be really atrocious. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: <1993Mar12.204849.16305@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar10.170151.2800@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 20:48:49 GMT Lines: 60 In article u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk (N.M. Humphries) writes: >Rich Payne (payner@netcom.com) wrote: >> In article <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >> > >> > I have a question... How can flesh withstand G-forces >> >accumulated in the accelleration to speed of light? > >> Well, ya can't get to the speed of light without infinite energy. > ^^ This was deliberate, thank you. >> But you can get damn close by accelerating at 1G for a long time. > >You mean WE can't get to the speed of light, it doesn't mean that UFOs can't do >it. You forget the part about infinite energy. > Think of it this way: Our (Earths) space programme hasn't gone outside of >the solar system yet, yet we have already discovered that there is no life on >any other planet inside the system. Wherever did you get this? We have very little information about the rest of the planets. With the crude observations we have, we have detected no life, but noone has proved that there is no other life in the solar system. Note, this is the difference between -lack- of knowledge, and evidence to the contrary. They are not equivalant. I doubt that there is other life in the solar system, but it is not a proven fact. > The ETs driving the UFOs therefore MUST have >left THEIR system thus they must be advanced in their own space program and >therefore in their scientific knowledge, so we can assume that some alien >civilisations have found out a way to reach the speed of light without using >infinite energy resources. Pure speculation. What is the value of an assumption? Also, can you show me the ET's that you are referring to? >I hope I've made that clear, my English isn't too good. Your english is fine, but is not English spoken in the UK? >> Rich > >> payner@netcom.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Cursor, aka Nick Humphries, u2nmh@csc.liv.ac.uk, at your service. > "People have started taking shotguns to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole > new meaning to the phrase 'You ain't from 'round here, are ya?'"-Bill Hicks > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!bones!rcox From: rcox@bones (Richard Cox) Subject: Re: How do we know who tells the truth here??? Message-ID: Sender: news@csn.org (news) Nntp-Posting-Host: cos.cta.com Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <12MAR199314241094@elroy.uh.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 21:36:05 GMT Lines: 5 You can safely assume that every message you read in this forum (including this one!) is totally bogus...! Richard Cox Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!bones!rcox From: rcox@bones (Richard Cox) Subject: Re: KRLL FILES : GROUP RESPONSE REQUESTED... Message-ID: Sender: news@csn.org (news) Nntp-Posting-Host: cos.cta.com Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <1993Mar11.201319.15965@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 21:42:43 GMT Lines: 15 BC> ... the goal of SDI (Star Wars) is actually to follow through BC> with an attack, proposed by the Greys, on the Nordics when BC> they arrive en masse between now [1988] and 1992. This time BC> schedule seems to match with the post-hypnotic programming of BC> many abductees for actions between the next two to five BC> years. Now that it's 1993, I guess we don't have to worry about this imminent invasion any more? It seems these things always fall apart when the "prophets of doom" begin prophesying specific dates. Richard Cox Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Re: Life on Saturn Message-ID: <1993Mar12.211519.25951@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 21:15:19 GMT Lines: 24 Paul, There is an old law of energy, "One cannot make or destroy energy, merely change it's form." Let's not get into entropy for now.... At any rate, we have been able to create a fully functional cell except for one thing... I'ts not alive...Only when they graft it onto a living cell does it live. Now what is that elusive force, that essence we call life? Do we take it with us when we "move out of our body"? Do we take it to heaven? That would go against the energy law stated above since there is a finite amount of life-force and if a dead soul goes somewhere else.. that is where the life is going... It is more probable that life-force is recycled in our ecosystem. This is not true reincarnation. Take a computer screen with a cursor... Let's say that cursor is life-force. Typing in a program uses that life-force. When you hit the delete(death), the cursor still exists to use for another program. The original program is dumped and gone forever unless a copy is made (offspring). Now the question is how conciousness can stay with the life-force when death takes the body-host. Is there another medium for thought other than physical matter? Are aliens in etheral gases or luminous energy possible. Maybe.... It would be interesting to contemplate. N'est pas? ^^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!nevada.edu!jimi!little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu!blondie From: blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu Subject: Re: Clearance?! Message-ID: <1993Mar12.212047.26216@unlv.edu> Sender: news@unlv.edu (News User) Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Robotics Engineering Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 21:20:47 GMT Lines: 6 No, it is not second-hand, newpaper information...Don't you get it? I'm not reveiling my sources.. We already have enough goons around here scarfing up young inventors' designs and giving them A1 clearance just to keep their mouth's shut! ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon.rose.hp.com!hpchase.rose.hp.com!duane From: duane@mothra.rose.hp.com (Duane) Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Sender: news@hpchase.rose.hp.com (NetNews) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 22:17:56 GMT References: <1993Mar10.124451.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Roseville Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.4] Lines: 45 matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu wrote: : In article <15840005@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>, brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes: : > I have spent a fair amount of time and energy researching this damn thing : > (the 500000 year old geode with the "spark plug" inside), and I have : > the following to offer to the discussion: : > : part of post deleted... : > : > According to "Secrets...", the artifact was taken to the "Charles Ford : ^^^^^^^^^^^^ : > Society" : ^^^^^^^ : This would make a lot more sense if it is read as the "Charles FORT society" : as Charles Fort specialized in reporting high-strangeness material. Try : that spelling instead. : >....organization that "specializes in investigating unusual : > things." I checked the master index of societies and organizations : > in the United States and could find no reference to such an organization. : > The library did not have one dating to the early 70's that might have : > contained the information on such a society. I checked with information : > in several area codes in California near where the artifact was discovered, : > and could only find a "Charles Ford Company", which I called - it's a : > department store. : > : rest of post deleted... : ****************************************************** : * Kellie M-S // matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu * : * "Humor, a difficult concept" Saavik, STII: TWOK * : * Member PSSS, Assoc. Member SEFEB & MDEAS * : * (if you have to ask, you don't want to know!) * : ****************************************************** Greetings, OK where is the "Charler Fort Society" located ... what state is it in? I checked with the Library on Societies and there is no "Charles Fort Society" ... did they go through a name change? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news.crd.ge.com!e7sa!ivory From: ivory@e7sa.crd.ge.com (John Ivory) Subject: Re: How do we know who tells the truth here??? Message-ID: Sender: ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.219.40.1 Organization: Tower Concepts References: <12MAR199314241094@elroy.uh.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 22:14:29 GMT Lines: 13 I never had a need for 'KILL' files until living through the idiots and childish teasing that goes on in this group. I found that adding the lines at the bottom of this message to my 'KILL' file made the signal to noise ratio improve a dozen fold. Is there something out there? I don't know. But I'm willing to give the possibility some serious discussion and investigation. This group has some mature interactions and exchanges on occasion, but I'd strongly suggest that you completely ignore the two dips below, as well as anybody who'd give either of them the time of day. /Winston/a:j /blondie/a:j Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: How do we know who tells the truth here??? Message-ID: <1993Mar12.222714.27910@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <12MAR199314241094@elroy.uh.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 22:27:14 GMT Lines: 68 In article <12MAR199314241094@elroy.uh.edu> st1r8@elroy.uh.edu (Guillot, Burt J.) writes: >I've been trying to pay attention to what's going on here, but it is >too hard to tell the difference between people posting serious >articles and not-so-serious people. > >For example, there was a recent article posted about astronauts who >see UFOs... It started off sounding serious, but they we jumped into >"and then the aliens told Niel Armstrong never to come to the moon >again because they have so many people living there and so many >moon bases watching us", etc., etc., it starts too sound like >hog-wash. > >Is there a list of people in this conference known to be usually >reliable and those posting non-sense. The sci.physics group >recently played around with the idea of a "crackpot index". Is >there any kind of "reliability index" around here? > >I'd like to know, for real, whether these ET exist and fly through >space and visit Earth every now and then---or even if ET exist at >all and don't visit Earth. I believe it is possible ET life exists >somewhere and that it is somewhat feasible they might visit the >Earth, but I've never seen anything personally to prove they exist. >I've never seen any flying saucers. I haven't seen any ET. I >have dreams about them all the time, but dreams aren't real. I watch >TV about them all the time, > but TV programs aren't real either. Well, they -are- real. But they are not what they seem to be. >I've heard of two reliable people that have seen UFOs. I think Jimmy >Carter saw one (I would think a President to be somewhat reliable). Then you beleive President Clintons campaign promises? :^} >Also, my 8th Grade English teacher (and I assume her daughters when >they were very young, maybe too young to remember) saw "something" >in her back ground when she lived in Plano, Texas. She said bright >lights were in the sky when she looked out here back door one day >like 20 years ago. She couldn't identify it. I considered that >English teacher to be one of the most respectable teachers I've ever >had, and would not think she's making it up. She didn't tell the >class about it, just me, because we were talking about something one >day and the topic was brought up. Now you seem to be equating UFO with ET spacecraft. Do you really want to do that? Carl Sagan raised an interesting point in his article (which I have not yet read), and that is that -something- is obviously happening, but what if it is not exactly what it seems to be. Personally I do not have an answer. But after years of following the UFO literature, I gave up. It seems to have been a good decision looking back. There is nothing there. Despite a huge mountain of speculation, there is no base for it. What we seem to have left is a conspiracy theory, and -everything- proves a conspiracy theory. The recent tape by Guardian was complete with a conspiracy packet. Till then, I enjoy looking at the UFO photos, and reading the stories. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Regards, >B.J. Guillot ... Houston, Texas USA I don't believe in coffee Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: How do we know who tells the truth here??? Message-ID: <1993Mar13.020255.13162@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <12MAR199314241094@elroy.uh.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 02:02:55 GMT Lines: 20 In article ivory@e7sa.crd.ge.com (John Ivory) writes: >I never had a need for 'KILL' files until living through the idiots and >childish teasing that goes on in this group. I found that adding the lines >at the bottom of this message to my 'KILL' file made the signal to noise >ratio improve a dozen fold. > >Is there something out there? I don't know. But I'm willing to give the >possibility some serious discussion and investigation. This group has some >mature interactions and exchanges on occasion, but I'd strongly suggest that >you completely ignore the two dips below, as well as anybody who'd give >either of them the time of day. > >/Winston/a:j >/blondie/a:j Yeah, like your message is real valuable to our edification here. Post where somebody cares. Jeff- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14397 alt.alien.visitors:14344 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!WBA2320 From: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: UFOs on Madison Ave. Message-ID: <1993Mar12.180059.1746@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxa.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <76897@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar10.193049.25893@ultb.isc.rit.edu>,<1993Mar12.033857.9562@wam.umd.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 18:00:59 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1993Mar12.033857.9562@wam.umd.edu>, bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar) writes: > >UFO's are seen at Kentucky Fried chicken all the time! >Unidentified Frying Object >Jaguar >is it chicken or snapping turtle? Has anyone seen the new commercial for [i believe it is] Wendy's Restaurants?!?! UFO shaped rubber and inflatable balls in their kids meals. DOH! Bill Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14398 alt.alien.visitors:14345 sci.skeptic:40640 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Answer Message-ID: <1993Mar13.021542.13734@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <77320@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 02:15:42 GMT Lines: 16 In article <77320@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Movie Goers: It's good to see that Mr. Robert Sheaffer has put >down some information about the movie Fire In The Sky which will >start showing today, March 12, 1993. Let the games begin. Let's >hope that the truth, whatever it may be, about this movie will come out. >John Winston. They sure are pushing this movie! I have seen so many FITSky previews, I feel like I have already seen the movie. I think that fact that they are pushing it as a true story, and there is obviously tens of millions involved in it's production is good evidence that they have done enough research they are not worried about someone coming out and disproving TW's claims about his experience... Jeff- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14399 alt.alien.visitors:14346 sci.skeptic:40642 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Movie Message-ID: <77370@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 19:54:15 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 5 Dear Movie Goers. Right now it is march 12, 1993 at 7:52 PM. At 5:15 PM today I saw the show Fire In The Sky and it was really great. I recommend it to everyone. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14400 alt.alien.visitors:14347 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Correction. Message-ID: <77371@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 19:59:36 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear People: I checked the number for the information about the Declaration of Energy Independence and the number has been changed to 1-800-627-3929. They call themselves Concerned People about Energy in America or something like that. I hope that number works. I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!curt From: curt@cwis.unomaha.edu (Curt A. Humphrey) Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Message-ID: <1993Mar13.034909.24193@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1993Mar12.010535.25571@unlv.edu> Hmm how do you dissect a LIVE 1500 lb Bull with GREAT CARE! Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 03:49:09 GMT Lines: 0 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!curt From: curt@cwis.unomaha.edu (Curt A. Humphrey) Subject: Re: My little contribution to this place... a little bit more organized this time Message-ID: <1993Mar13.042400.24770@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1993Mar12.203419.100857@zeus.calpoly.edu> I am very interested in Your Ideas. I have also given this some thought Distribution: na Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 04:24:00 GMT Lines: 3 . (Curt@Unomaha.edu) Xref: icaen sci.energy:14128 alt.alien.visitors:14350 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:3129 Newsgroups: sci.energy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Sweet 500 Watts free energy machine on tape? Organization: Public-Access-Unix-System Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 22:30:41 GMT Message-ID: Keywords: free energy Lines: 23 Hi, I just got the info, that there is a videotape available, which shows the Bearden/Sweet free energy device producing 500 Watts of power to a load without any moving parts.. Is this true ? Where can I buy this tape ? Has anybody seen yet this device working ? Ray Berry, please contact me again, I lost your email adress ! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 375 55 68 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!pachecod From: pachecod@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dan Pacheco) Subject: UFOs negative? Message-ID: <1993Mar13.092436.13062@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 09:24:36 GMT Lines: 18 Is it me or are the majority of these UFO / "alien" experiences negative in nature? Fear of being controlled by an unknown force seems to be the dominant characteristic, followed by a fear of encountering an unknown intelligence. Cults have been springing up since the sixties which are preaching a pseudo-religious event similar to the apocalypse and a UFO "landing" which, for all intents and purposes, is uncannily similar to predictions of a second coming of Christ or some other prophet. Perhaps this is the reason why book stores continue to group UFO book under the "metaphysical" section along with Shirley McClain's books about levitation and personal deism. Why do they take on such a "cult," or "occult?" And if these beings are really just studying us, why are they putting such a strong effort into what seems to be an effort to scare us and shake us up? Confused, -Dan Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14401 alt.alien.visitors:14352 sci.skeptic:40646 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!pachecod From: pachecod@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dan Pacheco) Subject: Re: Fire In The Sky. Message-ID: <1993Mar13.092834.13302@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <76931@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 09:28:34 GMT Lines: 11 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: I see in the Net and on TV that the movie Fire In The >Sky will be showing beginning on March 12 in the US. The is a true >story of Travis Walton being taken up in a UFO and being brought >back. This is required viewing and their will be a test. >John Winston Yes, but can we trust an Oliver Stone film for its accuracy? The true question... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Subject: Re: no evidence Message-ID: Organization: Boeing References: <1993Mar12.134324.15478@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 20:19:48 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1993Mar12.134324.15478@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: >You and everybody (myself included) are all fake. Gary STollman is the only Of course, Carl Sagan is real, but the aliens put him here to confuse us. Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com | Seattle, WA | It wastes your time | and annoys the droid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![jonathan.forbes@canrem.com] From: "jonathan forbes" Subject: my little contributio Message-ID: <1993Mar13.4962.14135@dosgate> Reply-To: "jonathan forbes" Organization: Canada Remote Systems Distribution: alt Date: 13 Mar 93 08:28:58 EST Lines: 9 -> but all of its contents as well. This means, if we suddenly tilted -> out craft strongly in one direction, and we blazed in another -> direction and full speed, our bodies would not be ground into the -> upholstery. Indeed, Aren't you forgetting about inertia? -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario 416-629-7000/629-7044 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![jonathan.forbes@canrem.com] From: "jonathan forbes" Subject: ufo: some points to c Message-ID: <1993Mar13.4962.14136@dosgate> Reply-To: "jonathan forbes" Organization: Canada Remote Systems Distribution: alt Date: 13 Mar 93 08:28:58 EST Lines: 14 -> You forget the part about infinite energy. Well, that's only with conventional physics as we know it; who knows what else might be possible. -> >I hope I've made that clear, my English isn't too good. -> -> Your english is fine, but is not English spoken in the UK? English is the language spoken in the U.K., U.S. and other countries. "english" is a verb meaning "to translate into English". -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario 416-629-7000/629-7044 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!sml108 Organization: Penn State University Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 09:36:45 EST From: Message-ID: <93072.093645SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock References: <15840005@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Lines: 10 I can offer you a little more information on that object, however I cannot give you a reference as it's been too long since I read about it. The last I knew, the person who found it wanted an inordinate amount of money to allow it to be subjected to analysis and when the money was ultimately provided, he made up some other excuse and never actually physically produced the object. All that has ever been seen are the pictures... Make of that what you want... Scott "I'm Popi the UFO man, Beep! Beep!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: ufo: some points to c Message-ID: <1993Mar13.161705.22302@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar13.4962.14136@dosgate> Distribution: alt Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 16:17:05 GMT Lines: 32 In article <1993Mar13.4962.14136@dosgate> "jonathan forbes" writes: >-> You forget the part about infinite energy. > >Well, that's only with conventional physics as we know it; who knows >what else might be possible. Then, I assume, you do not know. >-> >I hope I've made that clear, my English isn't too good. >-> >-> Your english is fine, but is not English spoken in the UK? > >English is the language spoken in the U.K., U.S. and other countries. >"english" is a verb meaning "to translate into English". Opps, I thought I saw a .uk in yout address. Perhaps I was thinking of another post. Ontario, that is not the Canadian city which outlawed the use of the engligh language as I recall. BTW, I was not aware that "english" was a verb, or had a verb form. My dictionary lists the word as an adverb, not quite the same. >-- >Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario >416-629-7000/629-7044 Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14402 alt.alien.visitors:14358 alt.religion.kibology:7312 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Observation. Message-ID: <77395@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 06:34:37 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <67397@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Thinkers: I have one observation to make. Kibology and Scientology sound a lot alike. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:6641 alt.alien.visitors:14359 sci.skeptic:40652 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Answer Message-ID: <77396@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 06:39:25 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1993Mar5.022135.2775@netcom.com> <77079@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar9.224129.14003@netcom.com> Lines: 2 Dear Folks: The answer to Mr. Sheaffer's question is Yes. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7313 alt.alien.visitors:14360 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Keebler Bigfootf Message-ID: <77397@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 06:44:26 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: alt References: Lines: 3 Dear One and All: I do believe that my computer doesn't know how to spell believe (blieve). John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!maths.tcd.ie!zed From: zed@maths.tcd.ie (John Walsh) Subject: Re: RADIO WAVES Message-ID: <1993Mar13.181733.26503@maths.tcd.ie> Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. References: <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk> <1993Mar10.215918.28913@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 18:17:33 GMT Lines: 34 wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: >In article <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk>, mcsdc1rs@dct.ac.uk writes: >>HELLO EARTHBEINGS. >> [stuff deleted] >>MY NAME IS BILLY I HEAR RADIO WAVES IN MY HEAD. >> >>MY FAVOURITE STATION IS ATLANTIC 252 AS I CAN GET A CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION IF >> >>ATLANTIC 252 >> >Um... I don't know if this will scare you... but there is no ATLANTIC 252 >listed in the station master directory I have by my terminal. Nothing even >close... there was, however, a plane that went down in the Bermuda Triangle >about 17 years ago with the call sign Atlantic Two-Five-Two... It was lost and >never recovered. No survivors. No Wreckage. Nothing. Not even the black box >survived. I think this might be a little bigger than you think, bub. Um... I don't know if this will scare you... but there IS an ATLANTIC 252. Look again at the address of the original posting. It says > mcsdc1rs@dct.ac.uk writes: UK happens to be the United Kingdom of Britain and N. Ireland. Yep ,there is life outside the U.S.A. (even radio stations , MTV (Europe,Asia,Austrlia)), Universities, etc.) Lets face it Bill "Alien visitor is not equivalent to Non U.S. citizen in U.S." >Bill zed Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: UFOs negative? Message-ID: <1993Mar13.200344.12148@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1993Mar13.092436.13062@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 20:03:44 GMT Lines: 28 In article <1993Mar13.092436.13062@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> pachecod@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dan Pacheco) writes: > Is it me or are the majority of these UFO / "alien" experiences >negative in nature? Fear of being controlled by an unknown force >seems to be the dominant characteristic, followed by a fear of encountering >an unknown intelligence. Cults have been springing up since the >sixties which are preaching a pseudo-religious event similar to the >apocalypse and a UFO "landing" which, for all intents and purposes, >is uncannily similar to predictions of a second coming of Christ or >some other prophet. Perhaps this is the reason why book stores continue >to group UFO book under the "metaphysical" section along with >Shirley McClain's books about levitation and personal deism. > Why do they take on such a "cult," or "occult?" And if these >beings are really just studying us, why are they putting such a >strong effort into what seems to be an effort to scare us and shake >us up? No, they are not negative. There are many positive aspects of abduction, but it is not easy to grasp from the popular media and books on the subject. For more of a benign viewpoint, Boyland, Sprinkle, Harder, and Lisa Royal (Visitors From Within) would be good people/books to investigate. The earth, humanity, and the greys, are all evolving... is the crux of thier theories. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Clearance?! Message-ID: <1993Mar13.201759.12959@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1993Mar12.212047.26216@unlv.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 20:17:59 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Mar12.212047.26216@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: > No, it is not second-hand, newpaper information...Don't >you get it? I'm not reveiling my sources.. We already have enough >goons around here scarfing up young inventors' designs and giving >them A1 clearance just to keep their mouth's shut! > > ^^^^^^^^^BLONDIE See, UFOlogy eventually seems to degenerate into some sort of a conspiracy or conspiracy theory. And that is usually about as far as it goes. Blondie, are you not compromising you own clearance just by mentioning it? Rich payner@netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!msuinfo!marlin.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@marlin.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Date: 13 Mar 1993 22:48:01 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ntob1$iom@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> References: <21669@mindlink.bc.ca> <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: marlin.cps.msu.edu In article <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com>, max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) writes: |> |> |> It's easy to produce bloodless incisions in a test subject. You |> must first drain all the blood from the subject. simple, huh? |> And, this may be done very cleanly, almost painlessly and with |> absolutely NO mess whatsoever, using simple medical equipment |> available at a pharmacy. Who might do this you ask? Well, cults |> are very likely. Think about it. Remove the blood. Drink it and use |> it in rituals, along with a few assorted other parts. Not very |> complicated, easily possible, and even likely. |> |> Max Elliott max@megatek.com Wake up pal, and smell the coffee... Do some reading to see the magnitude and scope of the mutilations. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.ossi.com!news.fai.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Message-ID: <7bXI02tR3aoG01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 12 Mar 93 21:18:49 GMT References: <1993Mar8.203818.20186@unlv.edu> <1993Mar11.172525.5758@dazixco.ingr.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 12 In article <1993Mar11.172525.5758@dazixco.ingr.com> cgyoung@suneyes.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Young) writes: > >Also, what exactly are those funny zig-zagging lights that frequent >areas with mutilations? > Drunk Aliens out for a cruise? -- ........--=={0}==--.........................--=={0}==--.............. --=={0}==-- * . *. dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com * .* --=={0}==--. * --=={0}==-- * . DENISE FAITH SOLIS --=={0}==--*.* --=={0}==--.....--=={0}==--..................*.............--=={0}==-- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!marlin.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@marlin.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Carl Sagan's Article Date: 13 Mar 1993 23:56:11 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 57 Sender: wilbur@marlin.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ntsar$6j1@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: marlin.cps.msu.edu In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> In article rcox@bones (Richard Cox) writes: |> >In the 'Parade Magazine' dated March 7th, 1993, Carl Sagan wrote an article entitled "Are They Coming For Us?" Based on the total lack of physical evidence, he concludes that UFOs and alien abductions are nothing more than mass hallucinations. |> > |> >I'm surprised there haven't been any comments about his article in this forum.... |> |> That's because those of us who can read agree with him. Actually, |> I didn't read that article, but I've heard him comment on this |> eslewhere. |> |> One interesting point he makes is that adbuction stories like |> these go back centuries, but that the alleged adbuctors reflect |> beliefs of the time. Nowadays people think it's space aliens |> and imagine them doing "scientific experiments" on them; before |> it was demons and they were tortured their captives. |> |> The bottom line remains the same: not a shed of actual evidence. |> |> Yeah, I guess you are right...Not a shred of evidence... Not to mention the thousands of people who say they have been abducted, and whos stories are so closely matched. And that these people are from all over the world, not just from one town. Or that the top (respected) researchers, who interview these people, state that all these people observe the same markings and insignias. Which some of these markings and insignia have purposely been witheld from the public to allow REAL cases of abduction to be confirmable. As WE, the general public, dont have sr-71 blackbirds to zoom around and see these things for ourselves, we have to make a decision as to what we believe when the Govt tells us that they dont exist. Obviously, you have blind faith in the Govt. Do yourself a favor and read a few books on the subject. Talk to a few REAL researchers, REAL abduction researchers. The circumstantial evidence alone is overwelming. This is not a courtroom. Yeah, I admit most of it (if not all) is circumstantial evidence, but look at the volume and quality of the data. Look at the players involved, the careers, the tragedies of peoples lives after they tell their stories. Some things you dont have to have actual physical evidence to make a conviction. Look at murder...you dont have to have produce a dead body in court to prove murder. Just enough circumstantial... |> ---peter |> |> |> Brick Wilbur Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!marlin.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@marlin.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Date: 14 Mar 1993 00:47:18 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1ntvam$6j1@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> References: <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: marlin.cps.msu.edu In article <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: |> In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: [cut stuff out] |> |> There's a Book I have read bits and pieces of called "The Great Lakes |> Triangle". It deals with both the unexplained sightings of UFOs and the |> unexplained disappearances of vessels of all sorts in the area. I'll see if I |> can dig it up and post excerpts that I find prudent. There was one that stuck |> in my mind as interesting... the disappearance of the Edmund Fitzgerald - as |> per the song of a similar title. A HUGE freighter that was lost in one of the |> lakes... no wreckage was ever found. I'm not even sure if a single survivor |> was found either. |> Actually, last summer some scientists came across the wreckage. Made big news here in Michigan. |> |> Bill Brick Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14368 alt.paranormal:6642 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!srk106 Organization: Penn State University Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 20:10:45 EST From: Senthil Ramas Kumar Message-ID: <93072.201045SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Linda Moulton Howe at Penn State University Lines: 20 On Saturday, March 20, 1993 at 1:00 pm, 102 Forum Building, University Park Campus, Penn State, the Penn State UFO Discussion Group will proudly present a symposium called "Earth Mysteries" featuring Linda Moulton Howe. Ms. Howe is an Emmy award winning documentary producer of "A Strange Harvest", about the Cattle Mutilation mystery, "Earth Mysteries: Alien Life Forms", and UFO Report: Sightings", which lead to the "Sightings" series now showing on the Fox network. She is a speaker at conferences and symposiums concerning the environment and evidence that other intelligences are intruding on the planet. She has done dozens of interviews for radio, TV and newspapers including the "Montel Williams Show". This 2 1/2 hour symposium will cover the cattle mutilation phenomenon, the government cover-up, alien abductions and crop circles. For more information contact: Janet L. Smith, 123 Ramblewood Road, PA Furnace, PA 16865 (814) 237-6763 phone/fax jls19@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!mach1!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: KRLL files and Gary S. Message-ID: Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 01:50:46 GMT Lines: 11 Hmmm. Is this Gary Stollman mentioned in the KRLL file the same Gary Stollman who (infrequently, these days) posts here? Whatever happened to the pellet gun, Gary? -- kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca Guru Meditation: Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Date: 13 Mar 1993 20:03:20 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 39 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1nu3p8INNe7j@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> <1ntvam$6j1@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu In article <1ntvam$6j1@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@marlin.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) writes: :In article <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: :|> In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: : : : :[cut stuff out] :|> :|> There's a Book I have read bits and pieces of called "The Great Lakes :|> Triangle". It deals with both the unexplained sightings of UFOs and the :|> unexplained disappearances of vessels of all sorts in the area. I'll see if I :|> can dig it up and post excerpts that I find prudent. There was one that stuck :|> in my mind as interesting... the disappearance of the Edmund Fitzgerald - as :|> per the song of a similar title. A HUGE freighter that was lost in one of the :|> lakes... no wreckage was ever found. I'm not even sure if a single survivor :|> was found either. :|> : :Actually, last summer some scientists came across the wreckage. Made big news :here in Michigan. Hate to tell you, but the wreckage was found a few years ago. Please refer to my earlier post about this. I can probably get a more specific date tomorrow at the museum I mentioned in that post (free admission is nice! Thanks to Army Corps of Engineers for great museum!) :|> :|> Bill : : :Brick -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!ninjaman From: ninjaman@cwis.unomaha.edu (Charles Adam Lichtenberg) Subject: Re: Cattle Mutilations. Message-ID: <1993Mar14.034501.22256@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <21589@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 03:45:01 GMT Lines: 23 Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca writes: > John_-_Winston > > >Dear Folks: At the present time we are having a new outbreak of > >cattle mutilations throughout the world. I'll try to report to you > >about this at a later time. > > Of course, there's many cattle mutilations. As long as people eat beef it > will remain so. I believ that the cattle are making the crop circles while > they graze. EXCUSE ME, but some of these circles I have seen were in the middle of a corn field. Now I come from a farming background and know for a fact that farmers do not stick there cows in the middle of a corn field to graze. If that one brain cell in you head would kick on you would know this. Then, because they've innocently created some great cosmic > symbol they bloat and die in awe from too much comprehension. Better to be > bovine than divivine. > Colleen > > -- > Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.ossi.com!news.fai.com!amdahl!toad.com!chroma From: chroma@toad.com (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico Message-ID: <32606@toad.com> Date: 12 Mar 93 22:11:35 GMT References: <1993Mar5.185911.19956@unlv.edu> Reply-To: chroma@toad.com.UUCP (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') Organization: Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Lines: 23 What are the locations of the interesting places in Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico, which are reported to involve the proverbial "high strangeness" , exact locations would be nice, or at least general vacinities. I may be able to go and hang out at a friend's relatives place in Phoenix, and tho I know distances are some cases are great, and its like saying well I can stay in San Francisco but I want to investigate things in Los Angeles. If this comes off I hope to go photograph things, try time exposures and Infrared Film etc. Right Now I can not afford starlight binoculars or the starlight lens, which alas costs $14,000. But Infrared Film might be interesting. I know of the places in Dulce and Lindreth New Mexico. Right Now I am in the planning stages of all of this. Please email me or post to the group if you feel there would be general interest and all that. Have Fun, Sends Steve chroma@toad.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14405 alt.alien.visitors:14373 sci.skeptic:40663 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Morningland. Message-ID: <77439@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 93 21:00:54 PST Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 33 Subject: UFO Conference. Everyone, remember that the National New Age & "Truth About UFO's" Conference started on the 12th of March and will be going till the 15th of March. It will be in the Lafayette Hotel, 2223 El Cajon Blvd. San Diego, Calif. For information call 908-602-3407. I probably won't be there this time. On friday the 12th of March I watched an episode of the TV series called Sightings. It was talking about Bud Hopkins of MUFON doing some investigating into abductions of human beings. Now it appears that we are having multiple abductions. That means that many people are being abducted at one time. Two years ago when I attended the UFO Conference in Pheonix, Arizona, I met a nice young lady who had a display at the Conference. She was representing the group called Morningland. Here is some information about their group. PROTECTING YOURSELF AGAINST THE ALIEN 'HARVESTERS' "According to a national survey one of every fifty persons has been abducted by aliens, with the total figure of abductees being around five million currently in America." This bold statement is not to be found in one of the weekly supermarket tabloids, but is provided by a most unusual source. Recently, a number of actively practicing psychiatrists have begun to offer therapy and group counseling for those who have undergone traumatic encounters at the hands of an alien force that seemingly has the power to invade our homes and our minds, taking the terrified for lone journeys into space and experimenting on their bodies in any fashion and manner that they so choose. To date--from what would seem to be an unlikely source--help of a highly spiritual nature has become available through a very unusual woman, Sri Donato of the California based organization, Morningland. End Part 1. Source of Information: UFO Review, No. 37 INNER LIGHT PUBLICATIONS BOX 753, NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ 08903 John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!infonode!ingr!dazixcon!suneyes!cgyoung From: cgyoung@suneyes.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Young) Subject: Re: Cow Mutilations Across the U.S.A. Message-ID: <1993Mar13.004841.22555@dazixco.ingr.com> Sender: cgyoung@suneyes (Greg Young) Nntp-Posting-Host: suneyes Organization: Intergraph Electronics References: <21669@mindlink.bc.ca> <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1993 00:48:41 GMT Lines: 83 In article <1993Mar9.230226.5537@megatek.com>, max@megatek.com (Max Elliot) writes: |> |> |> It's easy to produce bloodless incisions in a test subject. You |> must first drain all the blood from the subject. simple, huh? |> And, this may be done very cleanly, almost painlessly and with |> absolutely NO mess whatsoever, using simple medical equipment |> available at a pharmacy. Who might do this you ask? Well, cults |> are very likely. Think about it. Remove the blood. Drink it and use |> it in rituals, along with a few assorted other parts. Not very |> complicated, easily possible, and even likely. |> |> Max Elliott max@megatek.com Max: your comments are reasonable. I am sure that some mutilations are the work of sadistic people. A brief outbreak of such cases made TV news in Denver a couple of months ago, for example. However, the damage done to the animals in question was crude and not in the same catagory that concern me and others. I am a new participant in this news group so I am not sure what information concerning mutilations has been posted. Also, I do not know what information in general you have had access to. Therefor, I will briefly describe why the explanation you give (a common one) does not solve the whole mystery. Unlike, the UFO phenomenon in general, certain aspects of the animal mutilation mystery are well documented. Many people see the dead animals. Law inforcement people and vets in particular. Insurance claims are filed. Autopsies are performed. Here are some of the notable features of classic mutilation cases: (1) Mutilation cases sometimes occur rapidly and in the day-time. In other words, the animals are seen alive only a few hours before. (2) The cuts are not just bloodless, they are wonderfully smooth. Tissue edges in some cases seem to have been subjected to heat. The typical organs removed are: anuses (cored out!), sexual organs, ears (internal components and all), eyes, tongues (severed at the base) and flesh removed from the lower jaw. Obviously the removal of sexual organs arouses suspicion about cultists. The question is - are cultists wielding lasers or other high-tech cutting equipment? (3) Evidence of anesthesia has not been found to my knowledge. This is critical. Exactly how do you get an animal to cooperate without killing it first? (4) There is no sign of a struggle. (5) There are often no tracks of any kind to be seen near the animal, EVEN IN SNOW OR MUD. The comment has been made that some animals appear to have been dropped from the air. (6) Unmarked helicopters are often seen flying low over pastures where mutilations occur. Can cultists afford helicopters? If not cultists, why are other people with helicopters so interested? (7) UFO's frequent areas with mutilations. Hence the association. Now, I am not claiming that mutilations are done by aliens or people. I am saying that the situation can not be brushed off simply as the work of cultists. One final comment: a certain amount of common since can be applied here. It is easy to say - "oh yes, sadists wandering about cutting up cows and horses.", but consider what it would REALLY take to pull it off. People with animals in their back yards KNOW what is going on with their animals. Ranchers have had to deal with rustlers for a long time and many have been caught. No one has EVER been caught in the act of one of these classic mutilations. Please note that I am not trying to be harsh, I just feel the need to comment. Greg Young Boulder, Colorado From: brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 22:14:39 GMT Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: <15840007@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Organization: HP Mfg. Test Div., Loveland, CO Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpfcso!hplvec!brian Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: Lines: 30 Re...the Coso artifact (500000 old rock with alien stuff in it): I want to thank those of you who responded to my post, telling me about the Charles FORT (not Ford) Society. The book I referred to has it spelled incorrectly. I found the Int'l Fortean Organization listed in the directory of U.S. Organizations in the library. I spoke to the president, Ray Manners, and he said that they did indeed investigate the Coso artifact. He added that a TV show was recently inquiring about it and went so far as to locate and interview one of the original prospectors. They could not find the artifact, however, as it was apparently sold to a gem store a long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised to see it turn up on Unsolved Mysteries. You can obtain a copy of the INFO Journal containing the report on the artifact by enclosing $6 with a request for INFO Journal #4 to: International Fortean Org. P.O. Box 367 Arlington, VA 22210-0367 According to the organization directory, the organization was founded in 1965, has 1500 members, and was named after Charles Hoy Fort (1874-1932), an American author who researched and documented unusual and unexplained natural phenomena. The org consists of "scientists, scholars and laypeople from 20 countries concerned with new and unusual scientific discoveries and philosophic problems pertaining to the criteria of scientific theories and validity. Brian Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!ucsbcsl!apricot!dt4 From: dt4@apricot.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: We cannot give clone cells life, Sagan... Message-ID: Date: 13 Mar 93 23:46:02 GMT References: <1993Mar11.192747.14114@unlv.edu> Sender: root@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu Lines: 16 blondie@lonnie-mack.cs.unlv.edu (Heidi Vogel) writes: > We are able to clone or make a cell, but we still are not >able to give it life. OK basic biology time! What is 'life'? When you clone a cell, you start it in an initial state, and from there, it runs by itself. Now, since it is a cell, it has all the charatericsic of life, and thus can be said to be living. Even if this were not so, if the aliens can't get 'life' into their products, and thus need people to give them life, that doesn't say much for alien technology either. *dt* Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14406 alt.alien.visitors:14377 alt.religion.kibology:7325 alt.games.lynx:2037 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!by712 From: by712@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark E. Bradley) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,alt.games.lynx Subject: Re: Answer Date: 14 Mar 1993 15:32:29 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1nvj6dINNmpf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77252@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: by712@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark E. Bradley) NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com () says: >Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the illustrious one referred >to by the august name of Jaguar is 100% correct. I don't debate. >John Winston. The Jaguar is coming out in August? That soon? And it's a 100-bit system? Atari is just too weird. RJR Nabisco Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14378 soc.culture.african.american:25754 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,soc.culture.african.american Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!chnews!ornews.intel.com!percy!agora!robart From: robart@agora.rain.com (Hu Man) Subject: Re: Spark Plug Found in 500,000 Year Old Rock Message-ID: Keywords: pyramids Organization: Agora, Oregon References: <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu> <1993Mar10.192350.25679@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Distribution: world Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 14:35:00 GMT Lines: 17 In article <1993Mar10.192350.25679@ultb.isc.rit.edu> wba2320@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: >In article , robart@agora.rain.com (Hu Man) writes: >>In article <1993Mar3.221529.22796@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: >>> They also found a battery in one of the pyramids too.... >> >> Was it an Eveready Energizer? > >this would not be unusual as the Romans had health spas of sorts where one >would go if they had arthritic-type ailments and they would be submersed in >sea water baths that held electric eels for a shock-type stimulus. But the pyramids were in Egypt and Mexico, not Rome. -- "When I began the campaign, the projected deficit was $250 billion. Now, it's up to $400 billion." Bill Clinton, July 6 1992 Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:7327 alt.alien.visitors:14379 alt.folklore.urban:67015 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!pipex!warwick!warwick!not-for-mail From: maupb@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J L Saunders) Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.folklore.urban Subject: Re: True Bibo Facts Message-ID: <1nvuqnINNgpm@violet.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Date: 14 Mar 93 18:51:03 GMT References: <76930@cup.portal.com> <1993Mar8.022341.8297@midway.uchicago.edu> Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.csv.warwick.ac.uk In article <1993Mar8.022341.8297@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes: %In article kfisher3@mach1.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: %>John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com wrote: %>: Dear Folks: I was Jewish about many lifetimes ago. %>: John Winston %> %>I had a broken leg a few years back.. % %I had a Jewish girlfriend who broke her ankle. Has anyone else slept with %someone Jewish who broke a bone, or knows someone who has? I'm Jewish, and I once broke the metacarpal leading from my right little finger (on a bedpost!) - I never slept with anyone in that bed, though... J. -- Jason L Saunders [ RouE ] email: maupb@csv.warwick.ac.uk snail: Warwick Business School, University of Warwick, Coventry CV4 7AL, UK "At least you know a sicko's committed" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!news From: atemps@zax.acs.calpoly.edu (A Richard Temps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Diamagnetism as a form of UFO propulsion Message-ID: <1993Mar14.201914.118207@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 14 Mar 93 20:19:14 GMT Sender: news@zeus.calpoly.edu Distribution: na Organization: Academic Computing Services, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Lines: 148 OK, all, here is the explanation I mentioned for my Diamagnetic field theory. Enjoy..... (I hope this didn't get posted before, if it did, I'm sorry!) Diamagnetism: A New Field Just about everyone is familiar with normal Diamagnetism. Every atom in the universe has a diamagnetic field surrounding it; depending on the electron spin, this field could be moving upwards or downwards. (+ or -) If you have a negative charge (electron) and a positive charge (nucleus), the negative particle will be attracted towards and orbit the more positive one. Actually, it doesn't 'orbit', per se - in a simple hydrogen atom, the electron is found in a bilobed 'field' around the nucleus, resembling a figure eight if looked at from the side. Physicists around the world have explained the behaviour of the electron around a nucleus very well for themselves, and alternative explanations are looked upon a little like a sudden outburst from a Flat Earther. Well, I am going to pose such an alternative explanation. I am sure scientists can come up with a lot of experimental evidence to dispute my theory, but _I'm_ pretty sure I am right, and I leave it up to you to decide. Also, I should give credit where it is due - the original postulation for a new Diamagnetic force came from an old book called 'UFOs and Diamagnetism', by E. Burt. If you can scrounge up a copy at your university library, it's an interesting read. My theory is based on his, but brought up to the times a bit more (the book was copywrite 1970). Also, I will tell how some of my researches correlate to my theory. OK, imagine this. You have not one force acting on an electron from the proton in a nucleus, but two. One is a strong attractive force. Opposite charges attract. But, my theory states that there is a repulsive force as well. A much weaker force that grows intensely when the electron gets very close to the proton. I imagine that this weaker force's exact strength could be calculated if the right computer simulation were fed the right experimental data, and who knows, perhaps I may aspire to that one day. But for now, just imagine that there is a repulsive, weaker force acting on the electron. Now, of course we know that the rapid movement of electrical charges creates a diamagnetic field. All sorts of useful electronic principals are based on this. But, I propose a different kind of field - a _reverse_ diamagnetic field. Such a field would allow all sorts of things to become possible, as I shall explain later. This field would be generated not by large movements of negatively charged particles, but by positivtely charged ones. It is relatively easy for us to generate a diamagnetic field; not so for this other field. However, I believe that a strong enough field under the right conditions (more later) would be able to move large objects rather quickly. Let us do a bit of imagining here, and create our own spacecraft, to better illustrate this. Let's take a basic model, no frills saucer body. We take the rim of this sucker and install some electrical equipment, maybe a Van Der Vaals machine. We make sure that a very big positive charge gets generated on the rim of the craft, and insulate it to make sure it doesn't discharge anywhere else. OK, now we install some motors and do some cutting, and we make the rim able to spin around seperate from the craft. Remember, we gotta make this a _moving_ charge. If that isn't enough, then maybe we scrap the spinning rim idea and go with a circular plasma tube, with some accelerator/cyclotron mechanism to make it go very fast around inside the tube. Voila, fast moving positive charge. Now, we do something else: on the top half of the hull of our Instant ready-to-buzz-Clintons-lawn-party UFO, we place a large negative charge. Now, let me explain what happens when we throw the ON switch. The top of the hull will get a large negative charge (insulated from the rest of the hull and the inside of course). The positive charge will start moving quickly, and our reverse-Diamagnetic field will build up. Now, at this point, a new force that we have nevr encountered before will develop. Now, remember that repulsive force I mentioned? The one that was so weak, our scientific community has yet to acknowledge it (if it exists, of course) ? This field is that repulsive force magnified a millionfold. Now, something funny's going to happen here: The direction of our spin dictates the direction of the force (polar north or south), and this repels electrons, right? The whole ship is regular matter, and all matter has electrons. So, the energy we put into this strong positive, moving charge will go towards the strength of this field, and the field will instantly start reacting on the ship, by 'pushing' all the electrons of the ship upwards. Now, if we push the electron clouds, they will pull the nucleus along with it. Voila! Propulsion. And, non-Newtonian propulsion at that. Consider some effects of this field. It's not just pushing the ship, but all of its contents as well. This means, if we suddenly tilted out craft strongly in one direction, and we blazed in another direction and full speed, our bodies would not be ground into the upholstery. Indeed, during even huge shifts in direction at supersonic speeds, we could be pouring ourselves a cold glass of Coke, and not spill a drop. The field acts on everything at once, so every atom is being acted on at once and equally. Now, I mentioned that large positive charge on the top of the hull - let me rephrase that to say that the both sides of the hull would be negatively charged (it wouldn't make sense, as it's the direction of the field that determines direction, and not which side is negatively charged). If this field indeed acts upon negative charges, then one might think it would act on the hull more than on what's inside, thus creating a difference in the strength of the interaction. This may be the case; I'm not sure. It may be that you would create a highly negative charge inside the craft as well; this would not be harmful to the occupants if done properly. Alright, now that's my theory. Now, let me tell you how I dredged all this up. First of all, there's been a number of anomalies concerning mass and experiments involving charge. I can not tell you any examples for right now, although I remember reading about a Japanese experiment where researchers noted a drop in mass of an object in some experiment involving charges. Expanding from that, we take the large base of UFO sightings. I will only deal with the 'flying saucer' type, as they are probably the easiest for our science to deal with. They have often been found spinning, and they move in very abrupt motions at very high speeds. If you think about it, no structure known to man can withstand the forces involved in a ninety degree change in direction at supersonic speeds, but I am sure that is exactly what these craft can do. OK, let us put aside the idea that maybe they got plenty alloys known to them that could withstand the stress; what about the inhabitants? I think there's too many reports of these craft being manned to say that they are all robot observers. If they are definitely manned, than how could their bodies possibly withstand the force of sudden shifts? Even today, a limiting factor in the effectiveness of jet fighter air combat is not the titanium-hulled jet, but the stresses to which it subjects the pilot. Often they are more than the pilot can take, and the pilot goes unconscious. Obviously, the aliens have gotten around this problem very handily, and my theory would go a long way towards explaining just how it could be done. Now, let's examine the composition of the hull. After reading Jacques Vallee's latest, 'UFOs in the Soviet Union: A Cosmic Samizdat' (I hope I got the name right), he describes of soviet researchers recovering hull fragments of UFOs. He gave very sketchy details, but it seemed to be a Cesium-Lanthanum-Neodymium alloy, with the very special property of having a magnetic field fourteen times stronger on one side than the other. Whoa, now, magnetic fields... now, how can they be significant that they'd want to make their hulls have 'em? I have two theories on this... A. It dampens the reverse-field effect outside the hull, so as to not to bring up chunks of earth when the thing takes off, or B. It makes things safer/more comfortable somehow for the inhabitants, by keeping the diamagnetic fireworks externalized somehow. I'm sure an alien would know. You might note that these craft are rather silent, for all their rapid maneuvers and such. I can attribute this to the possibility that if the effects of the diamagnetic field are limited to the hull, perhaps a limited repulsive field would act out against everything outside the hull to a limited range. I am sketchy on my information here, but I would think that it would create a vacuum outside the craft. Plus, when the craft speeds throughthe air, this field would ionize air particles in front of it, creating a 'halo' effect. Note that a vacuum surrounding a ship would make it totally silent as it zips around places. In summation, I'd say that this field would be a very probability when talking about the ways and means these craft fly. I am a heavy believer that such a craft could be within our own technology ... heck, almost something you could build in your backyard with the right parts. If it could be constructed, and marketed, the world would see some major changes. The end result, of course, is that you could take a craft from Ney York to Tokyo in thirty minutes, and the jet lag would be really atrocious. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) Subject: Re: Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico Message-ID: <1993Mar14.202330.27715@netcom.com> Organization: BeHereNow References: <1993Mar5.185911.19956@unlv.edu> <32606@toad.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 20:23:30 GMT Lines: 60 In article <32606@toad.com> chroma@toad.com.UUCP (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') writes: > >What are the locations of the interesting places in Arizona, >Nevada and New Mexico, which are reported to involve the >proverbial "high strangeness" , exact locations would be nice, >or at least general vacinities. I may be able to go and hang >out at a friend's relatives place in Phoenix, and tho I know >distances are some cases are great, and its like saying well >I can stay in San Francisco but I want to investigate things >in Los Angeles. If this comes off I hope to go photograph things, >try time exposures and Infrared Film etc. Right Now I can >not afford starlight binoculars or the starlight lens, which >alas costs $14,000. But Infrared Film might be interesting. >I know of the places in Dulce and Lindreth New Mexico. Right Well, in AZ, the only state I know much about of these 3, Sedona is pretty high on the list. Go to the Eye of the Vortex book shop on hyway 89a and find the books by the local author, Tom Dongo. His Mysteries of Sedona is pretty good, but the heavy book is his latest, The Alein Tide! It is anectdotal, but is a collection of residents sightings and experiences, and is real food for thought. I really enjoyed the book, it details sightins of not only the proverbial red lights around the famous vortex areas of Sedona, but firsthand sightings of greys in peoples' backyards, black helicopters, secret under ground bases, MIBs, and lots of other stuff going on in that area which is not very big sqare-mile wise. Definately go to Boynton Canyon, and to Cathedral Rock, and Bell Rock. This is where most people have experiences. (All in the Sedona area.) You can camp for free on Shnebly Rd. if you want to, out past the residential areas are Federal lands with areas to park and camp in great privacy. Take your binocs and a telescope (rich field) if you can get one. The stars are amazing on a clear night. The red rocks (mountains) are inspiring. Sedona is close to the base of the Mogillion Rim, a geological fault line that crosses Northern AZ from east to west. This is where the mountains start, and the high trees and forest areas of AZ. Yes, AZ has mountains and lots of forests, north of the Mohave Desert. This Rim area is famous for sightings, and there is a place close to where my father has retired that is called Fossil Creek. It is a great place to swim, and camp, and my fathers freinds used to see UFO's and take pictures of them here. They were so regular, that they knew when to be waiting with the camera every night. This was years ago, I have not camped there yet, so I don't know if this still goes on, but at one time it sure did. Fossil Creek is close to Pine and Strawberry, and is about 1 1/2 hours from Sedona. Sedona is 2 1/2 hours from Phoenix, on the way to Flagstaff. Have a nice trip, and let us know what you find... Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov!dzz8420 From: dzz8420@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Dean Zevchek) Subject: Re: San Diego UFO Conf. March 12-15 Message-ID: <14MAR199316350458@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio References: <1993Mar6.150136.19714@netcom.com> Date: 14 Mar 1993 16:35 EST Lines: 13 In article <1993Mar6.150136.19714@netcom.com>, rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) writes... > >NATIONAL NEW AGE $ "TRUTH ABOUT UFOS" CONFERENCE > >March 12-13-14-15 1993 > >Lafayette Hotel, 2223 El Cajon Blvd., San Diego, CA, USA > >WILLIAM COOPER "The sacrificed king" What's up with Cooper... I heard two rumors, one that he's missing, and one that he was murdered. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov!dzz8420 From: dzz8420@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Dean Zevchek) Subject: Re: Roswell Incident Message-ID: <14MAR199316464411@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio References: <2940613235.1.p00335@psilink.com> Date: 14 Mar 1993 16:46 EST Lines: 12 In article <2940613235.1.p00335@psilink.com>, "Rafael Collado" writes... >I am writing a play about Roswell and would appreciate any information, >trivia or personnel experiences. The more detailed the better. > Best source is as follows: Just released... UFO SECRET: The Roswell Crash (Video Documentary) Contact: New Century Productions 12322 Poway Rd. Poway, CA 92046 or call 1-800-677-0905 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!news From: storm@student.business.uwo.ca (Kelvin Thompson) Subject: Mornin' Organization: University of Western Ontario Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 22:09:18 GMT Message-ID: <820e1B2w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> Sender: news@julian.uwo.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca Lines: 75 Well. Nice to get back on the Net. Hello to John and BLONDIE. Things seem to be picking up around this neck of the planet again. I have a note here from one of my associates: Dear Good Folks Seems like everyone is missing the real life-issues on Alien-produced diseases. Don't we realize that most of us are already terminally poisoned by virtually everything we eat and drink and inhale? We've put corrosive chlorine and fluorine into our drinking water; we've put deadly insecticides into our food chain; our governments have prohibited the possession and sale of life-giving plants that heal heart disease, brain dysfunction, cancer, terminal intestinal malfunction, etc., etc., etc. And we are using artificially-made chemicals such as pain-killers, decongestants, steroids, hard drugs, and suchlike, that actually kill us off quickly so we won't live too long to become a drain on the national economy. Shame, shame. And all of these murderous things done in the name of laws which further corrupt and degenerate us and our progeny. What are the statistics? Something like two in five persons will die of heart attacks; one in four will die of cancer. By comparison, AIDS is so low in statistics and numbers affected that it hardly rates as an epidemic such as heart disease and cancer have become. Speak of government plots against its own people! Who is to say that we and our religions and our governments and our mega-corporations have not already worked, perhaps unwittingly, in cooperation with extraterrestrial destruct-forces to change the laws of our nations so as to work against us and destroy us gradually by preventing us from fully developing our mental and perceptive abilities? Upon careful examination of the actual laws and intents of various religions, governments and corporations, it seems that a very carefully worked-out scheme is in operation to help all of mankind along to its own destruction by gradual erosion of our physical, emotional, and spiritual health by deliberately poisoning our very life and food sources in the name of 'our good'. Good folks: Let's wake up - if we yet are able. Let us love Life with all our strength and abilities. Let us protect ourselves against the dangerous and poisonous things we have made into food and drink. Let us put aside our deadly personal actions and all the other myriad destructive pollutions we have created because we can't perceive clearly what we are doing to ourselves. By losing our perceptive abilities of our destructive indulgences we are vulnerable to hostile alien domination - whether of extraterrestrial or terrestrial legal origin - or as seems to have already happened, a combination of both. It stands to reason that any intelligent hostile aliens would try to take us over by catching us totally off-guard, not by the open use of arms and weapons and ray guns, but rather by very slow, treacherous infiltration of our laws and codes of social behavior, all of which condition us like so many Pavlov's dogs to invert our sensibilities so as to perceive wrong as right, and self-destruction and death as preferable to life. A world civilization so powerfully death-oriented in its laws, its religions, its businesses, and its social customs - whatever the nation - surely may expect only a limited time of survival. What do we chose - this moment, in our own lives? Have we already, by our lack of ability to perceive, allowed our life-futures to be chosen for us by those who seek to destroy us? James Beacon END. So. That ends my associates message. By the way John, I received the message. An amusing time was had the other day when the Opposition tried to muscle their way into a few things. You know what they can be like, eh BLONDIE? Persistent little parasites! Alas, I think I pissed them off a bit when I ditched them. Regards, folks. - Storm [STORM@STUDENT.BUSINESS.UWO.CA] storm@student.business.uwo.ca (Kelvin Thompson) Western Business School -- London, Ontario Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov!dzz8420 From: dzz8420@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Dean Zevchek) Subject: Earl Neff Remembered Message-ID: <14MAR199317482379@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio Date: 14 Mar 1993 17:48 EST Lines: 8 Cleveland Ohio's premier Ufologist. Earl Neff, passed away on Friday March 12th at the age of 90. Mr. Neff was active in the field since the early 1950's, and founded the country's longest living UFO group, The Cleveland Ufology Project established in 1958. I met Mr. Neff a few times and he always came across as a down to earth friendly man, and his knowledge in the field was unsurpassed. He will be greatly missed. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14386 alt.conspiracy:24101 sci.skeptic:40673 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!exucom.exu.ericsson.se!ericom!beppe!gunnar From: gunnar@beppe.ericsson.se (Gunnar Forsgren) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: FILE: Bill English radio interview Message-ID: Date: 14 Mar 93 21:32:52 GMT References: <1993Mar11.142957.1318@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@ericsson.se Organization: Ericsson Lines: 53 Nntp-Posting-Host: beppe.ericsson.se dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >BE: Well, it's Blue Book report number thirteen. >RB: Okay. Now what was in it that was so interesting? I mean, physical > evidence of alien machines and alien bodies, is that part of -- >BE: Well, there were several -- several dozens of photographs and among > those photographs they had photographs of recovered vehicles or > discs. They had photographs of autopsy reports of aliens -- This and other parts of this interview transcript, whether truth or fiction, must be top material for a movie or TV thriller ! Has this actual incident been dramatized in that way yet ? (I can see for myself the hero of such a movie trespassing into a military hangar and wiping the dust of an alien spacecraft hidden there by the government since the late fifties, the style of ship design resembling original Flash Gordon, topped with some high tech Spielberg effects and our hero then possibly taking off in it, or.. what would you suggest ?) I remember as a child the to-the-bones fright experienced from viewing the original 50's version of the science fiction movie 'Imposters'. I now realize that having the government be in secret cooperation with the aliens would form the basis of an even more powerful movie script. By the way, why didn't Bill English struggle more to come in contact with his family after he was 'deported' ? A few phone calls and letters and then he gave up ? Not what I would call a 'Family Man', bearing a british last name and all. Maybe everybody he tried to come in contact with had been replaced by an Imposter :-) Maybe he was under influence of something that controlled his will power. I remember a female friend of mine who told me of when she and another girl when at school age (12-13) had seen a disc formed alien craft at a landscape clearing by a forest. They had both stood there and watched it quietly for something like fifteen minutes after which it took off. After the event they never communicated anything with each other or anybody else about the incident for about fifteen years after that. She met her friend fifteen years later and incidentally asked here if she remembered that event in the forest. She remembered, but hadn't said anything to anybody else either. The natural way to react would probably have been to terrified run home scared to death and scream Mammy Mammy we saw... or at least talk to each other about it. But they had just turned around and walked home just like nothing had happened. And based on how I know her, I consider it a true story. --- Gunnar Forsgren Ericsson Telecom AB S-126 25 Stockholm SWEDEN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!cmcl2!panix!rpb From: rpb@panix.com (Rob Brady) Subject: Re: Life on Saturn Message-ID: Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC References: <77077@cup.portal.com> <38819@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 01:59:55 GMT Lines: 13 Some good reading would be 'Cosmos' by Carl Sagan (pop science book on astronomy in which he goes into great detail on what life on (or within the atomosphere) or Jupiter would have to be like. Arthur C. Clarke makes good use of this imagery in "2010: Odyssey two" and also in "2060" (with some appropriate subtitle). Clark also uses the geothermal activity on Io and Europa as the basis of imagining life on Europa. Life has been found in the deepest trenches of the ocean where sunlight never reaches it. This life uses the geothermal activity of the earth for energy. -- -- Rob Brady rpb@panix.com IP messages are all algorithmically compressible into 4 lines called .signature Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!hagar7.acc.Virginia.EDU!bss2p From: bss2p@hagar7.acc.Virginia.EDU (Brent Stone) Subject: Re: Help me debunk Bob Lazar UFO theory Message-ID: <1993Mar14.233658.27458@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia References: <1n8l9mINNofv@aludra.usc.edu> <1993Mar6.015843.16702@netcom.com> <1993Mar8.145954.12065@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 23:36:58 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1993Mar8.145954.12065@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes: >In article <1993Mar6.015843.16702@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff) writes: >>... >>Odds ARE, it's exactly what we think it is, a scramjet vertical takeoff >>aircraft. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Hmm. Where'd you get that from? Even "Aviation Leak" hasn't mentioned >that, or did I miss an article? > >Jeff He apparently goofed. Aviation and popular sci mags and Jane's weekly shoot for a conventional horizontal takeoff (or assisted takeoff) aircraft. BS Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!news.d.umn.edu!ub.d.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO base in Lake Ontario? Date: 14 Mar 1993 19:13:05 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth Lines: 60 Message-ID: <1o0l71INNp8@ub.d.umn.edu> References: <1993Mar10.194054.26365@ultb.isc.rit.edu> <1nm8sdINN7kb@ub.d.umn.edu> <1993Mar11.191905.14793@ultb.isc.rit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu OK, I went to the Duluth Marine Museum and picked up a fact sheet on the Edmund Fizgerald that was printed by the US Army Corps of Engineers: Detroit District. This should clear up all the errors (including my own) that have been previously stated. One of the factors making the sinking so infamous is that it was the first sinking on Superior in over 20 years (and it was the flagship of it's corperate fleet). It sank on November 10, 1975, in the middle of a fierce storm. Because they expected a storm when they left the Duluth-Superior Harbor, they took a more northerly route than the standard lanes. A second ship was following it a few miles behind (the Author M Anderson) keeping the Fizgerald on it's radar. As the ships were heading southeast twards Detroit (but still in Canadian Waters), both of the Fitzgerald's radar units went out. The crew reported that they had taken some damage and were taking on enough water to make the ship lean to one side, but reported they were "holding their own". A few hours later, the ship dissapeared from the Anderson's radar screen. An extensive search ensued. At first, only a little debris was recovered. However, during May of 1976, the US Coast Guard located the wreck and filmed it using a remote controlled submersible camera (similar to the one used with the Titantic). It rests in 535 ft. of water north or Whitefish Point, Mich, and west of Coppermine Point, Ontario, just inside Canadian waters. The 29 sailors who served on the ship are considered 'burried at sea'. The wreck is considered too costly to salvage. The ship broke in half (see crude diagram below) and the front half remains upright while the back half is upside down (not shown). ______ __ _| |___________________ _________| |___ \ __________| ____________| / \_____________/ /___________________________/ Back Front Officially, the cause of the ships loss is attributed to "loss of buoyancy". Many theories have been formulated as the exact cause, but the one that seems to fit most the facts [note: as stated on fact sheet, not my interpretation] and is believed by the Retired Captain of the Anderson, states that the Fitzgerals probably hit rocks in a shoal north of Caribou island, causing damage to her bottom. She began taking on water and started to slowly sink despite having the ballast pumps in full operation. The storm routinely boarded the ship as it sank lower into the water. The waves were large enough and frequent enough to allow water to stand on the deck, likely exceding the strength limits of the hatch covers (for the taconite holds). Waves were recoded to be 25 feet high, thus making this likely if the above situation did occur. If one of the forward hatches gave way, it would make the bow very heavy. At some point, the Fitzgerald hit a wave nose on, and couldn't recover her buoyancy. Source (see above), printed in 1991. Unless UFO's made the storm, it seems highly unlikely that they were involved in the incident (stong storms are common on Superior in November, and indeed, most shipwrecks occur then). -- _______________________________________________________________________ / Robert Fentiman / Amiga / InterNet: rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu / / Physics/CS Major / 2000 / At: University of Minnesota, Duluth / /____________________/_________/_______________________________________/ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!news From: atemps@zax.acs.calpoly.edu (A Richard Temps) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: my little contributio Message-ID: <1993Mar15.020315.109243@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 15 Mar 93 02:03:15 GMT References: <1993Mar13.4962.14135@dosgate> Sender: news@zeus.calpoly.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Academic Computing Services, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Lines: 22 In article <1993Mar13.4962.14135@dosgate> "jonathan forbes" writes: >-> but all of its contents as well. This means, if we suddenly tilted >-> out craft strongly in one direction, and we blazed in another >-> direction and full speed, our bodies would not be ground into the >-> upholstery. Indeed, > >Aren't you forgetting about inertia? >-- >Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario >416-629-7000/629-7044 No, I am not forgetting about inertia. If the point of acceleration is the _entire_ craft, instead of say a point confined to a single engine or something, then inertia becomes an academic matter of applying enough energy to overcome it. Many, many sightings confirm the fact that UFOs can shift directions very sharply at very high speeds. My theory upholds this, with the caveat that the strength of the power source determines how quickly you can offset the momentum of the craft to push it in the new direction. - Richard Temps . Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!physics.unr.edu!pyramid!foster From: foster@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Foster) Subject: Archive site ??? Message-ID: <1993Mar15.014340.15107@physics.unr.edu> Sender: usenet@physics.unr.edu (Usenet login account) Organization: University of Nevada, Reno Department of Computer Science Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:43:40 GMT Lines: 8 Is there an archive site for alt.alien.visitors? Also, would someone repost Cooper's papers, or send me a copy? thank you, Steve Foster Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!panix!rpb From: rpb@panix.com (Rob Brady) Subject: Re: UFO: Some points to consider Message-ID: Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC References: <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 02:24:29 GMT Lines: 22 In <1993Mar9.200131.27416@unlv.edu> blondie@little-jimmy.cs.unlv.edu writes: > I have a question... How can flesh withstand G-forces >accumulated in the accelleration to speed of light? You could actually accelerate at 1G and (using only newtonian formulas) be going c in 360 days or so. Of course you then have to throw the lorentz transform in and you never really reach c an the close you get the more force is required to propel you. If there are alien visitors it is almost certain that there is some loophole in relativity that we currently have no conception of (there is a big discussion of this in rec.science-fiction.tech (I can't recall if this name is right) in which various would be authors try to find ways around the current 'speed-limit') -- -- Rob Brady rpb@panix.com IP messages are all algorithmically compressible into 4 lines called .signature Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:14407 alt.alien.visitors:14393 alt.religion.kibology:7342 alt.games.lynx:2041 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!sdcvax!udpvax!ethylvm!vroomv!delbar!linq!beast From: beast@linq.UUCP (The Beast of Shorts) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology,alt.games.lynx Subject: Re: Answer Message-ID: <5845315293@linq.com> Date: 15 Mar 93 03:45:58 GMT Organization: Numb-minded Gerbil Collectors With Urine Samples References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <77252@cup.portal.com> <1nvj6dINNmpf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Sender: newsboy@linq.com X-Useless-Comment: Accept only really good substitutes. Lines: 14 In article <1nvj6dINNmpf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, by712@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark E. Bradley) wrote: > > In a previous article, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com () says: > >Dear Folks: I believe you will find that the illustrious one referred > >to by the august name of Jaguar is 100% correct. I don't debate. > >John Winston. > > The Jaguar is coming out in August? That soon? And it's a 100-bit system? > Atari is just too weird. Yes, that's 100 bits of RAM total. But it runs all your favorite SNES *ACHOO* games and supports a graphics mode of 100000x3 pixels. Gotta love sugar prostitutes. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!amdahl!toad.com!chroma From: chroma@toad.com (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: RADIO WAVES Message-ID: <32641@toad.com> Date: 14 Mar 93 22:36:34 GMT References: <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk> Reply-To: chroma@toad.com.UUCP (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') Organization: Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Lines: 38 In article <1993Mar8.143928.4289@dct.ac.uk> mcsdc1rs@dct.ac.uk writes: >HELLO EARTHBEINGS. > >MY NAME IS BILLY I HEAR RADIO WAVES IN MY HEAD. > >I WAS WONDERING IF ANY ONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM. > >IT MAY SEEM PRETTY FUNNY TO YOU PEOPLE BUT I CAN HONESTLY LISTEN TO THE RADIO > >IN MY HEAD WITHOUT THE USE OF A TRANSISTOR. > >IT IS VERY ANNOYING WHEN YOU ARE WALKING ABOUT LISTENING TO A CERTAIN STATION >AND YOU WALK UNDER A BUILDING AS I CAN ONLY NHEAR IN LONG WAVE > >MY FAVOURITE STATION IS ATLANTIC 252 AS I CAN GET A CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION IF >I STICK MY FINGER UP MY NOSE. > > >IS THIS ALIEN INTERVENTION OF SOME KIND......... > > > > >OR AM I JUST GIBBERING. > >ATLANTIC 252 > You must be under the control of the fiendish Tom Lehrer who is singing to you : Plagarize! Plagarize! Let No one's work evade you eyes, don't forget why the Good Lord made your eyes..." Have fun, Sends Steve Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!amdahl!toad.com!chroma From: chroma@toad.com (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question... Message-ID: <32643@toad.com> Date: 14 Mar 93 22:44:48 GMT References: <1993Mar9.091827.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> Reply-To: chroma@toad.com.UUCP (Steve XI The Entity_Attache') Organization: Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Lines: 21 In article <1993Mar9.091827.1@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz> stafford_u@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Ursula 'Fnordibo' Stafford) writes: >Hawo... > >I am a new arrival on Earth with just one question. > >WHY DON'T YOUR MCDONALDS RESTAURANTS HAVE CAT-BURGERS?!? > > Wilcox. > >-- >HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY - THE MOVIE!! >HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY 2 - THE REVENGE... > Ursula "Fnordibo" Stafford stafford_u@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz >DISCLAIMER: FUZZY!!! I prefer dog myself, especially the small yappy ones. But I am getting a bit ridiculous. Have fun, Sends Steve Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!ummackse From: ummackse@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Macksey) Subject: Where can I get GIF of Mars face? Message-ID: Summary: Want to know where on internet I can get Mars face GIF. Keywords: Mars face pyramids Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: vader.cc.umanitoba.ca Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 05:05:04 GMT Lines: 7 I know this topic is old, but does anyone know where I can get a good quality GIF of the Mars face? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Macksey "All kids love LOG(tm)!" (ummackse@ccu.umanitoba.ca) - Ren & Stimpy. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14397 alt.conspiracy:24121 sci.skeptic:40682 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: BEHOLD A STALE HORSE - Cooper expose' 5 Star! Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:44:47 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.014447.8272@bilver.uucp> Lines: 567 AREA:UFO Fri 12 Mar 93 20:18 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Stale Horse --------------------------------------------------------------------------- hehe..I scanned this in from a text that Steve Polydoros sent me last year. It's called, "Behold a Stale Horse" and is an expose' on Milton William Cooper. Save it to file and have fun with it! :} ------------------------------------------------------------------------- BEHOLD A STALE HORSE by I.M. FEDDUP This document is being distributed in order to bring to light and expose one of the biggest charlatans ever to appear in the UFO community. While most individuals in the UFO community are quite intelligent and perceptive there are some who, for unknown reasons, continue to cling to or at least indulge in the mad ravings of certain individuals no matter how blatant these individuals' lying, disinformation, and outright criminal fraud becomes. The charlatan in question here is one Milton William "Bill" Cooper. Bill Cooper would undoubtedly be the hands-down winner of the bullshit and golden shovel award, even over the likes of Phil Klass and George Bush. It is difficult to determine where to begin this investigative report due to the numerous areas of plagiarism, lies and unfounded speculation that have Mr. Cooper to thank as their source of origin. Let us begin, however, with his Los Angeles appearance at Hollywood High School in November of 1989 which will paint the first stroke on our portrait of the mental imbalance of this man and the general fantasy world in which he resides. Mr. Cooper was able to effectively promote his November 5th, 1989 lecture by appearing on two radio talk shows in the Los Angeles area the week prior to his event. In appearances on KFI-AM (The Tom Leykis Show) and KIEV-AM (The Paul Wallach Show), Mr. Cooper spent much time plagiarizing the work of others in the UFO and political fields, taking full credit for the "revelations" he'd made. After pilfering others' information and hard-earned investigative statistics, Mr. Cooper commonly weaves in a few new observations or twists in order to leave his fingerprints on the "revelation" and render the scenario just different enough to fool the few audience members who might recognize the information from someone else's research. During these radio appearances, Mr. Cooper tantalized the audience like a professional snake oil salesman by regaling them with the tale of his treasured video which clearly showed the driver of JFK's limousine, William Greer, turn around and deliver the fatal head shot to the president. As most of you probably know by now, Mr. Cooper's 5th-generation, black & white video shown at Hollywood High is the poorest copy of the Zapruder film ever to surface in a public venue. Anyone with any experience in photo analysis, law enforcement, or basic military service (or even a discriminating mind), would have instantly recognized that this copy was definitely not one on which to base your decision one way or another. As an interesting sidelight, the original owner of this film was Lars Hanson who has stated several times that Mr. Cooper, without his consent, had copied the film and was using it without his permission. Interestingly, during his lecture, Mr. Cooper elected to turn down Mr. Hanson's audio voice-over and gave him no credit for the film leaving the audience to surmise that once again, "Scoop" Cooper had gotten his hands on another top secret jewel from one of his endless contacts "on the inside." Incidentally, at the time of Mr. Cooper's November 5th presentation, Mr. Hanson had already discounted his prior contention that the film demonstrated that Greer fired the final shot. However, Mr. Cooper, seeking to add credibility to his personal espousals and his grainy video treasure (no doubt with the thought of future video sales in mind), stated that while he worked for the Office of Naval Intelligence from 1971 - 1973, he saw Top Secret paperwork which detailed the planning and carrying out of JFK's assassination. Mr. Cooper stated, "..and that secret paperwork stated that William Greer, using an electronically triggered, gas-propelled assassination weapon, turned and fired the fatal shot to the president. " At a later appearance at Beverly Hills High School, Mr. Cooper showed another version of the Zapruder film which he had also plagiarized, this version, plagiarized from Japan's Nippon Television, was still very grainy despite the fact it was in color. After this and other Cooper appearances, word began to gradually spread that he was making a lot of money and defrauding a lot of people with his use and sale of his films. Mr. Hanson even came forward to meet Mr. Cooper face to face on KFI radio (again on The Tom Leykis Show) to publicly state that he (Hanson) and researcher Bob Grodin had long since obtained a clear, colored version of the film. He went on to offer his apologies but that, in reality, the object that appears Greer has in his hands is actually the sun glinting off of the car and a resulting reflection on Agent Kellerman's head. As anyone in the intelligence community could attest, it is absolutely ludicrous that anything like the details of an assassination plot of a head of state, let alone a U.S. president, would be committed to a written form, thereby leaving a paper trail. Mr. Cooper continues to refuse to admit to his asinine and blatant lies regarding the "secret papers" he claims to have seen between 1971 and 1973 which stated that Greer was the main assassin. Whereas many intelligent and well-informed people had listened to and believed Mr. Cooper and his stories, as his tales began to unravel, they sought out the truth on their own. Finally, last year, both Current Affair and Hard Copy aired the original, uncut, colored, crystal-clear version of the Zapruder film. Thus many individuals who had been deceived by Mr. Cooper's dog and pony show were finally able to see how badly they had been taken in. In this extremely clear copy shown on national television, it is clear that Mr. Greer (JFK's limousine driver) broke every security precaution and procedure by slowing the limousine to a crawl at the time of the assassination. This move by Greer most likely was a deliberate act as his personal assignment in the conspiracy to kill the president by the U.S. Military Industrial Complex and others. However, IT IS CLEAR that Mr. Greer's hands never leave the steering wheel. He turns to look back at the President twice. On the second turn, Agent Kellerman leans forward into the picture and and at the same moment, Greer is turned looking back at Kennedy as sunlight shines on Agent Kellerman's forehead and top of his head. As men's hair cream was in style at that time, it is obvious Kellerman's hair is "slick and wet looking" thus creating the bright reflection off the top of his head which Mr. Cooper claims is a weapon. << Illustration omitted >> On many occasions, some of Mr. Cooper's friends and associates have attempted to point out the true nature of this "weapon" to him, only to be met with outright hostility and barrages of insults and accusations that they had been fooled by or were working for the CIA. As many in the community know, being labeled an agent of the CIA by Mr. Cooper in his paranoid musings is considered a badge of honor of sorts as obviously the individual has struck a nerve in Mr. Cooper -- either threatening to expose his lack of veracity, or worse, to enlighten the misled individuals who continue to contribute money to his "cause" by attending his lectures, purchasing his books, tapes, etc. Also at his November 5, 1989 appearance, Mr. Cooper made the ridiculous claim that a recent launching of a satellite which had a propulsion and fuel base of plutonium, was in actuality an Ultra Secret mission and part of the treaty our government made with the "evil' Grays (aliens). He stated that the object was only disguised as a satellite but was in actuality a device which, after it entered Jupiter's atmosphere, would utilize the on-board plutonium to detonate and thereby ignite the gases of Jupiter. This would create a second star along with the Sun. This was necessary, Cooper stated, because the Grays come from a binary star system and through agreements with the U.S. Government, these gray boogey men were going to get a new binary system to travel to or utilize. As usual, Mr. Cooper went on to state that he had seen this in Top Secret paperwork. As if this scenario weren't already hysterical enough, Mr. Cooper went on to state that the paperwork said a name had already been selected for the "new star" . The name would be "Lucifer" . Anyone with a fourth grade education in science would immediately realize they were dealing with either a typical CIA attempt to insert another kook into the UFO community or with some kind of illogical, mentally deranged, far-right Christian striving to manipulate the public into subscribing to his fundamentalist philosophy -- the kind who give good christians a bad name. As evidenced, there were as many things that were not on the level that evening of November 5. Attendees should have been wary when they discovered Mr. Cooper's first fraudulent manipulation upon arrival at the event. When Mr. Cooper appeared on the two L.A. radio talk shows to promote his upcoming event at Hollywood High, he twice stated on KFI and once on KIEV that anyone interested in seeing his Kennedy assassination film (which would prove that Kennedy's limousine driver turned and delivered the fatal shot) was invited to attend the November 5 program FOR FREE. Mr. Cooper stated his belief that everyone had the right as an American to see the truth about who killed their president. Thus, many of the attendees that evening were shocked to find out that a mandatory $15.00 "donation" was due and payable at the door before entry was granted to the event. This is not the only time Mr. Cooper's true colors were displayed. Fans and regular listeners to the old Billy Goodman Happening radio program out of KVEG-AM Las Vegas may remember the evening when Mr. Cooper was a guest (as he was on many occasions) and he took an on-air phone call from a 12-year-old fan of Mr. Goodman's show by the name of Brian Enmann (sp.). This boy, as was clear to Mr. Cooper since they had previously spoken on the air on several occasions, was a frequent caller to the show and was the founder and president of The Billy Goodman Happening youth group . The young man called to say that on two occasions he had sent Mr. Cooper money for the Kennedy tape and some paperwork he was offering but he was concerned because he had not received anything back. The boy went on to politely inquire if Mr. Cooper had received either of his requests or what the delay might be. Mr. Cooper immediately, as usual, went on the attack and in a raised voice questioned the fact that this young man had ever even sent him any order. When the boy assured him that, yes, he had paid for the package twice, Mr. Cooper, coming from an obviously paranoid and guilt-ridden personality, then asked young Brian, "Did you send the fee in cash?" The young man answered honestly, "Yes, I did." Much to the listener's horror, Mr. Cooper's guilt-ridden reply was, "Well, anyone with half a brain knows never to send cash in the mail." Why is that, Mr. Cooper? Could it be you asked the question so knowingly because the modus operandi of crooks and charlatans like yourself is to open the envelopes, pocket the cash and then deny it was ever received? Then, of course, the standard defense is to question, "Did you send cash?" What a demonstration of Mr. Cooper's great compassion for a young man who until that moment had been one of his greatest supporters. Mr. Cooper ended the conversation by telling young Brian that it was just too bad, but he would suggest that he send his payment in again, this time with his parent's check or a money order. Out of all the money he was already making on his plagiarized tapes, not to mention charging $15.00 a head all across the country to view his "exclusive" tape, it was appalling that Mr. Cooper would treat a supporter in this manner, let alone a youngster. To demonstrate just how delusional and dishonest Mr. Cooper is, let us now bring to light two events of which anyone who closely follows the UFO community will be aware. Let's start with the first appearance of Mr. Robert Lazar on The Billy Goodman Happening show. After an incredible interview with Mr. Lazar, the last caller on the show (as was frequently the case) was Mr. Cooper. Mr. Cooper had a habit of calling in at the end of the show in order to monopolize the last 15 or 20 minutes of the program. Mr. Goodman had complained about this habit of Mr. Cooper's to people who were close to the show. Mr. Cooper called to congratulate Mr. Lazar for coming forward and offer complete support for Mr. Lazar and his efforts. He stated that he had checked out Mr. Lazar through sources of his in the intelligence community and they assured him that Lazar was indeed who he said he was and had worked where he said he worked. Mr. Cooper then declared that he would vouch for Mr. Lazar's story being unequivocally 100 percent true. Lazar then stated in his own words "Gee, Bill, I didn't know you did that." Mr. Cooper replied, "Well, of course we did. We couldn't just believe anyone who came out of the closet like that with your kind of information." As they ended the phone interview, Mr. Cooper again reiterated his support for Bob Lazar and stated that he knew everything that Lazar had said was true. Unfortunately, after Mr. Cooper's initial praises of him, Lazar soon became an additional target for Mr. Cooper's wild machinations. In one of his newsletters, Mr. Cooper gave false claims regarding Lazar's involvement in running a drug lab for the manufacture of methamphetamines. This claim was a complete fabrication. To Mr. Lazar's credit, he did not bother to elevate Mr. Cooper's claim to his level by even attempting to address what could only be described as an insane accusation, regardless of anyone's view as to the veracity of Lazar's story of his involvement at the Top Secret facility in the Nevada desert. It was during Lazar's second appearance on the Goodman Happening that his friend, Gene Huff, called through to state that there were obvious problems between Lazar and Mr. Cooper and some of their information seemed to contradict each other's. As listeners of the show will remember, Mr. Cooper flew into a tirade, stating that he demanded Bob Lazar appear on the radio show to contradict what Gene Huff had said because there was absolutely no disagreement between them or their respective information. At this point, Mr. Huff remarked that a scientist working at the Groom Lake site would obviously have a virtually infinite amount of personal knowledge about what was going on there as opposed to a former naval petty officer who had only worked with Naval Intelligence for a short time as a briefing team member; and at that, as only an audio-visual department aid for the briefing team. At this, Mr. Cooper became even more irate and denied knowing where Huff was coming from. As he is known to do, Mr. Cooper immediately began to accuse Huff and Billy Goodman of setting him up. He then repeated his demand that Lazar appear on Billy Goodman's show to meet him one on one so they could "go at it." Many of you remember what occurred on the next evening of Billy's show. Mr. Lazar was the first caller to get through to Mr. Goodman. Lazar stated that he had not put Gene up to the call the night before, and was in fact asleep and thus not even aware that Gene was calling. Mr. Lazar tried to cut back on some of the criticisms Mr. Huff had made the previous night. It was known, however, to many of those behind the scenes of Mr. Goodman's show as well as those in the inner circle of UFO researchers, that many appeals had been made the previous night and that morning to Huff, Lazar and Cooper to please not air this type of dirty laundry as it gives everyone in the UFO community a bad name. In actuality, what Mr. Huff had stated the night before was indeed true as Mr. Lazar had several problems with some of Mr. Cooper's facts, as well he should have. Nevertheless, for the sake of the UFO community Mr. Lazar capitulated and apologized to Mr. Cooper on the air, stating that he hoped everyone would be able to get along so the investigation on this issue could proceed, because the last thing this community needed was to be involved in yet another dispute between researchers. So, again, it was Lazar who made the effort to patch up this delicate situation and Mr. Cooper who approached it with a rabid, foaming-at-the mouth attitude. The second area in which Mr. Cooper has frequently displayed his awesome powers of inconsistency is in regard to his Top Secret "Bible". Some of the UFO community will note that when Mr. Cooper first appeared in public with his revelations, he produced a paper consisting of five papers concerning information of a Top Secret nature that he had seen while working in his division of Naval Intelligence between 1971 to 1973. In this paperwork, Mr. Cooper stated that he was privy to information on a variety of issues. Although the paperwork consisted of a scant five pages at Mr. Cooper's "coming out party", contrary to Mr. Cooper's repeated statements he issues each time he produces a new addendum to the file that IT WAS THE END - he had finally finished it, the document is now in excess of 100 pages, and no doubt this figure will increase even after this paper is produced. Of course, many of Cooper's devotees have willingly paid for each addendum in the mistaken belief that they had the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Mr. Cooper also stated for the record on many occasions, that this paperwork that he had originally seen was smuggled out of Top Secret files in his lunchbox, a statement he reiterated in his book 'Behold a Pale Horse.' If this is true, no matter what your feeling or what your view concerning an individual interested in this subject, Mr. Cooper broke the law and Mr. Cooper should be responsible for espionage if these Top Secret papers were indeed stolen. Also, if these papers were truly in his possession after smuggling them out, why hasn't he copied them and distributed them to others? None of the paperwork that Mr. Cooper extracts from his Top Secret treasure chest is new as it has been revealed before and is almost always the property of other researchers. Another item of interest is regarding Mr. Cooper's prosthesis. During his Hollywood High School seminar and other presentations, he has stated that he lost his leg when two government agents in a large black car ran him off a cliff while he was riding his motorcycle. He stated that due to blood loss and the extent of damage to his leg, it had to be amputated. In an attempt to verify any of the claims made by Mr. Cooper during his Hollywood High seminar, an investigation was conducted by private investigators which encompassed looking into the accident itself and how Mr. Cooper lost his leg. It is interesting to note that in the report made at the hospital regarding his accident, as well as in subsequent reports made by law enforcement personnel, in spite of the fact Mr. Cooper made a brief mention of his big black car scenario, the law enforcement officers made it clear that Mr. Cooper reeked of alcohol and it was obvious that the story was fabricated by Mr. Cooper to protect himself. In actuality, their reports state that Mr. Cooper had been involved in an accident that was self-inflicted due to his being in what obviously had to be a very drunken state the previous night in order for him to still be smelling of alcohol the following day. However, by Mr. Cooper's own admission, and again in contradiction of his prior and subsequent statements, Mr. Cooper would have everyone believe that this running off the road was done by government agents in retribution for some infraction he committed by going forward to the public with his information. The interesting thing here is that Mr. Cooper, on many occasions, including on The Billy Goodman Happening, has stated emphatically that the government *does not* practice revenge. Which is it, Mr. Cooper? Another interesting connection with alcohol and blind accusations being flung out on the airwaves, was Mr. Cooper's attack on Capt. Bill English on the Billy Goodman Happening, resulting in a legal dispute over slanderous comments made about English by Mr. Cooper. Mr. Cooper again demonstrated his lack of class by making wild accusations about English, whom he had previously supported. It is interesting to note that Mr. Cooper attempted to portray Capt. English as a desperate alcoholic and thus one who should be discredited and disbelieved. Mr. Cooper's ploy of attacking others' credibility by accusing them of alcoholism is ironic because Mr. Cooper himself is a long-time sufferer of the same disease. This affliction is undoubtedly at least partially responsible for his delusions of grandeur. Many of those who are familiar with Mr. Cooper or have heard him speak, know that he generally will arrive at the lecture or seminar reeking obviously of hard alcohol. Many have noted that during the intermission or after lectures, the smell of alcohol is present in the air up to six feet away from Mr. Cooper at any one time. The most recent demonstrations of this in Southern California occurred during his presentation at the Los Angeles UFOrum meeting last year and again this year at a presentation in San Diego. Also during this San Diego meeting, Mr. Cooper, in an inebriated state, started a brawl between himself and another UFO researcher by publicly taking a swing at him. Additionally, he has left many drunken threats and paranoid ramblings on assorted answering machines of others in the UFO community. It is also a fact that he has been the subject of several law enforcement investigations concerning complaints of domestic violence against his wife, both while he was a former resident of California and now several times in Arizona where he currently resides. The accusations and attacks by Mr. Cooper on all who dare to disagree with him spew forth from him in a seemingly never-ending stream. As was so clearly noted by reporter George Knapp of KLAS-TV in Las Vegas in his program 'UFO's: The Best Evidence', these individuals are immediately labeled by Mr. Cooper as frauds, phonies and/or members of the Central Intelligence Agency or the government complex desiring to discredit him. John Lear, Don Ecker, Vicki Cooper, Bob Lazar, Gene Huff, Budd Hopkins, Stanton Friedman, Bill Moore, Jaime Shandera, George Knapp, Craig Hewlett, Linda Moulton Howe, Tony Pelham, Bruce Maccabee and a multitude of others (with the list growing daily), have all been labeled by Mr. Cooper as frauds and agents of the CIA. The incredible thing is that some of these individuals Mr. Cooper labels as intelligence agents, were some of his biggest supporters in the beginning. This is especially true of Mr. Lear, who was instrumental in bringing Mr. Cooper out and introducing him to the UFO community. One story you may be familiar with is when Mr. Cooper, as usual, made an ass of himself in an interview discussing the subject of O.H. Krill . The origin of the O.H. Krill document is well known in the UFO community It was originally put together by UFO researcher John Grace who heads the Nevada Aerial Research Organization. Grace, as well as John Lear, have stated that they selected the title as an inside joke. One evening during a television interview of Mr. Cooper, Lear overhead Mr. Cooper use the O.H Krill name and mention the fact that he had first seen this document while working for the Office of Naval Intelligence in the early 1970's. As Mr. Lear has related, he immediately pulled Mr. Cooper aside and quietly told him, "Bill, O.H. Krill is a joke! John Grace and I used Krill from Bob Emenegger's special 'UFO's: It Has Begun' because of a woman who allegedly channeled an entity named CRYLLL. Grace just pulled the O.H. out of thin air!" Mr. Cooper instantly unleashed his hostile self and in his usual denial of reality, replied that Lear was mistaken, insisting that he had seen it in 1972 while working for Naval Intelligence. Although Mr. Cooper tries to portray his job for Naval Intelligence as something quite illustrious, in reality his duties consisted of nothing more than setting up audio-visual equipment and passing out paperwork to the Pacific Fleet briefing teams. Another of Mr. Cooper's inconsistencies is that he is continuously publicly declaring his full support of individuals and their information after he reveals that his sources have given them and their information a full clearance after a thorough "background check". Inevitably, Mr. Cooper later turns on these individuals and declares them a fraud and/or an intelligence agent after they have had some disagreement with him or he with them regarding some particular area of their research. Of particular interest is the fact that Mr. Cooper's claimed intelligence contacts are obviously as lacking in credibility as he is since their "thorough background checks" inevitably prove wrong. This clearly illustrates that Mr. Cooper's connections to the intelligence exist in his mind only. In concluding this point, when one of the authors had a recent dinner with a professional investigative journalist a serious, yet somewhat humorous observation was made. When the subject came up of one of Mr. Cooper's drunken acts at a recent UFO event, the author stated to the journalist, "You know, you're about the only person I know who is yet to be labeled a fraud, phony or agent of the secret government by Bill Cooper." To which the journalist replied, "Yes, but the day that Mr. Cooper shines his spotlight of accusations of being a fraud or government agent on me is the day I will feel satisfied that I've reached the level of respect and dignity of all the others on his "list" . *Then* I'll know I've _really_ made it big." This treatise could go on to fill a book but it is the purpose of the authors to expose this man for what he is, or shall we say, WHAT HE IS NOT. Mr. Cooper is most definitely not any kind of serious researcher or someone truly involved with or having contacts in the intelligence community as he would have everyone believe. A few Top Secret papers supposedly smuggled out in a lunchbox and a few stolen and altered items of others' research even after the ladling on of a gravy of incredible embellishments, do not a UFO or government-coverup researcher make. In summation, Mr. Cooper's current status is persona non grata in the UFO community. His audiences these days can best be placed into two categories. The first consists of those who are well-meaning, but unfortunately innocent and therefore gullible individuals who are newly interested in this field. The second group consists of those individuals who either know or are basically familiar with the Bill Cooper story and are aware of his reputation as a violent, fragile personality, but for their own reasons continue to attend his lectures to hear yet another fabricated chapter be added to his oft-times "complete" life story. His attraction can be compared to that of a Circus Freak Show. One never knows what to expect to exit from his mouth, whether it's a 180 degree turn on a subject from a previous lecture (witness his revelation that the Roswell crash was not an extra-terrestrial craft because the "hieroglyphics" found on the crossbeams were actually Japanese writing), or some brand new jewel that he somehow "forgot" to mention from his long and distinguished career as "AV Boy" for a Naval Briefing Team. In conclusion, if anyone in the UFO community best demonstrates the qualifications for a person involved in spreading disinformation, it is Mr. Cooper. The sad thing is that it's not even disinformation of a government agent, just the ramblings of a pathetic, disillusioned, paranoid alcoholic. As investigative reporter George Knapp stated in a letter to Michael Corbin (director of ParaNet), "Bill Cooper wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit him in the ass..." This pathological liar only serves to hurt the UFO issue as a whole as Mr. Cooper is the perfect poster boy for those skeptics who view the field as ripe with charlatans and crackpots. We will end this paper on what we regard as perhaps the most intriquing of items on Mr. Cooper. During a very recent talk-show interview in the state in which he now resides (Arizona), Mr. Cooper stated the following (unedited): Cooper: "Number 1: People aren't capable of performing the very basic thought processes that are necessary to bring that about. Number 2: They don't want to know what the true facts are because then that makes them responsible to do something about it and they don't want to be responsible. And Number 3: As long as they have a chicken in the pot and T.V. in their living room they're not going to give a damn about *anything* . So, really what I've wrestled with the most in the past year is whether or not to join the other side, to tell you quite frankly, because I don't want to be one of the cattle being led to slaughter. Somebody's going to be led to slaughter and if they're going to do it willingly and stupidly, then I want to be one of the ones with the cattle prod, you know? I have to say that and I struggle with it all the time and so far haven't done it, but if it turns out that the common man is really that stupid on a day-to-day basis, then it means that those who are manipulating the world and controlling the world are absolutely right and somebody has to herd these people and take care of them or they'll destroy the world." Interviewer: "Well, one question that comes to mind right here for me is..the other side, on the inside know what you're talking about, but do you or have you had opportunities to literally do anything for the other side -- work for the other side or whatever or have you had offers, uh, as being an asset in any way, or you may not even say that if it had occurred." C. : "No, no, if that were the case I would be the first one to say it. When I was working for the Office of Naval Intelligence, of course I was working for the other side. ALL the intelligence organizations are working for the other side to bring about a One World government. That started on the day that Truman signed the U.N. Treaty and the U.N. Participation Act and that's what the whole National Security Act -- that's what it was created for, to bring about One World government in secret and that's why they'll -" I. : "It looks like we're heading that way right now anyway." C. : "We certainly are. No, no one's ever offered, uh, to give me any money or to, uh, for me to do anything for them, or - I. : "Bring this man in out of the cold, the old scenario." C. : "Uh, no, but I'd be willing to sit down and talk with them about it." (Laughs). I. : "I'm sure you would." C. : "I certainly would.' In parting, some may wonder why Mr. Cooper has not been approached by the other side, as he obviously would _love_ to join them. Mr. Cooper and readers of this expose can solve this puzzle by asking themselves, if an individual is doing any number or even one of the types of things Mr. Cooper has done why in the world would the other side ask an idiot like that to join its ranks? This is especially a ridiculous consideration when Mr. Cooper is already doing so well at making any of our side who still attend his lectures, call his 900 number, or subscribe to his newsletter look like complete fools by the fact they are still giving this lunatic their hard-earned money. SHAME ON YOU Mr. Cooper for wishing you could wield the cattle prod on the other side someday, but please be expedient in doing so. Then it will be crystal clear to your few remaining devotees which side you are really on. And then when THINGS do come down we'll have a great target to first SET OUR SIGHTS ON! (If you know what we mean!) ** End of File ** Don --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14398 alt.conspiracy:24122 sci.skeptic:40683 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Entirely Unpredisposed - Martin S. Kottmeyer Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:51:03 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.015103.8607@bilver.uucp> Lines: 640 AREA:UFO (3458) Wed 10 Mar 93 18:04 By: David Bloomberg To: All Re: Entirely Unpredisposed --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am in regular contact with Mr. Kottmeyer. If anybody has any intelligent questions they would like to pose to him, I will forward them. He has already indicated that he would answer questions according to whatever time he has available. Anybody who wishes the full file can FReq it from 2430/2112 as UNPREDIS.ZIP =========================================================================== Entirely Unpredisposed The Cultural Background of UFO Abduction Reports copyright (c) 1990 by Martin S. Kottmeyer [Reprinted from "Magonia" Magazine, Jan. 1990, by permission of the author] Culture is an admixture of repetition and variation, convention and creativity, signals and noise. It is ever new and forever old as humanity relives old dreams and nightmares or forgets and forges new ones. Part of the delight of history is the recognition that however new a given event appears, traces of the past can generally be discerned. If the UFO phenomenon is an artifact of culture one would reasonably expect that cultural antecedents could be recognized for the major features it presents. Extraterrestrials, however, should be independent of culture and if they are newly arrived their characteristics should represent a discontinuity with the past. Abduction phenomenon students have recently offered some provocative claims that such discontinuities exist. Implicitly they are claims for the weakness of the sociopsychological paradigm and the converse power of the ETH. David Jacobs argues that the imagery of the UFO phenomenon sprang up _ex nihilo_ in 1947. Budd Hopkins states that the complex, controlling, physically frail beings of abduction reports bear no similarity to "traditional sci-fi gods and devils". Thomas E. Bullard makes the rather more modest claim that the keystone of the abduction mystery, the interrupted journey of Betty and Barney Hill, had no cultural sources from which to derive the experience they reported. They were, to quote him, "entirely unpredisposed" since they were the first. These are forceful challenges to the proponent of the cultural origin of UFO phenomena. They have "Falsify me, I dare you" plastered on them. Can it be demonstrated that culture predisposed people to have these experiences? The boldest claim is the one by UFO historian David Jacobs. Jacobs states "there was no precedent for the appearance or the configuration of the objects in 1947" in popular science fiction films, popular science fiction or popular culture in general. They did not resemble the fanciful rocketships or earthly space travel contraptions in the SF literature. [1] There is a trivial sense in which this is simply wrong. Disc- shaped spaceships have a number of precedents in popular culture. They appear in Buck Rogers as far back as 1930. [2] They appear in a Flash Gordon comic strip in 1934.[3] The science fiction illustrator Frank R. Paul was drawing saucer-like craft as early as 1931 and did so repeatedly.[4] Other SF illustrators also utilized the disc form long before 1947.[5] But these are inevitable coincidences in a large body of artistic creativity. The saucer form was not the dominant shape of spaceships in the culture; it was the rocket. In this larger sense Jacobs is correct that one would expect an outbreak of ghost rockets over America if the images of SF were the determinant of what people should be imagining. They weren't. The cultural source of the UFO lies in a journalistic error. Kenneth Arnold's report of mysterious supersonic objects flying near Mount Rainier was a sensation that made front-page news across the nation. The speed was far beyond that of the planes of the era and no one publicized the flight in advance. It was an exciting puzzle. The shape of the objects Arnold saw is hard to describe in a word or two. It wasn't like a plane or rocket, or even a disc. When the newsman Bill Bequette wrote the story up for the news services he recalled Arnold's describing the motion of the objects as like a saucer if you skip it across the water. Jumbling the metaphorical intent of the description, Bequette labeled the objects "flying* saucers", Arnold said the term arose from "a great deal of misunderstanding". The public, however, did not know that. No drawing accompanied the story. People started looking for flying saucers and that is exactly what they found. They reported flat, circular objects that look like flying saucers sound like they should look like. Equally important: no one reported objects like the drawing in Arnold's report to the Air Force.[6] The implications of this journalistic error are staggering in the extreme. Not only does it unambigu- ously point to a cultural origin of the whole flying saucer phenomenon, it erects a first-order paradox into any attempt to interpret the phenomenon in extraterrestrial terms: Why would extraterrestrials redesign their craft to conform to Bequette's error? This paradox is especially bad news for abduction reports. By Bullard's tally 82% of craft descriptions fit the flying saucer stereotype.[7] This is far in excess of the approximately one- third portion saucers and discs make up in a more general population of UFO reports.[8] If imagination and cultural expectations play a larger role in abductions than in more reality-constrained misinterpretations of mundane stimuli, then this fact makes sense. The flying saucer mythos perfectly predisposes us to include flying saucers in our fantasies and nightmares about extraterrestrials. This takes care of the craft, but what of the entities? Budd Hopkins emphasizes that they are complex, controlling, physically frail beings who are forced by survival needs to search out and abduct earthlings. This is quite unlike the godly aliens of _Close Encounters of the Third Kind_, the kindly, spiritual alien of _The Day The Earth Stood Still_, or the aliens of _War of The Worlds_ who "mindlessly devour and conquer us", as Hopkins sees it. Nothing by his abductees "in any way suggests traditional sci-fi gods and devils", he wants us to know.[9] Hopkins's descriptions leave something to be desired. The godly aliens of CE3K trash the home of the little boy Barry and they terrorize his mother as they abduct him. The disrupt the life and mind of Neary. Kindly and spiritual Klaatu happens to have a robot with him who is all business. His offer to leave a police force is eminently pragmatic. The comparison is frivolous in either case since any UFO aliens matching these descriptions go into the contactee file. Hopkins professes it is instructive that his abductees are not devoured like in War of the Worlds, but how would a myth devour a person? That Hopkins is ignorant of science fiction would be apparent to any fan by the fact that he used the repellent phrase "sci-fi' - a sure sign of an outsider to the genre.[10] War of the Worlds is one of the recognized masterpieces, yet it is grossly evident Hopkins never read it or he would be co-opting Wells as an unconscious abductee. Far from "mindlessly" devouring us, Wells endowed his aliens with "intellects vast, cool and unsympathetic. The did not devour people but took the fresh and living blood of other creatures and injected it into their own bodies. His aliens had "no extensive muscular mechanism". The invaders also brought along for provisions bipeds with flimsy siliceous skeletons and feeble musculature.[11] There are multiple similarities to other abduction narratives - an immense pair of dark eyes possessing an extraordinary intensity, a mouth without lips, greyish colour of skin, the skin glistening like wet leather, telepathy. They are also "absolutely without sex". Add to this that the alien craft was circular, made a peculiar humming sound, and when they flew the sky would be alive with their lights. In fact Wells's aliens more resemble Hopkins's abducting aliens than most abduction reports, Hopkins further errs in thinking the Wells aliens are mere "satanic monsters".[12] Their motivation is survival. Their world is dying and Earth is their only escape. Ironically, just a couple of pages before Hopkins mangles War of the Worlds he quotes the impressions of an abductee that the aliens are from a society millions of years old that is dying. They desperately need to survive. This places UFO aliens squarely in the main tradition of aliens in SF films. Dying worlds are commonplace in alien invasion movies. It leads the aliens in "This Island Earth" to borrow Earth scientists for their expertise in atomic energy. It motivates the aliens in "The 27th Day" to give Earth people the means of destroying human life. It motivates the "Killers from Space" to operate on a man, extract information from his mind, and compel him to become a spy saboteur. It leads the "Devil Girl from Mars" to abduct healthy males. It similarly motivates the aliens in "I Married a Monster from Outer Space", "The Mysterians", and "Mars Needs Women" to procure females for breeding stock. An astronomer in "Invaders from Mars" theorises the secret operations aliens engage in are motivated by the fact that Mars is a dying world. The aliens in the popular TV series "The Invaders" were also escaping a dying world.[13] The fact is most film aliens have some implicit motivation to their activities. One of the few exceptions I could find was the "so thin - so fragile" aliens of "Target Earth!" and even they don't seem particularly satanic or monstrous.[14] It seems more sensible to flip Hopkins's allegation around. He says nothing about the aliens of UFO abductions resembling "sci-fi". I ask, is there anything about UFO aliens that does not resemble science fiction? An abductee in the 1954 movie "Killers from Space" has a strange scar and a missing memory of the alien encounter that caused it. The mysterious impregnation of women, including virgins, and the subsequent birth of intelligent hybrid children is the theme of the 1960 film "Village of the Damned". Brain implants are featured in the 1953 movie "Invaders from Mars"[15] Take a look at the creatures of the 1957 movie "Invasion of The Saucer Men". The bald, bulgy-brained, googly-eyed, no-nosed invaders match the stereotype of UFO aliens delineated by Bullard to an uncanny extent. It prompts worries that abductees are not only plagiarists, but have bad taste as well.[16] "Earth versus the Flying Saucers" (1956) also precedes UFO lore in featuring an abduction in which thoughts are taken. Saucerians abduct a general, make his head transparent, and suck out the knowledge to store it in an Infinitely Indexed Memory Bank. Though the frequency of the motif in abduction narratives can be laid to psychological factors in the personalities of abductees, one cannot rule out the movie enculturating the association. Years from now we may have an epidemic of implanted parasites, potential chest-bursters, due to the influence of the movie "Alien" starting such an association. Presently such a report would be too suspect, but eventually some puzzling medical oddity might be associated with such a delusion and the UFO lore would evolve in new directions. It could just as easily never happen because of the vagaries of social factors. In a more esoteric vein even abduction narrative structure has science fiction predecessors. Thomas Bullard has discovered a consistent structural order to events within abduction reports. There are eight types of events and they are preferentially ordered in this manner: (i) capture, (ii) examination, (iii) conference, (iv) tour, (v) otherworldly journey, (vi) theophany, (vii) return, (viii) aftermath. No abduction has every event, but events avoid appearing out of this sequence. Abductees aren't generally given a tour of the ship before examination or conference and so forth. Bullard considers the arrangement occasionally arbitrary from a rational standpoint. The fidelity of reports to this arrangement seems, to Bullard, to indicate these are real experiences. He would expect the elements of the story to get jumbled if they were subjective.[17] What, then, are we to make of the 1930 comic strip story "Tiger Men of Mars" in the series "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century"? It adheres to Bullard's structure most excellently. Wilma experiences: (i) capture by a giant clamp leading into a spherical alien spaceship, (ii) examination while lying on a table in an electro- hypnotic trance, (iii)conference with a subordinate and then a leader, (vi) theophany while gazing at the Earth from an off-world vantage point, (vii)return, In the aftermath there is an instance of what Bullard calls "networking" in the aliens abducting Wilma's sister, Sally. There is also an apocalyptic finale in which the Martian moon Phobos crashes on Mars.[18] Some idea of the structural impressiveness of this narrative can be gained from observing that only one abduction in the UFO literature has a greater number of these elements in the correct order. Two abductions have the same number of elements. The other 163 correctly ordered abductions have 5 or fewer elements in them.[19] Obviously the presence of structure does not prove the cartoon is objectively real, and it must be granted that a long-forgotten cartoon is not a credible influence on present-day abductions. It is more likely they share an intuitive ordering principle subconsciously acquired from exposure to drama. A relabeling of Bullard's elements should make the logic clearer: (i) character introduced, (ii) peril and conflict, (iii) explanation and insight, (iv) good will and attempt to impress, (v) excitement, (vi) climax, (vii) closure, (viii) sequel. Examination, as the peril, is the downer part of the story and would ruin a happy ending if sequenced late. Even in deviant cases the examination is never put near the end. Pragmatically, putting theophany before examination might instill trust in the abductee and make testing go better. Dramaturgically, however, such an order would be stupid since it ruins the intensity of the peril and spoils the joy of the ending and the sense of closure. Faceless terror makes for more primordial fear. Dramatically it would be unwise to reduce the alienness before the peril by conferring with the aliens or have them host a tour. It is also bad behaviourism to place aversive stimuli after sending one's signal - the message and information in the conference, tour and theophany. The otherworldly journey is a form of excitement and can appear any place between the capture and climax. Most of Bullard's deviant cases involve the otherworldly journey not staying in the place he deemed correct, To put it simply, Bullard's correct order is the right way to tell a story. At the very least, his evaluation that "Objectivity wins a big one" on the issue of structure is problematic.[20] The capture event in "Tiger Men of Mars" features an incredible kid-inventor-type gizmo - a giant mechanical clamp which grabs the whole body of the victim. It's a grand cartoony contraption appropriate to its venue in a Buck Rogers situation. How odd, then, to note that such a thing appears in the Steven Kilburn abduction in "Missing Time". It seems such a ridiculously impractical thing for a technologically superior culture to bother with, yet Hopkins includes it with not an indication of amusement. One can understand it in a 1930s cartoon, or even in an early script draft of "War of the Worlds". At least someone realised it should be deleted. But in a real abduction? Lawson's suggestion that Kilburn was reliving a forceps-aided birth makes tons more sense.[21] I could have more fun demolishing Hopkins's claim, but it really doesn't deserve more attention than this. Time to turn to the last of our three historical allegations. Thomas E. Bullard opens his massively impressive study of the abduction mystery with a discussion of the legendary status of the "interrupted journey" of Betty and Barney Hill. It was the most sensational UFO story of its time; a nasty little horror story which engraved itself on the unconscious of a generation. The growth of UFO abduction reports subsequent to their appearance on the cultural scene is unsurprising. The thing that puzzles Bullard is how _they_ got the idea. He points out that occupant reports were obscure items known only to the initiated in 1961. He believes the Hills had no knowledge they could construct a nightmare of this sort from, so he asserts "the odds are strong that the Hills went to their interrupted journey entirely unpredisposed." It is a "continuing mystery" how they originated it and as long as it is unaccounted for "the cultural tradition explanation starts off handicapped."[22] Part of the mystery is solved by a careful reading of "The Interrupted Journey." It is on record that Betty Hill had read Donald Keyhoe's book "The Flying Saucer Conspiracy" shortly before she be an having nightmares of abduction. Keyhoe's book cites nearly a dozen occupant cases. Most of them are outright rejected by Keyhoe. These include such farces as zebra-striped spacemen, an elephant-faced entity, 6- armed, 13-ft tall entities, space-man monster tales and contactee hoaxes. Keyhoe practically endorses, however, a Pearl Harbor report of a flyer who frightfully proclaimed "I actually saw him" - the saucer pilot. Note the pronoun is him, not it. No doubt this would have impressed Betty as similar to Barney's experience of seeing the saucer's occupants.[23] Keyhoe also expresses a measure of acceptance of a series of UFO stories from Venezuela involving hairy dwarfs. One of these serves as a closer starting point of Betty Hill's nightmares. Two peasants first spot a bright light like a car on the nearby road. Hovering a few feet from the ground is a round machine with a brilliant glow coming from the underside. "Four little men" come out and try to drag Jesus Gomez toward the object. There is a struggle and the evidence of that struggle gives it a special credibility in Keyhoe's eyes. Keyhoe next cites the experience of Jesus Paz who was found unconscious after being set upon by a hairy dwarf. He follows this with Jose Parra's sighting of six small hairy creatures by a saucer and their transfixing him with a bright light. [24] In Betty Hill's nightmare she must fight for consciousness and she finds herself surrounded by four short men. Barney is unconscious and is being dragged by another group of men. They numbered eight to eleven when standing in the middle of the road. They are taken from the car to a glowing saucer-shaped craft. The behaviour of the aliens is very professional and businesslike and they are dressed in somewhat military style. They are not frightening per se. This is very much in keeping in tone with Keyhoe's speculations that aliens were making a scientific study of the planet out of "neutral curiosity' or as a prelude to a mass landing.[25] This takes us up to the saucer, but it doesn't give us much idea what should take place inside. Neutral curiosity would probably lead to some sort of examination or questioning and this pretty much does happen. Yet there is that terror of the needle in the navel and the business with the star map. Nothing in Keyhoe predisposes one to those sorts of things. Movies provide another cultural source of expectations and imagery. Bullard himself notes a pair of movies from the fifties have medical motifs in an alien abduction setting: "Invaders from Mars" (1953) and "Killers from Space" (1954). Though he understands the significance of the second one on some abduction cases subsequent to the Hills, he overlooked the significance of "Invaders From Mars".[26] Near the climax of the film a woman and a boy are abducted by mutants from Mars and taken to a room within a saucer. The woman is placed on a rectangular table which slides into the scene. She struggles briefly till a light shines on her face which causes her to relax and lose consciousness. A needle surrounded for part of its length by a clear plastic sheath is aimed at the back of her neck. A device at the end of the needle is going to be surgically implanted there.[27] In "The Interrupted Journey" we are dealing with a woman and a man abducted by aliens described as mongoloid - itself a type of mutation. In the original nightmare Betty compares the noses of the aliens to Jimmy Durante. This is a very apt description of the noses of the mutants in "Invaders From Mars". Barney, oddly, didn't see the Durante noses of the aliens. Perhaps it was in deference to Barney's on-the-scene memories that this detail was edited out by Betty in her hypnosis sessions. It may also be that the big nose prompted jokes after the speeches she gave and her unconscious took the opportunity to remove the annoying detail when Benjamin Simon unleashed it.[28] There are some preliminary tests of a routine sort. Betty then lies down on an examining table. Needles are placed on various parts of her body including the back of the neck. Then appears a very long needle, longer than any needle she's seen before, and it is placed into her navel. She experiences great pain. The examiner puts his hand over her eyes, rubs, and the pain stops. The parallel to the calming light in "Invaders from Mars" is readily apparent. I am indebted to Al Lawson for calling attention to the fact that the needle-in-the-navel motif owes its origin to imagery appearing during the Martian operating room episode. Shortly after the operation begins, the camera cuts to a high-angle view of the surgical theatre. At least, that is what it is supposed to be. The image has an ambiguous character in terms of scale and content. You are supposed to interpret it as a view of the architecture of the interior of the saucer with the dominant structure being a tubular metal beam or conduit connecting ceiling to floor. It bears a stylistic similarity to the neck implanter in having a clear plastic sheath surrounding the upper half of its length. The ambiguity of the image, however, admits an alternative interpretation. The tubular metal beam and plastic sheath becomes a hypodermic needle. Lighting of the floor suggests the curvature of an abdomen. The place where the floor and tube intersects is surrounded by a round indentation. It's the navel. In the brief snatch of time the image is seen, some people will miss the intended interpretation and see a huge hypodermic needle has been thrust into the woman's navel. Some have seen Betty Hill's needle-in-the-navel incident as revealing a medical procedure that did not exist at the time of the encounter. In fact the aliens' reference to the procedure as a pregnancy test is quite contemporary for the period. Amniocentesis has existed as a medical procedure since the late l9th century. Back then the needle was inserted in the abdomen to draw off amniotic fluid when there was too much pressure during a pregnancy. In the late 1950s, however, it became a testing procedure to monitor preganacies of women with Rh-negative blood who might have blood group incompatibility. Subsequent to 1966 amniocentesis became a genetic screening procedure. Comparison of Mrs. Hill's ordeal to laparoscopy procedures suffers in the details.[29] There is no conference with the aliens in "Invaders from Mars" and you might not expect the star map scene to originate there, but dreams have an odd penchant for distortion and condensation of memory materials. Earlier in the movie the boy and woman have a meeting with a scientist at an observatory. This character, Dr. Kelson, has a large star map on the wall behind him. He points at the map during this meeting and discusses the proximity of Mars to Earth. The most striking thing about this discussion, to the alert movie-goer, is that, while he points to the map as though these two planets are represented on it, in fact there is nothing there where the Earth should be. Kelson is faking it. Any similarity between Kelston's star map and Betty Hill's is almost purely accidental. The paradox they share, however, is not. Betty's sketch has the two planets Kelston's lacks. (Marjorie Fish treats them as stars, ironically. Stars don't have terminators.) But when the alien asks Betty where on the map the Earth is, she relives the movie-goer's puzzlement. She has no idea. The sizes of the planets bear comparison to the planets in the star field in the credits of the film, incidentally. Parenthetically, the script of "Invaders From Mars" has Kelston present a large scrapbook with newspaper columns about saucer activities to the boy before the star map discussion. This was not in the 78-minute video I saw, but an 82-minute "European" version exists that has a longer observatory scene. Does anyone know if this scene was filmed? It might explain the presentation of the large book in Betty's account.[30] [When this film was shown in Britain several years ago there was indeed a scene showing Kelston's UFO scrapbook - J R] The match between "Invaders from Mars" and Betty Hill's nightmares is imperfect and obviously has none of the rigor of a mathematical equation. Dreams and nightmares by their nature are almost never veridical memories. Even if Betty Hill was really abducted, it would be unusual for her nightmares to be a photographic reply of her trauma. The felt emotions would resurface, but it would bear only a metaphoric similarity in its dramatic content. The most one would generally expect is snatches of unique imagery to help in piecing together of the sources the dream spun off from. It is something of a wonder that enough elements exist of this character - the Durante noses, and the navel-needle, and the optical tranquilization idea, and the star map - to make an identification that can be called convincing. Barney's version of events probably owes much to what Betty said in her speeches, but there is one facet which was clearly Barney`s own contribution - the long wraparound eyes of the aliens. Donald Keyhoe emphasised it was "the worst feature" of their ugly faces. It gave them a sinister look. Their hideousness prompted Keyhoe to wonder what could have caused the Hills to imagine such creatures. It was "never fully explained".[31] Wraparound eyes are an extreme rarity in science fiction films. I know of only one instance. They appeared on the alien of an episode of an old TV series "The Outer Limits" entitled "The Bellero Shield". A person familiar with Barney's sketch in "The Interrupted Journey" and the sketch done in collaboration with the artist David Baker will find a "frisson" of "deja vu" creeping up his spine when seeing this episode. The resemblance is much abetted by an absence of ears, hair, and nose on both aliens. Could it be by chance? Consider this: Barney first described and drew the wraparound eyes during the hypnosis session dated 22 February 1964. "The Bellero Shield" was first broadcast on "10 February 1964. Only twelve days separate the two instances. If the identification is admitted, the commonness of wraparound eyes in the abduction literature falls to cultural forces.[32] Wilder Penfield once proclaimed, "It is far better to be wrong than to bc without an opinion." Penfield showed himself to be a wise scientist in formulating that maxim. Errors are much more fruitful than silence. They goad one into research and discovery. Had Jacobs, Hopkins, and Bullard been cautious and reserved, some of the surprises in this paper would never have surfaced. There are things here about the cultural nature of the UFO phenomenon I would never have suspected. The origin of flying saucers in a journalistic error, especially, is the most deeply cosmic joke to have ever fallen into my life. It may not be the ultimate refutation of the ETH in the minds of everyone, but it will do for me. For that am forever indebted to these fellows. It is my opinion that culture predisposes people to have the sorts of UFO experiences they do to a degree we have yet to fully appreciate. If I'm wrong, my pontifications still won't be in vain. NOTES: 1. Jacobs, David M., "The New Era of UFO Research", _Pursuit_ , no. 78, 1987, p. 50 2. Dille, Robert C. (ed), "The Collected Works of Buck Rogers in the 25th Century", Chelsea House Publishers, 1969, p. 159. 3. Lundwall, Sam J., "Science Fiction: An Illustrated History", Grosset & Dunlap, 1977, p. 107 4. Sadoul, Jacques, "2000 AD: Illustrations from the Golden Age of Science Fiction Pulps", Henry Regnery, 1973, pp. 63, 66, 148. 5. Ibid, pp. 69, 70 6. Steiger, Brad, "Project Blue Book", Ballantine, 1976. Arnold, Kenneth, "How it All Began", in Fuller, Curtis G., "Proceedings of the First International UFO Conference", Warner, 1980 7. Bullard, Thomas E., "UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery. Volume 1: Comparative Study of Abduction Reports." Fund for UFO Research, 1987, p. 196. 8. Story, Ronald D., "Encyclopedia of UFOs", Dolphin, 1980, pp. 330-4 9. Hopkins, Budd, "Intruders", Random, 1987, p. 192. 10. Nicholls, Peter, "The Science Fiction Encyclopedia", Dolphin, 1979, p. 207. 11. Wells, H. "The War of the Worlds" 12. Hopkins, op. cit., pp. 189-90. 13. Warren, Bill, "Keep Watching the Skies: American Science Fiction Movies of the Fifties" (2 vols), McFarland, 1982. Naha, Ed., "The Science Fictionary", Wideview, 1980; Hardy, Phil, "The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction Movies", Woodbury, 1984, p. 180 14. Warren, op. cit. p. 187. 15. Bullard, op. cit., p. 14. Naha, op. cit. p. 218 16. Rebello, Stephen, "Selling Nightmares: Movie Poster Artists of the Fifties", Cinefantastique, March, 1988, p. 42 17. Bullard, op. cit., pp. 47-53, 372 18. Dille, op. cit. pp. 142-5. 19. Bullard, op. cit. pp. 54-5 20. Bullard, op. cit. p. 372 21. Hopkins, Budd: "Missing Time", Richard Marke, 1981, p. 77. Warren, op. cit., p. 153. "Magonia", No. 10, 1982, pp. 16-7 22. Bullard, op. cit. pp. i-ii, 275, 365 23. Fuller, John G., "The Interrupted Journey: Two Lost Hours Aboard a Flying Saucer", Dell, 1966, pp. 45-9. Keyhoe, Donald E., The Flying Saucer Conspiracy", Fieldcrest, 1955, pp. 63-64, 204-5. 24. Keyhoe, op. cit., pp. 240-6. 25. Fuller, op. cit, p. 343-4. Keyhoe, op. cit., pp. 58, 65,190,208. 26. Bullard, op. cit., p. 14 27. "Invaders From Mars" (1953), video, Fox Hills Video, 1987. 28. Fuller, op. cit., p. 344. Bullard, op. cit., p. 245. 29. Friedman, Stanton and Slate, B. Ann, "UFO Star Base Discovered", UFO Report, 2, no. 1, fall 1974, p. 61. 30. Battle, John Tucker, "Invaders From Mars", Script City, n.d. p. 42 31. Keyhoe, Donald E., "Aliens From Space", Doubleday, 1973, p. 243-5. 32. Schow, David J. and Frentzen, Jeffrey, "The Outer Limits - The Official Companion", Ace, 1986, pp. 170, 384. Bullard, op. cit., p. 243. --- msgedsq 2.0.5 * Origin: The Temples of Syrinx! (1:2430/2112) -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Investigator's Edge - MUFON - Part 2/2 Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 02:01:52 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.020152.9098@bilver.uucp> Lines: 569 Part 2 of 2: ----------- Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 7 in a MUTUAL UFO NETWORK (MUFON) continuing series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE __________________________ There are an estimated 100 million cameras of all types in the hands of the American public. And so there is a grain of validity to the charge by UFO skeptics that, if our claims are valid, then more clear photos ought to surface. Countering this claim to some extent is the fact that most people own a fixed- focus camera, don't know much at all about photography and, if the camera is handy at the crucial moment, usually have slow (100 or 200 ISO) film inserted for daylight shots. Further, the great majority of camera owners don't realize that even the best flash attachment is useful only up to about 40 feet. No doubt, photography professionals smile on New year's night when tens of thousands of flashes are seen in the stands during half-time of the Orange Bowl football game. Another "flash" of ignorance occurred on a summer night in 1989 in Gulf Breeze, Florida. Two young women followed a disc-shaped object near the Pensacola Bay. When it suddenly darted in front of their car, the rider grabbed her camera and snapped a picture - with the flash on. What they received back from the processor was a massive white reflection on the film from the flash bouncing off the inside of the windshield. Occasionally, as in the situation of repeated events in the same locale, you or the witness may have a camera at the ready. In that instance, keep the following in mind: 1. If at all possible, employ a 35 mm camera, as the images on film are likely to be sharper and the background in better perspective. Inexpensive "instamatic" cameras tend to condense the actual distances of structures and terrain in the view-finder. Unless the person is quite adept with the instrument, it is best to leave it on the all-automatic setting, allowing the camera to determine distance and focus. 2. Presuming dark or nearly dark conditions, use film with a high ISO (formerly ASA) rating - at least 400. Film with an ISO of 1000 or 1600 is exclusively for low light. 3. With high-ISO film, the camera is more sensitive to motion, most importantly from the photographers own hands. One way to eliminate that inadvertent motion is to use a tripod. However, as we all know too well, genuinely anomalous objects tend to remain in one location only momentarily. So, setting up a tripod is usually impractical. In it's absence, one can minimize the motion by bracing the camera against something handy - a car roof, fence post, even the shoulder of a fellow witness. 4. Before the expected event, take a few shots of the area as a control. These can assist in the later analysis as well as argue against any claim that the anomalous image in question was hoaxed. 5. Take more than one photograph. If the light/object is moving, shoot at least once with the camera motionless, then also while panning the object (moving the camera to keep the image in the view-finder). 6. If at all possible, capture some fixed structure (e.g. part of a building, a utility pole or tree limb) in the foreground. This greatly assists the analytical effort. If the background consists only of sky, it is virtually impossible to determine the objects size and distance from the photographic image. 7. Afterward, locate the precise spot where the photographer stood. Then, carefully measure the distance from that spot to the point(s) of the fixed structure(s) shown in each frame. 8. With the witness' assistance, complete a MUFON form 8, "Photographic Cases". The camera model, it's inherent capacities and that of any accessories, as well as the type of film is critical to document for meaningful analysis. 9. If the photo/videotape was shot at night, take daylight photos of the same scene while standing at the original spot of the witness. 10. Obtain the print(s) and especially the negative(s) from the witness, ensuring that all originals will be returned unharmed. 11. Forward the original photo materials along with the Form 8 and your case report to International case director Walt Andrus. He will forward the film/tape to Dr. Bruce Maccabee or another party appropriate. Copies of all should be sent here for preliminary evaluation. By the way, keep a camera loaded at all times. You never know... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A continuing Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network "Investigator's series for Field ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Edge" No. 8 Investigators "THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE" --------------------------- [Note: This edition of the "Investigator's Edge" is from the January, 1991 issue of "GEORGIA SKYWATCH", published by GEORGIA-MUFON.] GENERAL --------- Things to keep in mind while doing investigations --------------------------------------------------- AIRCRAFT: Have a minimum of three non-flashing running lights; one on each wing tip and one at the rear. Right wing running light is green, left wing running light is red, and the rear running light is white. [Note: many aircraft also have two strobe lights, one mounted on top and on mounted below the fuselage.] There must not be more than one green running light. Blue is not used as a running light. Helicopters have the same general running light configuration as light planes. ATMOSPHERIC TURBULENCE: Can cause an object (that is near the horizon) to look distorted and magnified. AUTOKINETIC MOTION: Eye movement can cause the witness to think a stationary light or object is moving when in fact it is not. Lining the target up with two other stationary reference points can help to determine whether in fact the object is moving. When a witness says the light was moving in jerky motions-- side to side and up and down--suspect the witness is looking at a star. BALL LIGHTENING: Appears hazy or solid, spherical, oval or rod shape. Colors range from red-white with orange being the most common. It can hover, go less than 5 mph or up to 60 mph. It emits a hissing sound and when it explodes an odor of sulfa or ozone is present. It can appear after lightening strikes the ground or in midair. Ball lightening almost always appears during a thunderstorm. DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES: UFO investigators are looking very hard for consistent groups of facts, while UFO witnesses are looking for support and counseling. These are two very different objectives and can be the source of conflict between the witness and the investigator. The wise investigator will keep this in mind when dealing with witnesses. DISTANCE: Most witnesses underestimate the actual distance from the observation point to the object. ELECTROMAGNETIC INTERFERENCE: Electromagnetic interference that can cause an automobile's engine to stall and can interrupt the operation of other electrical devices has sometimes been linked to UFO sighting reports. Such occurances are not limited to gasoline engines. Diesel engines such as found in trucks, boats, trains, and bulldozers have also been affected. Similar reports on airplane engines and radar equipment have also been reported. INVESTIGATOR'S DUTY TO THE WITNESS: The UFO investigator must subordinate his or her need to collect UFO information to the needs and interests of the witness. The health and well-being of the witness must ALWAYS come before the collection of UFO evidence and proof. INTERPRETATION OF WITNESS TESTIMONY: The interpretation of both free and regressed witness narratives is BEST acomplished by behavioral psychologists and other professionals skilled in the process. FEELINGS REPORTED BY WITNESSES: Feelings reported by witnesses include: (A) Being watched (B) Looking me over (C) Feeling of being observed (D) Feeling of fear (E) Feeling of anger (F) It was a beautiful experience (G) Felt happy when it happened (H) Felt object responded to witness (I) Felt the object was trying to communicate with witness PHYSICAL EXAMINATION: The number of witness reports which suggest aliens are interested in observing or manipulating the witness's sexual organs and/or otherwise conducting gynecological examinations of the witness appears to be far less than would be euggested by popular reports. More often, witnesses report examination of their heads. HIGH STRANGENESS: When a large number of witness narratives are examined, it quickly becomes obvious that the witness experience is very complicated and full of unknowns. The vast majority of witness accounts describe perceptions and experiences far stranger than any reported by mainstream abduction researchers. Do not rule out what a witness tells you because it has a high strangeness level. Because we do not know what is true, we must not edit testimony or it becomes absolutely worthless. When reporting witness testimony, do not try to make it seem credible and believable. Rather, expose it as it really is. Unless we do this we have no chance at all of getting at the truth. HYPNOSIS: Information from a regressed subject is sometimes used in the context of other evidence, but it is not itself evidence. Because regressed testimony of UFO witnesses cannot currently by confirmed by hard facts, there remains enormous difficulty with trying to use hypnotized testimony as evidence of real events, even when that testimony agrees in particulars among a group of unconnected witnesses. The primary value of hypnosis is as a counseling device. It is recommended that nobody except a professionally trained hypnotist - preferably one with the credentials of a health professional - hypnotize any UFO witness for any reason, and then only for therapeutic purposes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A continuing MUFONET-BBS Network - Mutual UFO Network series for the ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Investigator The Investigator's Edge, Number 9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Note: Article Contributed By Colorado MUFON] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WHAT'S MY TRAFFIC ? January 27, 1991 Civilian aircraft are directed and guided through the skies over the United States from take-off to landing by way of an extremely sophisticated air traffic control system. Much of this system is supported with a network of air traffic control facilities under the auspices of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Here in Colorado, an airliner departing from Denver can expect to be in communications with several facilities during the course of its flight. These air traffic control facilities perform several functions, not the least of which is to assist the pilot in maintaining a safe clearance between other aircraft. The job for both the air traffic controller and the pilot is usually made easier and safer when radar is available. Radar, however, is not a full proof system and by no stretch of the imagination guarantees a pilot or a controller that a vehicle, known or unknown can be identified. In order to acquire a better understanding of just what I mean, let's take a brief minute to educate ourselves about radar. Radar, an acronym from a term originating during World War II, is short for radio detection and ranging. It's an electronic system by which radio waves are bounced off of an object in order to determine its existence and to locate its position in relation to other objects. The radio waves that are transmitted by a radar antenna, when bounced off of an object such as an aircraft are returned to the antenna and through electronic technology "painted" on a cathode ray tube. Unfortunately, target detection is often hampered by "clutter" which is picked up on the radar screen. This "clutter" can be raindrops generated by a thunderstorm, back-scatter from the ground, or even flocks of birds. In order for an air traffic controller to perform his job and detect aircraft more effectively, radar engineers have designed a means by which the "clutter" can be suppressed. Suppressing this "clutter" unfortunately also affects the ability of a controller to see targets on the radar screen. Further advancements in radar technology as well as a necessity to provide more positive identification of aircraft has required that the air traffic system be modified. This modification has meant that aircraft flying in most types of controlled airspace are required by the FAA to have a device which transmits an assigned identification code and altitude information. This device is called a transponder. If you paid a visit to the Denver Center, which is located in Longmont, Colorado, you would have a first hand opportunity to experience how traffic is identified and controlled within the more than 200,000 square mile area under the facility's jurisdiction. An aircraft departing the Denver Stapleton airport would enter the airspace controlled by Denver Center shortly after take-off. Through electronic technology, the aircraft is painted as a target on a cathode ray tube used by the controller. From each symbol he is able to determine the aircraft identification (United 200, Delta 100 etc.), the altitude of the aircraft, and a multitude of other data to assist him with his job. If you were to listen in on his or her conversation, you might hear the pilot's transmission: "Denver Center this is American 3375 at flight level three seven zero (37,000 feet), I have high speed traffic at my 3 o'clock position (to the right of the aircraft) approximately 5 miles, at my altitude, WHAT'S MY TRAFFIC ? " The controller would peer at the scope, notice the American Airlines MD-80 symbol, but see nothing resembling a blip or target anywhere near the aircraft. His response would be: "American 3375, I have no traffic at your 3 o'clock position ". The response from the pilot might be: "Denver Center my traffic is now at my 9 o'clock position, appears to be a black, odd shaped object without any discernible markings moving at a high rate of speed. " The controller might say: " American 3375, I have no traffic at your 9'o'clock position ". With the seemingly endless amount of information available to the air traffic controller, you would think that a situation like this might not be possible. However, this occurs more often than one might think. The target viewed on the CRT at Denver Center is computerized video data and not raw radar. The information is gathered from several radar antennas scattered throughout the state of Colorado and fed into a central computer. It is then displayed as a target symbol on the CRT. If an unidentified aircraft, such as one without a transponder, or one using stealth technology wanders into controlled airspace, a controller may not pick the aircraft up on his scope. There are several reports where aircraft have penetrated controlled airspace without notifying the controlling agency. Aircraft of unknown origin, believe it or not, moving at high rates of speed, maneuvering in a manner not readily associated with anything known to man have been seen by pilots without the benefit of radar identification. In fact, Denver Center recently (December 29, 1990) contacted Colorado MUFON regarding a similar incident reported by a pilot in the airspace above Colorado. We all share the same interest and continue to search for a solution to the UFO enigma. In this instance, we were contacted by a government agency. However, for every incident where government support is freely provided, there are many situations where it is not. This is generally the result of preserving confidentiality, or as a controller recently indicated to me, not being free to release information because of government policy. Never the less, field investigators must pursue every reasonable avenue to gather and document whatever he or she learned for inclusion in the case report and, for the record. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note - This article is a slightly expanded and modified version of an article appearing in the "Colorado MUFON News" , November/December 1990 issue. Also appearing in the same issue is a summary of the incident which is referred to in this article regarding a daytime sighting made by an airline pilot over southern Colorado. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For Field Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network Copyright 1991 Investigators ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE, No. 10 Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AIRCRAFT LIGHTS: An Explanation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ March 2, 1991 Aircraft lights come in different sizes, shapes, and are used for several different purposes. When first developed, aircraft lights were designed to fulfill the same purpose as lights originally installed on boats or ships. A sailor observing a ship moving on the open waters at night found it difficult to determine its direction of travel or its position relative to his own. In the interest of safety, lights were located on the port side (left), starboard side (right), and one at the stern (aft) end of the ship. The colors of the lights were red, green and white respectively. That way an individual observing the ship from a distance would be able to easily determine how the ship was positioned relative to the individual and also determine its direction of travel. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) require that aircraft have position or navigational lights configured in the same manner. As the pilot faces forward in the cockpit, he would find a green light on his right wing tip, a red light on his left wing tip and a white light on the tail. These position lights are required to be on for all operations, ground and flight, between the hours of official sunset and sunrise. Aside from the position or navigational lights, a variety of other lights are found on aircraft which may be of interest to those of us involved in the field of U.F.O. Investigations. Let's take a minute to look at some of these lights, their location on an aircraft and the situations under which they might be used. We need to bear in mind, as we examine these lighting systems, that aircraft vary in size and type of operation. We will therefore restrict our examination to the more common lighting systems associated with conventional aircraft. ANTICOLLISION LIGHTS Anticollision lights are used primarily to assist in assuring that an aircraft is readily seen while on the ground or in flight. These lights are generally mounted in the wing tips not far from the position lights. With most airline operated aircraft these lights are white and are generally of the strobe variety. Another type of anticollision light is red, (strobe, flashing, oscillating or rotating beacon type) and is located on top and/or underneath the fuselage (main body structure) of the aircraft. These lights are generally on for all operations, ground and flight, day and night, below 18,000 feet. At night these lights are kept on regardless of altitude. LANDING LIGHTS The aircraft landing lights are used for both illumination of the landing/ take-off area as well as for collision avoidance in flight. Landing lights, depending on the size and type of aircraft, can be mounted in a number of locations. They can be located in the left and right leading edge of the wings, on the nose gear strut, or in some cases are extended below the wings. In the case of most airline operations these lights are generally on from the time a takeoff clearance is issued until the aircraft reaches 18,000 feet or from 18,000 feet until the aircraft clears the runway after landing. RUNWAY TURNOFF LIGHTS Runway turnoff lights, sometimes referred to as taxi lights, visually assist the pilot at night when maneuvering between the terminal and the runway. These lights are either mounted on the leading edge of the wings, on the nose gear strut or some location which will provide sufficient illumination in front of the aircraft. These lights are rarely operated while the aircraft is in flight unless they are an integral part of the landing light system or unless the pilot deems it necessary for safety reasons (i.e. additional collision avoidance). WING LIGHTS In order to assist the pilot in viewing a section of the wing or engine nacelles (engine enclosures), lights are flush mounted in the fuselage and pointed outward in the appropriate direction. These lights would be operated by the pilot when he wishes to inspect the wing section or engine in the event of an abnormal situation such as icing or structural damage. LOGO LIGHTS Marketing people are always looking for creative ways to advertise or promote a product. With the airline industry, one such creative genius led to the use of logo lights on aircraft. These lights are usually mounted in the horizontal stabilizer (horizontal part of the tail) pointing in the direction of the vertical stabilizer (vertical part of the tail). Besides illuminating the logo on the tail of the aircraft, the pilot uses the logo lights for an additional means of collision avoidance. Most of the airlines require that the logo lights, if installed and operational, be turned on continuously between sunset and sunrise. UTILITY LIGHTS A number of other exterior lights may be installed on an aircraft such as cargo door lights and emergency evacuation lights. The cargo door lights illuminate the area around the cargo compartment and are generally used to assist cargo/ ramp agents in loading cargo into the aircraft. The normal procedure is to extinguish these lights once the cargo operation has been completed. Another set of lights, sometimes called evacuation lights, are used to assist passengers during an emergency evacuation from the aircraft. These are usually flush mounted into the fuselage of the aircraft adjacent to a passenger door or emergency exit. These lights are used to illuminate the evacuation area and are generally set to automatically energize in the event of an emergency. As I indicated early on in this article, most of the light configurations described here are applicable to conventional aircraft. These lighting systems may vary slightly depending on the type of aircraft, the manufacturer, and the kind of operating environment. If, as an investigator, a witness observes a lighting system typical to what was presented here, there is always the possibility that the object may be an aircraft. On the other hand, we need to document, in sufficient detail, the observation regardless of whether it coincides with an aircraft lighting system or not, for the record. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- For MUFON MUFONET-BBS Network - Mutual UFO Network Copyright 1991 Field ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Investigators The Investigator's Edge, No. 11 Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TEMPORAL LOBE EPILEPSY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Epilepsy...a chronic nervous disease, characterized by fits, occurring at intervals and attended by convulsive motions of the muscles and loss of consciousness. So says the dictionary, and the man-on-the-street would agree. The sort of epilepsy described above results from irregular electrical functioning in those parts of the brain that control many of the muscles. As the ability to monitor the brain's electrical activity developed, it became obvious that other parts of the brain are similarly prone to the haphazard currents that produce the physical, convulsive type of epilepsy. Of particular interest to this discussion is epilepsy of the temporal lobes of the brain. These areas control what is often called the "higher functions" of the brain/ mind. That is, "..accessing declarative memory, the conscious or active recall of not only what was learned but when and where it was acquired, and with attributing personal meaning or significance to the constant stream of sensory input." What happens when this portion of the brain suffers an epileptic event? The subject does not thrash about---the temporal lobe doesn't have any connection with the muscles. Instead, he tends to have experiences that could be called mystical or paranormal, a sense of a very special purpose in life, or he imbues unusual events with great and unrealistic meaning. These are not just vague and generalized feelings. Often they are extremely intense and at times are described as "more real than real." In some cases this form of epilepsy is so vivid and frequent that a formal psychiatric and neurological diagnosis of temporal lobe epilepsy is possible. But the usual case seems to present only occasional events. As with any medical condition, the person afflicted is not likely to seek help unless the condition is painful or debilitating. A positive diagnosis is possible, but a negative diagnosis is speculative at best. In other words, it is not within the state of the art of today's medical technology to say definitely that nay given patient does not have temporal lobe epilepsy. Whitley Strieber, author of Communion, Transformation, and Majestic, underwent two series of tests for temporal lobe epilepsy. Both were negative. Per the remarks above, and by his own admission, that still leaves open the option that he does suffer from the condition. But it would indicate that the condition occurs only sporadically, if at all. It is certainly to Strieber's credit that he went to such lengths to preclude a psychiatric foundation for his abduction experiences. In addition to the general symptoms listed above, there exists a set of quite intriguing specific symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy. They are as follows: 1. Paranormal/mystical experiences 2. Enhanced imaginings (especially from childhood) 3. Widening affect 4. Vestibular (floating, low frequency vibration) sensations 5. Anomalous smells 6. Intense episodes of personal meaning With this set of symptoms in mind, I reviewed the three Strieber books related to UFO's and abductions. My goal was to determine if there exists in that body of writing a clearly repeated emphasis on these topics. Communion and it's sequel Transformation can fairly be said to be continuous reiterations of symptoms 1,2,3,4 (floating) and 6. Majestic is a fictionalized rendering of the Roswell crash and it's aftermath. It should be distinguished from the previous two books, which are veridical and autobiographical. One would expect to find that Majestic presents few, if any, of the temporal lobe symptoms. This on the theory that the autobiographical abduction accounts were produced subsequent to epileptic events, but that the deliberate fiction writing would be free of the symptomology. My analysis shows that most of the symptoms are present in greatly reduced intensity in Majestic compared with the previous books. But oddly, symptom 4 is there in complete form, with both floating as well as low frequency vibrations, and so is symptom 5, which is nearly absent in the earlier works, but here erupts repeatedly, indeed, so common are references to these two symptoms in Majestic that I have systematically culled them out of the text and listed them serially below. Perhaps their concatenated, seemingly obsessive use is merely a literary device. certainly Strieber is a master of the thriller, and I will defer to him on this point, but it does seem strained and unnatural to my eye. The simple interpretation of this analysis is that Strieber is clearly suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy. As with everything else in UFOlogy, and particularly the abduction phenomenon, quick judgments are dangerous. Several other optional interpretations are possible, and I will summarize them here with the understanding that in future articles they will be expanded. First, that most if not all persons who have close encounters with UFO's suffer, among a variety of other physiological effects, disruption of the electrical functions of the brain, including the temporal lobe area. because of the peculiarities of the temporal lobe, "flashbacks" can occur throughout life after the initial triggering event. It is unlikely that monitoring of the electrical pulses of the brain would reveal the irregularities associated with clinical diagnosis of temporal lobe epilepsy. Second, it may be that external means of controlling or communicating with the temporal lobe regions is the means by which the aliens deal with abductees. In addition to the positive communications or signals, the process may well include generation of "noise" both during the communication and, per the remarks above, long after the communications. This option may seem absurdly speculative, but in fact it is based on laboratory work that has been carried out for several years. Subjects have had their temporal lobes excited by external electromagnetic radiations, with the result that many of them experience visions and sensations remarkably similar to the standard abduction. This will also be covered in detail in future articles. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MUFONET-BBS network - Mutual UFO network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HANGNAIL, MAYBE! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Contributed by Georgia MUFON] The next time you have one of those UFO sightings...in addition to looking at the UFO...note the time...direction...and stick your arm out straight forward toward the object with hand up fingers apart palm outward. Those aliens will think your waving at them. In reality you will be comparing the size of the craft to the size of your fingernails and determining the azimuth of the craft by seeing how many outstretched hands you can put between the horizon and the craft. Your little finger nail is about the size of an aspirin....and when aimed at the moon will just about cover it. The size of your thumb nail is twice that size. By knowing the distance from your eyes to your outstretched hand (take a yard stick and measure it)...and estimating the distance between you and the object...and using a little trigonometry, it is possible for you to determine the size of the object. Knowing the size of the object can be very helpful in the field investigation to follow. =END= Don --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14400 talk.religion.newage:14408 alt.paranormal:6649 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Mar/Apr93 Orvotron Newsletter - Ashtar on Team effort Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 02:07:31 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.020731.9286@bilver.uucp> Lines: 802 I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself to the computer network system. I am Solinus. I am a multidimensional being and my mission is to help those that I come in contact with on Mother Earth to realize that both she and they have come to a crossroads and it is time to make a choice about negative and positive energies. Many of you have read messages from Kortron and responded. Many more of you have read the conversations, the debates, the bashings going both directions and have remained silent, keeping your opinions to yourselves. This has been my position for quite some time now, but Spirit is now gently prodding me to get involved in a more direct way. Therefore, I wish to make myself known to all of you. I am Kortron's earthbound ground (much to his frustration some times as he has a tendency to be "other worldly" - much to my frustration). Rather than become a "computer widow" I now join forces with Kortron on another level. In doing so I am merely extending the role that I accepted three years ago when we came out of the closet and began actively seeking to communicate with other Lightworkers. It began very simply with the publication of the Orvotron Bimonthly Newsletter which I edit and publish. As projects have a tendency to do however, the newsletter grew both in length and distribution. No longer were we just communicating with our Family of Light but others who were on a spiritual path attempting to understand their purpose for being on Earth at this time became interested in our work. With the creation of Spirit BBS we began to reach a worldwide audience and through the gathering and exchanging of information our network has expanded at a phenomenal rate. At the same time a 39' x 39' wooden pyramid was being constructed on our property. It is being built entirely by love donations from our subscribers and supporters because they have discerned for themselves that the building is a necessary element in the transformation of Earth and her inhabitants. It is a building built for love, by love. It is a receiver/transmitter of the love vibration which will eventually bring Heaven to Earth or Earth to Heaven - either perspective is correct. The point is it is happening and there is nothing that you, the negative ET's or the dark forces operating to keep you under their control can do about it. One can choose to resist the vibration, the energy of love, and suffer the consequences of that decision, or one can choose to blend with it, to become it. Our message is that simple. Kortron, as you may have noticed, has a tendency to go off on tangents when he is attempting to answer questions or communicate his truth. This is natural as ALL IS ONE, all is interconnected and one subject leads to another. I am especially aware that Kortron does this since I live with him, listen to his conversations with others and edit his input in the newsletter. Since he is an ET the English language, both spoken and written, are sometimes difficult for him to use to get across his ideas; afterall telepathy is the only means of communication used where he is from. So my job as his ground is to interpret alien into English, to make it a little more understandable and perhaps a little more palatable by adding light and love here and there. His heart is in the right place. He definately works for The Source, the One Creator, but he is a Tron (Metatron) and therefore blunt, matter of fact and a little abrasive at times, as we all can be. But let's admit it folks, he has gotten your attention. He has made you consider and think about life as you know it from a different perspective. His goal is to have you operate from and focus on the Big Picture, not the Little Picture of your individual, often mundane lives. One truth I have learned from him is that adopting the larger perspective as a base of operation has put the smaller picture of my own life naturally in its place, in the right perspective. My personal woes and concerns have become secondary to those of the planet, the galaxies, the universes and as I become more open to the myriad of possibilities, I learn that anything is possible. You will hear more from me as I have now joined Kortron and others in the effort to awaken the seekers who use the computer echo systems to communicate about UFO's, governmental controls and ET's - the good, the bad and the ugly. With that I now send you the March/April, 1993, Orvotron Bimonthly Newsletter. My sincere hope is that you too will accept the Love Vibration and become one with LOVE. I Am That I AM. With Love in The Light, Solinus ORVOTRON, BIMONTHLY NEWSLETTER March/April, 1993 Greetings Ascending Star People. During the two months since our last newsletter things have accelerated to the point that we are now in what I call PHASE TWO of Earth's ascension. This statement should be good news to those who have waited so long for the completion of our combined Earth mission to be on the horizon. In many ways this experience has been a supreme test of our patience, inner strength and ability to adapt. This has created many wonderful opportunities for learning. The fact that we are present on Earth in a time of change from a negative to a positive reality will result in our achieving much soul growth. This is being imprinted in our very beings and will serve us well in the future as we continue our service to the One Creator in similar transitions. Some Lightworkers have already awakened and are now moving through the maze of negative programming, rising above it as positive entities to join with others in the creation of Heaven on Earth. Many, however, are still engrossed in the illusion due to the use of "mind control" on Earth, the trap we were warned about prior to volunteering and entering Earth's influence. It has been estimated that only about six percent of the world's population have the ability to "think" or clearly perceive the real situation. These souls are caught up in repetitious, staged dramas of little value which are unrelated to what is really taking place. This has been frustrating to the Lightworkers since these souls could not perceive truth or see things as clearly as we do. Mind control has their attention and focus on what doesn't really exist. Mind control of the masses has been carefully orchestrated by the dark forces and has been recorded in history for many bloody centuries. Some examples would be the French Revolution, the Spanish Inquisition and the Dark Ages. We have been programmed since birth to accept a false reality which directs the flow of individual energy and personal power to a few who are in control of the many. In a variety of ways this is designed to keep your focus and attention away from any possibility of seeing the reality of what they are actually doing. All this is based on lies creating any illusion those in power wish to perpetrate. These diversions are then repeated to us by the media they control and are simply programmed into our minds as a reality which is staged to hold our focus. This is also the method and means used to prevent us from detecting we have become a controlled, fear based society and which prevents us from creating a world based on love. The souls caught up in this great deception believe they are informed, protected and free but in actuality they are puppets of forces who play mind games and pull their strings. The controllers know that a herd mentality produced through mind control techniques is much easier to manipulate, control and police. Any behavior which is different can be easily detected. Those who can resist the programing, see the truth and attempt to unveil others are quickly discerned, degraded and even eliminated if necessary. When systematic programming of the masses began the controls were based on a fixed consciousness so a basic fear of change was easy to implement. Early use of programming started to erode as a faster magnetic pulse entered Earth's magnetic field beginning in the 1960's to bring in higher a consciousness based on love. New and more extreme methods of mind control were then needed as consciousness became harder to control. Mass hypnosis, subliminals, mind altering drugs, food and water passive additives which were already in use could not offset the naturally rising consciousness. Early experiments in microwave technology revealed a way to transmit information directly into the brain to influence thought patterns. Thus, a more subversive method could now be used to induce negative, fear based programming. The old adage "Divide and Conquer" was then applied to alienate and separate neighbor from neighbor so that any group endeavor could not be easily accomplished. If by chance it did occur it was closely monitored or in some cases destroyed. We will call this "direct programming" because it can be implemented whenever and wherever necessary through the use of ground devices or satellites. Unbeknownst to those targeted, large blocks of information can now be transferred to any individual or large group in any staging area to produce a completely different than normal mind set. Microwave Programming has come of age and is being used to corrupt the thinking of the world's population and to alter or offset Earth's changing consciousness in these individuals. As Earth moves into the uncharted seas of the higher frequency of fifth dimensional consciousness those in control of microwave technology now simply match the shifts of consciousness by boosting the power to the transmitters. Rather than seeking a safer way for the individuals effected, safety was thrown to the four winds. In their way of thinking many brain dead people would be much less threatening than dealing with a world of awakened, thinking people who could see through the controls and become aware of what is really going on. After two decades of microwave use and experimentation scientists now estimate that only six percent of the targeted population are able to think clearly. To make matters worse, the many high voltage lines crisscrossing the world are destroying the ozone layer at the poles and are slowly altering the magnetic field around Earth. Large doses of increased microwave use are further enhancing the effect. On top of that the frequencies coming in from outside Earth's atmosphere are also changing things. The protective shield that has encapsulated Earth and kept her quarantined from the rest of the universes is now being removed and soon will be completely lifted. This means that much that was previously veiled from the inhabitants of this planet can no longer be hidden and will soon be discernible, understood and revealed to many. You might say this is a second opportunity, and in most cases the last, to wake up and make a free will choice to join Earth as she ascends to Mansion World Reality. None of this is taking place without a biological effect on all life forms. Certain organs within the human body are already not accepting the changes in Earth's magnetic fields. We have received reports that many are having their gall bladders removed and in the future this may effect other organs as well. At some point Earth must be evacuated for a short time until the establishment of the correct pulse and flux is achieved. If cooperation is achieved during Phase Two this will go off smoothly and life will be returned to the surface when it is once again safe. The removal of the protective shield is being done for two reasons: The first is that the electromagnetic field of Earth cannot advance through the next stages of activation surrounded by an encapsulating shell. Lifting the protective shield will increase the energy needed to repair the electromagnetic field damaged by high voltage power lines and microwave transmissions. Without this energy work being done for the transition the reaction will not be as intended. Instead a condenser effect or surge would be created that could not blend with the solar system patterning that is now rising to be in harmony with all other creation universes. The second reason is that the Earth must be further opened to the light energies that are now approaching. These energies will divide the negative and positive realities into two separate groups and eventually eliminate the negative aspect. This statement also refers to those entities who are now approaching and who will leave shortly thereafter. To further understand what I am saying here meditate on this statement: Nothing Is Ever Wasted In the Universes. By their own choice some will come and some will go on Earth. These will be effected by choices which are fixed, in transition or already changed. PLANETARY CONJUNCTIONS ARE CREATING THE WAVE OF CHANGE IN '93 The first of three conjunctions this year of Uranus and Neptune occurred in early February. These conjunctions will release a galactic tidal wave of light to enable the planet and her inhabitants to cross into the higher frequency modulation of a different density. It is important that we recognize and blend with this energy rather than resist or attempt to manipulate it. Those who succeed in reaching a higher state of consciousness before major Earth cleansing begins will be faced with a most difficult decision - the releasing of emotional attachments to loved ones who refuse to see the changes we know are coming. Their own refusal to accept this eventuality is hindering their attraction to it and causing them to loose their ability to become a part of it. We must each allow a much higher reality to occur through our individual intent and our group focus. We must resist the temptation to intervene in another's free will choice nor should we attempt to control the Earth changes that have been set in motion and must now occur. It is becoming increasingly more important that we seek council before we endeavor to lessen or alter any changes as this could create much harsher outcomes than necessary in the long run. Trusting in the higher order of things now must replace our individual desire to stop the needed changes. In other words, NATURE KNOWS BEST in what is about to occur. We must understand in a more compassionate way that the end justifies the means. It is far better to embrace change in total acceptance and love for the planet and all life as the correct means to enable the Earth to be born into fifth dimensional reality. Earth will not be destroyed nor will all life. Death is birth and birth is a journey forward into a new experience called life. We are all Spirits as is the planet. Beyond third dimensional reality there is NO concept of death at all, there is only transition. If we, as a group, can reach a common ground in our understanding we will accomplish more together to assist the birthing of a new reality on Earth. More good can arise through a group endeavor than by random acts done alone. We must understand that the Wheel of Life cleanses itself through natural laws in accordance to the Divine Plan. If you are awake enough to understand that you can create change, then it is better to focus these abilities on evolving a world built on unconditional love than to attempt to use this power to alter the coming Earth changes. In my walk here I have watched from the sidelines as situations transpired which at times were really hard for me to bare witness to or restrain from getting involved in. I knew that the end result would be better if I did not intervene although at the time one side of me wanted to get involved. Upon reflection after the fact I realized that the result was as inner guidance reflected it would be and this resulted in some beautiful lessons in discernment and following my inner guidance. In these cases my intervention would have altered the outcomes if I had blindly raced to prevent what appeared on the surface to be a disaster. By allowing the changes to occur in a natural way the result was far better than my interference could have possibly created. This further strengthened my love of the Divine Plan. Earth too has her freedom of choice and we must recognize and accept this. She has her place in the Divine Plan and is a conscious participant fully aware of the necessity for her actions. Peace and Love, Kortron THE TEAM EFFORT In mid February we made a nine day trip to Florida while Sundance held the fort here on Stone Mountain. It was a working vacation as we touched base with earth relatives as well as many brothers and sisters from the stars. The main emphasis of our talks with these people was the need to pull together in a more tightly knit fashion lending support whenever and however possible. Our concern is not just the linking together of those we are presently networking, but the joining of the efforts of the Pleiadians, the earth based Ashtar Command, those from Sirius and Arcturus, etc. We are all here for the same purpose - to create Heaven on Earth by awakening as many souls as possible to a love based reality - but thus far the various groups appear to be working separately rather than in a group effort. We have plans to seek answers to specific questions regarding the group aspect coming together from the Pleiadians through Barbara Marciniak. We were pleased to attend one of Barbara's sessions in early February in which the Pleiadians spoke about the Uranus/Neptune conjunctions and we feel we made some important connections within the group attending this meeting. We left doors open for a two way exchange in the future. Our presentations to the groups in Florida revolved around channelings from Ashtar through Tom H. Smith, whom we introduced to you in our January/February, 1993 newsletter. He has been instrumental as a bridge of communication between Orvotron and the Ashtar Command above since we do not personally channel Ashtar. Tom received word from Ashtar that he is now a designated spokesperson for planet Earth for The Confederation of Planets. This is a great honor and we feel because of his giving, loving heart that he is the right person for this important job. Channels come and go but few hold to the task or accept the commitment. We have felt for a long time that this position needed to be filled in order for the necessary exchanges to take place and for the development of a common ground in task and deed to bring this world out of darkness into vibrant love and light. It is hoped that Tom will fulfill this role as he channels several other entities who are involved in the Earth mission. The following five sections are the channelings from Ashtar to Tom H. Smith which we presented to others while we were in Florida. We feel it is important to include this information as it answers questions posed by many who wish to understand the role of the Metatrons in the Earth mission, the significance of Orvotron and what each of us can do to contribute to the successful completion of our combined Earth mission. We hope that you will find this information not only interesting but helpful as you move forward in your awakening process and are inspired to learn more about your personal role in our mutual effort to create Heaven on Earth. THE INTERGALACTIC COUNSEL AND THE METATRONS Long ago in Earth time-space terms, it was decided by a hierarchy of universal overseers to establish a group or committee-type structure that would, in turn, oversee the development of the planet Earth and its inhabitants. The make up of this group would be essentially the same as that of the hierarchical committee. That is, it would consist of representatives of all the different worlds somewhat adjacent to the universe in which the Earth existed, as well as a selection from other universes. In this way there would be participants who were most familiar with many of the local issues of this universe, as well as those who could bring in their own world experiences and also learn from this one. This group was given the name of Intergalactic Counsel. It was constituted as a true counsel of different worlds, with the primary focus on matters concerning the Earth and surrounding planets and dimensions. As "time" went on and the war lords took control of planet Earth, it was decided that there was a need for another group whose function was to be almost exclusively focused on the Earth and her inhabitants, primarily the humans. The Earth also requested this. This group "reported" to the Intergalactic Counsel. Remember you are dealing with mostly light beings, but all were beings of love. Consequently, those who served in the respective positions did not need to be told to report to anyone, as we all serve out of true love. But the various missions and responsibilities were so vast that it was necessary to have someone "in charge" of the different organizational levels to coordinate these activities. So another counsel was established, what many are now referring to as a "command" and very specifi- cally the "Ashtar Command" at the present time. It was not always Ashtar's command. At one time Sananda was in the approximate position I am in now. For those who do not know, Sananda and Christ are the same energy. This has been a very summarized version of how the Intergalactic Counsel and Ashtar's command came about. Ashtar is a member of the Intergalactic Counsel, as is Sananda and others with my command. We work at the ultimate direction of the One Creator, although the One Creator rarely is directly involved with us for Its own reasons. But we do function with the blessing and assistance at times of the One Creator. I will add that the Creator is becoming more involved as the time for the Great Harvest of Souls is nearing. It is our goal to serve in love and to serve as a single voice of information to those on the Earth and surrounding planets. We are love. We are light. Even so, there are no absolutes. We have difficulties of our own communicating and coordinating. Since there are essentially an infinite number of factors and energies at work in the "global" situations, it is difficult to assure that all involved will be functioning at the optimal level. In your terms we have had some failures. But we have learned from these as well. The largest obstacles to overcome have not been the dark forces as such, but the results upon humankind of the work of those dark forces. They have in effect manipulated and controlled the human species almost to the point of "no return". Of course this can and is being changed, even as I speak. This is some of the general background to bring us current. There is far more to say concerning the make up of the Counsel membership, such as specific roles and members. That is a topic for another time. There are publications available for those who are interested in more details on the Counsel and the command. The Counsel made a decision at a point in "time" to call on the assistance of the Metatrons. We felt that the Trons had the exact kind of experience and know-how to work with the probable energies that we anticipated to be emanating from the Earth's inhabitants. The Metatrons were more than willing to assist, as they are of love and light. As each of the other represented races are unique with their own history and characteristics, so too are the Metatrons. They are indeed from a mature universe that had already evolved through many of the same situations as are occurring within this one, including Earth. So we had that "expertise" to call on. This is not a story about the Metatrons, either, but one designed to give a special flavor of the possible roles of the Trons. Many of those called into service to the Intergalactic Counsel were warriors. Their knowledge and skills were needed by the Earth as well as the Counsel. Yet the warriors created their own unique opportunities. They did not have the human history experience that many of the other races had. This meant that they would have some difficulty adjusting to the human situations. But, as they agreed to do it, they are expected to proceed and participate as any others in the flesh, subject to all of the same physical and universal laws. So this brings us very quickly to now. The Intergalactic Counsel and the Ashtar Command are fully supportive of each other and each element within the respective groups. Although each functions as an independent energy, we are all of the One and therefore are one. There is a tremendous need to communicate at our level and at the Earth level. This is absolutely essential for the successful completion of the Earth mission. One of the major functions of the Trons is to assist in realigning the energy grids of the Earth, at all levels. They also have other responsibilities, including countering the activities to the dark forces and governmental roles, at least to the extent these roles interfere with the Earth mission. At our level, we are in constant communications with the Metatron overseers, those who are working very directly with their own beings on the planet. Orvotron is a location that is involved with the energy alignments I mentioned previously. It is equally important for those on the ground to communicate not only with the Tron overseers, but also all others on the Earth who have any role whatsoever in the Earth mission. Much of the communications is direct, others will be indirect. Orvotron is very important, but it is not to exist in a vacuum. It is to be supported by all those at our level and on the Earth plane. It in turn is to support all others. It is not to exist for its own sake, but for the benefit of the planet. And it is indeed of much benefit. I and those in my command are totally aware of its importance. Orvotron is an integral part to the success of the mission, as are practically all the other elements. We support the Metatrons and work very closely with them. We are all as one. I hope this answers the concerns of Kortron. I am always ready to respond to his and others needs and concerns. It is of equal importance that Kortron recognize the roles of those he deals with. To be successful, there are no mutually exclusive roles. Support is needed by each who has agreed to this most important mission on the planet Earth. KORTRON, ORVOTRON AND WORKING TOGETHER AS ONE Kortron has many concerns as he tries very hard to link all the different aspects of the ET connections, as well as other related areas of spirituality. There is no difference between spiritual development and us space friends. We are all you, you are us. We are all one. So it is in the view of oneness that I suggest that each of you is on a unique path. All of your paths ultimately lead to the One. When all people can be heard as a single voice, a single collection of energies, the affect on your individual worlds and on the planet Earth would be beyond your wildest imagination. Regardless of your individual paths, it is best when there is a link of energies. Each of you is unique. At the same time you speak and hear many of the same messages. We do not tell you which messages you must listen to. This is your choice. But I and all those on whose behalf I speak at this time, encourage all those who are of the light to work together and do not be in competition with one another. When you are of the light, you are of love. When you are of love, you allow each to be who they are and you agree to serve in a manner that enhances your own growth and that of the whole. All roles are of equal importance, as you are all equal to all others in the universe. Each has chosen their own path to claim this so. It is a claim to each of us and to the One Creator that you have agreed to assist in your own specific and special way. This is why you are here at this time. When each does a part, we all benefit. There are indeed what may appear to be more important events or circumstances than others. This is not entirely true, as I have said you are all equal. Yet there are certain events or locations that are extremely important for the success of the Earth mission. There are different physical locations throughout the planet that are key areas of energy and focus. As each of those on the light path awakens, you will become aware of these and why they are so important. Of equal importance is the spiritual support that these centers need, including support of those who have agreed to coordinate the different activities. It is not necessary for each of you to totally understand the significance of all of this, or even accept it as your truth at this time. At a point you will begin to know what most of these centers are about. But it is important for each who truly claims to be on the path of light, to allow the various energy centers the freedom to expand. It is important that each support in some form the spiritual growth of the whole. You do this of course by honoring yourself with love. I have been asked to specifically speak of the work Kortron and others around him are doing. It is important that all those on the path link together to create the greatest possible fields of energy. It is important to work together in all aspects of spirituality. It is important to support each other and to communicate that support and information. Kortron for one has much love and information to share. He is a guardian of a most sacred place on this planet. It does not belong to him. It belongs to all of you. It belongs to the Earth. But Kortron has a most difficult task as, he has agreed to help direct the paths of light to a large portion of the Earth. He has agreed to deal with the skepticism of many of those who do not believe he is who he claims to be. He has agreed to the difficult task of provid- ing a most important energy link of people, of those who are willing to join as one to support this center in concert with their own path. There is a location referred to as Orvotron that contains a very high energy vortex. This vortex remained inactive until Kortron was led to this area. He then activated the energy fields that were waiting for this time. Of course Kortron did this with the help of the space friends. But he was the ground level activator and it was necessary for him to be present to prepare the area and to remain as guardian and protector of the site. Most do not know that Kortron has had to ward off the intrusions of the negative forces as they have become aware of the existence and purpose of this particular vortex. The negative energies have "assaulted" this area and Kortron with everything from direct attacks on his well being, to quasi-military interventions, and even with the infiltration of their own agents. To date Kortron has recognized each effort, and has successfully repelled the energies directed towards him. It is to his credit as a warrior, and that of his Metatron family and others, that he has been so successful in maintaining the light focus on the mountain. This part of his task would be much easier with the link of other light energies around him. It is not necessary that others even need to be physically there, or physically living in the area. It is by each light worker's intent to link with this powerful and beautiful energy, that is most beneficial. This is not to suggest that there is no benefit for people of like mindedness to physically locate there. Indeed, it is intended as a light workers community and gathering place, as well as a location for those who wish a permanent residence. With more energies to link there in the physical, it will be a stronger, more unified energy field. The Earth has selected this area as one of the highest energy areas on her surface. There are more wonderful things in store for this site, but it is best to not speak of these at this time. Each who is drawn to this location out of love and service will become aware of all this is to occur. There is much information available on the energy vortex that Kortron is the guardian of. It is located in the beautiful mountains of North Carolina. He is always pleased to share his knowledge and wisdom. It is not the only energy center, but it is very important for the balance of the planet. It is indeed a place where the human energies can gather as one, and enhance even more the natural light of this region. So it is with this background that the need for all to be as one in love and light should be more apparent. Kortron and Solinus will remain and enjoy the beautiful energies of the mountains, and endure the negative attacks by the dark forces, as long as we and the One Creator asks them to do so. But their tasks, and indeed all of humankind's, can be much easier with the joining of loving energies for the common goal of helping the Earth and each other. I encourage each one of you to become aware of your oneness with all and with the ALL. When you are truly at peace with the One, you will have no difficulty accepting the loving light of all those around you. You will then be willing to link your energy and love with all others, your knowing with all who wish to know, and your support for all those on the path, even if a different path than your own. So I offer these words at this time, as many of you must learn to work through your own ego and see how equal each is to you and you to them. Share your love. Share your common goals of spiritual growth. Take charge of yourself and do not be concerned with taking charge of others. Be as one. MESSAGES ON KORTRON'S NAME, UNIVERSE AND THE ATECH'S This is Ashtar. I have heard your request for information on behalf of Kortron and I am pleased to respond. I am honored to do so for you. I know all of those whom Kortron visits on his ships. I know them quite well. Xonephia is the name of the planet from which Kortron originated. The name of the universe and where it is located is not important to anything happening now, period. However, the planet is in another dimension and is not "visible" from this one. In terms of distance, it is some 1,000 light years from here. But keep in mind it is in another dimension, so you cannot get from here to there by traveling 1,000 light years. It is necessary to traverse 2 dimensions, and then travel that great distance. You have been there during your travels as a light being. This is how you first met the Kortron energy. There is a name for his universe, but it has no name that can be interpreted in your Earth language, any of them. His planet is located approximately 1 million miles from his central sun. This is all that I can give on it at the present time. There is a race of reptilians who are of the light, the ones Kortron referred to as Atech. Actually there are more than a single group of reptilians who are of the light. There are others who are now working towards the light but who have much to do to correct their balance of love. They have agreed to do this and are well aware it will take a long time in your terms. The Atechs are a race who have almost completed their return to the light. These are indeed working with the light forces. They do not wish to be seen in the physical on Earth, as they are aware of certain confusion in the future. People will be unable to distinguish the "good" from the "bad" reptilians. Of course those with discernment would be able to . But it could cause too much confusion. So they will remain in the background. However, they have agreed to a very specific role as advisors in different capacities. They occupy a small planet near Orion, but separate from Orion. There are not great numbers of them. However more will be joining them as they open to the light. A MESSAGE TO LIGHT WORKERS To our friends from other countries and indeed to those of the entire planet Earth, I and all of us in the spirit realm do thank you for undertaking your missions on earth. It is only through each and everyone of you that the positive energies of all of you can be spread and come together as one. This not only helps others, but primarily helps yourself and the Earth. Do not be of the mind that you have this gigantic objective to deal with. Rather view your own individual roles as equal and as important as all others. Then consider how you can best learn to love yourself. This may sound like a strange message coming from an ET at a time like this, at least to some. But it is in loving and knowing yourself that you then can know and love the One Creator of us all. It is in knowing and loving yourself that you can truly come in touch with your total beingness including your higher self. It is in knowing and loving yourself that you spread your light to all others. When we are all one, we are all love. After this there is nothing else. So this is my main message to each of you. But I also have other things to say. If you listen to any of my words, listen to what I have just said. Through love, love of self, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. While each of you learns to overcome your own programming to self love, there are other things to keep in mind. While love of self is the most important love you can have, it is absolutely essential that you learn and know the meaning of true self manifestation - creating your own reality. With the knowledge of manifestation, you will be able to do anything, and I mean ANYTHING. I have already spoken of the subject in a general way in another channeling through Tom, so you may wish to read that. This will enable me to move on to another message. I encourage every human on this planet to have total comfort and confidence in knowing how you can create your own reality. This is so very important for you in the near future. Every time someone awakens and begins to feel good about teaching others, there always exists the potential of different perspectives of the same truths. In fact this pleases us, as it is good to have many views of similar beliefs. It gives each the opportunity to better understand and accept, or reject, these teachings. Often what may accompany one teacher or group of like minds is the idea that others might tie into and even accept their position, often at the exclusion of others teachings. These ego situations are what many humans are still seeking to overcome. I encourage each of you to keep in mind that the Earth mission, the mission sanctioned by the One Creator, can only be successful when there is love, understanding and acceptance between such groups. You must learn to accept each other and even encourage the flexibility that others may know more than to you about some things. But no one knows all things, so each of you is an important link to the light work. You will also find as you search on your path, that your own knowledge will be opened to areas and energies you did not even know existed. You may have had a focus on or be used to a certain spirit energy. You may have begun to believe that is the most important speaker from the One. Remember, we are all equal, you and I and all of our space and spirit brethren. So be open to all positive channelings and teachings of information. One of these is our brother Kortron. He has a mission, just as each of you do. His mission as a Metatron requires the love and cooperation of many people, as should he be the same way towards others. I encourage you to listen to his words, and to support the message of love and cooperation he will speak of. Then go within and determine how you may be able to support his mission in conjunction with your own. He too must support yours. This he will do with the successful completion of his own and in other ways he is asked to do. CREATE YOUR OWN REALITY: KNOW YOUR OWN MANIFESTATION POWER, AND SOON The Earth and her inhabitants are not as you may seem. In one sense you are an illusion. I say one sense as all forms of thought create illusions, at least from your physical perspective. This may sound like double talk, but it is really an attempt to give a simple explanation for your basic premise of existences. It is not my intent to confuse in this matter, so I will not dwell on it further. Since each of you can feel the physical around you, you are thinking it is very real, very solid. It certainly is that, for this perspective of you. But there are many other probable selves, some in physical reality similar to this one, and others in a non solid form. But they are all of you and they are all real and they are all illusions, from different perspectives. It is the firm belief by most of you that what you see, feel and hear are absolute, beyond a doubt, the way you and everything around you is. Because of your programmed beliefs, it is difficult that you could imagine other existences occurring at this very instant, all around you as well as throughout the universe. But this is true. It is difficult for many of you to believe these words are coming from anyone other than the person or alter ego of Tom, unless of course someone else is writing it in his name. Many cannot comprehend that words and information outside of Tom or any other instrument are real and not made up. Yet each of you is capable of seeing, feeling and hearing the other dimensions and realities I previously spoke of. You are each capable, but by the mere fact you do not believe it so, therefore you are not. It all relates to your ability to create your own reality. It does not matter how esoteric or physical you wish to be, "to be" you must create it. This "in fact" is what you are and what is all around you. You have created it directly or participated with others to create it. When you participate with others to create things, it is called a collective creation or a result of a larger mass consciousness. Because most of you have chosen the experience to forget or block your true spiritual self, you have also blocked your conscious awareness of exactly how it is you create all these things around you. It is not always important to have a conscious recall of everything you create. In fact, this would actually get in your way, as you would be thinking and analyzing so much that you would cease to be creating. But I tell you this as it is extraordinarily valuable for you to KNOW how you create everything that is around you. It is the most powerful aspect of your existence. It is self empowerment personified. The Creative Source of us all has very clearly and deliberately created this individual aspect of each of us so we may have the complete and maximum experiences we desire. While it is best that you do not continuously and deliberately think about creating your own reality, it is nevertheless of extreme importance that you KNOW how to do this. It is of extreme importance that you know and realize from the conscious, to the deep subconscious, that you have the ability to create everything there is about you, and in fact you do it. It is of the same extreme importance that you KNOW you can and do create all this is around your world. It is important that you know you have and ARE creating your wars, your crimes, your political systems, your hunger, your beautiful weather, your happy times as groups, and all of it. It is all as a result of mass beliefs or mass consciousness. It is ALL A COLLECTION OF INDIVIDUAL BUT SIMILAR THOUGHTS AND DESIRES - ALL OF IT. Most of you will flat out deny this. You will say it is God's will, or it is a result of chance circumstances. Even for those who might entertain the possibility that what I say is true, you will wonder why you would create so much negativity. Simple. You have allowed yourselves to be programmed to think or not to think a certain way. Do not doubt for an instant the total power of mass programming, or mass marketing, or mass brainwashing. But you each agree to it. You have simply forgotten over time that this is what you are doing. But you are responsible regardless. Think for a moment of the possible ways you can be programmed to believe a certain way. For instance, look at the endless ways you are programmed from your TV. You are told that if you do not take a certain flu shot, you will get a cold or the flu. So you take these to "prevent" the symptoms. You may also be told day in and day out about how much better one brand of cigarettes or automobiles is over another. This influences your shopping habits more than you could imagine. The list of media programming is indeed endless. It is used to your detriment and your benefit. It helps you create a certain mind set which is a thought form, which in turn may correspond to the creation of individual or mass realities. You say you have free will. This is true. But perhaps you do not exercise it so freely, as you are swayed by the media programming just mentioned. It is all done very subtly. It is not done TO you. It is done BY you. Let us expand our examples or possibilities. If I were totally convinced a certain belief of mine was so important for each to believe as well, I might be able to devise a method to teach you, to convince you of the same belief. If I am tremendously successful over a long period of time, I could even broadcast the belief far and wide. Then thousands or even millions might believe the same way. From this, mass realities are created. Look at your clothes fashions - perfect example. This is true of EVERYTHING about your private and public existences. Religion is another perfect example, although most might argue this might be a positive example of creation, unless of course you didn't want it forced on you. Your style of politics is a reflection of your mass beliefs, even the corruption within it. You create it and you allow it to continue. It is yours, period! I could spend hours giving more obvious and some not so obvious examples of creating your own reality. The point is, each does it, including we space friends. We all do it. But you say, "How do I do it? It is a function of the energy fields at your "disposal". It is in how you learn to manipulate the energies at the different levels. There are many very good publications that may enlighten you. But it is not necessary to know all the details to be able to do it. In fact you didn't even know you were doing it, but you were doing it anyway. What is so important is you can learn to very deliberately create whatever it is you wish, be it physical or non physical. If you are not careful, you can very deliberately create a negative event or situation for yourself. Caution is advised. The near future is a time when it is in the greatest interest of humanity to totally understand the ability and consequences of creating your own reality. There are some very trying, chaotic and ultimately beautiful times in store for all those on this planet. The sooner each of you becomes aware of your true empowerment, the better prepared you will be. The quicker each can master your own ability to create, in a deliberate way, your own reality, the quicker you will be able to meet the challenges head on and work through them in the most desired way. Ashtar, of The Ashtar Command. (Let us add a final note here. It is always good when verification comes from many different levels. It is even more productive when many factions meet and join in a common goal. Think what a grand event it will be when separation of countries and peoples is replaced with a unified body of love. That time is close and I applaud all who have joined in this effort.) SUBSCRIPTION AND LOG-ON INFORMATION We are pleased to send a "Love Copy" of the most current newsletter to anyone you think will be interested. Just pass your friend's name and address on to us and we will mail out the issue compliments of you. Back issues contain much information which is still relevant and may provide some clarity on subjects discussed in subsequent newsletters. They may be obtained for $5.00 per issue. Love donations (which should be made payable to Judith A. Wells) are greatly appreciated and go to Spirit's work to create Heaven on Earth. A subscription also entitles you to log-on the Spirit Bulletin Board Service, a computer/modem (telephone link up) system which includes a message section called Star-Link for the exclusive use of Star People. You may access this information by calling via computer 1-704-297-5973 or through Email 1:379/703. For a year's subscription (six bimonthly issues) and user status on Spirit BBS please send $30.00 (U.S.) or $40.00 (all other countries) in U.S. funds only (International Money Orders or bank check in U.S. currency are accepted. No cash, please!) made payable to: Judith A. Wells Route 2, Box 309B Vilas, NC 28692 (704) 297-2342 -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14401 alt.conspiracy:24123 sci.skeptic:40684 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Clippings from the BAMA UFO Echo Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:46:55 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.014655.8435@bilver.uucp> Lines: 629 AREA:UFO (3531) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:18 By: Don Allen To: All Re: M1 St: Local Sent 3532> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Jerry Woody * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Mar 1993, 20:07 Odyssey News Wire-- *** Classification *** 旼� � � Space/Astronomy/UFO/Astral Events 쳐� � � Monsters/Strange Creatures 쳐� �*� Unknown Happenings/Paranormal/Psychic Events 읕� * Odyssey Newsclippings may NOT be crossposted into non-Odyssey echos without permission of Odyssey Administration. 旼쩡컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컫커 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� ALBERTVILLE- Doug Segers said he saw a helicopter 쿽� 쿽쿯orcing his herd of 42 cattle into a corner in his 쿽� 쿽쿾asture. He said he felt the wind and heard the engine. 쿽� 쿽� "The copter was behind my back with a spotlight." Of 쿽� 쿽쿬ourse, I had a 30-30 r@fle over my shoulder. They saw 쿽� 쿽쿺e run to my truck " he said. 쿽� 쿽� "The cows were scared to death. One cow is real gentle 쿽� 쿽쿪nd we couldn't even get around her." 쿽� 쿽� A neighbor called the Marshall County Sheriff's 쿽� 쿽쿏epartment. The excitement scared the helicopter away, 쿽� 쿽쿞egers said. He said he saw what looked like red, 쿽� 쿽쿲reen, blue and white lights but couldn't make out the 쿽� 쿽쿬olor of the chopper. He said he also saw the sheriffs 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopter much higher. The alleged mysterious 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopter barely cleared power lines before getting 쿽� 쿽쿹ower. 쿽� 쿽� "I wasn't scared, I was mad. They 쿽� 쿽퀇ould have gotten (a cow) that night" he said, 쿽� 쿽�"The farmers, all of us, are going to have to pull 쿽� 쿽퀃ogether and help one another out and do what we can to 쿽� 쿽쿴elp." 쿽� 쿽� Segers owns a slaughterhouse and said they kill 쿽� 쿽쿪nimals every day for people. 쿽� 쿽� "I don't see how in the world can they do it this 쿽� 쿽퀇ay," he said. 쿽� 쿽� Some farmers are using spotlights and patrolling 쿽� 쿽퀃heir land, he said. 쿽� 쿽� The animals weigh about 1,000 pounds and hold about 40 쿽� 쿽쿾ounds - or five gallons - of blood. Some residents say 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopters make sense because it would give the killers 쿽� 쿽쿹ifting abilities and would make it easier to take heavy 쿽� 쿽쿫lood animal parts and cutting and pumping equipment 쿽� 쿽쿪way from the scene. 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 읕좔컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컨켸 --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3532) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:19 By: Don Allen To: All Re: M2 St: Local Sent 3531<>3533 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fcd @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Jerry Woody * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Mar 1993, 20:08 Odyssey News Wire-- *** Classification *** 旼� � � Space/Astronomy/UFO/Astral Events 쳐� � � Monsters/Strange Creatures 쳐� �*� Unknown Happenings/Paranormal/Psychic Events 읕� * Odyssey Newsclippings may NOT be crossposted into non-Odyssey echos without permission of Odyssey Administration. 旼쩡컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컫커 쿽� Resident and victim Jole Strawn said he has seen 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopters land in cow pastures at night. He said he 쿽� 쿽쿴as 30 head or about $12,000 in animals. 쿽� 쿽� He organized a network of victims and farmers and said 쿽� 쿽퀃he group has been able to identify three turbine 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopters in the area: 쿽� 쿽�> Light blue and white with a big orange sun; 쿽� 쿽�> dark blue; 쿽� 쿽�> black 쿽� 쿽� "I think they're coming in from away from here," he 쿽� 쿽퀂aid. 쿽� 쿽� He also said he spotted a helicopter flying about 75 쿽� 쿽쿯eet above the Ford dealership in the fog. 쿽� 쿽� "Some of this stuff is real bizarre," he said. Some of 쿽� 쿽퀃he animals were found with no rigor mortis and with 쿽� 쿽쿹imber joints. 쿽� 쿽� According to mortician, J. Hammond Martin, animals and 쿽� 쿽쿴umans are not stiff right after death but become stiff 쿽� 쿽쿹ater and then begin detcriorating - once again without 쿽� 쿽퀂tifftness. 쿽� 쿽� Mr. and Mrs. James Denney lost two cows in 1991. They 쿽� 쿽퀂aid they believe satanic worshippers could be 쿽� 쿽퀁esponsible for the killing. The cows were worth about 쿽� 쿽�$800 each and not insured. 쿽� 쿽� "We bought them on a Wednesday, they were killed the 쿽� 쿽쿻ext Sunday," Mrs. Denney said. One of the animals was 쿽� 쿽퀂till warm and the calf was not hurt. 쿽� 쿽� The only known helicopters in Marshall County are the 쿽� 쿽퀃wo black county choppers, a blue and white Tennessee 쿽� 쿽쿣alley Authority helicopter and several helicopters 쿽� 쿽퀃hat fly military flights through the county. 쿽� 쿽� "I think whoever is doing this is doing it for a 쿽� 쿽쿾arty with mystique," deputy Bob Norwood said. He 쿽� 쿽쿭oesn't think it would involve a true cult. "The true 쿽� 쿽쿺eaning of the word cult is hidden. They don't want the 쿽� 쿽쿾ublicity. It's their own little party." 쿽� 읕좔컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컨켸 --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3533) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:19 By: Don Allen To: All Re: M3 St: Local Sent <3532 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fce @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Jerry Woody * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Mar 1993, 20:08 Odyssey News Wire-- *** Classification *** 旼� � � Space/Astronomy/UFO/Astral Events 쳐� � � Monsters/Strange Creatures 쳐� �*� Unknown Happenings/Paranormal/Psychic Events 읕� * Odyssey Newsclippings may NOT be crossposted into non-Odyssey echos without permission of Odyssey Administration. 旼쩡컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컫커 쿽쿏ozens of residents have spotted helicopters from about 쿽� 쿽�8 p.m. to midnight near pastures. 쿽� 쿽� "They're going to protect their property," Norwood said 쿽� 쿽쿽f the farmers. A lot of the farmers in the area also 쿽� 쿽쿪re hunters and know how to use guns. 쿽� 쿽� Marshall County Sheriffs department pilot Jim Pickett 쿽� 쿽퀂aid minimum cost for a manufactured helicopter is about 쿽� 쿽�$175,000. He said night vision equipment and a turbine 쿽� 쿽쿮ngine would cost about $200,000 more. He also said it 쿽� 쿽쿬ould cost about $300 an hour to operate. 쿽� 쿽� Pickett said it would be difflcult to determine 쿽� 쿽퀇hether a helicopter had landed on hard, dry packed 쿽� 쿽쿹and. 쿽� 쿽쿔t could be a helicopter pilot and two ground people. 쿽� 쿽쿟he helicopter doesn't have to land," he said. 쿽� 쿽� "They want people to be scared of them," Norwood said. 쿽� 쿽� They said while the helicopter theory is possible, the 쿽� 쿽퀂ame thing could be done on foot - without all the 쿽� 쿽쿬ost. Helicopters have the danger of night, the 쿽� 쿽쿾ossibility of air and noise scaring the cattle and huge 쿽� 쿽쿬osts. 쿽� 쿽� Martin, who has been a mortician since 1939, said there 쿽� 쿽쿶s a wide technical range of equipment used to pump 쿽� 쿽쿫lood out of human bodies. He said the equipment could 쿽� 쿽쿮asily be used on cattle - and without leaving a trace 쿽� 쿽쿽f blood on the ground. 쿽� 쿽� "We used to do it by hand, using a bowl and gravity. 쿽� 쿽쿙ow it's a machine," he said. He said morticians often 쿽� 쿽퀅se a fluid to push the blood out of a body but said the 쿽� 쿽쿬ow killers wouldn't need to do that. He also said the 쿽� 쿽쿮quipment could easily be carried. 쿽� 쿽� "They could drain it and not leave a drop of blood," 쿽� 쿽쿴e said. 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 읕좔컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컨켸 --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3534) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:33 By: Don Allen To: All Re: New UFO Sightings St: Local Sent 1210<>3535 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fcf @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Odyssey UFObase * Originally to All * Originally dated 8 Mar 1993, 20:23 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: TRIANGLE � � Date Sighted: 04/18/92 � � City/County : E. PROVIDENCE � � State : RI � � Time : 11:05 PM � � Hynek Classification : CE1 � � Witnesses : 1 � � Sound : ? � � Duration : X � � Comments : � � PACED WITNESS SAME EVENT AS OCCURED 04/04/92 � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: SAUCER � � Date Sighted: 04/XX/92 � � City/County : S � � State : IA � � Time : EVENING � � Hynek Classification : NL � � Witnesses : 1 � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : X � � Comments : � � SAUCER LANDED IN FIELD NR HIGHWAY � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: BOOMERANG � � Date Sighted: 08/15/92 � � City/County : MARSHFIELD � � State : MO � � Time : 5:30 AM � � Hynek Classification : CE1 � � Witnesses : 2 � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : 15 MINUTES � � Comments : � � GOOD CE SIGHTING, OBJECT AT 50 FEET AND 5 VERT BEAMS LT � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3535) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:34 By: Don Allen To: All Re: New UFO Sightings St: Local Sent 3534<>3536 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fd1 @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Odyssey UFObase * Originally to All * Originally dated 9 Mar 1993, 20:38 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: DISCS � � Date Sighted: 12/09/92 � � City/County : DENVER � � State : CO � � Time : EVENING � � Hynek Classification : NL � � Witnesses : 2 � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : BRIEF � � Comments : � � 2 DISCS ILLUM BY SETTING SUN CROSSED PATHS � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: HEADLIGHTS � � Date Sighted: 02/04/93 � � City/County : INDIANAPOLIS � � State : IN � � Time : 6:40 AM � � Hynek Classification : CE1 � � Witnesses : MULTIPLE � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : 2 MINUTES � � Comments : � � OBJECTS W/HDLTS AT 200', LTS THEN AIMED DOWN � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3536) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:34 By: Don Allen To: All Re: New UFO Sightings St: Local Sent <3535 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fd0 @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Odyssey UFObase * Originally to All * Originally dated 9 Mar 1993, 20:35 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: OBLONG � � Date Sighted: 09/13/92 � � City/County : SUMMERFIELD � � State : MI � � Time : 9:30 PM � � Hynek Classification : CE2 � � Witnesses : 1 � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : SECONDS � � Comments : � � CAR GOT HOT INSIDE, OBJECT OBSERVED BRIEFLY � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: CRAFT � � Date Sighted: 09/20/92 � � City/County : SULLIVAN � � State : MO � � Time : 8:30 PM � � Hynek Classification : CE3 � � Witnesses : 3 � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : BRIEF � � Comments : � � CRAFT W/WINDOW, 20 THIN HUMANOIDS ON BOARD � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: OBLONG � � Date Sighted: 10/XX/92 � � City/County : ELLSWORTH � � State : SD � � Time : MIDNIGHT � � Hynek Classification : CE1 � � Witnesses : 2 � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : X � � Comments : � � 2 AFB PERSONEL SAW 300' OBJ W/LTS NR RUNWAY � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 ________________ /UFOBASE 4.0 (c) \ 旼컴/ Sighting \컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � Announcement � � ------------ � � UFO Shape: LIGHT � � Date Sighted: 11/06/92 � � City/County : CARBONDALE � � State : CO � � Time : 4:00 AM � � Hynek Classification : NL � � Witnesses : MULTIPLE � � Sound : NONE � � Duration : X � � Comments : � � HUGE, ROUND OBJ HOVERED, TOOK OFF � 읕컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴켸 --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3537) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:36 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Dec 1 St: Local Sent 3538> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fd3 @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Jerry Woody * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Mar 1993, 19:21 Odyssey News Wire-- *** Classification *** 旼� � � Space/Astronomy/UFO/Astral Events 쳐� � � Monsters/Strange Creatures 쳐� �*� Unknown Happenings/Paranormal/Psychic Events 읕� * This article may be crossposted in FREE echoes. 旼쩡컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컫커 쿽� 쿽� 쿽쿟he Decatur Daily 쿽� 쿽쿑ebruary 21, 1993 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽쿌LBERTVILL- At least 12 animals have been mysteriously 쿽� 쿽쿸illed and mutilated since October. Cattle farmers, 쿽� 쿽쿶ncluding Albertville chief detective Tony Cole, have 쿽� 쿽퀁eported dead bloodless, mutilated animals - cows, 쿽� 쿽쿲oats and at least one dog. The animals were found in 쿽� 쿽쿾astures with no traces of auto mobile tracks, 쿽� 쿽쿯ootprints or blood. 쿽� 쿽� "On Jan. 9, I went to feed my steers and realized I 쿽� 쿽퀇as one short. The sexual organs and rectum was removed 쿽� 쿽쿪nd the biood was gone," Cole said. 쿽� 쿽� His animal was killed amid his investigations into 쿽� 쿽퀃he mysterious case. 쿽� 쿽� All of the killings, including the latest - a 쿽� 쿽쿬alf found near Arab Tuesday morning - have formed a 쿽� 쿽퀃hree or four mile ring around Albertville. 쿽� 쿽� "They take tongues, eyes, ears, hearts. Sometimes they 쿽� 쿽퀃ake the blood," Cole said. There are no suspects in 쿽� 쿽퀃he case. 쿽� 쿽� Cattle mutilations are not entirely uncommon in this 쿽� 쿽쿞and Mountain area - and residents remember some from 쿽� 쿽�1986, 1989 and 1991. One farmer said he was hit a few 쿽� 쿽퀉ears ago and then hit again a few mornings ago. Cattle 쿽� 쿽쿽wners from Browns Valley and Brindlee Mountain have 쿽� 쿽퀁eported similar mutilations. 쿽� 쿽� Most of the animals are worth about $800 쿽� 쿽쿪nd many of them are not insured, Cole said. The 쿽� 쿽쿸illings are apparently happening at night. All of the 쿽� 쿽쿪nimals have been found within 150 feet of power lines. 쿽� 쿽쿞peculation about who could be doing the killing ranges 쿽� 쿽쿯rom aliens to satanic worshipers to people in 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopters and on foot. 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 읕좔컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컨켸 continued --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3538) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:36 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Dec2 St: Local Sent 3537<>3539 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fd4 @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Jerry Woody * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Mar 1993, 19:21 Odyssey News Wire-- *** Classification *** 旼� � � Space/Astronomy/UFO/Astral Events 쳐� � � Monsters/Strange Creatures 쳐� � � Unknown Happenings/Paranormal/Psychic Events 읕� 旼쩡컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컫커 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� Marshall County authorities are aware of 쿽� 쿽퀃wo black county helicopters, one blue and 쿽� 쿽퀇hite Tennessee Valley Authority chopper and several 쿽� 쿽쿺ilitary helicopters that fly through the area 쿽� 쿽쿯ollowing flight paths. 쿽� 쿽� "A TVA helicopter is not a possibility. I 쿽� 쿽쿭on't think ther're involved at all. Absolutely not," 쿽� 쿽쿎ole said. 쿽� 쿽� Most of the decomposed cows are buried hours after 쿽� 쿽퀃hey are found but three were found in time to send 쿽� 쿽쿯or autopsies. 쿽� 쿽� "It's crazy. It's sick," John Strawn said. The 쿽� 쿽쿬attlemen and finance manager at Gilbert and Baker Ford 쿽� 쿽쿔nc. lost one of his animals to the mysterious 쿽� 쿽쿺urderers. He said a state animal laboratory could not 쿽� 쿽쿭etermine the cause of death. "No one knows what's 쿽� 쿽쿸illing the animals," Cole said. He said he's formed a 쿽� 쿽쿻etwork with victims of the crime. On Tuesday night, 쿽� 쿽퀂everal people called the sheriffs department to report 쿽� 쿽쿺ysterious helicopters flying over pastures near 쿽� 쿽쿌lbertville. The county pilot, Jim Pickett, said he and 쿽� 쿽쿻ight supervisor deputy Bob Norwood went up in the 쿽� 쿽쿬ounty chopper to see if they could locate another 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopter. Norwood said he had already been to the farm 쿽� 쿽쿪nd heard a helicopter with a turbine engine. He said 쿽� 쿽퀃he Huntsville Aviation Tower could not detect movement 쿽� 쿽쿽n their screens and was unaware of flight Plans for 쿽� 쿽퀃hat area that night. The The chopper was reported near 쿽� 쿽쿘artling. Pickett and Norwood went about 2,500 feet up 쿽� 쿽퀇ith running lights. They were communicating with 쿽� 쿽쿭ispatchers and receiving reports for sighting of the 쿽� 쿽쿽ther helicopter, which they said they tried to follow 쿽� 쿽쿫ut never found. 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 읕좔컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컨켸 continued --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) @SEEN-BY: 123/26 @PATH: 123/26 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (3539) Fri 12 Mar 93 21:37 By: Don Allen To: All Re: Dec3 St: Local Sent <3538 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:123/26.1@fidonet.org 23952fd5 @PID: FM 2.02 * Forwarded from "BAMA" * Originally by Jerry Woody * Originally to All * Originally dated 7 Mar 1993, 19:22 Odyssey News Wire-- *** Classification *** 旼� � � Space/Astronomy/UFO/Astral Events 쳐� � � Monsters/Strange Creatures 쳐� � � Unknown Happenings/Paranormal/Psychic Events 읕� 旼쩡컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컫커 쿽� We kept getting reports of a helicopter flying at 쿽� 쿽퀃ree-top level with "no lights," he said. The sheriffs 쿽� 쿽쿴elicopter, which is black was not flying at tree- 쿽� 쿽퀃op level and had lights on at all times. 쿽� 쿽쿥hile searching for the second helicopter, shots were 쿽� 쿽쿯ired from the ground at the sheriffs helicopter. 쿽� 쿽쿙o one was hurt. Also, Norwood said a car signaled the 쿽� 쿽쿬hopper by flashing lights off and on. The helicopter 쿽� 쿽쿯lew close enough to the car to see that it was parked 쿽� 쿽퀅nder power lines. 쿽� 쿽� "People were trying to lure us into high tension 쿽� 쿽퀇ires. I don't think it was purposely for us," he 쿽� 쿽퀂aid. 쿽� 쿽� Both agreed they had low visibility and needed 쿽� 쿽쿺ore light then what they had to adequately see what 쿽� 쿽퀃hey were doing. 쿽� 쿽� We Would need infrared equipment if there was 쿽� 쿽쿪nother chopper," Norwood said. The pair didn't see 쿽� 쿽쿪nother helicopter but said it would have been 쿽� 쿽쿮xtremely difficult because of the darkness-and because 쿽� 쿽퀃he alleged chopper was running without lights.. 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 쿽� 읕좔컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컨켸 continued --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: * On Topic? What's that? <*> Fidonet UFO Moderator (1:123/26.1) -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Investigator's Edge - MUFON - Part 1 Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:58:56 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.015856.8938@bilver.uucp> Lines: 613 AREA:UFO (2524) Mon 1 Mar 93 21:52 By: Don Allen To: All Re: IEDGE --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** Courtesy of MUFONET ** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Part 1 of 2: MUFONET-BBS Network - Mutual UFO Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE SERIES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Investigator's Edge series of instructional and informative files, compiled primarily for the MUFON Field Investigator, originally started out as information from Dan Wright's newsletters to State Directors, but has since included exceptional information for a number of newsletters currently being published by various State and Assistant State Directors from all over the country. Each IEDGE*.TXT file is from a newsletter submitted to the MUFONET-BBS Network by the author, or from a MUFON Member who has experience/training in a certain specialized area of scientific or humanitarian endeavor. Each file in the series is pertinent, informative and educational and is to be used as a tool by the Field Investigator to assist him/her in her field work of investigating UFO and UFO-related cases. If you feel you can contribute a bit of informative information of use for the above purpose, please either upload the file to a MUFONET-BBS Network member board, or send via U.S. Snailmail to: John Komar Administrator - MUFONET-BBS Network State Director/Tennessee - MUFON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 1 in a MUTUAL UFO NETWORK (MUFON) Copyright continuing MUFON series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE 1989 ___________________________ Witness integrity is a critical area to be covered in the investigator's report, yet it is often the most difficult area to assess. Few of us have much formal education in psychology, and even that type of training might be insufficient in certain cases. Much has been said and written about hoaxed claims, which nearly always entail a dramatic close encounter story wherein the teller was the intended subject of the intruder. Other indicators to look for include: (a) precise details expressed with confidence regarding measurements, vehicle design and so forth, (b) if multiple witnesses, total agreement on all aspects of the original account, (c) instant answers to questions posed, (d) the conveyance of a message or indication of purpose by the alien intelligence, and (e) a desire for publicity by the reporting person. Some accounts are genuine despite these appearances, but they do serve as caution lights. Exaggeration and embellishment are not the same and both must be considered. The former overstates a descriptive element - proximity, size, brightness, velocity and the like - that would normally be perceived in an event of that type. If an object seen at dusk in a populated area is estimated to have been thousands of feet in the air yet a foot in diameter at arm's length, one would suspect an exaggerated apparent size. [Otherwise, police phone lines would have been jammed followed by headlines in the morning news.] Embellishment, by contrast, adds elements or details thereof that were not part of the actual observation. This might become evident when comparing original statements made immediately after the incident (to police, the investigator or someone else) with a later re-telling. For example, the object was lost from view below the tree-line and (the witness later deduces) landed. Perhaps a faint glow within the woods is added in the re-telling as well. Taking leave of the facts in either of these fashions might be quite unintentional on the part of a person who both wants to impress you, "the expert", in such matters. Thus, when questioned (s)he tends to fill in any gaps in what was truly heard and seen. Still, if repeated at various points of the account, the entire event may be called into question. A "true believer" is readily identifiable by a large crystal adorning his/her necklace, the flying saucer belt buckle, and the autographed copy of Shirley MacLaine over the mantle. Seriously, this type of individual tends to have just enough knowledge of the UFO subject to be half convincing on the surface. Certainly, randomness being a factor in the sighting annals, one of these "Children of the New Age" or just plain UFOnut may have had a real experience. However, as the sign reads on those windy mountain passes, proceed with extreme caution. If a bookcase is in view, a quick scan of its contents is always in order and may be very illuminating. In the recounting, these persons often tend to digress into a series of previous nocturnal light sightings (which sound suspiciously similar to airplanes, satellites and planets) and to offer firm opinions on the origins, purposes and/or lessons of alien visitation. For, at the heart of the true-believer mentality is a fervent desire to be in contact with mysterious forces - of the UFO variety or otherwise. By itself, this is harmless. But, being a prisoner of one's passions, IFOs are easily transformed into UFOs, and a genuine observation can trigger a delusion of meaningful communication. Lest we succumb to the temptation of seeing an abduction behind every bush, it bears reminding that there are still lots of gullible folks out there with active imaginations and a need to be part of the action. Attached is a "Survey of UFO/Metaphysical Interests," a list of questions which you and your members may find useful in sorting through matters of witness integrity. It is intended for use in those iffy cases, although the first five are suitable for general audiences. Also, investigators should be cautioned not to raise such questions until all other relevant information has been discussed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SURVEY OF UFO / METAPHYSICAL INTERESTS Date _____________________ Witness _________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________________ 1) What books have you read on the UFO subject? ____________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 2) Are you familiar with: Whitley Strieber? ____. Budd Hopkins? ____. Project Bluebook? ____. MJ-12? ____. 3) Have you found that tabloids (Enquirer, etc.) offer information on UFO incidents that you can't get elsewhere? ____. Do you have a favorite tabloid? ____. __________________________________________________________. 4) Where do UFO's come from? _______________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 5) Have you reached a conclusion as to why they are here? __________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 6) Are particular kinds of people selected for UFO encounters? _____________ ________________________________________________________________________. 7) Do you think psychic people have a better chance of seeing a UFO than others? ____. 8) Would an astrologer be able to predict the likelihood of a UFO encounter for a client? ____. 9) Do you feel you were destined to have an UFO experience? ____. Why? _____ _________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 10) How can UFO's go so fast? ______________________________________________. How can they just vanish into thin air? ________________________________. 11) Do you have an impression of what an alien looks like? __________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 12) Did you see the movie: "E.T." ____. "Coccoon" ____. "Starman" ____. "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" ____. Do you feel these portray what aliens are really like? _________________. 13) Do you suspect that aliens live their lives much like we do? ___________. 14) Is it fair to assume that alien visitors mean us no harm? ______________. Why do you feel that way? _______________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 15) If you could select a friend right now to be in the same circumstance, would you want him or her to experience what you did? ____. Why? _______ ________________________________________________________________________. 16) Have you ever tried a past-life regression? ____. What did you find out? _________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 17) Have you attended a "channeling" session? ____. Were you impressed? _____ ________________________________________________________________________. 18) Have you ever had an episode of being outside your body? ____. What hap- pened then? ______________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. 19) Is there a particular color that has a special meaning for you? ____. Why ________________________________________________________________________. 20) Have you ever had "Tarot" cards read for you? ____. Did they turn out to be accurate? ____________________________________________________________. 21) Has anyone ever done "automatic writing" for you? ____. What did you learn? __________________________________________________________________. 22) What happens after this life is over? ___________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________. MISC. _______________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________________ INVESTIGATOR ________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 2 in a MUTUAL UFO NETWORK (MUFON) Copyright continuing MUFON series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE 1990 ___________________________ In a recent case occurring in Florida (related below), two men standing along a road were distracted by the sudden, excited barking of numerous dogs. They then noticed bright aerial lights approaching and observed a large anomalous vehicle. On a windy night in March 1980, two women and their eight children watched as a 12 - 15 - foot object of undefined shape within a glowing aura approached and remained some 50 feet from their door, performing feats and color changes over a 2-hour period. At various points, each of three dogs was let outside, yet none appeared to notice the intruder. As noted by Allan Hendry "The UFO Handbook" (Doubleday, 1979), animals do not share the technological fantasies and anticipations of humans. Pets such as dogs and cats, moreover, possess more acute senses, most notably hearing, and can detect emanations which we cannot. [Whether an animal can detect microwaves, low-strength magnetic fields or minute static charges is not known.] Consequently, if an animal reacts during the reported observation, it is inferred that *something* was there to be sensed. The expectation that animal reactions are linked closely with UFOs is a preconception in the consciousness of the American public. To state the obvious, animals can't speak for themselves, so the interpretation of their actions is left to the human witness. Cats have been reported to arch their back, hair standing on end, at the sight of a strange airborne vehicle. Of course, the sight of a strange cat would have caused the same result. UFOs have long been linked to dogs howling, barking, or cowering. Dogs likewise howl at the moon and bark at just about anything, including the barking of other dogs. Some dogs cower whenever an adult looks at them. You should also keep in mind that pets are often closely attuned to - and influenced by - the moods of their masters. Thus, if a person is acting excitedly or fearfully at the perception of a UFO, the animals in his/her presence may well exhibit a strong response also. Hendry concludes this chapter of his excellent book with an observation: "Clearly, while animals have different motives for response to UFO and IFO stimuli than humans, the range is just as complex and baffling to sort out." We do seek to compile all the evidence available on animal reactions to genuine UFOs. When milk or egg production drops afterward, when an animal is injured or when its behavior is described as totally out of character, something physical seemingly caused it. Animal reactions will be included in our computerized records, sorting both by species and type of reaction. In Chapter VIII of the MUFON "Field Investigator's Manual", Ray Fowler reminds us that a Form 4 should be completed (and mention of the reaction included in the "Personal Account" section of the Form 1) for all anecdotal evidence. If the animal displays symptoms of residual radiation, a Form 10 should be completed and a radiological examination conducted as part of the treatment administered. Where physical evidence is apparent (e.g. an injury or significant loss of fur or feathers, the animal should be photographed and a Form 6 filled out.) A final point: The investigator should never ask a witness whether animals were present. This is a leading question and only encourages the witness to speculate on behavior that may not have been otherwise regarded as extraordinary. Reactions (or a lack of reaction) regarded as unusual at the time will in all likelihood be volunteered by the witness. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 3 in a Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) Copyright continuing MUFON series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE 1989 ___________________________ The witness has just concluded his account of a dramatic, prolonged close encounter with an object of unusual shape, including exterior trappings. You ask that he spend a few minutes in sketching the vehicle's design. After a bit, he produces a two-dimensional, asymmetrical scrawl and says sheepishly, "Never could draw." The woman has described two identical entities in her bedroom that she was permitted to inspect in a conscious awareness for long minutes. Asked to reduce to paper what they looked like, she prepares with some care a drawing that is nevertheless remindful of a 4-year-old's rendering of Daddy. Sound familiar? Conquering such a problem is really not at all mysterious, as every major police department long ago discovered: An artist is brought in to work with the witness to reconstruct the villain's appearance. For the limited purpose of devising an accurate rendering of a craft or entity, the facilitator need not be either a professional artist nor have formal MUFON membership (though the latter is certainly preferred). At least some several million people have a marked ability in this area and have taken some classes. Frankly, given the horrible drawings that so typically accompany case reports, anyone with an acumen for drawing would be appreciated and should be utilized. The reality in our business - and in the art world generally - is that vehicles and portraits involve fundamentally different skills. So, consider the idea of having two persons available to press into duty. In that CE-1s are far more commonly reported than CE-3s or CE-4s, a person with *mechanical drawing* skill will likely be valuable more often. For the occasional entity case, someone who has had an art class in human anatomy would be the wiser selection. Certainly, someone who has both types of abilities is ideal. A few considerations in utilizing an artist: First, of course, the person must realize that, in agreeing to offer this assistance, (s)he may be called upon with no forewarning - even raised from his/her bed on occasion. Second, the drawing is to be a faithful rendering of what the witness describes, i.e. without artistic license. [Certainly, questions of the witness along the way are both appropriate and necessary.] And third, when the drawing is completed to the client's satisfaction, it should be *signed and dated* by both the client and artist. Naturally, the investigator must clarify in the case report that the drawing was made with the assistance of the person named. For the sake of objectivity, the witness should be asked to attempt a drawing without assistance before the expert is brought to bear, and that drawing, no matter how crude, should accompany the report. It cannot be overemphasized that we as an organization fail to make critical ties among UFO events occurring at different times and locations because of a lack of adequate drawing skills at the ready. Every college and most high schools in America have at least one instructor and several students able to fill this critical need. Please make a concerted effort to find one or more to assist yourself - and encourage your members to locate additional volunteer artists in their own locales. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 4 in a MUTUAL UFO NETWORK (MUFON) Copyright continuing MUFON series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE 1989 ___________________________ Following a prolonged encounter with a glowing bell-shaped object on her property, a woman rather suddenly began having precognitive thoughts and dreams. Unfamiliar names popped into her mind, only to be used later in the day by family members. She proceeded to the phone seconds before it began ringing, knowing who was calling. In a vivid dream, someone she knew was dying in a house fire, a fact borne out by the next day's newspaper. Soon after a lengthy encounter on their farm with small triangular-based vehicles, a couple and their best friend (who also witnessed the event) gathered one evening and shared a sense of dread that, for whatever reason, they would not be getting together again. The next evening, the husband was killed in an auto accident. These two incidents are not taken from the Time-Life book series we've all seen advertised on TV, but rather are from my personal case files. Though we cannot begin to adequately explain such occurrences, in some extended close- encounters situations, one or more of the witnesses are left with some form of ESP. This aspect of UFO experiences has, unfortunately, been rather neglected by the investigative community and probably underreported. In that a long, involved UFO encounter is likely to take multiple interviews and weeks or months to sort out, an ESP/psychic awareness may manifest itself if the investigator has the foresight to look for evidence of same. After the basic facts of the aerial event have been gathered and one is satisfied that the claim is genuine, it is proper to ask (without mentioning anything specific) that the witness record any feelings or unusual experiences considered out of place. If something does present itself in the encounter's aftermath, the witness is likely to ask those questions so common to CE episodes generally: "Why me?" and "What does it mean?" If there is no indication that the paranormal recountings are delusive, the investigator must: (1) be honest in explaining our fundamental ignorance of the basis for these effects, (2) refrain from speculating on what might happen as a result, (3) assure the person that, it most recorded cases, any paranormal effects dissipate over time, and (4) for lack of precise knowledge as to why, try to counsel the person to accept it as an inadvertent gift left behind. Perhaps most importantly, ensure an open line of communication after the investigation is finished. Without any data to support the contention, witnesses with this sort of potential would appear ideally suited for repeat encounters at some future date. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 5 in a Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) Copyright continuing MUFON series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE 1989 ___________________________ Anyone who has hung around the subject for awhile is bound to hear those familiar words and phrases which ought to raise an eyebrow of doubt: "silent", "in an instant", "paralyzed", "glowing", "blinding" and (my personal favorite) "disappeared". Let's examine these usages that are indicative of how excited witnesses tell their stories on first recounting. - "Silent". Was the object in question genuinely without any sound? If the witness had been a few feet directly underneath it on a still night in the hinterland, would not even a decibel of sound have noted? In writing up the investigative summary, one must be very careful to distinguish between (what are probably rare) incidents wherein, considering all the physical factors, the vehicle was genuinely silent in terms of human audio perception, as compared to cases in which the witness, for whatever reason, was unable to detect the actual sound generated by metallic parts. Most often, sheer distance was the culprit. Elements in the environment - especially wind, both as it rustles vegetation and crosses the percipient's ears - can easily wipe out a low sound. Therefore, unless the circumstances make it obvious that an anomalous object was really silent, the correct assumption is that "the witness(es) did not perceive any sound in connection with the object." - "In an instant". How long is an instant, anyway? Presumably, it splits a second, but how far? A common meteor may be said to have passed beyond the witness' view in an instant, yet we can roughly gauge its actual speed. "In no time," the vehicle was out of sight - which might be said of an F-16 on a fly-over low to the ground. Obviously, though, some time was involved, and a measurement using a stopwatch can be taken. If the moment in question cannot be so depicted, it may be fairer to convey in the write-up that the object departed at a speed apparently beyond conventional abilities and/or with no sense of acceleration. - "Paralyzed (with fear)". Was the witness genuinely immobilized from an external force? Alternately, was (s)he *psychologically* "captivated", "mesmerized", or "transfixed" due to the unexpected nature of the event? This area of close-encounter research still evokes debate, largely because of imprecise questioning by the investigator of the witness' actual state of mind during the event. -"Glowing". As with Rudolph's nose, when we read this term we assume a light source that is internal to the object in question. If the twilight sun was reflecting off the object, the proper word is "glinting". If the term "glowing" is used, it forces the physicist and engineer to consider specific possibilities. Be careful with this one. - "Blinding". Gosh, was the witness unable to perceive his/her surroundings after the incident? As an example, humans cannot look at the midday sun for more than a second or so without spots before our eyes and tears forming. Furthermore, substantial physiological damage would be done to the cornea in a matter of several seconds. Thus, that serves as a benchmark. Precisely how long was the witness able to look directly at the source, and what were the aftereffects\/ Most often, "blinding" can be downgraded to "brilliant" or just "bright". - "Disappeared". Commonly coined, it is remarked, "Then, all of a sudden it just 'disappeared' (from view)". So, what precisely happened? Did the object molecularly dematerialize? Well, okay, we have plenty of cases through the years that suggest this - although one might argue a progression into the ultra-violet or infra-red spectrum of electromagnetism. More likely in a given instance, however, the witness intended simply to say that the object simply moved beyond the horizon or otherwise out of view. Proper investigating being a learned ability, with lots of pained discoveries along the way, it is understandable that these kinds of superlatives have gone unchallenged in previous cases. If we are to make sense of our data, though, extreme care must be taken before underscoring the witness statement on those tentative points. That's a major reason why detailed questioning must follow the initial witness account. And the investigator's summary must address these factors, clarifying the intended meaning with sober rationale. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mutual UFO Network - MUFONET-BBS Network ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Number 6 in a MUTUAL UFO NETWORK (MUFON) Copyright continuing MUFON series THE INVESTIGATOR'S EDGE 1990 ___________________________ On a balmy, starlit night in 1986, two men were engaged in fishing and conversation in the midst of a northern Michigan lake. Suddenly, one called the other's attention to a brilliant light approaching from the north. For nearly two minutes, they were captivated by the source passing high overhead on a straight-line course. Appearing basically white at first, the "sparkling" object took on an amber tone before it passed from view on the southern horizon. Moments later and a hundred miles to the south, several adults and teens witnessed the anomaly while lazing outside their cottage. They observed orange-ish tones and noticed two or three smaller lights "eject" from the main body, thereafter travelling in tight formation with the sparkling "mothership". As the objects passed to the west of Detroit and into Ohio, still heading south, radio and TV stations were besieged with calls. Some described the objects as no more than a thousand feet overhead. Those in more remote, quiet locales attached a slight hissing sound to what were now six or more small glowing objects in irregular formation. On and on went the intruders, observed by thousands over Kentucky and Tennessee. Less than an hour after the initial sighting, a call was placed to NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command), located on Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado. Without hesitation, the officer related the details of a Soviet Soyuz rocket booster reentering the atmosphere over American airspace. Several points bear mention concerning reentries. First, at any given time, NORAD's height-finder radar is tracking several _thousand_ objects that are in static or slowly decaying orbits around the earth. These range from intact satellites to pieces of debris as small as a softball. Excepting those retrieved via space shuttle, with increasing frequency each will fall through the atmosphere. Second, our planet collides with common meteors by the ton on a daily basis as well as in the form of annual meteor showers. [The latter are ice trails of ancient comets and range in size from a grain of sand to small stone.] Comparatively, then, even a softball-sized hunk of metal from an earlier exploded launch vehicle can create quite a stir as it slowly disintegrates through the atmosphere. Third, its burn is far longer than a typical shooting star also because the angle of descent is not steep. On a clear night the sighting duration is commonly about two minutes from horizon to horizon (_usually_ east-to-west, though S-N and N-S also occur). Fourth, this display evokes a variety of colors, depending on the composition of the metal and especially the altitude (thus internal heat generated) at the point it is observed. Initially, observers generally see a whit light, followed by amber/orange, and possibly other hues. Fifth, very typically in a reentry, witnesses describe a holiday "sparkler" (actually disintegration) effect, changing coloration (due to the slowing speed and increasing atmospheric density) and, quite often, a fragmenting of the main body (thus reports of a "mothership" ejecting smaller "crafts"). Sixth, reentries are nearly always seen over wide expanses, often encompassing a few or several states. Seventh, the witnesses tend to grossly underestimate the object's altitude (total disintegration usually occurs above 15,000 feet) and overestimate its actual size. Eighth, the anomaly is (logically) always said to be traveling in a straight and horizontal path overhead. Even when fragments are observed splitting from the main body, they continue along the same course (i.e. without an abrupt directional change). Whenever these characteristics are present, it is proper (and usually worthwhile) to contact Peterson AFB, asking for the public affairs office. That person will contact the NORAD facility. Being a bureaucrat myself and so suspicious about government agencies, I present the inquiry simply: "We had an event this evening in (named state(s)). Did NORAD record a reentry?" That is, the time, directional course and duration should not be offered; let them do the corroborating. If in reality the nocturnal light was a reentry, you will probably be given much detail (the particular space launch and date, moment the debris first entered the atmosphere, duration of the burn, and area where it was presumed to flame out). There are two types of events for which you will _not_ likely receive a helpful reply. One would entail secret military testing in space (e.g. SDI target practice). The other would be a genuine UFO event. Either claimed ignorance or a "can neither confirm nor deny" response is likely in those situations. Since it could be either, however, reticence to answer your questions does not necessarily imply an anomaly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ << cont >> Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:14403 alt.conspiracy:24124 sci.skeptic:40685 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Mass Abduction event - HUFON article Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 01:55:07 GMT Message-ID: <1993Mar15.015507.8783@bilver.uucp> Lines: 251 AREA:UFO Sun 7 Mar 93 12:48 By: Vince Johnson To: All Re: Houston Mass Abduction --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following file is courtesy of HUFON Report, the newsletter of the Houston UFO Network. For more information call (713) 850-1352. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Mass Abduction Event of December 8, 1992 by Dale Musser Note: In the following report, the term "alien(s)" is used generically to denote the abducting entities, and does not presuppose an extraterrestrial origin. In late summer of 1992, Derrel Sims, chief abductions investigator for HUFON (Houston UFO Network) implemented a plan to establish communications with alien abductors. This was to be accomplished by means of hypnotic suggestions implanted in the subconscious minds of several subjects with multiple abduction histories. The intent being, if any of these subjects were abducted again, the hypnotic suggestions would allow the individuals to gather data and/or establish more positive contact with the aliens. In November of 1992, subject DS92007PH was abducted. The subject maintained conscious memory for a fair amount of time into the abduction before the aliens were able to "zap" the subject (place the subject in a mental state where they no longer have conscious memories of the event). At the beginning of the abduction, the subject was able to communicate with the aliens, although they did not appear to be terribly inclined to communicate or reveal much information. As the aliens were completing their preparations for their examination, the subject felt herself losing mental control. The aliens began to reinforce their efforts to "zap" her. In one last effort to maintain consciousness and communication as long as possible she blurted out "We know what your doing... we know about..." (subject still under investigation). This statement seemed to evoke a reaction on the part of the aliens and appears to have predicated the events that follow. Starting December 8, 1992, just prior to the HUFON meeting "Alien Abductions: Working with Abductees," several of the subjects on the panel were reabducted. These abductions were not realized at the time, but over the next few days, many of the abductees began suffering PAS (Post Abduction Syndrome). At this time the abductees were not in communication with each other. Subject DS92002DM reported that he had experienced a dream or possible flashback of an earlier abduction When he began having PAS and other physical manifestations that accompanied his earlier abductions, it became obvious to him that an abduction had taken place. Subjects DM92003JA, DS92034LC & DS92017RP also reported dreams with possible abduction signs. In addition a number of the abductees reported having nose bleeds and/or sinus pains. On Thursday, December 10th, at the monthly HUFON meeting, a number of the abductees were questioned by the audience about their experiences. Although most of the abductees were very uncomfortable and felt that they "...shouldn't be talking about (their) abductions," the meeting went quite well. On Friday morning, December 11, many of the abductees (most of whom were on the panel the night before), awoke to find they had nose bleeds during the night. Almost all had sinus pains and within a day or two almost all had head colds and flu like symptoms. Subject DS92009LT awoke on the 11th with an irritation in one eye. While rubbing her eye, a small object (about the size of a mustard seed) came out of her eye. The subject called Derrel Sims and turned the object over to him. This object has been photographed and is currently undergoing analysis. The object appears to be made out of a flesh-colored plastic. It is somewhat egg-shaped (with the narrow end open) and is hollow inside. On the same day, subject DS92002DM awoke to discover he had a nose bleed (the first in over 20 years). He also called Derrel Sims to make immediate arrangements for a hypnosis session. On Sunday, December 20, 1992, DS92002DM was regressed hypnotically to his latest encounter with aliens. The event occurred the night of December 10, the night of the HUFON meeting. Some time after the subject went to sleep for the night, he was awakened by aliens in his bedroom who, in a very quick procedure, removed a nasal implant from the subject and immediately left (later under hypnosis a number of other abductees reported similar events). Mr. Sims then regressed the subject to the next earliest abduction (December 8). On December 8, subject DS92002DM awoke and observed a bright flash of light (there was no sound of thunder following). The subject rolled over and noticed a small gray alien "wearing a harness/utility belt." The subject was instructed to follow the alien outside, where a blue/white light was shining on a spot on the ground. The subject was instructed to stand in the light, and an instant later, found himself in a large circular room (about the size of a high school gymnasium). The subject was instructed to disrobe and led out of the room and through a series of corridors and passageways. Part of the time they walked but mostly they were transported by a means unknown by the subject (floated or on a conveyor). Eventually, they arrived at a small room where several other aliens were present. A quick physical examination was given and then a human- appearing individual entered the room (the subject in prior abductions had never encountered a human). The human asked several questions as to how/why the abductee knew he had been abducted before. The subject was also asked how abductees knew/found out about other abductees and why were they meeting together. A model of the human brain was shown to the subject and he was asked to indicate where the "subconscious mind was located." When the subject was unable to indicate a location, he received a mental image of another abductee (DS92007PH) in a state of suspended animation and had the impression she was being asked the same questions. The human then left the room and the subject was moved to another room. This room appeared to be some type of meeting or conference room. It also was round, but the lighting and the furnishings were quite different. A number of different alien life forms entered the room, the last being the one with human appearance. The small grey aliens left the room but two of the taller brown aliens stayed. (The description of the other life forms is being withheld pending further investigation). The subject was again questioned as to the nature of the subconscious mind and to his knowledge of his abductions and other abductees. After each question the subject received images of other abductees. He could see them in a room together. They were all nude and seemed to be unaware of the presence of each other. Each seemed to be in a halucinative state and behaved as if acting out a part. He sensed that the other abductees were being "accessed" by the aliens by some means and were being asked many of the same questions as himself. The subject also sensed DS92007PH, who was in a different location from himself and from the other abductees. He could "feel" the aliens trying to "access" her mind to retrieve information. A debate seemed to be taking place among the aliens as to whether the "experiment/project" should be allowed to continue or if it had been compromised by the recent events (abductees knowing of their abductions and meeting together). Accusations were made about "improper procedures being followed by the "Grays" and "Browns." At one point, when DS92002DM "sensed/saw" the other abductees as they were being accessed by the aliens, he had the thought that the other abductees "don't know there are others there." This thought caught the attention of the human who seemed surprised that the subject was picking up on their activities. Immediately, two "Grays" entered the room and took hold of the subject's hands and he was unable to "pick up anything further of the alien thoughts or questioning." At this point another of Derrel Sims' hypnotic suggestions activated itself with the subject with interesting results which we are unable to report at this time as further investigation and experimentation are continuing. One of the more interesting aspects of this case, and one which is being looked into further, pertains to a question asked of subject DS92002DM by the aliens. At one point he was asked what he knew about a government project called "Project Prometheus." Although the subject had no knowledge of such a project, we are researching the matter. As the meeting seemed to be ending, the human asked the subject what he "would like to do," to which the subject responded that he would like to go with them (a suggestion even he finds bizarre). The subject was told that this was "impossible" as he was "contaminated" (the subject did not feel this implied physically). The human then took him into a side room where he was shown a "strange sort of chart or diagram" which he did not understand and was unlike any he'd ever seen before. He then was led by the two "Browns" through several other rooms to another examination room/laboratory where a nasal implant was placed in his nostril (the one later removed). The subject was then given his pajamas, told to dress, and returned to his home and bed. Subjects DS92009LT and DM92003JA were also hypnotized and reported being abducted on December 8, and being in a room with others. Subject DS92034LC had conscious memories of being in the room on that night. All three of these subjects have independently described the room, its appearance, and individuals in the room. All of the subjects' descriptions are similar and details of the room match--including several unique aspects unheard of in other cases. It is interesting to note that all of the abductees in the "group room experiences" perceived events differently although parallel. One believed she had died and was with her dead brother (who had strange eyes). One thought she was with God whose face she couldn't see because of a fog that only allowed her to see his shape. All of the individuals reported themselves and others in the room as being nude. One abductee who felt hungry was told they would be fed was handed silverware as though they were about to be served food. When she was told to look at the silverware under hypnosis, it was not silverware at all but some strange objects she could not identify. Each of the abductees in the "group room experience" seemed to be in a drugged or hallucinative state. This condition seemed to alleviate when they were taken to another room for examinations and nasal and ocular implants. Other abductees also have reported supporting events and experiences. The total number of abductees involved in the event is not known for sure. Great care was taken in the early stages of the investigation to ensure that subjects were unaware of the others' events. It was only after hypnosis, with similar descriptions of events and locations by five different individuals (each unaware of any other abductee reporting anything) that information concerning the event was released. Numerous descriptions and minute details have been deliberately left out of this report, as investigations are still ongoing. The significance of this event cannot be overlooked. It would appear that the implants were deliberately placed in the abductees before the HUFON meeting and removed the day after. Whether the aliens knew about the meeting or had simply implanted the abductees with the intent of monitoring a gathering of abductees is unknown. However, for the first time within the history of the abduction phenomenon, the abductees seem to have captured the attention of the abductors. Although we do not know the outcome of these events we hope that it may lead to a breakthrough in communication, improvement in relationship with the aliens, and an end to abductions and experimentation on unwilling subjects. For more information on HUFON abduction research, contact Derrel Sims at (713) 353-1550, or Patrice Eldrige at (713) 353-3980. End of File --- * Origin: ParaNet - Leading UFO Research Network 303-429-2713 DATA (1:104/ 422.0) -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN